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Hogama posted:With a heavy sigh, Naoki Yoshida announced that White Mage was being deleted from Final Fantasy XIV, and, to keep the balance, Black Mage and Scholar were, too. "So ends the Fifth Astral Era." The War of the Magi is finally over. Eorzea is free!
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May 28, 2019 21:13
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Cabbit posted:The War of the Magi is finally over. Eorzea is free! ...Free to be conquered by Garlemald at last 
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May 28, 2019 21:16
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Cabbit posted:The War of the Magi is finally over. Eorzea is free! Could it be Blue Mage's time to shine?!
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May 28, 2019 21:18
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Blue mage is an exclusive class in that it's the only mage left.
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May 28, 2019 21:20
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Technically all jobs are mages. Like Carpenters are just saw mages that use saw magickz to make impossible furniture.
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May 28, 2019 21:22
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TulliusCicero posted:...Free to be conquered by Garlemald at last At which point Skysteel "Second Amendment" Manufacturory swoops in and arms everyone, and FFXIV becomes Call of Duty Finder.
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May 28, 2019 21:23
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CeallaSo posted:If you still have Rakshasa gear, you can trade it in to the vendor in Rhalgr's Reach along with 7 Doman Reiyaku (which you buy for 100 Mendacity a pop) for 390 Yama gear. Not exactly worth building towards, but useful if you've already geared up your primary in Aug Scaevan and want to play as something else before ShB.
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May 28, 2019 21:45
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Cabbit posted:At which point Skysteel "Second Amendment" Manufacturory swoops in and arms everyone, and FFXIV becomes Call of Duty Finder. 
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May 28, 2019 21:46
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I wonder what an "ideal" healing model would look like in FFXIV, if they're gonna down the road of dumbing down healer DPS like the leaks are suggesting and people are getting up in arms about Like, if you wanted to design a healing model where honest healing isn't perceived as sitting on your hands for 80% of any fight. It probably involves trimming down the number of aoe heals (or at least making them target 3-4 people at most, maybe with some smart healing tech), upping mana costs for more expensive spells, and adding a few more cure -> free cure II cast type procs so you spend more time casting healing spells.
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May 28, 2019 21:48
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FactsAreUseless posted:This is sweet since I have Rakshasa weapons on my BLM and RDM, thanks! The most efficient way to do it is to check the AH for cheap rakshasa pants/chests that crafters are trying to offload before the expansion hits. You can sometimes snag them for as low as like, 50-100k gil if you're lucky. Just 2 is enough for a weapon, IIRC. Nice way to have 390 gear for the expansion, which should be relevant until level 73 to 75 in ShB.
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May 28, 2019 21:49
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Minrad posted:word on the street is that assize no longer deals damage. holy stun is gone too, apparently. RIP WHM lol Though those things do give it a pretty big advantage on dungeon runs.
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May 28, 2019 22:01
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Cat Army
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Mymla posted:Haha yeah imagine if they'd just delete whm like that. tbf scholar is getting absolutely gutted on aoe as well, and I think they at least rivaled whm in 4 man aoe ever since they brought back miasma II. seems like the goal is to bring all the healers down to the same level, rather than trying to bring whm up to sch/ast levels and then figuring out how to introduce another healer from there (also i'm absolutely bored waiting for job details and shb, would anyone be interested if i wrote out my ideas for a healer redesign)
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May 28, 2019 22:06
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Minrad posted:I wonder what an "ideal" healing model would look like in FFXIV, if they're gonna down the road of dumbing down healer DPS like the leaks are suggesting and people are getting up in arms about You could create a model where people are casting heals most of the time by reducing the cost and efficacy of direct healing (especially regeneration) spells, cutting the cast time of direct heals to 1.5 seconds, throwing the majority of OGCD healing out, and equipping healers with an expanded suite of low cooldown OGCD damage spells. Healers would spend most of their time casting heals to produce enough healing to recover from big spikes, which means honest healers would be doing someting productive with their time instead of wasting MP. Competent healers would be weaving OGCDs in between those healing spells. Healers would still have their regular cast time nukes, all of which would also be reduced to 1.5 cast time as well. Now I dunno if that'd be fun, but it would make honest healers more useful than they are now while still allowing good healers to contribute damage (potentially more than they do now, at a higher risk if you don't know the fight well).
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May 28, 2019 22:08
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That would basically be the triage model from WoW, and it's weird because everything's in place for it to function (it's basically what lilies were designed to work around), but FFXIV seems to be really obsessed with aoe and ogcd healing that's way too powerful right now so it just doesn't function. It seems like it would be really interesting with the sheer number of tools healers have, as well. I think there's a bit of fear about making healing too reactionary, which is understandable with the 2.5s gcd, but having two healers chain casting 8 man aoes is just way, way too efficient for the majority of healing spells to ever compete and anything that isn't "the group (or tank) goes to 5% health after a long cast" to be threatening or even chip into the healing output. Fixing these shortcomings and focusing on a triage model might be the goal of the healer reworks (simpler dps rotations won't matter if you're focused on squeezing mana and healing spells efficiently) and MP changes, but it'll take until the 28th to see if anything's really changing. Minera fucked around with this message at 22:21 on May 28, 2019 |
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May 28, 2019 22:16
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One good thing about AST: It's impossible to dumb down it's DPS rotation.
