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Bogarts posted:As far as I can tell taunt only works if the target can hit the taunter. I ran half my front line as tanks (60-70 m.def with shield) and it worked fairly well against chosen and orc warriors. Fatigue was a major issue so the tanks barely attacked. A three head flail was decent on them to keep enemies from just walking away because their melee attack sucked. Ok, interesting, thanks. And yeah, I'm trying to update my guide for all the new weapons and revised builds and new monsters and one thing that's really clear is that it's a really good idea to have the center of your front line be *dedicated* tanks with shield mastery, indomitable, etc. Right now I'm thinking roughly 4 or so dedicated shield tanks (maybe with maces and axes) 4 or so "utility" tanks with nets, whips, etc. (maybe with spears or cleavers) 2 greatsword 2 great hammer (as above) 2 or 3 archers 2 sergeants remainder niche builds (overwhelm warscythe lancers, fencing sword duellists, etc.)
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May 23, 2019 20:31
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If you have throwing specialist they can hold a net and still get the duelist bonus so they can bring some utility without giving up any offensive power.
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May 23, 2019 20:46
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Bogarts posted:If you have throwing specialist they can hold a net and still get the duelist bonus so they can bring some utility without giving up any offensive power. Yeah, the problem is figuring out where the duelists "fit" into the overall lineup. Like, where do they stand. I might end up making cleaver duelists with quick hands and B&B, have them sit in the back line and use whips, then switch to cleavers if in direct melee.
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May 23, 2019 20:56
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Broken Cog posted:Just wanted to point out that a whip bro or two can make taking on ancient dead early on a lot easier, since you can just snag the lance from dangerous lance legionaries. And you can do it from the back row. Speaking of ancient dead, I learnt a trick just recently that makes fights vs them much more manageable, at least on open ground without any allies. The basic idea is to just move your whole battleline one step back. Their ai is pretty simple, they seem to try to move within 3 squares of your bros, followed by moving into contact. If you move one step back after their intial move they will use 6 ap to move on their second turn, leaving them not enough ap to form that annoying shieldwall. Basically, turn one you wait->let them move->back up, then on turn 2 you wait->let them move->attack. This gives you 1 to 2 full turns, depending on initiative, to wail on their frontline without any shieldwalls. This usually means a couple of dead skeletons and a much less frustrating fight afterwards. The main problem is that pikes will still mess you up if they hit but whips helps with that.
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May 23, 2019 21:03
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there's a named long axe out there with an additional 10-15% chance to hit the head in addition to the base chance. it's positively obscene on a second row juggler. moreso when you combine it with quickhands and headhunter, the crossbow shot into a axe-swing is just murder. absolute murder.
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May 23, 2019 22:19
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I just lost a outer town in my game to the undead event, went over to take a look.... 43 anicent legion, honor guard, fallen heroes with a necro thrown in. Nah, it's cool, that town sucked anyway.
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May 23, 2019 22:47
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Jesus, that was a lot of waves of the dead. Necrosavants and fodder Auxulliaries, swarm of Legionaires, swarm of Nachtzeherers, necromancer and geist weiderganger party, and then at the end of it 12 Honor Guards. I can't believe none of my men are dead.
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May 23, 2019 22:49
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Some day I will make it far enough to witness these crazy end game events. In the meantime I will continue getting over confident and biting off more than I can chew as soon as my company gets rolling.
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May 23, 2019 23:01
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So I went back and tried that undead city out of curiosity: I was able to get them down to like 15-20 but in 3 tries that was around the best. They would slowly break up my formations because I couldn't stop the flanking with that many. The necromancer can revive the anicent troops too, which was really the worst part. Those spears just slowly whittled my guys down, any time I got an opening a weider would jump in and slow me back down. Then all the fallen heroes came in while the necro possessed them, didn't go well. I'm curious if turtling in the corner might make a difference but honestly the battle is so god drat long I'm not sure I want to bother again. Mazz fucked around with this message at 01:08 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 01:00
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So what's the new strategy for the new alps?
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May 24, 2019 02:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So what's the new strategy for the new alps? Don't fight them, same as old alps.
