|
I know it's totally tangential to the point you're making, but as I've said my memory isn't so fresh on Seed. How is that different from her typical look?
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 02:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:31 |
|
|
HitTheTargets posted:I know it's totally tangential to the point you're making, but as I've said my memory isn't so fresh on Seed. How is that different from her typical look? She's dressed a lot more plainly and her facial features actually are drawn differently. (Which is consistent even in SEED HD where everyone is horrifyingly on-model.) It contrasts with her faked image she is using a moment earlier which looks a lot younger/how she looks earlier in the series and is wearing the pop princess outfit. 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:01
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I think a lot of the blame rests on Destiny, which is honestly where a lot of SEED's worst personality traits got played up. I'm not going to argue that SEED is a hidden gem but it has more going for it than Destiny does where every character basically became their meme version. Sort of like Final Fantasy 7 vs the FF7 Extended Universe. she does pull two unstoppable robots and an entire warship out of absolutely nowhere, also the suits have magical force fields that stop n-jammers and thus that take away the need for energy management(though at least this part eventually bites them in the rear end when the villains get ahold of magical force field technology)
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:07
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:she does pull two unstoppable robots and an entire warship out of absolutely nowhere, also the suits have magical force fields that take away the need for energy management(though at least this part eventually bites them in the rear end when the villains get ahold of magical force field technology) Again, I think that's mostly Destiny talking. In SEED, the Freedom is a testbed next-generation robot (see; every Gundam upgrade ever) whose big gimmick is just being able to use nuclear power. Justice isn't even given to Athrun by Lacus, it's the other test unit that was given to Athrun to go and get Freedom back/destroy it which is again pretty standard Gundam logic. Eternal's kinda bullshit in that it's painted bright pink admittedly which would only happen if they intended it for Lacus, but it actually makes sense from a tech perspective. It's extremely lightly armed (like, less armed than most ZAFT ships) but designed for fast movement and to carry the heavy-rear end METEOR units. It's a support craft of which similar types are shown to exist earlier in the series, just... not bright pink. Now in Destiny she absolutely pulls magic bullshit super robots out of thin air. A new Freedom, a new Justice, and DOMs which are apparently the highest-end units ZAFT have and they come from ????.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:13
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Again, I think that's mostly Destiny talking. either one wouldn't be too big a problem but both of them plus the Eternal being specifically made to support them puts it over the top for me still not nearly as bad as Destiny though
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
Like with a lot of SEED, Destiny may be unfairly coloring my perceptions of Lacus.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:She's dressed a lot more plainly and her facial features actually are drawn differently. (Which is consistent even in SEED HD where everyone is horrifyingly on-model.) It contrasts with her faked image she is using a moment earlier which looks a lot younger/how she looks earlier in the series and is wearing the pop princess outfit. Is "horrifyingly on-model" a slip of the tongue or a dig at Seed's character design?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:24
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:either one wouldn't be too big a problem but both of them plus the Eternal being specifically made to support them puts it over the top for me Well, like i said, it makes sense when you consider the rest of ZAFT's force models. The entire idea behind how ZAFT functioned was to use fast hit and run tactics to get mobile suits in to tear poo poo apart, with their other ships designed for this as well. Their ships primarily existed to carry the supplies and modules necessary for GINNs (and later units) around. Freedom and Justice were prototypes of the next generation of ZAFT suits and the Eternal was going to be their corresponding carrier. It's just an evolution of what ZAFT was already doing. You can argue how nonsense it is but it's what was established as ZAFT's specific method of attack throughout the series. It's kinda bullshit and toyetic but to be honest that's something I think is just expected from Gundam. It's a series that began with a combining robot who had a jet that could attach to its rear end so it could fly and honestly it's never quite gotten away from that. Every protagonist unit group ends up getting some kind of angel investor who gives them a massively powerful personal upgrade. HitTheTargets posted:Is "horrifyingly on-model" a slip of the tongue or a dig at Seed's character design? The latter.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:24
|
|
|
Cool, cool.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:26
|
|
|