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May 28, 2019 22:26
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Gorelab posted:One good thing about AST: It's impossible to dumb down it's DPS rotation. Shush before they remove Gravity
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May 28, 2019 22:28
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Gorelab posted:One good thing about AST: It's impossible to dumb down it's DPS rotation. If Shadow Flare and Assize damage is gone, you can be sure Earthly Star is gonna lose its damage as well, plus I'm pretty sure minor arcana are changing too so no more slapping lord of crowns... 
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May 28, 2019 22:30
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If anyone's seen an honest healer actually try to heal through rough spots or recover from an emergency, they're not going to cut it if SE ramps up the healing throughput necessary to clear. Healing's fine as is. Maker healer's damage more interesting.
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May 28, 2019 22:37
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Ouhei posted:RIP WHM lol Yoship apparently abbhors the idea of a WHM fighting more than one thing at a time it seems. Welp, this might be the point where I switch to Scholar if that's the case.
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May 28, 2019 22:39
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I am Tidus laughing that as soon as I crafted my own Answers orchestrion roll, the new event says I can get a "free" one now. Hahaha.
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May 28, 2019 22:44
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Minrad posted:If Shadow Flare and Assize damage is gone, you can be sure Earthly Star is gonna lose its damage as well, plus I'm pretty sure minor arcana are changing too so no more slapping lord of crowns... Lord of Crowns is a steroid now, I think. 8%/4% damage increase for melee/ranged, but no Seal. Lady is presumably the opposite.
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May 28, 2019 22:47
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Minrad posted:That would basically be the triage model from WoW, and it's weird because everything's in place for it to function (it's basically what lilies were designed to work around), but FFXIV seems to be really obsessed with aoe and ogcd healing that's way too powerful right now so it just doesn't function. Also probably because it's one of the reasons that honest healing is such a thing, triage healing can be pretty stressful and some people just don't handle that well.
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May 28, 2019 22:49
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this is the only game where i've even heard of people calling it "honest healing" because in other games its just healing. no other mmo that i know of expects the healer to also keep up in dps.
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May 28, 2019 22:55
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Infidel Castro posted:Yoship apparently abbhors the idea of a WHM fighting more than one thing at a time it seems. I’d wait for all the info to come out tomorrow, bit and pieces don’t make sense but the whole picture might.
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May 28, 2019 23:04
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Kerrzhe posted:this is the only game where i've even heard of people calling it "honest healing" because in other games its just healing. no other mmo that i know of expects the healer to also keep up in dps. At least when I played WoW, honest healing wasn't a thing because you were busy healing. Easily could put 75% of your GCD time into healing, maybe more. In raid I could easily just GCD chain whatever downranked healing spell I'd be spamming and be both effective and efficient. If you honest heal then, you're still as engaged as a tank or dps should be. I'm not sure about other MMOs but I'd approach them in the same mindset Here you spend, maybe if I'm generous, 25% of your GCD time healing. If all you do is heal, you're flat out not putting the effort in that you'd expect your group to be putting in. An honest healer in FFXIV is being carried, is being lazy, and is being bad*. Same as a Dragoon that only hits one GCD every 8 seconds. Both cases deserve the derisiveness. To increase healer engagement, you either vastly increase the amount of damage going out, or encourage them to use that time to dps. The latter is riskier and more interesting in my opinion. And by not doing the former, you let lower skilled, lower geared, or less confident healers complete story content. It's a win/win. *exceptions of course when the tank is either poorly geared or mass pulling / whatnot, so a healer can stay occupied healing. Etc.
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May 28, 2019 23:06
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Uh, healers are absolutely maximizing dmg in raids/mythic dungeons in WoW, downranking hasn't been a thing for like 10 years the game has changed a bunch since then!
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May 28, 2019 23:09
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Firebert posted:Uh, healers are absolutely maximizing dmg in raids/mythic dungeons in WoW, downranking hasn't been a thing for like 10 years the game has changed a bunch since then! Then I'd expect a healer that sits on his rear end for 70% of the dungeon to be chided as an honest healer the same as here.
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May 28, 2019 23:09
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Then I'd expect a healer that sits on his rear end for 70% of the dungeon to be chided as an honest healer the same as here. you'd think so but lots of WoW players are fine with healers sitting with their thumbs up their asses and it really annoyed me going back to WoW after FFXIV
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May 28, 2019 23:32
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So what are the SHB tank changes?
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May 28, 2019 23:32
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I dunno if it was just me being bad, but I was surprised when I tried WoW very recently on a trial; when I went into a dungeon as a healer, I was yelled at for doing too much dps since people were getting so low on HP. I guess other MMOs have a lot more damage being thrown at people leading to healers just healing since there's no time to do anything else: FFXIV must be the exception where healing is so slow you need to do damage (starter dungeons as a SCH make it so you don't need to heal at all, just leave it to your fairy!). This might've just been me being in a really early dungeon in WoW and being underleveled, though, so don't take it as gospel.
