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megane posted:All horses need is for the 2HP bump from the gigantic force field that extends 15 feet in every direction from the horse to not instantly knock you out of whatever attack you're aiming at the guy (The other is watching them go full skyrim physics, or treating "you will die if you stay here for 5 seconds, get back in the fight you baby!" zones as travel lanes) Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:31 on May 26, 2019 |
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May 26, 2019 01:29
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Section Z posted:Part of why this is one of the only two things about horses that bugs me, is that whoever lands the kill on the 4th pass, it's just sucks the life out of what should be a cool high speed kill. Those zones are travel lanes for horses. Horses are prob my favorite thing about this all-around excellent game. I only recently realized that when people parry your horse attack, it knocks their weapon out of their hand! Now I never feel bad about missing the kill because some guy parried.
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May 26, 2019 01:54
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My take on horses is they are a skill negation mechanic where the normal rule of if a baby shithead comes across a real life shithead who is never the less much better at mordhau than the baby shithead would lose every single encounter hands down. Its like someone else in the thread mentioned if you had five guys capable of finding which end of the stick goes in the other dude than you pretty much have frontlines in the bag, so in order to improve the over-all fun of frontlines you need ways in which the special class kids can drive a short-bus or in this case, a horse, over the tops of the twitchy power-gamers. Thus things like horses and catapults... temporary, slow (overall) kill rate, unreliable ways to allow an absolute inbreed to take out a much better player... flattening out the game and avoiding the chivarly problem of power gaming autists helicoptering around aggressively defending themselves from having fun.
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May 26, 2019 02:06
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Motherfucker posted:My take on horses is they are a skill negation mechanic where the normal rule of if a baby shithead comes across a real life shithead who is never the less much better at mordhau than the baby shithead would lose every single encounter hands down. Its like someone else in the thread mentioned if you had five guys capable of finding which end of the stick goes in the other dude than you pretty much have frontlines in the bag, so in order to improve the over-all fun of frontlines you need ways in which the special class kids can drive a short-bus or in this case, a horse, over the tops of the twitchy power-gamers. Thus things like horses and catapults... temporary, slow (overall) kill rate, unreliable ways to allow an absolute inbreed to take out a much better player... flattening out the game and avoiding the chivarly problem of power gaming autists helicoptering around aggressively defending themselves from having fun. Plus horses are cool, they were a major part of people fighting with swords and sticks, the game does them really well, they are fun. There is more than one 'hard counter' to horses. There is spike walls, barricades, the billhook, ballistas, and archers. The rider can heal but the horse can not heal, so if archers shoot the horse they will quickly kill it.
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May 26, 2019 02:19
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Whenever i use a billhook i get really mad about the horse bumping me for 2 damage, interrupting my swing, and cheating me out of my deserved free kill also yes i understand that this is my fault for being bad and swinging too late
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May 26, 2019 02:23
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Horse hitboxes are mostly weird because they're the ones that match the visuals least. Everything else is pretty good about it.
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May 26, 2019 02:48
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hakimashou posted:Plus horses are cool, they were a major part of people fighting with swords and sticks, the game does them really well, they are fun. No, they aren't, or at least, they're intended to only be fun for the target audience of 'infants afraid of the main draw of the game' once you are actually good at the core of the game you will be getting more kills and doing more work wading in with an actual weapon and reliably putting it to use reshaping the malformed skulls of elementary school children before they can call you a human being. Once you are able to do that a horse actually slows you down since you can only lance one or two societal boils every now and than but you can maul through an entire crowd on foot thus you are better served leaving the horse behind for someone who needs that drip feed of kills to keep them alive or at least, to keep them feeling like they are a relevant part of the game. I don't even know what they call these things but most large scale multiplayer style games have them, stuff like turrets that let you scoop some kills from a set area but limit the overall killing you COULD be doing so veterans can't wipe the map clean with them but newbies can use them to feel like they're contributing. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 05:16 on May 26, 2019 |
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May 26, 2019 05:13
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Motherfucker posted:No, they aren't, or at least, they're intended to only be fun for the target audience of 'infants afraid of the main draw of the game' once you are actually good at the core of the game you will be getting more kills and doing more work wading in with an actual weapon and reliably putting it to use reshaping the malformed skulls of elementary school children before they can call you a human being. Once you are able to do that a horse actually slows you down since you can only lance one or two societal boils every now and than but you can maul through an entire crowd on foot thus you are better served leaving the horse behind for someone who needs that drip feed of kills to keep them alive or at least, to keep them feeling like they are a relevant part of the game. Nah you've got it wrong. Horses are a lot of fun you should try riding them. The point of riding them is that they are fun as heck
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May 26, 2019 07:05
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Whenever i use a billhook i get really mad about the horse bumping me for 2 damage, interrupting my swing, and cheating me out of my deserved free kill This game is like chivalry, any time someone complains, it is always fundamentally because they are bad at it
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May 26, 2019 07:06
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Instead of removing horses they need to add a cart pulled by several horses. One guy driving it straight into the melee where it gets stopped by the sheer amount of bodies in the way, a couple dudes on the back desperatily trying to hit anything and mostly just chopping off the heads of their buddies and the obligatory guy on the lute playing a lovely midi conversion of Ride of The Valkyries, not even stopping as a well-aimed firebomb sets the cart ablaze.