I'm watching Zeta with some friends right now and while I love it a lot the super weird stuff around Reccoa is really awful. Yeah she gets brain whammied, but the conversation leading up to her getting brain whammied is Fa yelling at the boys that Reccoa's a woman before she's a soldier and the entire scene is just people spouting nonsense that would be a lot better if every instance of "woman" was replaced with "human being" or "individual with feelings" or something to that effect instead. Beltorchika is awful after her intro but when she shows up again later she's good? Emma is rad? I think that some of the women characters aren't the worst makes it even more annoying that a bunch of the stuff around Reccoa is just a misogyny hell vortex. My friends think the fight choreography is good if there's something in the background to help orient yourself, if there's even a tiny bit of colony or something it's rad, but if its just the vastness of space then it sucks. The music is all amazing. Episode 33 where they go to visit the Axis ship is great. Love it.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:38
|
|
|
Shinjobi posted:I think the reason why people aren't sure about whether or not Wing was good with women is forgetting the bigger deal with Wing: everyone is absolutely batshit insane. Even the voices of reason are insane to a lesser degree. Hell, I think Hilde might have been the most sane person in the show and it takes her bumping into Duo to realize that "God, this whole Oz thing sucks and I really want none of it." if i have to be crazy to pull off shooting someone after dropping them from a plane midflight then I don't want to be sane
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 03:42
|
|
|
Merilan posted:if i have to be crazy to pull off shooting someone after dropping them from a plane midflight then I don't want to be sane Really wish I had a gif of this, but Google is failing me.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 04:35
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtI0Aal3C6w Who needs a gif when you've got this.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 04:45
|
|
|
yeah i just search youtube for 'the voice of general septum' when i need to cheer myself up
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 04:55
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:To get back onto the original point, for me at least the problem with Zeta is the beginning. Yes, there's character growth and all eventually, but Camille just starts at such a ludicrously stupid and unrelateable point that it just kills the immersion or any desire to watch more of. Like, Camille is the oldest of the mainline Gundam series protagonists at 17 (yes, I know Domon's older, but G Gundam really is its own thing), and yet is the most childish to such a ludicrous extend it's absurd. You don't reach that age with THAT much blatant acting out at a hair trigger without parents with significant pull - which he does not have. His parents were two of the head scientists on the Federation's new flagship MS project. I think they had pull in normal circumstances. Just not enough to keep from being killed by the Titans, who beat the poo poo out of one of the biggest war heroes alive for pretty much no reason. I would not be surprised if Kamille had gotten out of a lot in his younger years thanks to his family.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 07:06
|
|
|
in the first episode of zeta, kamille's rich parents bail him out of being arrested with their expensive lawyer after he physically assaulted an on duty military soldier. he literally gets off scott free from a pretty serious offense against probably the worst kind of authority you could possibly get in trouble with. his parents very explicitly have pull that they use to get him out of trouble. like a true teenager, kamille doesn't give a poo poo and upon being told that he's getting off scott free, immediately punches the officer that was interrogating him not 10 seconds previous in the face, and then hijacks a military vehicle on his way out the building. which, like, how can you not love that? ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 07:38 on May 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 07:34
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Again, I think that's mostly Destiny talking. Pretty sure the Eternal is just supposed to be ZAFT red as filtered through SEED's washed-out digipaint colour palette. Lunamaria's ZAKU has a very similar colour scheme, and her whole thing is being incredibly proud of her elite red uniform.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 07:56
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:in the first episode of zeta, kamille's rich parents bail him out of being arrested with their expensive lawyer after he physically assaulted an on duty military soldier. he literally gets off scott free from a pretty serious offense against probably the worst kind of authority you could possibly get in trouble with. his parents very explicitly have pull that they use to get him out of trouble. Oh, I absolutely loved that and probably would've enjoyed Zeta more if it kept that cackling sociopath as the protagonist instead of keeping all the teenage angst but with no real enjoyment of it. Kamille was loving laughing when he shot people in that episode, that sure never happens again. Which, thinking about it, Heero completely copies, huh. Laughing at kills at first and then just...nothing.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:35
|
|
|
Blaze Dragon posted:Oh, I absolutely loved that and probably would've enjoyed Zeta more if it kept that cackling sociopath as the protagonist instead of keeping all the teenage angst but with no real enjoyment of it. Kamille was loving laughing when he shot people in that episode, that sure never happens again. While he wasn't especially emotive about it, Mikazuki was probably the furthest we've delved into 'the main Gundam pilot is an absolute psychopath' territory. Io likely takes second place, although he's really just kind of a jerk.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:46
