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Stop arguing with him, stop quoting him. Nobody cares.
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May 23, 2019 18:39
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divabot posted:please stop arguing with OOCC EDIT: 
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May 23, 2019 18:44
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RBA Starblade posted:Are you a teacher OOCC? IIRC OOCC is a rural school IT dude.
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May 23, 2019 18:47
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he's an international cat botherer
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May 23, 2019 18:58
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RBA Starblade posted:Are you a teacher OOCC? Technology coordinator for 3 extremely rural school districts that all hired me under one contract, plus a second job that is that but the town buildings. Also cat botherer.
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May 23, 2019 19:09
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Solkanar512 posted:What in the flying gently caress is so difficult about feeding children? Conservatives hate school meals because they think feeding children should be the job of parents and it erodes family structure.
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May 23, 2019 19:10
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On the one hand schools collapsing from structural damage is bad, on the other hand kids having to learn survival skills in the urban wilds is good preparation for climate change, which on the other hand (my political donors’ hand) doesn’t exist and will stop being taught as propaganda in the collapsed school, so who can say which is really bad? Let’s ask a panel of tech entrepreneurs to find out.
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May 23, 2019 19:44
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Republicans posted:Conservatives hate school meals because they think feeding children should be the job of parents and it erodes family structure. Also that entitlements argument where it encourages people to rely on the government for handouts for every problem instead of bootstrapping.
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May 23, 2019 22:09
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I can only sympathize with the Finnish/German/Frenchman earlier. I'm also european, and while I've heard of the state of the US school system it's still kind of hard to actually accept how some districts are literally on par with third-world countries - we think better of you than that, so there's a certain disbelief to overcome. Of course, "basic computer familiarity" is also going to be an important skill that the kids really ought to learn at school, so good luck with that - I hope you manage to feed them on the way, too. (And for clarification I agree that "tech people dumping more tech in schools" is less useful than fixing the basics first.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 22:51
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Computer viking posted:It's still kind of hard to actually accept how some districts are literally on par with third-world countries Hey, I resent that remark, I went to school in an actual third world country for a bit and it had laminated student ID cards, and while I'm pretty sure the textbook was from before the PRI took over the building wasn't falling apart. That's way better than some of the schools I went to in the US. Don Gato fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 07:31
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There was a study a while ago that said the education system when controlled for whiteness wasn't completely dire. As with many things in America, it comes down to racism.
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May 24, 2019 16:08
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Cicero posted:There's the potential for solving it, sure. That's the idea behind open textbooks, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStax Would textbooks like this need to be approved state by state in order to be used, or would a teacher just have to verify that the textbooks cover the necessary material according to the curriculum?
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May 24, 2019 16:59
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Computer viking posted:Of course, "basic computer familiarity" is also going to be an important skill that the kids really ought to learn at school I don't think this is as important as you think. Maybe for nursing homes but kids? Smart phones have proliferated down to elementary school. If anything teach safe online practices and how to identify scams, but don't waste time on computer literacy.
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May 24, 2019 17:14
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935 posted:I don't think this is as important as you think. Maybe for nursing homes but kids? Smart phones have proliferated down to elementary school. If anything teach safe online practices and how to identify scams, but don't waste time on computer literacy. That is computer literacy at this point.
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May 24, 2019 18:01
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PT6A posted:Would textbooks like this need to be approved state by state in order to be used, or would a teacher just have to verify that the textbooks cover the necessary material according to the curriculum? State by state I think. Legislation dictates textbook standards and is usually written by textbook industry insiders so that only a few publishers meet the standards.