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May 24, 2019 02:52
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Night10194 posted:Don't fight them, same as old alps. If you have to fight them, turtle first and them release the hounds.
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May 24, 2019 03:02
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I think the Deserter start has broken me. Halved starting funds, the middle noble house starts out hostile, and not only are your starting bros Deserters, one of them is also set up to be an archer so he's almost guaranteed to not make the cut in the long run. I just quit the game in disgust when one of my melee Deserters got scared of a Thug and his dog and tried to run. But I guess there's a challenge if anyone's looking for one. Halved starting funds are really lovely, though.
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May 24, 2019 03:18
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So what's the new strategy for the new alps? You have to scatter fast to spread out the black poo poo and hope you can get some of them before they stack all that poo poo on top of you. If you can it will often only be like 1-2 targets per circle and you can berserk them down and keep moving. If there is more than like 8-9 you’re just hosed really because you’ll get swamped and that stupid yell gets half of your guys. EDIT: Also try to have dogs on everyone, it will help immensely. That's actually just good advice all the time I find, when you need dogs you need all the dogs you can get. Or yeah just run away. Mazz fucked around with this message at 04:55 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 03:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So what's the new strategy for the new alps? +1 to avoid fighting them if at all possible. It's a grindy slog that punishes you hard for not being geared towards fighting Alps (the rarest non-boss enemy in the game?), and the best reward you can expect is a few undesirable crafting materials. If you hate yourself though, the fight is basically a test of whether or not you can spam and land enough melee attacks to wipe out 2x Nightmares per Alp every turn for several turns in a row. 1. Nightmares auto-hit and ignore armor, so shields and armor are actually pointless and drain your precious fatigue. Strip everyone naked. 2. Nightmares are moderately hard to hit but have no health. Give everyone spears, swords, or AOE melee weapons. 3. Archers are useless since Alps only appear at night and spawn Nightmares on top of you every turn. 4. The difficulty of the fight is inverse to the number of dogs you bring. 5. Nightmare damage is actually reduced by the Resolve stat, so if you have been pumping points into that for several levels instead of more useful stats, this is your fight. 6. If you realize what a mistake you've made in agreeing to this fight 25 minutes into it, hit Retreat at any time and the Alps will immediately stop spawning Nightmares and let you escape.
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May 24, 2019 05:00
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Wizard Styles posted:If I'm really desperate I might hire a Sellsword and probably regret it instantly. I recently hired my last sellsword. After leveling up a bit the rear end in a top hat wanted a dumb amount of gold per day, nearly three times more than my other bros, or he's leaving for another company cause they pay more. I refused to pay since he was average at best and he left. gently caress sellswords tbh
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May 24, 2019 06:42
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I'm now into the post-lategame with my militia company and it's quite interesting to see and compare the difference with a regular company. I probably only have half a dozen bros, at most, who I would be really happy with in an endgame company without a militia start. That is, two-handers with 80+ matk and 25+ mdef, archers with 90ish ratk, sergeants with 100+ resolve, tanks with over 50 mdef, etc. These are mostly guys who got really lucky with their stars, like a polearm bro with three stars in matk who reached 90 by level 11. My best two-hander is a militiaman from the starting company, who had good starting stats and stars in both matk and mdef. But even my best bros, I find, are usually still a little worse than I would expect in a usual endgame. Like they may have the combat skills but lack the fatigue I would want for the best use of heavy armour, that kind of thing. And besides those top 6 or so bros my company is filled with a lot of guys between levels 5-10 who are frankly not good enough for an endgame company. Even bros with stars in good skills will get bad rolls in other ones and end up subpar. 70 matk at level 10, that kind of thing. It's clear that brawlers and militiamen, with only a few exceptions, can't really compete with the squires and wildmen and adventurous nobles that would ordinarily fill out my company. Your company also levels noticeably slower because experience is spread over 16 bros per fight instead of 12, and you have 25 bros to rotate through and level up instead of 18. Which means it also takes longer before you can tell if a bro's RNG rolls on leveling make him viable or not, and if you decide to dismiss anyone who doesn't make the cut then they demand more in compensation because they've been with you longer. The end result for me at least is just treating more people as expendable shields around the valuable bros, instead of getting hung up trying to hire and fire them until I have a perfect company. And yet, the endgame is still doable and I'm still having fun, because having the extra four bros in combat balances it really well. Those underpowered bros aren't as big a liability as they would be in a usual endgame because they can be supported by more polearm users, or they're less likely to be surrounded by a huge mob of enemies coming around the flanks, or I have another bro nearby who can rotate in to save them when they take a bad hit. And even though overall my hit percentage is probably lower, that's balanced out by putting out 8-ish more attacks every turn. I also have a bad habit of getting too attached to my guys, and in this run that's much less the case because maybe half my company are completely replaceable mid-level average-strength goons, who mostly exist to hold the line or stab people with pikes while my good bros clean up the flanks and swing around to collapse the enemy line from the side. Once I'm done this run it'll be difficult to go back to only 12 bros on the field, honestly. But on the whole after over 100 in-game days I think this setup is really well balanced, so well done by the devs.
