Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

at D&D getting the job because they figured out that R+L=J but then had no idea how that was important to the rest of the story...

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

at D&D getting the job because they figured out that R+L=J but then had no idea how that was important to the rest of the story...

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

at D&D getting the job because they figured out that R+L=J but then had no idea how that was important to the rest of the story...

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

How soon they forget Lucky Wander Boy and Wolverine Origins. Because who would remember? Literally 50-year-old men getting places by having their dads call up old subordinates for favors.

The Easy Rider posted:

As an Eisenstein fan, I've got to piggyback on this; contrast the coronation scene in Ivan the Terrible versus all of the 'world-changing' events shown in the last episode.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3fuke1

On a formal level alone, we're given a sense of monarchy as an institution, its attending fantasies, and so on; when he's "baptized" in gold coins, we get an idea of the fantasy life of monarchy (endless wealth, divine providence providing a mandate, etc.) and its falsities through editing alone- every time we cut the bowls of coins are 'refilled' to give us an impression of limitless abundance. What does the Stark montage that closes the show tell us, conversely? Nothing, other than "they were now at home in their own clothes, comfortable in suitable roles, etc."

More than even the writing, the show's direction has changed significantly since the fourth season; in earlier seasons, a huge amount of information was conveyed visually, and this was often used to embed 'individual' actions within the larger systems and history governing the setting. All of the execution scenes in these earlier seasons cite one another in terms of their composition; Ned's execution by Joffrey, the Karstark execution by Rob, and the Winterfell Master-at-Arm's execution by Theon are all shot similarly, for instance, and convey the same basic point about the basic limitations of honor and monarchical law and how the system perversely reproduces itself because of these basic limitations. Even when we were placed in the 'subjective' perspectives of characters, like when we see the Battle of the Blackwater from the Hound's perspective, it communicates a lot about the larger event beyond individual pathologies; the Hound's reaction tells us just as much, if not more, about the horror of the conflict as it does about his character.

The 'individual' scale portraits also benefited from contextualization provided through these views of the 'totality'; the Hound's lack of a proper place within the system while being unerringly drawn into its center, for instance, provides much better individual characterization from this position than Cleganebowl, for instance. Individual events are made to reflect back on the larger context, and both then benefit from it; the weird arrival of the new, Protestant-y Lord of Light is heralded as an event that breaks down the logic governing the situation by merit of its contrast with the Battle of the Blackwater, a similarity drawn on a purely visual level.

The action choreography and cinematography started playing second-fiddle to exposition somewhere around the fifth season; it was particularly notable during the various Harpies vs. Unsullied skirmishes and in the death of Dany's Queen's Guard. Everything we were meant to understand about both (the idea of the Unsullied as a disciplined, 'modern' army, the idea of the Harpies as the return of the 'repressed' system of slavery that wasn't actually abolished but allowed to persist with the illusion of the freedom of the masses while its structures remained intact, etc.) went out the window; instead it was 'television battle between two evenly matched sides fighting the same way'. The relation of either to their larger contexts just sort of disappeared. Occasionally the most memorable scenes of these later seasons seemed to 'get it' (I'm thinking of Hardhome's 'zombies as tide' imagery and the 'Westerosi Apocalypse Now dragon/helicopter attack' scenes), but by in large we sort of lose this entirely. This was the biggest problem with the Battle of Winterfell; individual scenes were shot as if its defenders were overrun, only to cut away, and upon returning they remain standing. All the individual units of action don't really add up to anything, and the death of the Night King is just sort of thrown in as a substitute answer at the end of its sort of unworkable equation. While the production design didn't become 'bad' in terms of its quality, its deployment gets derailed pretty badly at this point, too; take a look at the tourney scene in the first season and how the armor worn by the Mountain and Loras communicate everything one would want to know about the factions they represent and their role in the narrative. By season eight, everyone just sort of wears Stark clothing if they're a "good guy", and Lannister clothing if they're on the other side. The sole exception to this are some of the dresses, which continue to look pretty great, but these are again deployed to match individuals' personalities rather than their relationship to a larger situation.