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May 24, 2019 18:34
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935 posted:I don't think this is as important as you think. Maybe for nursing homes but kids? Smart phones have proliferated down to elementary school. If anything teach safe online practices and how to identify scams, but don't waste time on computer literacy. Are posters itt now actually arguing that kids dont need access to the basic tools most of them will use their whole working lives while in education
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May 24, 2019 18:53
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Are posters itt now actually arguing that kids dont need access to the basic tools most of them will use their whole working lives while in education no, but you can be the next guy to constantly argue against that strawman
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May 24, 2019 19:01
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HootTheOwl posted:Is your school buying new computers instead of fixing the roof? I don't know why I sometimes feel compelled to defend OOCC, but I think the point he is making is that telling schools to fix the roof instead of buying computers is like telling millennials to save up for a house instead of buying avocado toast. Maybe it's a tiny extravagance, but: it still serves some purpose, it's a drop in the bucket cost-wise, and buying it or not isn't going to have any affect on the structural issues that led to bats in roofs or $1M Bay Area fixer-uppers in the first place. Ipads in the classroom aren't the panacea that the scammers pushing them claim, but even the associated grift won't break the budget or worsen educational outcomes in a noticeable way when compared to the rest of the broken things this country does to gently caress up public schools.
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May 24, 2019 19:44
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Ultimate hipster techie spottedquote:Case of Bass
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May 24, 2019 19:45
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Jethro posted:I don't know why I sometimes feel compelled to defend OOCC, but I think the point he is making is that telling schools to fix the roof instead of buying computers is like telling millennials to save up for a house instead of buying avocado toast. this is the argument he is making. the problem is he is trying to exploit this discrepancy between operational and capital budgets, and the relative low cost of tech compared to facility repair, to rebut a wholly different argument which is that tech industry schemes to replace teachers with technology are exploitative and unlikely to lead to better educational outcomes. the recent derail was mostly fuelled by this misunderstanding as people try to stick up for big tech out of a sense of technological reverence
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May 24, 2019 19:57
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Jethro posted:
And I think everyone else’s point is that tech in the classroom is perfectly fine but you do not get to spike the football and celebrate your good deeds if you haven’t fixed the loving roof.
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May 24, 2019 19:58
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Jethro posted:Ipads in the classroom aren't the panacea that the scammers pushing them claim, but even the associated grift won't break the budget or worsen educational outcomes in a noticeable way when compared to the rest of the broken things this country does to gently caress up public schools. This whole discussion was started by the fact that LAUSD did gently caress their budget with ipads in the classroom and the associated grift.
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May 24, 2019 20:01
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935 posted:I don't think this is as important as you think. Maybe for nursing homes but kids? Smart phones have proliferated down to elementary school. If anything teach safe online practices and how to identify scams, but don't waste time on computer literacy. I guess it depends on your definition of basic computer literacy. You may not need to teach a teenager what a mouse is or how to get online, but I don't think the idea of a computer as a productivity tool is any more ingrained in the mind of a teenager in 2019 than it was in 2000. At the very least, people ought to be entering adulthood with the ability to break down a problem and identify if part of it can be done quicker with an automated workflow.
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May 24, 2019 20:12
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Trabisnikof posted:This whole discussion was started by the fact that LAUSD did gently caress their budget with ipads in the classroom and the associated grift. Having now looked into this issue in detail: gently caress me. Like, they paid for the ipads with "fixing the roof" construction bonds. Granted, more than half of the money was for internet infrastructure improvements, which could, theoretically, be useful no matter what ends up in the classroom, but Jesus.
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May 24, 2019 20:27
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https://twitter.com/kateconger/status/1132036802733232128?s=21 Surely this is good news for the company
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May 24, 2019 22:36
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Baronash posted:I guess it depends on your definition of basic computer literacy. You may not need to teach a teenager what a mouse is or how to get online, but I don't think the idea of a computer as a productivity tool is any more ingrained in the mind of a teenager in 2019 than it was in 2000. At the very least, people ought to be entering adulthood with the ability to break down a problem and identify if part of it can be done quicker with an automated workflow. Honestly I think if anything it’s gotten worse. As computers have become more ubiquitous and easier to use overall, the understanding of how they work and how to use them in order to solve and optimize problems has gone down. Mind you, that’s not a problem that’s going to be solved with heavily-restricted tablets.
