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PC LOAD LETTER posted:I think B550 mobos are coming in Aug or Sept? Or just be on the look out for older boards that support PCIe 4.0 https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-amd-ryzen-3000-pcie-4.0-x470,39377.html quote:We confirmed that a PCIe 4.0 option is available on X470, but reports have surfaced that the option is also available for the budget-oriented B450 motherboards.
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May 27, 2019 19:41
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Plenty of goons couldn't wait to dump a few hundred on the BESTEST Z390 boards when the 9900k launched in the Intel and PC part picking threads 
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May 27, 2019 19:41
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jisforjosh posted:Or just be on the look out for older boards that support PCIe 4.0 That is pretty cool. Didn't think more than a few X470 mobo would support PCIe 4.0. orcane posted:Plenty of goons couldn't wait to dump a few hundred on the BESTEST Z390 boards when the 9900k launched in the Intel and PC part picking threads
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May 27, 2019 19:43
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GamersNexus said B550 isn't coming until next year. A lot of these X570 boards have truly monstrous VRMs and cooling. ASUS has a mITX board with two fans in the IO shield, plus heat pipes. That would be insane even on TR4 or X299, and we only have 105 watt parts announced. I feel like they wouldn't be doing this unless a) the 16 core part has an insane TDP bin, or b) Zen2 has something up its sleeve in boost configurations, aka a new PBO that actually works like AMD wanted it to. If they really have a fully working PBO scheme, that might be the reason to go X570. But we aren't going to get any of those details until June 10th.
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May 27, 2019 19:44
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Can you drop a Ryzen 3000 into a B450 or X470 and update the BIOS so it works or do you need a Ryzen 1000 or 2000 series CPU in there first?
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May 27, 2019 19:45
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Cygni posted:GamersNexus said B550 isn't coming until next year. Oh well at least current X470/B450 mobos aren't badly priced and will seem to work just fine. Cygni posted:I feel like they wouldn't be doing this unless a) the 16 core part has an insane TDP bin, or b) Zen2 has something up its sleeve in boost configurations, aka a new PBO that actually works like AMD wanted it to On the top end the mobo vendors have been over specing the heck out of things for a while. Go look at the Buildzoid review of the VRM of my X370 on the previous page for reference. That thing can put out so much power that the CPU becomes uncoolable with LN2 and its 'tame' compared to some of the VRM's on these new high end X570 mobos!! OhFunny posted:Can you drop a Ryzen 3000 into a B450 or X470 and update the BIOS so it works or do you need a Ryzen 1000 or 2000 series CPU in there first? PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 19:48
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I can see some parallels between RTX/Tensor cores and PCIe 4! Sounds like cool thing you really want for future proofing, gives marketing an excuse for a significant price increase, developed for HPC/servers and adapted for desktop consumers, kind of needs to mature or a die-shrink because it uses more power than you’d hope, isn’t ready for the mobile market and most consumers won’t *need* it for the next 2-3 years anyway. That’s when PCIe 5.0 is out.  I know that’s not completely accurate because of PCIe 4 SSDs/GPUs and what not but you get the idea.
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May 27, 2019 19:52
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spasticColon posted:I'm sorry but this feels like a wet fart to me or maybe I just bought into the hype too much.
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May 27, 2019 19:54
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OhFunny posted:Can you drop a Ryzen 3000 into a B450 or X470 and update the BIOS so it works or do you need a Ryzen 1000 or 2000 series CPU in there first? You'll need to update the BIOS before the 3000 series chips will work, so for some boards that means you need a temporary 1000/2000 series chip to update. Higher end boards usually have a way to update the BIOS from a USB drive even if no CPU is installed though.
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May 27, 2019 19:54
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:No, they spec'd to the 16C part AMD showed them apparently. Isn't that exactly what I said? 
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May 27, 2019 20:03
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The thing I'm really curious about with PCIe 4.0 is how or whether it will impact IOMMU groupings. If 4.0 has double the bandwidth of 3.0, then having an x8 slot won't really gimp graphics performance for GPU passthrough. Just being able to use half the lanes for the same kinds of splits will be really helpful even with storage. I can very confidently say that Threadripper 3000 series is going to get real weird. Especially if you do container/virtualization workloads.
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May 27, 2019 20:04
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TheFluff posted:Isn't that exactly what I said? It is!! I hosed up and mis-read 32C for some reason, somehow??? Sorry According to guys like Buildzoid and Steve at GN the 16C/32T parts are real and a thing and the mobo vendors have had them since maybe Dec 2018. So its probable they're coming just not yet so its maybe not a complete screw up. edit: from what I can tell when I used it last (long time ago) Ryzen Master is a buggy mess that I didn't trust. I've been OC'ing through the BIOS for years so I don't ever even bother with windows apps to do it. It was more just to see what it was like.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 20:06
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surf rock posted:Khorne, is there any program you'd recommend for doing the CPU overclocking test of stability and temperature? HWMonitor had a bug with AMD cpus where it would show incorrect clocks or voltages. I can't remember which and I have no idea if it was fixed. AMD has Ryzen Master Utility which is like hwmonitor and does more. I was kind of hoping someone else would chime in because I'm on an ancient setup. I did overclock my brother's 1600 with Ryzen Master + Prime 95. Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 20:08
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orcane posted:Plenty of goons couldn't wait to dump a few hundred on
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May 27, 2019 20:40
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Did AMD mention if they're keeping the StoreMI functionality for the 3000 series? That feels like it was a huge win for rolling your own NAS, or even laptops with a boot SSD+HDD, but I didn't see much come of it.
