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Clarste posted:Despair can only be used in Astral Fire mode for whatever reason. it looks like it's basically gonna replace the last fire iv before going back to UI. i'm down with that
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May 30, 2019 01:20
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Alright, looks like I was mislead by old data from the Balance, we only overheat twice a minute.quote:Looking at MCH in a rather casual way, it looks very flashy and fun, optimization wise it’s a dumpster fire that needs to be fixed. I’m not really looking into potencies as they might be subject to change but there’s more we need to fix this job. From someone in the Balance, and I'm inclined to agree. Edit: Link to Balance guy's thoughts that I generally agree with. Ibblebibble fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 01:26
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overheating twice a minute sounds a bit rough, but otherwise i think that and pushing heat/battery to work more in tandem is nothing that can’t be fixed in patches optimal mch is destined to be a mess after a big rework. i think there’s a great base here that can be tweaked. edit: like i’m imagining having to skillfully line up my heat and battery gauges to deploy both queen and wildfire at the same time to match raid buffs and it feels good
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May 30, 2019 01:39
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What's the point of reprise anyway? Just clearing out some excess mana before your combo?
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May 30, 2019 01:43
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SirSamVimes posted:What's the point of reprise anyway? Just clearing out some excess mana before your combo? Movement phases or that, yeah: Might be handy for preventing you from capping out if you know a transition is coming up or something and you won't be able to do a full combo.
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May 30, 2019 01:46
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Elezen have extended life cycles so Alph and Alisaie are like 20 but haven't hit Elezen Puberty yet. I think the game timeline is very loosely 'real' time, i.e. ARR ended 4 years ago, HW ended 2 years ago, SB will have JUST ended when Shadowbringers launches.
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May 30, 2019 01:46
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Kaubocks posted:overheating twice a minute sounds a bit rough, but otherwise i think that and pushing heat/battery to work more in tandem is nothing that can’t be fixed in patches Apparently battery is incredibly hard to align well with anything, but I'll wait until I try it myself to see it.
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May 30, 2019 01:49
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SirSamVimes posted:What's the point of reprise anyway? Just clearing out some excess mana before your combo? You can dump some mana if your manafication comes up and you're over 50/50
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May 30, 2019 01:53
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Ibblebibble posted:Apparently battery is incredibly hard to align well with anything, but I'll wait until I try it myself to see it. If the main concern is that lining the robot up with Trick Attack is difficult then there are functionally no concerns, because that is some exceedingly high level optimization right there that I have never given a poo poo about in the past and plan to not give a poo poo about in the future. Like, surely the difference in overall DPS between getting your robot entirely inside TA and missing it entirely can't be that big. Even if the robot was something insane like 20% of your overall DPS, missing a 10% buff to that is hardly the end of the world.
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May 30, 2019 01:58
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Cabbit posted:If the main concern is that lining the robot up with Trick Attack is difficult then there are functionally no concerns, because that is some exceedingly high level optimization right there that I have never given a poo poo about in the past and plan to not give a poo poo about in the future. My worry is more that it doesn't seem to align nicely with any other part of your rotation, when a rotation that fell together perfectly constantly was what I liked about current MCH.
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May 30, 2019 02:04
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Ibblebibble posted:My worry is more that it doesn't seem to align nicely with any other part of your rotation, when a rotation that fell together perfectly constantly was what I liked about current MCH. You and I have clearly had much different MCH experiences. 
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May 30, 2019 02:05
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My casual idiot thoughts on the few jobs I play poorly and not at max level: NIN - Looks pretty good. I like the idea of the AOE combo and the new abilities all seem fun. I like the addition of charges to key abilities. Honestly surprised they kept Trick Attack since it seemed like they were at least considering going down the 'bring the player, not the job' homogenization route that WoW went down but I'm glad it's still there. Fun new toys but doesn't seem like playing one will be drastically different. BLM - Seems like more of the same honestly. No great playstyle differences, just new names on the nukes and a slightly different button order. Openers should be a bit easier with that ability that lets you constantly build umber ice outside of combat. AST - A little disappointing. I realize that balance was the one true card and trying to balance the game around random different card effects was impossible, but I liked that idea of randomly selecting cards and making the best with what you had. The new card system seems like it will surely be effective (mini balance every time, yay!) it just seems rather dry and uninteresting. I will say I do like the new spell effects (the solar system spinning around you is awesome) and Gravity going to level 45 is HUGE. Honestly the whole idea behind the AST kind of painted them in a corner. Clearly they can't balance a job and/or fights around RNG, and yet they designed a class around drawing and playing cards. About the healer thing. I don't know poo poo about high level raiding, parsing, or any of that stuff but in watching the videos for the DPS jobs I was thinking things like 'cool they added this! Ohhh sweet they added that! Wow, I can't wait to do that!'. When I watched the healer videos my reaction was more like 'Oh they changed that and moved that. Oh instead of doing this I do that. Well that was cool but what about that other thing I used to do?'.
