Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

lofi: Apr 2, 2018

TheIncredulousHulk posted:

I will die on the hill of "from the jump they should have skipped ahead 50-100 years and picked up with a brand new story that can allude to the original trilogy but otherwise allows the victory of Luke and the gang to stand for a while and lets you make a clean break to do your own thing"

Like you could have the droids still around, maybe Chewy, the Falcon, Luke's lightsaber, poo poo like that, but just simply have everyone be dead outside of maybe bringing back Luke and Yoda to do blue ghost duty. It'd make the story feel a lot less inbred at least

Yeah, I'm sold on that. Let them stay heroes, let their victory have meant something, and get a nearly clean slate. I mean, if they still wanted it, Kylo fetishising Vader would make even more sense if there was a bit of age for a myth to build up.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:24

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 10:01

504: Feb 2, 2016; by R. Guyovich

TheIncredulousHulk posted:

I will die on the hill of "from the jump they should have skipped ahead 50-100 years and picked up with a brand new story that can allude to the original trilogy but otherwise allows the victory of Luke and the gang to stand for a while and lets you make a clean break to do your own thing"

Like you could have the droids still around, maybe Chewy, the Falcon, Luke's lightsaber, poo poo like that, but just simply have everyone be dead outside of maybe bringing back Luke and Yoda to do blue ghost duty. It'd make the story feel a lot less inbred at least

Many many many moons ago I said: "There is no way there are going to make the new emperor of a star wars series an absolute nobody, he will be connected to the old movies in some way, I think he's Darth Plagus, ill die on this hill"

I wonder what condition my corpse is in.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:26

TheIncredulousHulk: Sep 3, 2012

TheIncredulousHulk posted:

The chemistry's great and the individual scenes work in a vacuum but the problem is there's not enough of it. One of the biggest, gayest effortposts I wrote in a bigger and gayer version of this GBS thread was explaining how I thought it could have been improved, I'll try to find it and repost

here we go

me lol posted:

dang it. I will try not to get overly fanfictiony which is difficult because we're talking about filling in gaps but here goes

The short version is that the shared history of Luke and Kylo is never dramatized on-screen or really even talked about outside the attempted Rashomon moment of attempted murder. I think a big reason, maybe the biggest reason, for the NOT MY LUKE takes is this. The last time we saw him was ROTJ, risking his life to redeem his awful Space Nazi dad. It's not that it's impossible to believe that Luke would ever consider offing Kylo in his sleep, but the only reasoning Luke gives for this was "I sensed he was real bad." What does that mean to anybody watching? We can't see or hear Luke's force senses. It's deeply unpersuasive. Now if you show a scene or have Luke tell a little story giving an example of this growing darkness and the fracturing of their relationship and why murdering Kylo seems like the only way(especially if it was coupled with something that shows how poorly suited Luke is for authority to help explain why he approaches Vader and Kylo so differently), the character transition would be much easier to buy. It's like marking a pair of dots far away from each other on a piece of paper. Your eyes might struggle to draw a line between them, but if you add another dot or two in the middle, it becomes much easier to see the line, right? Without it, yeah, Luke just seems like a huge rear end in a top hat. "I changed my mind at the last minute" isn't really all that different from Kylo's version of events anyway.

On Kylo's end of it, the movie gets away with more than it probably should just on account of Adam Driver's performance, but I had to double check that I hadn't gone to take a piss in the middle of watching it because it seemed like at least one entire scene was missing. I don't normally consciously notice stuff like this until I've had some time to think about it afterwards, so it was really jarring for me. Two things stuck out to me in particular as being absent:

1) A scene where Kylo tells a little story or has a flashback about his training under Luke that offers some justification or narrative to his fall that illustrates his actual motivation for it(beyond his grandpappy being a famous Space Nazi with a cool helmet) and provides an example of Luke's failure as a teacher BEFORE the moment he decides to kill Kylo. It doesn't have to be exactly that, but it would add more context to the confrontation between them at the end and give it more dramatic weight, because it doesn't actually have much(which I think is why people complain about the projection part). It would also smooth out the arc of Kylo's relationship with Rey, which brings me to the other obviously missing part...