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May 27, 2019 21:15
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:
As of right now I'm definitely not regretting splurging on a Crosshair VII. I was worried that there would be cool new things that would make me want to upgrade the board as well as the processor, but  at the prices of the new boards.
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May 27, 2019 21:30
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I don't think there's a reason to get concerned over VRM's yet. The 3700X is 65w, which means pretty much any board should be able to handle that kind of power draw, especially if it isn't manually overclocked. From what Steve at GN has been implying, the ultra beefy X570 boards are probably not built as they are for 105w parts. There's probably something significantly more demanding on the horizon. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think the 3900X will cause any major problems for existing boards.
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May 27, 2019 21:55
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fknlo posted:As of right now I'm definitely not regretting splurging on a Crosshair VII. I was worried that there would be cool new things that would make me want to upgrade the board as well as the processor, but
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May 27, 2019 21:58
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Khorne posted:What are the prices? I somehow missed that leak. GamersNexus had pricing info for at least the Gigabyte boards in their coverage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDA0zBR6MgA (Unfortunately no text form available, video only.) stealth edit: - Gigabyte X570 Xtreme: ~$600 - Gigabyte X570 Master: ~$350 - Gigabyte X570 Ultra: ~$300 - Gigabyte X570 Pro: ~$260 ($250 without wifi) - Gigabyte X570 Elite: ~$200 - Gigabyte X570 Gaming X: ~$170 As a point of reference, comparing a few names (like, Gaming X with Gaming X) with their Z390 lineup at retail pricing right now, these boards are ~$30-$40 more expensive. The Z390 Gaming X is $140, and Z390 Xtreme is $560, for example. e2: they actually have real heatsinks with finstacks and everything for the VRM too now, so if anything you'd be able to run more CPU with less VRM with these, assuming you have some decent airflow in your case TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:01
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Dramicus posted:I don't think there's a reason to get concerned over VRM's yet. The 3700X is 65w, which means pretty much any board should be able to handle that kind of power draw, especially if it isn't manually overclocked. From what Steve at GN has been implying, the ultra beefy X570 boards are probably not built as they are for 105w parts. There's probably something significantly more demanding on the horizon. One option is: the tdp figures are way out.
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May 27, 2019 22:02
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:One option is: the tdp figures are way out. Could be, but AMD has historically been honest with TDP. It was Intel that started the practice of reporting TDP as less than max power draw.
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May 27, 2019 22:07
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TheFluff posted:GamersNexus had pricing info for at least the Gigabyte boards in their coverage: Jesus what's with the ~$80 premium on the Pro version compared to the Z390 Pro at $160-190
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May 27, 2019 22:08
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jisforjosh posted:Jesus what's with the ~$80 premium on the Pro version compared to the Z390 Pro at $160-190 Dunno, but the Z390 Pro is weirdly placed even within its own chipset since the Z390 Elite retails for the same price. I can't be arsed to look up what the differences between them are at the moment.
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May 27, 2019 22:11
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I have wanted to buy or build a new system for a long time, but don't have much money to spare. I've got a parts list on NewEgg that is just over $900 built around a 2600x, and I see a Dell system built around 2700x that is on sale for about the same price. Either way I'll be moving my GeForce 1060 6gb from my current machine to serve as the GPU. My question is, if Ryzen 3 is due out at the beginning of July, how much of a price drop on Ryzen 2 CPUs and mobos should I expect? Should I force myself to wait into next month, or do you think the prices will be pretty flat for a while despite the new chips launching? Edit: Also, how much performance difference would there be on the Ryzen 2 CPUs between 2400 and 3200 speed RAM? CaptainSarcastic fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:11
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TheFluff posted:Dunno, but the Z390 Pro is weirdly placed even within its own chipset since the Z390 Elite retails for the same price. I can't be arsed to look up what the differences between them are at the moment. The Pro is the better board. Higher end VRM cooling solution as well as more fan headers, temperature sensors, SLI/Crossfire support, and a USB type C header. Edit: if anything it's the Elite that's price weirdly jisforjosh fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:14
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:One option is: the tdp figures are way out. It might be that the TDP numbers are accurate for scalar and SSE workloads but get blown the gently caress out on heavy AVX workloads, similar to what happened with Intel when Haswell added a full 256-bit pipeline. How much power do we reckon the 12-core will draw on Prime95, given Zen2 has no AVX offset 
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May 27, 2019 22:14
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TheFluff posted:GamersNexus had pricing info for at least the Gigabyte boards in their coverage: I watched the Master review by buildzoid and there's no way I'd pay $350 for that motherboard. What feature does it have to justify the price? It doesn't even have a 10g nic. For 350 I'd expect dual 10g nics as a bare minimum, and even then I probably wouldn't buy it because 10g isn't quite here yet at the consumer level and when it comes it will be cheaper. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:17
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So want to slam a 3900X into my Asrock X370 Taichi. Just need them to put out their P5.60 BIOS which was supposed to come out this month.