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May 30, 2019 02:07
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Cabbit posted:You and I have clearly had much different MCH experiences. What can I say, 3 ammo high ping was perfectly consistent for me I could set my mechanics timers to when I used certain skills and vice-versa. Everything was also nicely aligned to be ready with WF.
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May 30, 2019 02:09
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Ibblebibble posted:Apparently battery is incredibly hard to align well with anything, but I'll wait until I try it myself to see it. i'd believe it, given what we currently know about the battery gauge. but again i see that as something that can be fixed pretty easily with minor numbers changes if it hasn't already been done on current unreleased builds. if they can eventually click battery into a place where you're reliably dumping your heat and battery at consistent times, it'll retain the bursty/clockwork identity mch currently has as far as two overheats, i hear two problems about these: 1) you press pretty much only heat blast for 16s every minute. that's kinda lame, but not a dealbreaker for me. maybe a bit repetitive and uninspired (side-eyes new delirium just ripping off inner release) but also i've already had a ton of wildfires that were nothing but cooldowns so, i think i'll live. 2) people with high ping can't reliably weave gauss/ricochet between every heat blast. that's a bigger problem but also... idk, it might just be because that's not a problem for me personally and i'm not much of a numbers guy, but i think it's such a very minor optimization thing? you could just dump all your gauss and ricochet before overheat? yeah, heat blast is going to fill them both back up to 3 charges each so "optimally" you missed out on some rolling charges but realistically that can only be like fractions of fractions of dps loss. i really don't think it's going to be a make or break problem for savage raiding. we already have high ping rotations to take our current lovely overheat into account and the difference is super minor. Kaubocks fucked around with this message at 02:20 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 02:14
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Kaubocks posted:i'd believe it, given what we currently know about the battery gauge. but again i see that as something that can be fixed pretty easily with minor numbers changes if it hasn't already been done on current unreleased builds. if they can eventually click battery into a place where you're reliably dumping your heat and battery at reliable times, it'll retain the bursty/clockwork identity mch currently has Yeah the true lol is that MCH has become even more high-ping unfriendly. I think the most cooldowns you need to do in a wildfire in 3 ammo high ping rotation is if you start off with 2 procced. Otherwise it's 3 cds per WF filled in with 2 and 3. Either way, I'm glad that SMN is my cutest caster glam, because new SMN looks like it has inherited the stuff from current MCH that I liked.
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May 30, 2019 02:18
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As someone who will hopefully be well enough to play Shadowbringers after missing out on Stormblood after 4.2, I'm gonna say I'm kind of eager to get back to "Samurai, but more."
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May 30, 2019 02:19
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oh the only-cooldown wildfires are purely because i hosed up ammo management somewhere along the way or need to just wildfire to get all my cooldowns rolling back on schedule; it's not ideal, but it's totally respectable damage-wise and something i've had to do more often than i like to admit
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May 30, 2019 02:20
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So I'm looking at this, and several things are weird. Like, this: quote:The new combo system for Heated shots is also bad as you can’t properly line up a Clean Shot for the Wildfire. It’s all over the place. Like, uh, what? Why does it matter? Wildfire's damage is now entirely disconnected from the damage you deal under it-- it only cares about whether or not you connect with a weapon skill. Using Clean Shot under it would be a bad idea anyway, because it has a 2.5 second recovery vs. Heat Blast's 1.5 second. Or this: quote:Summoning Automaton Queen every wildfire will help you increase your damage. How? Queen's weaponskills don't contribute to Wildfire, as noted by this person later on in their own document: quote:Then I also noticed how the Queen (pet) doesn’t affect our Wildfire Damage by comparing Videos from Larryzaur, Mr.Happy & Gamer Escape. Also, this is just absolutely arbitrary and subjective: quote:The biggest disappointments are that Air Anchor & Drill are tied to a GCD and not oGCDs. It feels absolutely weird and not good. .. and seems immediately contradicted by this: quote:Possible Band-aid fixes I'm also really not following how severe the ping problems are supposed to be for Overheat-- 1 GCD + 1 OGCD six times seems, like, perfectly doable at a 1.5 second GCD. Considering you can hold up to three charges of each, and there's no specific benefit for holding your charges for Wildfire or Overheat, it seems eminently plausible to dump all your Ricochet/Gauss Round charges before you Overheat. If you have six Heat Blasts under Overcharge, that's 90 seconds worth of cooldown reduction for GR and RC. Assuming you go in with your charges cleared, that should be more than enough room to only really need to pop off Gauss Round and Ricochet once or twice each during the entire Overheat. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 02:28 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 02:21
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my gut instinct is that i like the idea of all of MCH's bag of tricks not quite lining up evenly, though I'm oddly not sure why
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May 30, 2019 02:23
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All I know is that Gunbreaker looks extremely fun and will probably get me to finally start tanking seriously. I've wanted to tank for a while but I haven't really clicked with any of the existing tanks, but Gunbreaker looks like it's going to be extremely my poo poo. Also I really love the new boss theme.