2) Where the gently caress was the vision Rey was talking about? We don't see a single second of it, so we can't get a cohesive emotional read on anything that's happening between them until Kylo aces Snoke. Rey's only real impetus to see him as human in the first place is his "my uncle tried to murder me" story, which she has no reason to believe given Kylo killed her mentor and coma'd her friend. Don't give me that "the Force told her Luke was lying" because we can't see the loving Force. So Kylo and Rey's connection already feels too abrupt, and then Rey just bails on the dude everyone spent all last movie looking after spending the first half of this one harassing him into training her, and her only justification for this is "I saw him turn good, in the future." They just look at each other intensely in the scene where she has it, and you don't even know what's happening in it until Rey explains it after beating up Luke a few minutes later. As a result, it ends up feeling like she goes to Snoke's ship because that's where everyone else is and the movie needs her to be there to start wrapping things up. The tension in the throne-room scene ends up getting hamstrung because of this too, because without having seen any part of the vision, we can't really calibrate our fears and expectations for the confrontation in a way that isn't vague and muddled. That scene is constructed such that it expects you to be like "Oh no, was Rey wrong? Did she misunderstand the vision?" but since we don't have any details to the vision's contents, we can't actually make a judgment ourselves about her interpretation of it, so Snoke's "lol I did the vision, I tricked you" reveal falls completely flat. That reveal can work in one of two ways, either dramatic irony(the audience knows or suspects Rey is wrong and Snoke validates our dread) or as a surprise reversal(the audience invests in the idea that Rey is right and Snoke has tricked us with the vision as well as Rey) but instead neither of them happen. It's not the fault of the throne-room scene, it's the fault of the earlier poo poo for not setting up the dramatic mechanics in play.

give me my drat baconator now

tldr is they needed to show more poo poo happening on-screen instead of just making references to it in dialogue

# ? May 29, 2019 23:29

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

So much of the plot writing in these films felt like the writers and the studio wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Like you can�t have the empire be defeated but still be this super powerful villain. Nor can you have a a brand new original cast put into a plot where all the originals help them find the original hero from the first films, nobody is gonna give a poo poo about the new cast if that happens.

In retrospect given the extent to which they used the original cast this trilogy actually should�ve been.

1. Rebel has formed government and is stamping out the old last ditches of the empire, but some key event happens that turns the tides. Like say the rebels had a giant ship and the empire smuggled plans on how to destroy it and executed that plan.

2. Former empire continues to gain traction thanks to Kylo being a charismatic leader, Han comes out of retirement out of guilt and spends the film searching for Luke.

3. Giant rear end finale with the LOTR second film battle that we�ve seen rehashed in every loving fantasy film ever since.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:31

lofi: Apr 2, 2018

I mean, they could have made a movie about Luke sucking as a teacher and slowly losing his pupil to the dark side but :effort:

_{_{Also it wouldn't have enough action scenes for The Board}}

# ? May 29, 2019 23:34

Bogus Adventure: Jan 11, 2017; More like "Bulges Adventure"

I remember another reviewer saying that Luke killing Kylo would mean betraying and destroying his relationship with the two people he was closest to, Han and Leia. Having Luke jump to that point without showing the process leading to that conclusion is really sloppy storytelling.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:39

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Sorry guys they just really didn't have time to develop the Luke/Kylo rift in between 40 minutes of Prequel Casino scenes.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:41

pop fly to McGillicutty: Feb 2, 2004; A peckish little mouse!

I just can't stress enough that there is a real character named Therm Scissorpunch.

He's a lobster man.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:43

Vim Fuego: Jun 1, 2000; Ultra Carp

I propose a new gang tag: Mark's Milkers

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? May 29, 2019 23:43

504: Feb 2, 2016; by R. Guyovich

pop fly to McGillicutty posted:

I just can't stress enough that there is a real character named Therm Scissorpunch.

He's a lobster man.

gently caress me, you're not kidding.

# ? May 29, 2019 23:44

Bogus Adventure: Jan 11, 2017; More like "Bulges Adventure"

Vim Fuego posted:

I propose a new gang tag: Mark's Milkers

Seconded

# ? May 29, 2019 23:44

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

Vim Fuego posted:

I propose a new gang tag: Mark's Milkers

👍

# ? May 29, 2019 23:47

TheIncredulousHulk: Sep 3, 2012

pop fly to McGillicutty posted:

I just can't stress enough that there is a real character named Therm Scissorpunch.

He's a lobster man.

I really wish you hadn't told me this

# ? May 29, 2019 23:53

Fur20: Nov 14, 2007; すご▞い！
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね！

Vim Fuego posted:

I propose a new gang tag: Mark's Milkers

you have my sword

# ? May 29, 2019 23:54

Voting Floater: May 19, 2019

pop fly to McGillicutty posted:

I just can't stress enough that there is a real character named Therm Scissorpunch.

He's a lobster man.