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May 24, 2019 06:57
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vyelkin posted:
also I'm pretty sure 18 would in fact have been a little too powerful so dialing it back to 16 was probably correct
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May 24, 2019 07:12
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How do you feel about throwing weapons after the DLC? All the builds I see from people are either archer or sluggers, with the occasional attempt to make a duelling sword useful. With the new weapons, and specially fielding more but worse brothers in a Peasant Militia, I feel that trowing stuff is a better choice than it was at launch.
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May 24, 2019 07:54
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Fat Samurai posted:How do you feel about throwing weapons after the DLC? All the builds I see from people are either archer or sluggers, with the occasional attempt to make a duelling sword useful. With the new weapons, and specially fielding more but worse brothers in a Peasant Militia, I feel that trowing stuff is a better choice than it was at launch. I finally got barbarians to drop two sets of heavy throwing axes so I'm building a thrower bro right now in my militia after I hired a houndmaster with crap stats but good ranged stars. He's still low level but I'll try and remember to report back if he pays off once I hit like level 9 and get duelist.
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May 24, 2019 11:14
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vyelkin posted:I finally got barbarians to drop two sets of heavy throwing axes so I'm building a thrower bro right now in my militia after I hired a houndmaster with crap stats but good ranged stars. He's still low level but I'll try and remember to report back if he pays off once I hit like level 9 and get duelist. Is the idea with throwers to make them switch to melee, like most throwing enemies do? Seems tough to level both ranged and melee attack, while if the bro is purely a ranged fighter, you would run out of ammo quickly and surely a bow is just better - can outrange enemies, shoot at far-off necromancers etc Is nimble considered a good bet for archers etc? I generally just have mine in mid-weight mail and sallets by the endgame, they don’t get hit very often.
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May 24, 2019 11:39
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Genghis Cohen posted:Is the idea with throwers to make them switch to melee, like most throwing enemies do? Seems tough to level both ranged and melee attack, while if the bro is purely a ranged fighter, you would run out of ammo quickly and surely a bow is just better - can outrange enemies, shoot at far-off necromancers etc I give archers nimble so they don't die if they take an unlucky hit or two, and because sometimes an orc warrior just charges through your lines right at them and some extra survivability is nice. Also because that lets them stay in light armour, which lets them keep initiative high for overwhelm. The plan is to give my throwing guy bags and belts and quick hands and have like 20ish throwables for each fight. He'll burn through ammunition really quick but maybe it will be worth it. I don't tend to build bros for both melee and ranged because it's too big an investment in skill points.
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May 24, 2019 11:45
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I found a unique set of throwing axes that have a +5% chance to hit in addition to doing more damage so I made a thrower. He's been pretty solid so far and when he runs out he just pulls out a sword and gets ready to rotate in for whoever is getting hurt. It's actually really useful. Saved a lot of brothers who would have otherwise died.