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May 30, 2019 02:26
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Ciaphas posted:my gut instinct is that i like the idea of all of MCH's bag of tricks not quite lining up evenly, though I'm oddly not sure why Because it's a job that fires a giant fart gun at people. Everything being a little janky jives with the weird Edgar-esque esotericness it's now written all over with.
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May 30, 2019 02:30
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Gunbreaker is literally this comic
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May 30, 2019 02:35
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Ibblebibble posted:My worry is more that it doesn't seem to align nicely with any other part of your rotation, when a rotation that fell together perfectly constantly was what I liked about current MCH. We've found it We've found the One True Machinist
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May 30, 2019 02:36
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If I make a '/action verthunder' macro does the server explode trying to execute both spells with that name
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May 30, 2019 03:03
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So... the DNC rotation is 100% proc based? You just do the same 1-2 rotation forever until one of them procs, allowing you do do bigger and better moves that also have a chance of proccing better moves? So you have like a 1/8 chance of actually reaching the end of your combo. And then they have a cooldown which gives you all the procs at once, encouraging you to then do your rotation backwards so you don't waste procs? Which is pretty funny. Edit: Wait, not really, you'd just do all your empowered moves in a row and stock up on feathers.
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May 30, 2019 03:10
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Clarste posted:So... the DNC rotation is 100% proc based? You just do the same 1-2 rotation forever until one of them procs, allowing you do do bigger and better moves that also have a chance of proccing better moves? So you have like a 1/8 chance of actually reaching the end of your combo. It sounds like it's similar to Red Mage.
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May 30, 2019 03:13
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So I guess with SMN, are we pretty much doing DWT then Demi-Bahamut, DWT changes to Firebird Trance and comes off of cooldown in ~30 seconds, then FBT with simultaneous Demi-Phoenix, repeat when DWT comes back off of cooldown in ~40 seconds? And with Energy Drain, we're fitting in what... 4 Festers per minute roughly? MechaX fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 03:14
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Cabbit posted:So I'm looking at this, and several things are weird. Like, this: I'll just reiterate what I said in the Balance after this post for the sake of the thread: It's because to get WF out in a timely manner you need to interrupt a 123 combo every so often. quote:Or this: Yeah Queen counting towards WF has been a in a bit of a flux of confirmed/denied for a few hours. Fair enough criticism. Looks like it's firmly in denied now. quote:Also, this is just absolutely arbitrary and subjective: I don't think those two suggestions were meant to be implemented together. I also think that it would be cool and good if drill/anchor became oGCD weaponskills like Empyreal, so that we can fit in more weaponskills during WF and have a bit more button variety. But like you said, it's subjective. quote:I'm also really not following how severe the ping problems are supposed to be for Overheat-- 1 GCD + 1 OGCD six times seems, like, perfectly doable at a 1.5 second GCD. Considering you can hold up to three charges of each, and there's no specific benefit for holding your charges for Wildfire or Overheat, it seems eminently plausible to dump all your Ricochet/Gauss Round charges before you Overheat. You really want to dump the charges as fast as possible to keep DPS up. I think the way it works out is that during parts of the rotation you have overheat phases near-back-to-back so you can't save them at all. Ping is a massive issue because you have to fit that final 6th heat blast into the last 0.5s of overheat which is near impossible with high ping.
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May 30, 2019 03:18
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ImpAtom posted:It sounds like it's similar to Red Mage. Well, except for the part where you build up to a big finisher on Red Mage. For Dancer, your big finishers just come like clockwork from their own separate cooldowns. I guess it's not a huge difference though.