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May 26, 2019 07:52
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gimme a fuckin scimitar Triternion you cowards. gimme a talwar you oafs, or a kilij
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May 26, 2019 09:49
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Steak posted:lol You could probably just use your fists and still launch enemies into the stratosphere due to being seated on a horse
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May 26, 2019 10:24
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Motherfucker posted:My take on horses is they are a skill negation mechanic where the normal rule of if a baby shithead comes across a real life shithead who is never the less much better at mordhau than the baby shithead would lose every single encounter hands down. Its like someone else in the thread mentioned if you had five guys capable of finding which end of the stick goes in the other dude than you pretty much have frontlines in the bag, so in order to improve the over-all fun of frontlines you need ways in which the special class kids can drive a short-bus or in this case, a horse, over the tops of the twitchy power-gamers. Thus things like horses and catapults... temporary, slow (overall) kill rate, unreliable ways to allow an absolute inbreed to take out a much better player... flattening out the game and avoiding the chivarly problem of power gaming autists helicoptering around aggressively defending themselves from having fun.
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May 26, 2019 10:25
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Phlegmish posted:You could probably just use your fists and still launch enemies into the stratosphere due to being seated on a horse Fists do one shot people when you're on a horse.
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May 26, 2019 10:31
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Phlegmish posted:You could probably just use your fists and still launch enemies into the stratosphere due to being seated on a horse Anything will one shot at max speed. Being a naked peasant man on horseback is the only way you're dismembering people in heavy armour with the scythe.
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May 26, 2019 10:48
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Farm Frenzy posted:yeah theyre annoying as poo poo but i've never seen horses change the course of a game or really have any effect at all. its like jets in battlefield. archers are basically the same way except theyre snipers in battlefield. Uhh. On camp Red can just be spawncamped by two horses. Horses and the spawns are one of the many terrible map design decisions.
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May 26, 2019 11:08
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Camp is kind of a lovely map because it's so open, I just want to fight but there's a thousand projectiles coming at you from both sides, horse bros running you down, etc.
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May 26, 2019 11:13
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Phlegmish posted:Camp is kind of a lovely map because it's so open, I just want to fight but there's a thousand projectiles coming at you from both sides, horse bros running you down, etc. It’s the best frontline map
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May 26, 2019 11:15
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It comes closest to simulating what a medieval battle might have been like, but once you get past that it's not that much fun to play. Grad is probably my favorite Frontline map. The ice-themed one isn't bad either, but when red gets pushed back to their last point it turns into this awful chokepoint slog.
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May 26, 2019 11:28
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One thing I have noticed is most people will absolutely fall for a morph stab into overhead. Even using an executioner sword - I'd say half of my kills are people parrying the stab and dying to the cleave.
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May 26, 2019 11:57
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Uhh. On camp Red can just be spawncamped by two horses. Horses and the spawns are one of the many terrible map design decisions. i think the spawns are just the most obvious symptom of how lovely the frontline map design can be. i see people (unintentionally??) spawncamp all the time because its pretty easy to just wander into them and any kind of organised griefing with engineers or something can make things really lovely
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May 26, 2019 12:04
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TheAardvark posted:One thing I have noticed is most people will absolutely fall for a morph stab into overhead. Even using an executioner sword - I'd say half of my kills are people parrying the stab and dying to the cleave. Morphs and feints from a stab as a whole tend to be pretty difficult to react to. Most weapons' thrust active frames begin pretty much immediately after the grunt, so trying to decide whether to parry or not on reaction tends to rarely ever work out. These days against thrusts I basically just go for the chamber immediately, though that has its own risks
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May 26, 2019 12:54
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Delacroix posted:Anything will one shot at max speed. Being a naked peasant man on horseback is the only way you're dismembering people in heavy armour with the scythe. I'm pretty sure I've already gotten killed by said naked peasant on horseback. I think having the ability to couch pole arms or at least spears while on foot would be a good balance. Engineers can already kind of lock out areas with their pikes. Just expand that to something that can be carried.