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May 25, 2019 15:44
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PT6A posted:Honestly I think if anything it’s gotten worse. As computers have become more ubiquitous and easier to use overall, the understanding of how they work and how to use them in order to solve and optimize problems has gone down. At the local government level we spend a not zero amount of time trying to decide what level of literacy with computers students probably need coming out of our sister school district and the only thing we've come up with so far is we probably need to reassess what classes should be high school level versus early college. Some examples would be classes like "Physics 109" which focused on the way electronics and computers work, how electricity works and how the EM spectrum works would probably better core curriculum for students than woodshop at this moment in history. The main thing we've noticed is the amount of students that can do computer touching competently seems to be no different than 20 years ago, and thats fine, if thats just kind of the way people are, but we dont know for sure because it seems like computer education itself hasnt changed much in that time period.
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May 25, 2019 16:25
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Jethro posted:Having now looked into this issue in detail: gently caress me. Like, they paid for the ipads with "fixing the roof" construction bonds. Granted, more than half of the money was for internet infrastructure improvements, which could, theoretically, be useful no matter what ends up in the classroom, but Jesus. The infrastructure improvements were acutely necessary to support the online-responsive standardized test that the district was adopting, too. It was all fundamentally tied to the curriculum market when you dig down into it.
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May 25, 2019 16:54
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RuanGacho posted:At the local government level we spend a not zero amount of time trying to decide what level of literacy with computers students probably need coming out of our sister school district and the only thing we've come up with so far is we probably need to reassess what classes should be high school level versus early college. For what it’s worth, what I’ve seen in doing training in technical and non-technical fields is a weakness in the ability to take knowledge and skills the student already has, and synthesize a method for accomplishing a novel but still related task. It’s easier said than done obviously, to teach that, but I think it has to be the end goal of education, whether in computer literacy or anything else. From there, the next step needs to be teaching the student how to evaluate their own performance and improve upon it. It’s a big ask, but ultimately the payoff is far greater than figuring out a list of required tasks a student must be able to perform and then ensuring they can perform them, because without that deeper understanding of the process, learning every further new task is going to be starting from scratch.
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May 25, 2019 17:00
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PT6A posted:For what it’s worth, what I’ve seen in doing training in technical and non-technical fields is a weakness in the ability to take knowledge and skills the student already has, and synthesize a method for accomplishing a novel but still related task. It’s easier said than done obviously, to teach that, but I think it has to be the end goal of education, whether in computer literacy or anything else. From there, the next step needs to be teaching the student how to evaluate their own performance and improve upon it. Agreed. To bring this back around to thread topic, it seems like this deficiency is what leads to the "code a solution to every problem" that reinvents public transport.
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May 25, 2019 17:32
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RuanGacho posted:Agreed. Yeah, I remember taking a class on “Human-Computer Interaction” and the prof discussed the value of pencil and paper for a good while. It’s cheap, it’s almost everywhere already, it’s failure states are practically non-existent, it’s durable, and it’s flexible in terms of being able to record data non-linearly. Part of tech literacy is being able to evaluate situations for the possibility that less technology is a better thing. If you lack the ability to evaluate your own process/solution, you will end up doing absurd poo poo for its own sake.