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May 30, 2019 03:20
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Leofish posted:Yeah, I think Seiferguy's edits basically coined the term. I don't know if anyone outside of us uses it. I can't remember if people were using it before but the Kellies really brought it into the common lingo. from many pages back, but kelly edits are awesome and I still want more. I need to download photoshop and poo poo again at some point so I can contribute.
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May 30, 2019 03:20
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MechaX posted:So I guess with SMN, are we pretty much doing DWT then Demi-Bahamut, DWT changes to Firebird Trance and comes off of cooldown in ~30 seconds, then FBT with simultaneous Demi-Phoenix, repeat when DWT comes back off of cooldown in ~40 seconds? Yeah, it's Trance-Egi-Demi-Egi-TranceDemi and you can use your energy drains however you like. In between your big stuff you use Egi assaults to force procs on ruin IV.
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May 30, 2019 03:21
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re: that quote about savage drops, when they say coffer they mean the chest that appears when you kill the boss, not an item you open up. Coffers already give you a set thing based on your class, what it sounds like is opening a chest after killing the boss won't give you ninja pants if you don't have a ninja in the group. I kinda wish this was a thing that was just for during prog, and when they unlock drops you can get whatever from it so you can more easily fill out alt classes.
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May 30, 2019 03:25
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Clarste posted:So... the DNC rotation is 100% proc based? You just do the same 1-2 rotation forever until one of them procs, allowing you do do bigger and better moves that also have a chance of proccing better moves? So you have like a 1/8 chance of actually reaching the end of your combo. BRD has you spamming heavy shot to fish for procs, and every thirty seconds you change songs and refresh straight shot and your dots. So it's not that outlandish.
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May 30, 2019 03:33
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It would be cool if all the ast cards had some minor effect in addition to the + damage so there was a bit more room to optimize. Like, maybe, 5% damage reduction, a 5% move speed bonus, that sort of thing. You're still primarily putting +damage on melee or range, but you can consider about -who- you're gonna do it and feel like you're optimizing something.
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May 30, 2019 03:37
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Looking through the scholar changes, it looks like theyre gutting fairy healing and DOTs in exchange for more instant potency, a better adlo shield, and dissipation not wasting GCDs. Oh and a chain stratagem nerf. Losing miasma and shadowflare sucks since juggling plates is half the fun of arcanist classes, bane sucked rear end for an entire expansion so who cares, and I think the idea with axing energy drain/the fairy stuff is forcing you to use dissipation and recitation more often I can see it being fine if content requires you to spend more GCDs healing than before (especially since the fairies cant carry as hard) so I dont understand what all the doom and gloom is about
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May 30, 2019 03:46
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Control Volume posted:I can see it being fine if content requires you to spend more GCDs healing than before (especially since the fairies cant carry as hard) so I dont understand what all the doom and gloom is about I mean, you answered your own question. quote:Losing miasma and shadowflare sucks since juggling plates is half the fun of arcanist classes There's no concerns about the effectiveness of SCH, it's about how it feels to play, in particular since a large chunk of the game isn't spent in current expansion content.
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May 30, 2019 03:55
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Veev posted:Yeah, it's Trance-Egi-Demi-Egi-TranceDemi and you can use your energy drains however you like. In between your big stuff you use Egi assaults to force procs on ruin IV. I am extremely confused by Firebird Trance. Is it an entirely separate new ability you learn at 72, or does it replace Dreadwyrm Trance after you summon Demi-Bahamut? IE: Does it share a cooldown with DWT? The tooltips don't clarify this at all.
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May 30, 2019 03:55
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Saigyouji posted:I mean, you answered your own question. Brutally destroying the fairies and forcing you to heal more is at all levels tho
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May 30, 2019 03:56
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Embrace isn't actually handling the majority of healing in current content though, since it was nerfed in 4.0 anyway. It's Excog, Indom, and Lustrate doing the heavy lifting. The main fairy skill that sees use is Whispering Dawn, which hasn't changed at all, with the occasional Fey Union thrown in for specific situations.
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May 30, 2019 03:59
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Clarste posted:I am extremely confused by Firebird Trance. Is it an entirely separate new ability you learn at 72, or does it replace Dreadwyrm Trance after you summon Demi-Bahamut? IE: Does it share a cooldown with DWT? The tooltips don't clarify this at all. It shares a CD with and temporarily replaces DWT. After Bahamut is done DWT is replaced with FBT, which immediately summons Phoenix. After that's over, it goes back to being DWT and you start over.
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May 30, 2019 03:59
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