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Warthur
May 2, 2004



Mors Rattus posted:

I mean, total fairness: dude lives right next to Chechnya, which may play a role in why he was loving terrified of being murdered.

This is all the fairness I will extend him.
I mean, he lives in Tbilisi, which is most of the way across Georgia from Chechnya (and Chechnya doesn't actually have an actual border crossing with Georgia to begin with, and isn't going to gently caress around on an international basis because that's left to big daddy Putin). Even were a hit squad from Chechnya to be sent to Georgia, they've got bigger fish to fry in the region.

He's only "right next to" Chechnya in this weird way that Yankerdoodles don't perceive distance until it's on the scale of one of your States, when your States are actually comfortably bigger than a lot of countries.

EDIT: To clarify my point: his crying about fearing for his life was a transparent ploy to seek sympathy, just as I am sure that "I live in Georgia" was his claim to be qualified to write the Chechnya section in the book, despite the fact that this is like saying you're qualified to write about life in Edinburgh because you live in Scotland.

Warthur fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 24, 2019

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TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018

Loxbourne posted:

I have a sudden urge to give Patrick large sums of money. Who's with me?

You can just buy the book.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
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Warthur posted:

I mean, he lives in Tbilisi, which is most of the way across Georgia from Chechnya (and Chechnya doesn't actually have an actual border crossing with Georgia to begin with, and isn't going to gently caress around on an international basis because that's left to big daddy Putin). Even were a hit squad from Chechnya to be sent to Georgia, they've got bigger fish to fry in the region.

He's only "right next to" Chechnya in this weird way that Yankerdoodles don't perceive distance until it's on the scale of one of your States, when your States are actually comfortably bigger than a lot of countries.

EDIT: To clarify my point: his crying about fearing for his life was a transparent ploy to seek sympathy, just as I am sure that "I live in Georgia" was his claim to be qualified to write the Chechnya section in the book, despite the fact that this is like saying you're qualified to write about life in Edinburgh because you live in Scotland.

it is definitely true that I am incapable of considering 'half the size of New York' a large distance.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:
I am literally going to drive the distance you're describing as "vast" this afternoon to drop a friend off.

Warthur
May 2, 2004



Kurieg posted:

I am literally going to drive the distance you're describing as "vast" this afternoon to drop a friend off.

It's like the old saying: to Americans, 100 years is a long time, to Europeans 100 miles is a long way.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013
I just stopped in at a gaming shop in a town of 10,000 people, and they had a shelf full of 3.5 books (multiple copies each) marked at $20-$30.

Who do they think is ever going to buy those???

Warthur
May 2, 2004



Roadie posted:

I just stopped in at a gaming shop in a town of 10,000 people, and they had a shelf full of 3.5 books (multiple copies each) marked at $20-$30.

Who do they think is ever going to buy those???
It's almost like sunk cost fallacy is a prerequisite for running a game shop.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
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At those prices? I have no idea, that's bargain bin filler, no more than 5 bucks, tops.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul

Roadie posted:

I just stopped in at a gaming shop in a town of 10,000 people, and they had a shelf full of 3.5 books (multiple copies each) marked at $20-$30.

Who do they think is ever going to buy those???

You never know in a little town. All it takes is one DM who runs a lot of games and insists 3.5 is God's chosen RPG and suddenly his players are a little isolated pocket of demand. What would be more telling is how long they've all sat there. Were they used?

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
I think it's valid for M*RH to believe his life or livelihood could be endangered because he- sorry "some other writer he thought was controversial yet so brave, but also a fool for inserting their hot take in a Vampire book" kicked a hornet's nest geographically close to MR*H that's also comfortable covertly killing and brutally maiming vocal critics. I don't expect Mark to fall over from plutonium poisoning in the coming years, but even having their attention temporarily drawn on you or your immediate family has to be terrifying.

Still, he decided to attach his writer's credit to the book with full knowledge that piece was in there from... someone. Strange how he has such foresight on the dangers now....

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Warthur posted:

It's like the old saying: to Americans, 100 years is a long time, to Europeans 100 miles is a long way.

And to a sufficiently motivated intelligence agency, 100 miles is no distance at all.

Nuns with Guns posted:

I think it's valid for M*RH to believe his life or livelihood could be endangered because he- sorry "some other writer he thought was controversial yet so brave, but also a fool for inserting their hot take in a Vampire book" kicked a hornet's nest geographically close to MR*H that's also comfortable covertly killing and brutally maiming vocal critics. I don't expect Mark to fall over from plutonium poisoning in the coming years, but even having their attention temporarily drawn on you or your immediate family has to be terrifying.