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May 28, 2019 23:35
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Minrad posted:The most efficient way to do it is to check the AH for cheap rakshasa pants/chests that crafters are trying to offload before the expansion hits. You can sometimes snag them for as low as like, 50-100k gil if you're lucky. Just 2 is enough for a weapon, IIRC. Nice way to have 390 gear for the expansion, which should be relevant until level 73 to 75 in ShB. Unless you already have a Rakshasa weapon, in which case just trade it in for the needed tokens. It's 27 tokens / 7 reiyaku for a Yama weapon, which is exactly how many tokens a Rakshasa weapon nets you.
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May 28, 2019 23:39
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Minrad posted:word on the street is that assize no longer deals damage. holy stun is gone too, apparently. I could feel my heart dropping as I read this. R.I.P. green spin move, too versatile and lovable for this cruel world.
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May 28, 2019 23:42
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Darth Walrus posted:So what are the SHB tank changes? The most significant is that DPS/Defense stance is going away. Tank Stance now only increases your aggro gain while all tanks has a native +20% defensive boost from a trait. Dark Knight is getting a significant rework, Paladin appears to be getting a smaller one, Warrior looks about the same.
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May 28, 2019 23:42
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FutureCop posted:I dunno if it was just me being bad, but I was surprised when I tried WoW very recently on a trial; when I went into a dungeon as a healer, I was yelled at for doing too much dps since people were getting so low on HP. I guess other MMOs have a lot more damage being thrown at people leading to healers just healing since there's no time to do anything else: FFXIV must be the exception where healing is so slow you need to do damage (starter dungeons as a SCH make it so you don't need to heal at all, just leave it to your fairy!). This might've just been me being in a really early dungeon in WoW and being underleveled, though, so don't take it as gospel. People drop a lot faster in WoW than they do in XIV, damage is a bit less predictable, and if you get behind on healing getting caught up on it can be a problem due to most specs lacking in snappy burst healing. Most importantly, if people die they're probably staying dead. As a result, keeping people high is good insurance in that game.
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May 28, 2019 23:45
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ImpAtom posted:The most significant is that DPS/Defense stance is going away. Tank Stance now only increases your aggro gain while all tanks has a native +20% defensive boost from a trait. Interesting. I've been levelling DRK as my first proper tank, so it'll be fun to see how things get remixed. Yes, I've watched the job action video, so I know you get to fight alongside yourself (and I do hope that ability literally clones your current character with their current equipment), but I'm also curious about the other, more complex changes.
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May 28, 2019 23:54
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Cabbit posted:People drop a lot faster in WoW than they do in XIV, damage is a bit less predictable, and if you get behind on healing getting caught up on it can be a problem due to most specs lacking in snappy burst healing. Most importantly, if people die they're probably staying dead. As a result, keeping people high is good insurance in that game. I never did anything past raid finder and the occasional NM but resto druid had a lot of leeway. Heals over times and a lot of instant cast AoE could put out a lot of DPS for a healer and it was lots of fun. I wanted to get in to Disc priest but I could never click with it and the thing you cast on people so they're healed from your damage was too annoying to keep up with for me. Never had anyone complain when I DPS'd as a healer but WoW players are so volatile that I'm not surprised it can set them off even if the run goes perfectly
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May 29, 2019 00:06
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FutureCop posted:I dunno if it was just me being bad, but I was surprised when I tried WoW very recently on a trial; when I went into a dungeon as a healer, I was yelled at for doing too much dps since people were getting so low on HP. I guess other MMOs have a lot more damage being thrown at people leading to healers just healing since there's no time to do anything else: FFXIV must be the exception where healing is so slow you need to do damage (starter dungeons as a SCH make it so you don't need to heal at all, just leave it to your fairy!). This might've just been me being in a really early dungeon in WoW and being underleveled, though, so don't take it as gospel. FFXIV is absolutely the exception. nobody chides a healer in wow for doing 0 dps in a dungeon, raid, or anything really, EVEN IF you're pushing the hardest content. they're not expected to do damage, they're expected to save their mana for healing, especially these days. there's a couple specs that are an exception like discipline priests and fistweaver monks that have mechanics that promote dealing damage to boost heals or get mana back. but they'll never do nearly as much damage as a proper dps. Cabbit posted:Most importantly, if people die they're probably staying dead. As a result, keeping people high is good insurance in that game. this is another big difference, in wow you get a lot fewer rezzes. usually one battle rez, maybe 2 if you are in a bigger raid group, on a fairly long cooldown.
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May 29, 2019 00:08
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Minrad posted:word on the street is ... holy stun is gone W H A T
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May 29, 2019 00:19
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ImpAtom posted:The most significant is that DPS/Defense stance is going away. Tank Stance now only increases your aggro gain while all tanks has a native +20% defensive boost from a trait. Not just 20% dr but also a boost to the health and damage increases of vitality and strength respectively.
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May 29, 2019 00:26
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Failboattootoot posted:Not just 20% dr but also a boost to the health and damage increases of vitality and strength respectively. But also probably-RIP hilarious Warrior HP levels, so overall the whole expansion is a net negative imo
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May 29, 2019 00:28
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