So yeah, on both a formal level and on the level of writing, we see this change occur, and I think that's why things sort of drop off in terms of quality.

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

I think I get Clegane Bowl, now...

The Easy Rider posted:

As an Eisenstein fan, I've got to piggyback on this; contrast the coronation scene in Ivan the Terrible versus all of the 'world-changing' events shown in the last episode.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3fuke1

On a formal level alone, we're given a sense of monarchy as an institution, its attending fantasies, and so on; when he's "baptized" in gold coins, we get an idea of the fantasy life of monarchy (endless wealth, divine providence providing a mandate, etc.) and its falsities through editing alone- every time we cut the bowls of coins are 'refilled' to give us an impression of limitless abundance. What does the Stark montage that closes the show tell us, conversely? Nothing, other than "they were now at home in their own clothes, comfortable in suitable roles, etc."

More than even the writing, the show's direction has changed significantly since the fourth season; in earlier seasons, a huge amount of information was conveyed visually, and this was often used to embed 'individual' actions within the larger systems and history governing the setting. All of the execution scenes in these earlier seasons cite one another in terms of their composition; Ned's execution by Joffrey, the Karstark execution by Rob, and the Winterfell Master-at-Arm's execution by Theon are all shot similarly, for instance, and convey the same basic point about the basic limitations of honor and monarchical law and how the system perversely reproduces itself because of these basic limitations. Even when we were placed in the 'subjective' perspectives of characters, like when we see the Battle of the Blackwater from the Hound's perspective, it communicates a lot about the larger event beyond individual pathologies; the Hound's reaction tells us just as much, if not more, about the horror of the conflict as it does about his character.

The 'individual' scale portraits also benefited from contextualization provided through these views of the 'totality'; the Hound's lack of a proper place within the system while being unerringly drawn into its center, for instance, provides much better individual characterization from this position than Cleganebowl, for instance. Individual events are made to reflect back on the larger context, and both then benefit from it; the weird arrival of the new, Protestant-y Lord of Light is heralded as an event that breaks down the logic governing the situation by merit of its contrast with the Battle of the Blackwater, a similarity drawn on a purely visual level.

The action choreography and cinematography started playing second-fiddle to exposition somewhere around the fifth season; it was particularly notable during the various Harpies vs. Unsullied skirmishes and in the death of Dany's Queen's Guard. Everything we were meant to understand about both (the idea of the Unsullied as a disciplined, 'modern' army, the idea of the Harpies as the return of the 'repressed' system of slavery that wasn't actually abolished but allowed to persist with the illusion of the freedom of the masses while its structures remained intact, etc.) went out the window; instead it was 'television battle between two evenly matched sides fighting the same way'. The relation of either to their larger contexts just sort of disappeared. Occasionally the most memorable scenes of these later seasons seemed to 'get it' (I'm thinking of Hardhome's 'zombies as tide' imagery and the 'Westerosi Apocalypse Now dragon/helicopter attack' scenes), but by in large we sort of lose this entirely. This was the biggest problem with the Battle of Winterfell; individual scenes were shot as if its defenders were overrun, only to cut away, and upon returning they remain standing. All the individual units of action don't really add up to anything, and the death of the Night King is just sort of thrown in as a substitute answer at the end of its sort of unworkable equation. While the production design didn't become 'bad' in terms of its quality, its deployment gets derailed pretty badly at this point, too; take a look at the tourney scene in the first season and how the armor worn by the Mountain and Loras communicate everything one would want to know about the factions they represent and their role in the narrative. By season eight, everyone just sort of wears Stark clothing if they're a "good guy", and Lannister clothing if they're on the other side. The sole exception to this are some of the dresses, which continue to look pretty great, but these are again deployed to match individuals' personalities rather than their relationship to a larger situation.

So yeah, on both a formal level and on the level of writing, we see this change occur, and I think that's why things sort of drop off in terms of quality.

quote:

individual scenes were shot as if its defenders were overrun, only to cut away, and upon returning they remain standing.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

S2 and 3 were the great when Sophie turner had her growth spurt and was towering over everyone.