Still, he decided to attach his writer's credit to the book with full knowledge that piece was in there from... someone. Strange how he has such foresight on the dangers now....
I imagine the expectation of this mystery writer was that everyone would rise up at one and strike this vile evil from the world. Or at least that shining a light on it would make the cockroaches run away. But..well... Chechnya. So now it's "No no I told them not to do it they were the fools not me please don't cut me off from my baby!"

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013

andrew smash posted:

You never know in a little town. All it takes is one DM who runs a lot of games and insists 3.5 is God's chosen RPG and suddenly his players are a little isolated pocket of demand. What would be more telling is how long they've all sat there. Were they used?

At least half looked to be brand new.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I remember when MRH's stated position on fascism was to bravely turn the other cheek until you were out of cheeks and then let them beat you to death because it's wrong to punch a fascist.

It's interesting that after offending real world fascists, we discover that his actual position was to hide in the next country over and pretend your imaginary friend did it.

BetterWeirdthanDead
Mar 7, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Roadie posted:

At least half looked to be brand new.

There’s a place near me with 3.5 and ‘90s AD&D books at full price. I know it’s sunk cost, but those books might as well be structural support for the shelving at this point.

Warthur
May 2, 2004



Kurieg posted:

And to a sufficiently motivated intelligence agency, 100 miles is no distance at all.
And I guess MR*H is egotistical enough to imagine that he's worth an intelligence agency's time.

Of course, the best way to avoid creating that impression would be to not pretend you have special sources inside Chechnya, which was my original point: he had loving none, and his claims that he had any was like some random dork who lived in West Germany claiming they had specially-placed contacts within the Warsaw Pact back in the Cold War, and his continued claims that he has those contacts is an attempt to shame people into stopping talking about this thing which he totally didn't write himself.

andrew smash posted:

You never know in a little town. All it takes is one DM who runs a lot of games and insists 3.5 is God's chosen RPG and suddenly his players are a little isolated pocket of demand.
Even then, wouldn't it be more effective to just take them off the shelves and eBay them (because it's much more likely that there's a pocket of 3.5E demand somewhere than it is that one is going to suddenly pop up in your town) and reclaim the shelf space for something fresh?

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019

moths posted:

I remember when MRH's stated position on fascism was to bravely turn the other cheek until you were out of cheeks and then let them beat you to death because it's wrong to punch a fascist.

It's interesting that after offending real world fascists, we discover that his actual position was to hide in the next country over and pretend your imaginary friend did it.

Look fascist some aren’t racist, and we shouldn’t be afraid of or fight them. They are just fighting for their blood and souls.

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

There's now a roll20 unofficial browser extension that makes it much better. Never awkwardly scroll left and right through the worst ui ever created to choose a map again.
Roll20’s UI isn’t good by any stretch, but it’s not anywhere near the worst UI I’ve seen in a virtual table top program.

That’s really Roll20 all the way down - it’s a mess of a program but it’s also the best in class for its type. Which really says a lot more about how bad the competition is than anything else.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

moths posted:

I remember when MRH's stated position on fascism was to bravely turn the other cheek until you were out of cheeks and then let them beat you to death because it's wrong to punch a fascist.

It's interesting that after offending real world fascists, we discover that his actual position was to hide in the next country over and pretend your imaginary friend did it.
I had forgotten about this until just now, and it took me a while to find the receipts
But yes, prior to this event MR*H's stance was "The only way to defeat facism is for brave people to die peacefully opposing them."

TheDiceMustRoll
Jul 23, 2018

moths posted:

I remember when MRH's stated position on fascism was to bravely turn the other cheek until you were out of cheeks and then let them beat you to death because it's wrong to punch a fascist.

It's interesting that after offending real world fascists, we discover that his actual position was to hide in the next country over and pretend your imaginary friend did it.

Does he have a christian upbringing, perhaps? Turning the other cheek is pretty jesus-y

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Roadie posted:

I just stopped in at a gaming shop in a town of 10,000 people, and they had a shelf full of 3.5 books (multiple copies each) marked at $20-$30.

Who do they think is ever going to buy those???

I used to buy all the $5-10 used 4th Edition books from my local gaming store... and then they started marking them up to $15-20 and I stopped. Maybe they're doing a similar song and dance with someone who actually likes 3.5? :v:

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Does he have a christian upbringing, perhaps?

I'm pretty sure he's just another centerist horseshoe-theory coward. If he were coming from a position of killing them with kindness, I could respect that, but nothing suggests he's in that school.