Wookieepedia posted:

Therm Scissorpunch, a name he likely gave himself, was a male Nephran who lived in the galaxy during the reign of the Galactic Empire. He frequented the card tables on the planet Vandor. A particularly sore loser, he relied on his fearsome appearance to intimidate his opponents. He had enhanced his fighting prowess with a sharpened shank implanted in his claw. In 10 BBY, Scissorpunch sat at a gambling table next to the famous smuggler Lando Calrissian.

Y'see, he called himself Therm like Lobster Thermidor, because he's a lobsterman. He named himself after a cooked lobster recipe because he loving hates himself and wishes he could be boiled alive. He chose the surname Scissorpunch because he likes punching people with his scissorlike claws, which he's made even more scissorlike by sticking a shank in them.

If Disney had bothered including this dude in all their promo material, maybe someone would have actually gone to see Solo?

# ? May 30, 2019 00:03

Bogus Adventure: Jan 11, 2017; More like "Bulges Adventure"

Gotta get that Therm Scissorpunch origin movie made

Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 30, 2019

# ? May 30, 2019 00:07

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

TheIncredulousHulk posted:

I will die on the hill of "from the jump they should have skipped ahead 50-100 years and picked up with a brand new story that can allude to the original trilogy but otherwise allows the victory of Luke and the gang to stand for a while and lets you make a clean break to do your own thing"

Like you could have the droids still around, maybe Chewy, the Falcon, Luke's lightsaber, poo poo like that, but just simply have everyone be dead outside of maybe bringing back Luke and Yoda to do blue ghost duty. It'd make the story feel a lot less inbred at least

This is especially valid because KoToR, the prequels, and all The Old Republic poo poo firmly established that technology in the Star Wars universe is fundamentally static and no one cares, they'll still buy it because lightsabers and spaceships.

504 posted:

I wonder what condition my corpse is in.

Dead and gay as ever, but you're posting here so literally no one noticed.

504 posted:

gently caress me, you're not kidding.

Star Wars EU lore is loving bottomless. I'm pretty sure our Earth, Middle-Earth, and Jack Vance's Dying Earth are all somehow canon in there.

TheIncredulousHulk posted:

tldr is they needed to show more poo poo happening on-screen instead of just making references to it in dialogue

I agree that more of the Kylo/Luke/Rey plot would have been wonderful. You can tell that's where Rian Johnson was most interested, and the entire Finn plot was studio-directed. The Poe plot worked, but it was the bridge too far. Poe's plot needed to be something much more conventional, heroic, and satisfying to counter-act the weirder stuff Luke was doing, not a morality play on trusting your surrogate Mom's friends.

# ? May 30, 2019 00:07

Just Chamber: Feb 10, 2014; WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!

The White Dragon posted:

you have my sword

and my titty milk bottle

# ? May 30, 2019 00:15

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Bogus Adventure posted:

I remember another reviewer saying that Luke killing Kylo would mean betraying and destroying his relationship with the two people he was closest to, Han and Leia. Having Luke jump to that point without showing the process leading to that conclusion is really sloppy storytelling.

"So in conclusion, victory is finally here. I know you've all sacrificed a great deal. Many of you lost your livelihoods, your homes, some even your planets. Multiple planets. ..a lot of planets. Many of us were injured, or lost friends and loved ones. The final death toll is yet to be counted and may never be fully realized due to the horrible breadth and scope of billions of lives lost in this horrific struggle as countless worlds were torn asunder by war and famine. Many of you were enslaved and tortured and still bear the scars of those wounds, both inside and out. They may never heal. But today is a new day for the galaxy to begin to, and it can now that I've peacefully stopped Kylo Ren because I didn't want to hurt his mom and dad's feelings about me. Also they're both dead now too. Anyhow thanks."

--Victory over the Empire Day transmission, General and Grand Jedi Master Luke Skywalker.

# ? May 30, 2019 00:33

504: Feb 2, 2016; by R. Guyovich

Just Chamber posted:

and my titty milk bottle

and my continuing sense of disappointment.

# ? May 30, 2019 00:33

pop fly to McGillicutty: Feb 2, 2004; A peckish little mouse!

Just Chamber posted:

and my titty milk bottle

And my punchy scissors

# ? May 30, 2019 01:04

lofi: Apr 2, 2018

pop fly to McGillicutty posted:

I just can't stress enough that there is a real character named Therm Scissorpunch.