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May 25, 2019 19:04
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I've created an app called "nailr" which pairs with a bespoke AI-enabled device connected to your smartphone that you can affix to a surface (it uses a vacuum pump system combined with a bio-mimetic gecko foot metastructure to stay in place no matter the angle), put one of our intellinails in the magazine, and over a period of 5 minutes it will insert the nail into the surface, sending you a whatsapp message when it finishes. You can then use the app to see the status of each individual intellinail and even create a 3D model showing you which ones need to be replaced soon. The app is free with the device which is $1999.99, which comes with a free complement of 10 intellinails. You can buy more intellinails at a nailr approved vendor for $100 for a magazine of 20 nails We're entering Series A funding in July, our team is 5 marketing associates, 3 salespeople, a CEO, CTO, CMO, CIO, COO, and 20 web developers
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May 25, 2019 19:31
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Pochoclo posted:I've created an app called "nailr" which pairs with a bespoke AI-enabled device connected to your smartphone that you can affix to a surface (it uses a vacuum pump system combined with a bio-mimetic gecko foot metastructure to stay in place no matter the angle), put one of our intellinails in the magazine, and over a period of 5 minutes it will insert the nail into the surface, sending you a whatsapp message when it finishes. You can then use the app to see the status of each individual intellinail and even create a 3D model showing you which ones need to be replaced soon. No CFO? Good luck getting that VC cash then. 
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May 25, 2019 20:16
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BART dunks on Musk. https://twitter.com/SFBART/status/1132131527439990785
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May 25, 2019 21:13
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Can I say that I hate how AI/machine learning is portrayed in news media as a weird monolithic thing with a mind of its own while ever so conviniently erasing the people who create, train and interpret them
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May 25, 2019 21:30
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Can I say that I hate how AI/machine learning is portrayed in news media as a weird monolithic thing with a mind of its own while ever so conviniently erasing the people who create, train and interpret them It's what the AI that monitors their site traffic and public feedback determined was the best way to talk about it... 
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May 25, 2019 21:37
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I remember taking a class on “Human-Computer Interaction” and the prof discussed the value of pencil and paper for a good while. It’s cheap, it’s almost everywhere already, it’s failure states are practically non-existent, it’s durable, and it’s flexible in terms of being able to record data non-linearly. One of the problems is that people are vulnerable to marketing. Yeah pen and paper is perfect for a whole gently caress load of uses but it's soooooo ooooooollllllllld. Smart toasters shouldn't exist. The smart toaster is an abomination. Smart boards were a terrible idea. Neat toy, sure, but overall an awful idea. My coffee maker doesn't even have a clock on it. It doesn't need to. It needs a button. One. Button. I put water in. I put coffee in. I press a button. Coffee comes out. That's all it needs to do.
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May 25, 2019 21:41
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you dont even need the buttons, coffee makers have existed for hundreds of years
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May 25, 2019 22:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the problems is that people are vulnerable to marketing. Yeah pen and paper is perfect for a whole gently caress load of uses but it's soooooo ooooooollllllllld. Another cool thing is that we don’t have to go fully one way or the other. I love pen and paper for taking notes quickly and being able to draw diagrams quickly and brainstorm, but I have a problem keeping paper organised and being able to find things when I need them. So, I bought a super fast scanner and now I have the ease of being able to jot poo poo down and the backup/storage/indexing features that digital media affords compared to a traditional filing cabinet. Technology is at its best when we use it when we want to, when it serves a clear purpose, not when we force ourselves into it. And, you know, maybe for some people having that fresh pot of coffee ready to go when they wake up is worth the complexity of programming a coffee maker, and maybe someone else wants the fine-grained control of a super-automatic espresso maker, and still another prefers the control of tamping down the coffee and pulling the shot by hand, or making coffee with a French press. There’s no right or wrong way, and I’ve done all of the above, it’s a matter of using technology (digital or otherwise) to enhance our lives and solve our problems, rather than working rear end-backward and trying to shoehorn tech into things for its own sake. PT6A fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 25, 2019 |
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May 25, 2019 23:10
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I think all of the "smart X" is really less about the founders genuinely believing that technology will somehow revolutionize the way that people make toast, and more that slapping a wifi card on any random device is an easy path to millions in funding. Which makes the VCs look stupid, but in fact they just invest in hundreds of things they're relatively certain are going to fail and so long as one of those blows up, they're golden. The only people who end up screwed in this scenario are employees, who take below market pay and equity that's almost certainly worthless, even in the majority of favourable outcomes.
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May 26, 2019 01:27
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