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:While he wasn't especially emotive about it, Mikazuki was probably the furthest we've delved into 'the main Gundam pilot is an absolute psychopath' territory. Io likely takes second place, although he's really just kind of a jerk. Mikazuki at least seemed cognizant of the fact that he was a Psychopath, and tried to direct himself into situatoins that at least did not actively harm his peers.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:49
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Mikazuki at least seemed cognizant of the fact that he was a Psychopath, and tried to direct himself into situatoins that at least did not actively harm his peers. Problem was that his peers kept going 'what would Mikazuki want me to do?' and harming themselves/each other for him.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:57
|
|
|
no one is mentioning kamille’s wildest line where he say he fights ideologies, not people which is maybe the thing i think about the most when it comes to him
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:05
|
|
|
I think Build had decent ladies, like sure they where all used for soem form of eyecandy and girlfriended up with the lads; but they also had clear own personalities and ambitions (mostly). The Assassination of Fumina by the Coward Build Fighters TRY is way worse on that front.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
dudermcbrohan posted:no one is mentioning kamille’s wildest line where he say he fights ideologies, not people which is maybe the thing i think about the most when it comes to him tomino characters are 60% ideology like how normal humans are 60% water
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:40
|
|
|
Gonna agree that Turn A is the best Gundam for quality female characters. SEED is deeply damaged by Destiny. SEED on it's own is a brightly colored rehash of 0079 for at least the first half of it's run with some 90s Gundam tropes thrown in which is honestly fine. If you just ignore all the lovely undoing that Destiny pulled, SEED has a relatively satisfying set of characters and has some cool unit designs. I personally love the design of the Freedom Gundam.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
dudermcbrohan posted:no one is mentioning kamille’s wildest line where he say he fights ideologies, not people which is maybe the thing i think about the most when it comes to him The Kamille line that always sticks with me is his desperate plea that violence isn't the answer while Wong kicks the poo poo out of him. I mean...this is Kamille saying violence is no answer. Also thinking back on SEED and the new voice cast, I remember how the original dub voice of Lacus made me think she w as about 10-years-old. The look and her initial personality didn't help that much but the voice really sounds so incredibly young. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aQuU5RLUY
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 17:24
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:While he wasn't especially emotive about it, Mikazuki was probably the furthest we've delved into 'the main Gundam pilot is an absolute psychopath' territory. Io likely takes second place, although he's really just kind of a jerk. I think the big difference between the two is that mikazuki legitamently doesn't value the lives of strangers and feels nothing when he kills someone, because he's a hosed up child soldier. (My personal reading) Io is actively cognizant of how hosed up his role as a soldier is, and taunts and jeers at his enemies as he kills them as a coping mechanism for recognizing their humanity but having to kill them anyway, he's playing up the role as a villain because he knows that's what he's been forced into. Two opposite sides of the "hosed in the head because you have to kill a ton of people" spectrum
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I think the big difference between the two is that mikazuki legitamently doesn't value the lives of strangers and feels nothing when he kills someone, because he's a hosed up child soldier. (My personal reading) Io is actively cognizant of how hosed up his role as a soldier is, and taunts and jeers at his enemies as he kills them as a coping mechanism for recognizing their humanity but having to kill them anyway, he's playing up the role as a villain because he knows that's what he's been forced into. Two opposite sides of the "hosed in the head because you have to kill a ton of people" spectrum I don't think it's accurate to say that Mika feels nothing - he's just incredibly good at compartmentalising. He'll do whatever hosed-up poo poo he needs to do, and then mull it over later when the shooting's stopped. We best see the process in action during and after the fight with the Brewers, and it's why he ends up lashing out at Orga on the train to Edmonton. He seems to legitimately hate who he is and what he does, but can't see any other future for himself, which is why he goes into that big self-destructive downward spiral in Season 2.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 20:04