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May 26, 2019 13:17
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Babe Magnet posted:gimme a fuckin scimitar Triternion you cowards. gimme a talwar you oafs, or a kilij
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May 26, 2019 13:30
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Farm Frenzy posted:yeah theyre annoying as poo poo but i've never seen horses change the course of a game or really have any effect at all. its like jets in battlefield. archers are basically the same way except theyre snipers in battlefield. You get it. I don't think they're pointless but they're definitely just keys jingling in the faces of people to distract them from their failings at grasping the core gameplay loop. Literally leveling out the playing field.
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May 26, 2019 13:42
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I don’t understand how anyone thinks horses are not effective. Obviously it depends on the map, for example in the map with bridges there’s not a lot of great places to go. However, In camp they are incredible and if you’re smart, avoid spots where the ballista can shoot and destroy the catapult you can go on incredible runs. In regards to the can’t lance fast enough, if you aren’t using the lance, you can just throw up a manual stab. So uh just don’t use the lance, it’s length can actually make it harder to couch someone anyway. Use another pole arm instead. The bardiche is a good choice. I had an 85 kill game with 15 deaths in camp, I don’t think anyone on red team felt I wasn’t effective or wasn’t killing fast enough. The biggest problem with horses right now is that they seem to bump people for full stuns outside of their hitbox. Also they deal increased damage even while stationary yet receive regular damage at speed, even against pole arms. The bill hook users can usually be avoided or if you change up speed you can easily still couch them. The bill hook is not as good as other polearms damage wise so it’s a bit of a gimmick. It’s not trash tier, but I’d probably pick all of the other polearms before it unless there is a real pesky horseman.
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May 26, 2019 16:17
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Its not effective because you never ever play the point or do objectives you just run around killing 1 out of the 20 guys on the map
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May 26, 2019 16:31
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 Best game I've ever had. Losing side of the winter map. 3/3/3 Executioner sword nothing else. This game becomes something totally different once you're competent to consistently win 1v1s, it's crazy. I was about to quit it right before I hit that point and now it's just a ton of fun.
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May 26, 2019 16:35
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Ristolaz posted:Its not effective because you never ever play the point or do objectives you just run around killing 1 out of the 20 guys on the map Dead people can’t cap points and neither can people who spend all of their time running back from spawn.
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May 26, 2019 16:44
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the problem is that people treat enemy horses like they're Reaper in Gold-tier Overwatch -- they pretend the scary horse doesn't exist and hope it doesn't kill them instead of actually contesting it like dang, the horse's health doesn't regenerate, if all of our team tries to hit the horse every time it rides by/fires or throws things at the horse, it should go down quick just don't ignore the dang horse! the same goes for dudes who manage to get on the enemy ballista on the castle in Grad and fire into blue team's back. For some reason people straight-up cannot figure out when this happens
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May 26, 2019 17:28
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Yea I mean you can hear them a mile away, you just have to turn and face them and be ready to throw the stab up early. If you have a short weapon it can be tough but you should at least turn and face them so you can block their attack. A smart horseman will generally go after guys in combat though, but at least you can help end the feeding while running from spawn to the front.
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May 26, 2019 17:52
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VulgarandStupid posted:I had an 85 kill game with 15 deaths in camp Haha! I'll bet that was a fun experience for you that let you alleviate some of the pressure of being: TheAardvark posted:This game becomes something totally different once you're competent to consistently win 1v1s, it's crazy. I was about to quit it right before I hit that point and now it's just a ton of fun. This guy, pre actually getting good... I mean your team wasn't thinking about you at all since while they were doing the relevant parts of the game you were playing a different game and are now trying to explain the skill set you honed doing that like it is even slightly relevant to the actual game. I mean, its nice you enjoy the player retention mechanics that are deliberately designed to boost your ego and make you feel like you're contributing while making sure you actually aren't but...