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May 24, 2019 11:54
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My only concern with getting a good thrower is throwing weapons eat up 3 ammo each. If that guy is tossing 15-20 axes regularly that’s 60 ammo before archers, you’ll feel that on those long trips away from towns. But I still think I’m going to make a militia game and try out a bunch of weird builds too, including a throwing guy. It’ll be a nice change from lone wolf. For tanks, do you guys always put your solid melee defense guys as 2h? I was sticking them with shields because they have like 60-70 mdef with heaters that way, I have a couple line guys who just straight up never get hurt like this but it might be overkill. Also I found a named warscythe and this might be the greatest thing ever. Oh and I might make a mod to raise perk points to 15 before the militia game, I got a lot of guys to ~14 in this lone wolf game and honestly I’m finding it pretty good. It doesn’t feel OP because it’s usually just allowing me to grab a second weapon mastery, get pathfinder on everyone, or a couple utility perks I wouldn’t otherwise take, like the resolve buff. I’ll post a link to it if I make it for anyone interested Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:26 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 13:12
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If I were to make a party specialized mostly in killing barbarians, what would a good focus for early-midgame be? (Day 30+) I'm guessing pathfinder, try to have at least 3 archers, a whip bro for all those unarmored thralls, and a rock solid frontline with Heather shields? Edit: Actually, Nimble might be especially good for barbarians, since a lot of their weapons have high armor piercing? Edit2: Maybe get 2 dagger bros ready for when the enemy groups are mostly Reavers and Chosen? Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 13:58
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Mazz posted:My only concern with getting a good thrower is throwing weapons eat up 3 ammo each. If that guy is tossing 15-20 axes regularly that’s 60 ammo before archers, you’ll feel that on those long trips away from towns. But I still think I’m going to make a militia game and try out a bunch of weird builds too, including a throwing guy. It’ll be a nice change from lone wolf. Yeah this is how I feel about throwing too. I don't see much point in it given the ammo costs. I'm willing to be proven wrong though, could just be a matter of not finding the right build. quote:For tanks, do you guys always put your solid melee defense guys as 2h? I was sticking them with shields because they have like 60-70 mdef with heaters that way, I have a couple line guys who just straight up never get hurt like this but it might be overkill. Good Mdef AND good fatigue AND good (80+) Matk -- 2hander Good Mdef AND good fatigue but NOT good Matk -- shieldbro Is my general calculus. I also usually just use kite shields but that' mostly because I fear Man With Crossbow. Theoretically though I might turn some of those potential 2hander bros into cleaver duelists now given the whip. Have 'em sit backline with whip, move forward with CLEAVE once the lines meet.
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May 24, 2019 14:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah this is how I feel about throwing too. I don't see much point in it given the ammo costs. I'm willing to be proven wrong though, could just be a matter of not finding the right build. The real issue with Man With Crossbow isn't even the 'oh lol I wounded one of your men' factor, but rather that when they sense weakness they will focus fire on one guy, which can quickly become less annoying and more actually dangerous.
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May 24, 2019 14:12
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One use for throwing weapons is to keep some throwing axes around for your archers for when you're fighting Ancient Dead, because I'm pretty sure those do full damage to skeletons. Also, check out the Heavy Throwing Javelins you can get from barbarian reavers and chosen, they have pretty ridiculous armor penetration.