Warthur
May 2, 2004



TheDiceMustRoll posted:

Does he have a christian upbringing, perhaps? Turning the other cheek is pretty jesus-y

MR*H has a honking great boner for the fall of Communism (it's all over Vampire 1st Edition core book to an outright weird extent and is part of why he moved to Georgia), so I guess he thinks that the apparent bloodlessness of those revolutions (compared at least to the bloodbaths they could have been) means that there's no reason nonviolence shouldn't universally work, despite the fact that very particular conditions applied during the fall of the Warsaw Pact regimes and nonviolence generally only works if the regime either has a conscience or is able to be embarrassed by international condemnation.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


Kurieg posted:

I had forgotten about this until just now, and it took me a while to find the receipts

But yes, prior to this event MR*H's stance was "The only way to defeat facism is for brave people to die peacefully opposing them."

Never forget this is also the extended throwdown where MRH teased """knowledge""" of Olivia Hill being a domestic abuser, including mentioning mutual acquaintances and stuff he'd heard, then when called out backpedaled to "clearly you've got anger issues, so it's a natural extrapolation."

To score points in a Facebook argument about the ethics of Nazi-punching.

Even discounting literally everything else (but don't), that alone is worth picking him up gingerly and placing him directly into the dumpster.

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 24, 2019

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I used to buy all the $5-10 used 4th Edition books from my local gaming store... and then they started marking them up to $15-20 and I stopped. Maybe they're doing a similar song and dance with someone who actually likes 3.5? :v:

Yeah, I have a small list of 3.5 books I'd happily pick up at $20 a pop to complete my collection.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

quote:


Way to completely miss the point of Niemöller's statement, H*RH.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
So the author of the seminal edgy 90s roleplaying game gets his morality from the PSAs in children's cartoons.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
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#1 Builder
2014-2018

Halloween Jack posted:

So the author of the seminal edgy 90s roleplaying game gets his morality from the PSAs in children's cartoons.

It's actually pretty obvious if you read the books he worked on.

Like no lie literally every line he helped create got much better when he left.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Comrade Gorbash posted:

Roll20’s UI isn’t good by any stretch, but it’s not anywhere near the worst UI I’ve seen in a virtual table top program.

That’s really Roll20 all the way down - it’s a mess of a program but it’s also the best in class for its type. Which really says a lot more about how bad the competition is than anything else.
Yeah it's best in class as far as I see. I don't mean roll20 overall is the worst ui ever. (It's bad, but it's not that.) However, specifically, the map selection UI is really bad if you have a lot of maps. There's a horizontal scrollbar that is really awkward when you're trying to rearrange maps or look for a map to switch to.

Tendales
Mar 9, 2012

Roadie posted:

I just stopped in at a gaming shop in a town of 10,000 people, and they had a shelf full of 3.5 books (multiple copies each) marked at $20-$30.

Who do they think is ever going to buy those???

In the 4e days, we could pretty easily move 3.5 core books for almost twice that much, even used books in mediocre condition. I bet they had a taste of that and are assuming the market didn't actually change any and those books will just increase in collector's value just you wait.

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

Kurieg posted:

I had forgotten about this until just now, and it took me a while to find the receipts

But yes, prior to this event MR*H's stance was "The only way to defeat facism is for brave people to die peacefully opposing them."

So the Hawkeye Pierce approach to complex problems?

I'll never forget the episode that him and the Colonel are trapped in a foxhole while Chinese are advancing and firing on them, the Colonel begs Pierce to draw his pistol and shoot, he begs because he truly believes he is about to die and is right to think that when Hawkeye finally gives in and...

Shoots his pistol wildly into the air, firing all 7 shots. The Colonelis furious, now they are defenseless against an actual Chinese assault.

Then all the Chinese happened to leave and everything worked out and Pierce got to act like he saved the day when little 9 year old me is having a panic attack about how Pierce nearly let them die, and thus in extension all patients he or the Colonel might have in the future, just to make a point...

I still love that show and all the characters in it, but I have to skip that episode when I rewatch MASH.


Also,

Mark posted:

"By expressing Antifa sentiments you are certainly revealing your weltanschauung."

:wtc:

Punkinhead fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 24, 2019

Free Gratis
Apr 17, 2002

Karate Jazz Wolf
For all the whining Mark Rein•Hagen is doing over being blamed for NuWhite Wolf’s mishandling, you’d think the polygon article would at least mention his name but, in fact, no names are pointed to at all!

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Tendales posted:

In the 4e days, we could pretty easily move 3.5 core books for almost twice that much, even used books in mediocre condition. I bet they had a taste of that and are assuming the market didn't actually change any and those books will just increase in collector's value just you wait.