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May 26, 2019 17:56
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Honestly almost all my kills from horses happen when I'm actively trying to take them down and with annoying poo poo like one-way momentum bonus and the huge trampling force-field it's just not fun to bother with. If some pubbies getting lanced is the price for me having a more enjoyable time then I can live with that.
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May 26, 2019 17:59
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VulgarandStupid posted:Yea I mean you can hear them a mile away, you just have to turn and face them and be ready to throw the stab up early. If you have a short weapon it can be tough but you should at least turn and face them so you can block their attack. A smart horseman will generally go after guys in combat though, but at least you can help end the feeding while running from spawn to the front. I was there and was second at like 30 - 15 lmao
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May 26, 2019 18:00
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I mean my honest take is that all of the none direct combat things should go, and if you’re ever in discord you’ll see me complain about ballistas, archers, horses, catapults, firebombs, team bear traps and archers. But I just can’t help but interject if someone says horses are ineffective. To be clear 60 kill 20 death frontlines games while not playing Cav are pretty average for me, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the balance in this game.
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May 26, 2019 18:04
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Horses are like any other thing in games that give you a massive mobility bump in that you can completely invalidate yourself while still feeling good if you aren't using them right. I had a match where the enemy team just refused to bring out polearms on Grad, and we managed to capture the fields as blue team with a minimal amount of kills almost at the very start of the match because I spent the entire time riding around on my horse and picking fights with every single person coming out of spawn. Once you get fighting without couching down on horses you can totally gently caress people up by just slowly circling in a fight and swinging off the sides of your horse, because most attacks will hit the head and will also receive the horse speed bonus that turns everything into a one shot kill. As long as you don't get cornered you can just eat damage and trade really well on-point while also occasionally dipping out to slow down or kill any people reinforcing into the fight. Adding 5-10 seconds of travel time between spawn and the point is a huge thing in a game that's essentially based entirely around spawn distances and reinforcement (when there isn't someone hulking out and getting 5:1 K/D ratios or whatever on point.) One of the most effective uses of horses that I've seen is an enemy player who was identifying the top players on the other team and spent the entire round sniping them out of crowds and then bullying them on their way back to the fight from spawn. It was really annoying to deal with being targeted like that, and we started progressively losing the map because me and two other guys who were carrying the team were constantly getting rammed and picked out of the fight. We eventually had to bring out polearm builds because our team wasn't even remotely dealing with him and we restabilized, but it was very effective to just ram us down when all we could do was toss poo poo at him. Most of the time someone gets on a horse and does huge laps while missing their single attempt at a couched weapon kill every thirty seconds, and is usually killing the blind and deaf person who would have died falling into a river because they can't hold down a direction key and move their mouse at the same time. Commoners fucked around with this message at 18:12 on May 26, 2019 |
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May 26, 2019 18:10
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Motherfucker posted:Haha! I'll bet that was a fun experience for you that let you alleviate some of the pressure of being: God you are just full of terrible opinions. Horses can contribute by not allowing the enemy to reinforce. You can even often times fight on some points with them! Also, even if you are decent/not bad at the game they can still be fun!
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May 26, 2019 18:13
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VulgarandStupid posted:I mean my honest take is that all of the none direct combat things should go, and if you’re ever in discord you’ll see me complain about ballistas, archers, horses, catapults, firebombs, team bear traps and archers. But I just can’t help but interject if someone says horses are ineffective. I'm still not sure. If they took all of that out, it would be a very dry and serious game, much less funny than it is now. On the other hand, every time I get downed by a non-melee thing that was almost impossible to avoid (which happens a lot), I feel like I got my time wasted by bullshit and I like the game a little less. Maybe instead of taking those things out, they could modify some of the maps a bit. Again, I like Grad for this. Take horses - they can get kills, but there's also a bunch of things they can get stuck on and a lot of places where you're safe. You're unlikely to be caught unawares.
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May 26, 2019 18:13
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Motherfucker posted:Haha! I'll bet that was a fun experience for you that let you alleviate some of the pressure of being: I have no idea where this is coming from. Winter peaks is extremely blue sided. There were multiple times in that game where I single handedly retook the second point. I play entirely with my team, even when it means I get creamed.
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May 26, 2019 18:30
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horses are fun and good and if you want to sperg out and have serious sword battles there are private servers for that just dont forget to bow.
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May 26, 2019 18:32
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