TulliusCicero posted:

How tall is Sophie Turner?

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Google says 5’9”, but I feel like she’s taller than Kit Harrington

Farrier Theaks posted:

Hey good news no game of thrones tonight or ever again

Farrier Theaks posted:

Hey good news no game of thrones tonight or ever again

Solice Kirsk posted:

Jokes on you, I'm rewatching season 1. I almost forgot how good the show used to be.

Solice Kirsk posted:

Jokes on you, I'm rewatching season 1. I almost forgot how good the show used to be.

TulliusCicero posted:

I feel like the new way to watch GOT will be watch up to 4 and then skip around

Groovelord Neato posted:

he slid into her DMs. for real lol

TulliusCicero posted:

I feel like the new way to watch GOT will be watch up to 4 and then skip around

U-DO Burger posted:

drat even their irl relationships suffer from hack writing

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Thank loving god this show is dead

TulliusCicero posted:

Imagine if Return of the King was such a wet fart, and they skipped most of Rohan and Helms Deep in favor of more Ent time

LividLiquid posted:

You're thinking of Two Towers.

crazy cloud posted:

not only is LOTR bad too but actually all stories are bad and the first caveperson who stood up around the campfire trying to grunt out a narrative at their fellow homo habilis or whatever the gently caress ???? yea their writing sucked rear end too. there's never been a non-hack writer, including the author of this dimension, the biggest hack there has ever been

crazy cloud posted:

not only is LOTR bad too but actually all stories are bad and the first caveperson who stood up around the campfire trying to grunt out a narrative at their fellow homo habilis or whatever the gently caress ???? yea their writing sucked rear end too. there's never been a non-hack writer, including the author of this dimension, the biggest hack there has ever been

Vegetable posted:

I thought the actors for Cersei and Bronn couldn't be in the same room together, but in Season 3 episode 1, Cersei walks out of Tyrion's room while Bronn waits outside. Doesn't look like they used a body double.

Phenotype posted:

You... you realize they don't actually have, like, magic forcefields that keep them apart, right? Lena Headey just hates Bronn's actor and doesn't want to be around him, but it's not like they both explode if they get too close. Hell, in Season 3 they might not have fallen out yet, rumor has it that they dated at some point and Headey got really pissed at him after the breakup.

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Sky Shadowing posted:

Like, the ending equivalent to Lord of the Rings would be if Aragorn's story had changed to, rather than the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Aragorn had convinced Eomer and Theoden to follow him to the Black Gate, where things proceeded much as normal, except Sam is completely a worthless piece of poo poo who curls up into a ball in the corner of the Crack of Doom room crying, then Gollum willfully throws the Ring and himself into the fire. Frodo and Sam both are saved because they're blown clear, where Gandalf and the Eagles show up.

Then, Aragorn, having tried to claim the Kingship but been denied by Denethor, leads the army to the Pelennor Fields, where he summons the Army of the Dead to kill everyone within the city and burn it to the ground. Then Arwen murders him and gets on the ship with her father and sails for Valinor.

Then Pippin's made King of Gondor, and his vassals are Gandalf, Sam, Treebeard, Faramir, and Wormtongue (having trouble coming up with a Bronn analogue). Sam wants to grow more food and Treebeard suggests clear-cutting the forests. Wormtongue's one contribution was killing Saruman.

Oh and literally nothing before the start of Return of the King is changed.

Alec Eiffel posted:

Imagine if Lord of the Rings didn’t end on the big, mega evil, Sauron, but opted instead to–oh I don’t know–rez (or simply leave alive in the first place) Saruman and then the story actually ends with our intrepid hero having to take on a less apocalyptic menace.

That’s Thrones season 8.

Alec Eiffel posted:

Imagine if Lord of the Rings didn’t end on the big, mega evil, Sauron, but opted instead to–oh I don’t know–rez (or simply leave alive in the first place) Saruman and then the story actually ends with our intrepid hero having to take on a less apocalyptic menace.

That’s Thrones season 8.