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I don't think it's accurate to say that Mika feels nothing - he's just incredibly good at compartmentalising. He'll do whatever hosed-up poo poo he needs to do, and then mull it over later when the shooting's stopped. We best see the process in action during and after the fight with the Brewers, and it's why he ends up lashing out at Orga on the train to Edmonton. He seems to legitimately hate who he is and what he does, but can't see any other future for himself, which is why he goes into that big self-destructive downward spiral in Season 2. yeah while Mika is hosed up the real headcase of IBO is Orga, who is a decent leader strategically but insanely bad interpersonally everyone's like "ORGA GAVE US A REASON TO LIVE" without thinking "hey maybe that reason is kind of lovely?" Yinlock fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 20:20
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I don't think it's accurate to say that Mika feels nothing - he's just incredibly good at compartmentalising. He'll do whatever hosed-up poo poo he needs to do, and then mull it over later when the shooting's stopped. We best see the process in action during and after the fight with the Brewers, and it's why he ends up lashing out at Orga on the train to Edmonton. He seems to legitimately hate who he is and what he does, but can't see any other future for himself, which is why he goes into that big self-destructive downward spiral in Season 2. I'll admit my understanding of mikazuki is mostly informed by the first 9 episodes I watched before my adhd led me to stepping sway from the show and never picking it up again
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 20:36
|
|
|
The Notorious ZSB posted:Gonna agree that Turn A is the best Gundam for quality female characters. Lily Borjano is low key one of the smartest operators in any Gundam series, quietly taking notes then taking over, commanding ships on the front line and gleefully telling Guin to gently caress off when he makes his play.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 20:42
|
|
|
jackhunter64 posted:Lily Borjano is low key one of the smartest operators in any Gundam series, quietly taking notes then taking over, commanding ships on the front line and gleefully telling Guin to gently caress off when he makes his play. And watching Guin get dunked is very satisfying after they were telegraphing his heel turn for the better part of half the runtime.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I think the big difference between the two is that mikazuki legitamently doesn't value the lives of strangers and feels nothing when he kills someone, because he's a hosed up child soldier. (My personal reading) Io is actively cognizant of how hosed up his role as a soldier is, and taunts and jeers at his enemies as he kills them as a coping mechanism for recognizing their humanity but having to kill them anyway, he's playing up the role as a villain because he knows that's what he's been forced into. Two opposite sides of the "hosed in the head because you have to kill a ton of people" spectrum I don't think Io is actually crazy in the totally-brain-broken-serial-killer sense like Heero or Mikazuki at all. Mika and Heero are coldly detached and near-emotionless lizard people in what should be moments of legitimate emotional stress for normal people; Io reacts in a completely understandable but assholish way, which is pretty realistic for a person in his situation. It's as you say; his arrogant bluster and wild enjoyment of combat are coping mechanisms for an insane level of mental trauma. Dude watched his dad kill himself and then his lifelong home get turned into a floating cloud of scrap. There's a reason why his childhood friend Claudia is depicted shooting up drugs constantly; she's doing the exact same thing he is but in a different way.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:00
|
|
|
Mikazuki is one of the best gundam protagonists (or at least person that pilots the titular Gundam) in all of them. That universe is hosed up, and his mix of childlike wonderment and also zero hesitation to slaughter people sums it up p well. He does sort of know that killing people is bad, but he is also so lost without Orga that he will do everything he can to make Orga's dreams come true; and he takes it so far that even Orga thinks he goes too far at times.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:09
|
|
|
Zedd posted:Mikazuki is one of the best gundam protagonists (or at least person that pilots the titular Gundam) in all of them. to the detriment of both of them really IBO is a show about toxic friendships
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:09
|
|
|
Zedd posted:Mikazuki is one of the best gundam protagonists (or at least person that pilots the titular Gundam) in all of them. He also takes it so far that Orga's main motivation is that he's terrified of disappointing Mikazuki. Mika's both completely subordinate to his surrogate big brother's wishes and the single biggest driver of the plot.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:11
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:to the detriment of both of them really
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:11
|
|
|
Zedd posted:Oh deffo. You can tell that they are both better people because of eachother, but they are also very much worse off with eachother in other ways. I think the big irony of both is that neither is able to be the person who tells the other "no." Which is unfortunately really critical to friendship. It was why Biscuit was such an important character. He was closed to both Mika and Orga and could straight-up tell them no when nobody else would.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
Biscuit was basically the voice of reason. And was more or less exactly why everything started falling apart.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:31 |
|
|
Gearhead posted:Biscuit was basically the voice of reason. Don't remind me. Biscuit and Laufter deserved better.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 00:24
|
|