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May 24, 2019 14:12
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Broken Cog posted:If I were to make a party specialized mostly in killing barbarians, what would a good focus for early-midgame be? (Day 30+) Thralls you can really murder with whatever, they lack any type of real armor so any decent bro should take them out pretty reliably. Reavers are comparable to raiders they just hit a harder; focus on the axehammer guys if you can because 2 landed swings is rough. The maces are annoying but manageable because of the one swing, once you have decent defensive guys they tank those while your polearms kill them back reliably. Chosen I really don’t have a great answer for myself. If it’s just 4-5 you focus them, but if it’s 15 you inevitably take so much damage from those 2 handers and shields don’t help much because they break them regularly. They also use rotation and adrenaline really well. Walking away from a camp battle with 4 good brothers dead is not really okay to me, so I’m struggling to find the right answer here. I’m thinking nimble might be a good idea, but they have a bunch of 2 handed cleavers in chosen groups too. Im leaning to just a lot of hammers and axes; you really need to cut down their numbers ASAP, so you have to be deleting armor en masse. Dagger bros could work too but I worry about the fatigue. EDIT: Oh I didn’t see you said early-mid, yeah that build sounds okay. Chosen that early just scare the poo poo out of me. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:22 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 14:14
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Broken Cog posted:One use for throwing weapons is to keep some throwing axes around for your archers for when you're fighting Ancient Dead, because I'm pretty sure those do full damage to skeletons. I kind of feel the Barbarians are the melee equivalent of Man With Crossbow. Man With Two Handed Mace is equally lethal. Sure, you can mitigate his to-hit a lot more and a lot more easily, since you want MDef more generally on everyone in your battle line, but if he gets that hit off I've had guys with Colossus get one-shotted by a headshot if they don't have steel brow.
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May 24, 2019 14:22
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Since the basic AI targets the bro with the lowest missile def in range, Man With Crossbow tends to focus fire much more than I'd like.
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May 24, 2019 15:25
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golden bubble posted:Since the basic AI targets the bro with the lowest missile def in range, Man With Crossbow tends to focus fire much more than I'd like. I find they'll also ignore a lower RDef guy to shoot my archers in the head if I leave one uncovered for a second. They'll survive the bolt, but drat if it doesn't always seem to hit them in the eye.
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May 24, 2019 15:35
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I got a pretty solid northern raiders seed the other day: NFBVGNUXNH 1st bro has fearless and tough 2nd bro has brave 3rd bro has optimist Southern faction is really big and goes right into the centre of the map, the "middle" faction is tiny and rammed into the northwest corner. Might still be hard to get archer recruits, I haven't got that far yet.
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May 24, 2019 17:18
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Following a tavern rumour for a named weapon. Okay, bunch of zombies in a swamp, with three geists and a necro. Pretty tedious fight, but not too tough. I bet the reward's gonna be poo poo tho---  Ok, that'll do, game. That'll do.
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May 24, 2019 18:30
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Whipping ghosts and monsters to death is the applied science of the Belmont family and I am glad BB is realistic enough to make it work perfectly.
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May 24, 2019 18:53
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So after giving up on my Deserter run I went back to the Band of Poachers giving Gridlocked's goldmine seed a try. gently caress me that map is so good. And great for the Band of Poachers start specifically as well: the starting Hunter has Iron Lungs, Optimist and very good stats including 59 initial Ranged Skill. One of the two starting Poachers is Quick and has Eagle Eyes. And the house that doesn't like you at the start is pretty big but not the one you need to trade with.
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May 25, 2019 00:50
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Can you even hide from the AI in bushes? They seem to be able to attack you from a distance away anyway.
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May 25, 2019 01:10
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Night10194 posted:Whipping ghosts and monsters to death is the applied science of the Belmont family and I am glad BB is realistic enough to make it work perfectly. Having a dedicated Belmont in the line really, really helps with geists, as the whip still uses melee attack forumlas and thus has a greater than 5% chance to hit from a good distance away. It's superb for taking out a geist hiding behind a solid mass of zombies. Honestly, I find my cleaver bro using his whip more than his cleaver anyway. Stacking tons of bleed damage is hilarious for Unholds, naked orc young, just about everything. And if that doesn't work then just disarm the most dangerous enemy on the field and laugh as an orc berserker just punches at you rather than cleaving your best bro in twain on his first attack. On the other hand, whips are hilariously useless against anything with even the slightest bit of armor. I've seen caravan hands with simple linen tunics shrug off whip blows to the body unperturbed. It's a land of extremes, but it works out really well. Just have to make sure you've got someone (or several someones) on hand to break armor for them, which you frankly should have on hand anyway.
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May 25, 2019 03:43
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Does the training hall bonus get used while a bro is in reserve?
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May 25, 2019 07:03
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IthilionTheBrave posted:
One thing I'm going to try very soon is a khopesh / whip cleaver quick hands build.
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May 25, 2019 07:04
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