Some of the 3.5e books got up to 100 bucks when they were out of print, but with WotC doing premium reprints of the core 3.5e books and other high-demand things like the Spell Compendium and Magic Item compendium, they've sunk back down to $30-50 in good condition. This is for "secondary core" 3.5 books that appeal to both players and DMs, though. poo poo like "yet another supplement for Eberron" or "Monster Manual XIXX" are more split on prices, and almost all 3.0 rulebooks are firmly in the "clearance bin"-levels.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

PinheadSlim posted:

So the Hawkeye Pierce approach to complex problems?

I'll never forget the episode that him and the Colonel are trapped in a foxhole while Chinese are advancing and firing on them, the Colonel begs Pierce to draw his pistol and shoot, he begs because he truly believes he is about to die and is right to think that when Hawkeye finally gives in and...

Shoots his pistol wildly into the air, firing all 7 shots. The Colonelis furious, now they are defenseless against an actual Chinese assault.

Then all the Chinese happened to leave and everything worked out and Pierce got to act like he saved the day when little 9 year old me is having a panic attack about how Pierce nearly let them die, and thus in extension all patients he or the Colonel might have in the future, just to make a point...

I still love that show and all the characters in it, but I have to skip that episode when I rewatch MASH.


That's fascinating because I always thought the point of that episode was that Hawkeye was obviously being an idiot clinging desperately to his pacifism as a response to all the ridiculous trauma. Like, I didn't think the episode portrayed Colonel Potter as wrong. Been ages since I watched it though.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

HopperUK posted:

That's fascinating because I always thought the point of that episode was that Hawkeye was obviously being an idiot clinging desperately to his pacifism as a response to all the ridiculous trauma. Like, I didn't think the episode portrayed Colonel Potter as wrong. Been ages since I watched it though.

Yea I'm pretty sure the point there was both of them were desperately clinging to their worldviews. Potter, being a career military guy who's been through a lot of battles, believed that it was just self-evident that the overrun was coming and the only option that made sense was to shoot first to keep them back. Hawkeye, being a much more beaten down and yet pacifistic person after living in absolute death and misery, was so sure that he was right he was willing to literally disarm them rather than cause more death. The point was both had their beliefs of what was right to do and genuinely believed in them after years of experience in some of the worst situations possible.

Hawkeye, obviously, was the guy the writers likely wish they'd be in that situation, hence him being rewarded when it turns out everything was fine, but Potter was never really the rear end in a top hat there and I'm pretty sure 'fire your gun in the air just to spite things' wasn't presented as a heroic act.

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

Well I just rewatched the episode and it's funnier than I thought, and I did remember it very wrong. The Colonel wasn't begging Hawkeye, he was barking orders at him to shoot. And it turns out shooting the pistol into the air wasn't Hawkeyes idea, but the Colonels idea of a compromise when Hawkeye refused to shoot in the direction of the soldiers. Also they were both totally hammered at the time, slurring their speech and laughing, barely understanding the real danger they were in.

In the end the Chinese ran away because other soldiers did the dirty work for them and counter-assaulted, which I guess is lame from a moral lesson point of view.

Edit : As much as I love M*A*S*H it's not a traditional game so I'll chill on that topic for a bit, sorry

Punkinhead fucked around with this message at 22:52 on May 24, 2019

Spiteski
Aug 27, 2013



Comrade Gorbash posted:

Roll20’s UI isn’t good by any stretch, but it’s not anywhere near the worst UI I’ve seen in a virtual table top program.

That’s really Roll20 all the way down - it’s a mess of a program but it’s also the best in class for its type. Which really says a lot more about how bad the competition is than anything else.

Strong disagree there. Fantasy Grounds is easily better than R20 in nearly every way I know, with the one downside of not being suited to PbP/not-live-games. (And dynamic lighting, but that's coming in the next major update this year)

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

PinheadSlim posted:

Edit : As much as I love M*A*S*H it's not a traditional game so I'll chill on that topic for a bit, sorry

But it should be. Someone write a M*A*S*H RPG.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

But it should be. Someone write a M*A*S*H RPG.

that's just Lasers and Feelings but reskinned

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

But it should be. Someone write a M*A*S*H RPG.

You want something that plays more on the military side or the interpersonal drama/sitcom side? PATROL is set during the Vietnam War but could be pushed back to the Korean War with minimal effort and does a great job with the combat/emotional toll of war. You could do a Lasers and Feelings hack that fits more with the interpersonal drama/sitcom aspects.

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DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

sexpig by night posted:

that's just Lasers and Feelings but reskinned

It could be, but honestly battlefield medicine should be a Lasers skill while most of the medics on M*A*S*H were paragons of high-Feelings characters

just saying

EDIT: though if you changed the dichotomy to, say, 'Life and Death'.....

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