I'll see your Scissorpunch and raise you a Luuke. And honestly, I doubt that's the bottom of the barrel. In the SW universe, 'Therm Scissorpunch' is the equivalent of 'Joe Smith'

e: When they got to Luuuke even the writers were taking the piss.

lofi fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 30, 2019

# ? May 30, 2019 01:08

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

Bogus Adventure posted:

I remember another reviewer saying that Luke killing Kylo would mean betraying and destroying his relationship with the two people he was closest to, Han and Leia. Having Luke jump to that point without showing the process leading to that conclusion is really sloppy storytelling.

That's the dumbest thing I've read today and I read a listicle on the 9 secrets about meatless meat I was apparently afraid to ask.

I mean yeah Luke should have killed Kylo, but I honestly got the impression he couldn't. He was just there to stall for time and finish his arc by becoming the Luke Skywalker of legend again, even if it was just a moment.

# ? May 30, 2019 01:09

St_Ides: May 19, 2008

lofi posted:

I'll see your Scissorpunch and raise you a Luuke. And honestly, I doubt that's the bottom of the barrel. In the SW universe, 'Therm Scissorpunch' is the equivalent of 'Joe Smith'

Is everyone just going to ignore Kit Fisto?

# ? May 30, 2019 01:12

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

What was that shady alien guys name? Douche Baggano? Slea Z'bag?

# ? May 30, 2019 01:12

lofi: Apr 2, 2018

You really gonna have to narrow it down some.

Related, I'd forgotten how bad Watto the-not-jewish-stereotype-honest was:

At least Disney have managed to crawl over that bar.

# ? May 30, 2019 01:17

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

I still can't believe they got away with Watto.

# ? May 30, 2019 02:11

Vim Fuego: Jun 1, 2000; Ultra Carp

How do you get a gang tag? Buy it? PM a mod?

# ? May 30, 2019 02:16

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Watto's Vatos

# ? May 30, 2019 02:20

Bogus Adventure: Jan 11, 2017; More like "Bulges Adventure"

Poe's Hoes

# ? May 30, 2019 02:33

Bogus Adventure: Jan 11, 2017; More like "Bulges Adventure"

Solo's Cholos

# ? May 30, 2019 02:34

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Leia's Playas

# ? May 30, 2019 02:35

FeculentWizardTits: Aug 31, 2001

Rose's Broses

# ? May 30, 2019 02:44

Damo: Nov 8, 2002; The second-generation Pontiac Sunbird, introduced by the automaker for the 1982 model year as the J2000, was built to be an inexpensive and fuel-efficient front-wheel-drive commuter car capable of seating five.; Offensive Clock

Chomp8645 posted:

Sorry guys they just really didn't have time to develop the Luke/Kylo rift in between 40 minutes of Prequel Casino scenes.

this really says it all

is there a single not dumb person who watched that movie and is glad that like a quarter of it was dedicated to the pointless and bad casino poo poo. just laughable how much effort and money and time went into filming that garbage that took away from the actual story that they could have told, as weak as it might have still been.

# ? May 30, 2019 02:54

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

Finn didn't want to pay for space parking

# ? May 30, 2019 03:04

its all nice on rice: Nov 12, 2006; Sweet, Salty Goodness.; Buglord

Damo posted:

this really says it all

is there a single not dumb person who watched that movie and is glad that like a quarter of it was dedicated to the pointless and bad casino poo poo. just laughable how much effort and money and time went into filming that garbage that took away from the actual story that they could have told, as weak as it might have still been.

Do you remember BB-8 shooting coins like he's a little cannon?! XD

# ? May 30, 2019 03:23

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

Damo posted:

this really says it all

is there a single not dumb person who watched that movie and is glad that like a quarter of it was dedicated to the pointless and bad casino poo poo. just laughable how much effort and money and time went into filming that garbage that took away from the actual story that they could have told, as weak as it might have still been.

I am less mad at this star war than many but yeah the casino planet was plot death

# ? May 30, 2019 03:36

Jose Oquendo: Jun 20, 2004; Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a boring movie

Bbbbut the movie had to prove the point that rich people are bad.

Or what it both sides are sorta bad?

# ? May 30, 2019 03:39

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Jose Oquendo posted:

Bbbbut the movie had to prove the point that rich people are bad.

Or what it both sides are sorta bad?

Two sides there are.

The gooood........

...

*Fart slidewhistle*

... And the other siiiide

# ? May 30, 2019 03:47

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 10:01

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Vim Fuego posted:

How do you get a gang tag? Buy it? PM a mod?

buy a new avatar for yourself, paste in your existing av and append the picture to the bottom.

# ? May 30, 2019 04:06

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