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May 27, 2019 22:21
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jisforjosh posted:The Pro is the better board. Higher end VRM cooling solution as well as more fan headers, temperature sensors, SLI/Crossfire support, and a USB type C header. Right. Looking at Z390 VRM charts though even the Z390 Elite is considered good enough for ~200W to the socket (9900K on air cooling in extreme AVX workloads, basically), with the rest of the product stack being for custom water loops and more exotic solutions. e: For comparison my 8700K at 4.9GHz with no AVX offset draws something like 175W when running P95, and that's as high as it goes. The 9900K is basically that with two more cores, so as a rough ballpark I figure it'd land somewhere around 225W. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:26 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 22:23
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Khorne posted:drat. I thought $180 for a not-x570 Taichi was steep. Looks like it's an true 12 phase VRM instead of a 6 phase doubler.
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May 27, 2019 22:24
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Rabid Snake posted:12 core is still pretty cool. I still feel dumb for buying the 9900k after all of the exploits. I mean I might have to turn off hyper threading. I just wished the lower end models hit 5 ghz I bought the 9900K early November 2018, so the moment the AMD competition arrives I am already using and playing the until then best gaming CPU for 8+ months, stable at 4,9 GHz allcore. So as an „early adopter“ I was glad I did not wait and betting on AMD „only“ closing the performance gaps many months later. It was the CPU and power I needed 7 mints ago, and it was worth it for 1440p gaming and Multiboxing. But right now I would indeed wait and not buy an 9900 again, if I can prolong the days and weeks of waiting and check the benchmarks and final retail prices. I would expect 20-40% markups on retail prices the first 2-5 weeks tho, at least in Germany.
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May 27, 2019 22:28
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Mr.PayDay posted:I guess it’s again all about your personal usecases/scenarios and the actual time.
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May 27, 2019 22:32
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repiv posted:You'll need to update the BIOS before the 3000 series chips will work, so for some boards that means you need a temporary 1000/2000 series chip to update. Is there a list of this or something to search for to find out? I tried Googling but all I got was results about updating the gen 1 boards for Zen+. Or if anyone knows firsthand of Mini-ITX boards that would support this.
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May 27, 2019 22:33
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Humerus posted:Is there a list of this or something to search for to find out? I tried Googling but all I got was results about updating the gen 1 boards for Zen+. Seems it's less common on AMD boards, I checked Asus and Asrocks AM4 ITX boards and none of them seem to have CPU-less flashing. Maybe AMD will do a repeat of this scheme though: https://www.techspot.com/news/73334-amd-give-ryzen-apu-customers-free-processor-help.html
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May 27, 2019 22:52
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Flashing the BIOS pretty much requires an installer or direct connection to the SPI bus with a programmer. The USB ones have a programmer on board that does this. Or well, based on my experience in working with BIOS code, that's how it would be done.
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May 27, 2019 22:56
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jisforjosh posted:Jesus what's with the ~$80 premium on the Pro version compared to the Z390 Pro at $160-190 PCIe 4.0 redrivers, one assumes.
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May 27, 2019 23:00
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Rabid Snake posted:12 core is still pretty cool. I still feel dumb for buying the 9900k after all of the exploits. I mean I might have to turn off hyper threading. I just wished the lower end models hit 5 ghz Do not feel dumb. You already have a CPU. The exploits are irrelevant as a consumer. If someone is running local code on your machine you are already completely owned. None of these new processors will be as good as a 9900k for gaming, even AMD's next generation after this probably won't peak out as well as a 9900k for gaming. With the enormity of the spike in motherboard prices, AMD will only really be beating Intel as a value proposition by having more plentiful and appealing midrange options.
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May 27, 2019 23:18
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The exploits are relevant because all the necessary mitigations reduce the performance of the CPU a great deal. Also, everyone is letting somebody else run local code on their machines: Through their browsers. But yes, don't feel bad about buying a 9900k.
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May 27, 2019 23:28
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40% performance hit is a huge amount. Mind you that's the biggest possible hit but still.
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May 27, 2019 23:30
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I guess it'll be a market segmentation feature to have PCIe 3.0 on B550, A520 and PCIe 4.0 on X570? That PCIe bandwidth test is a little odd. What kind of workloads would benefit from that test simulation? Storage is covered by Crystal Disk Mark AFAIK.
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May 27, 2019 23:30
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