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Extremely pro Guaidó interview/story in npr this morning including some cheerleading for us invasion via claiming more and more Venezuelans support it. Also claiming popular support for Guaidó and that he's "winning the popularity contest"
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May 30, 2019 13:13
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fnox posted:Hahahahahahaha Judging by his post history, I think he's having a dig at Telesur here.
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May 30, 2019 13:27
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Darth Walrus posted:Judging by his post history, I think he's having a dig at Telesur here. Obviously. But thats not to forget there are a ton of maduro apologists that post Telesur uncritically and say that its just the same as the NYT.
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May 30, 2019 14:07
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brugroffil posted:Also claiming popular support for Guaidó and that he's "winning the popularity contest" Christ, what a low bar to jump. My dog could do that. At least it is willing to share it's food, judging by the small rodents she brings me.
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May 30, 2019 14:10
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536 posted:Obviously. But thats not to forget there are a ton of maduro apologists that post Telesur uncritically and say that its just the same as the NYT. of course not, the nyt is worse
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May 30, 2019 14:28
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dirty lousy tramp posted:of course not, the nyt is worse remember that time the NYT put out a video opinion piece from the daughter of a pre-chavez official, who was last in the country at age three, about how Maduro Must Go and credited her as a "Venezuelan-American Comedian" it was great, she established her anti-coup bona fides by saying "my spirit animal is Ruth Bader Ginsberg in yoga pants" before explaining why Trump, Bolton, and Abrams only wanted what was best for Venezuelans.
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May 30, 2019 17:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:remember that time the NYT put out a video opinion piece from the daughter of a pre-chavez official, who was last in the country at age three, about how Maduro Must Go and credited her as a "Venezuelan-American Comedian" And also suggesting that everyone opposed to a U.S. intervention is white and racist.
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May 30, 2019 18:16
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GreyjoyBastard posted:for that matter he suggests a couple of ways in which we and our fellow leftists could have supported the suffering people without even necessarily saying the PSUV was bad Where? Food drives and donations? But people *are* doing those things. I've donated some meager amount to aid groups myself but hey I don't really make poo poo all as far as income, either. I'm just not really interested in boasting about what money I give to various causes or goons. With all respect all I can really see is an argument for US intervention on the assumption that the alternatives presented, Chinese enslavement or Maduro continuing to rule, would be even worse. "Do something, anything" is pretty much meaningless. Sorry but what does this mean? Like we could firebomb Caracas and level the place and that'd be cool because hey we did something? What is it that you actually want? US military intervention? quote:Like loving unfortunately, the only help Venezuelans have gotten thus far has been from center right governments, like the democratic visa in Chile helping refugees become regular migrants, or similar processes which exist now in Spain, Colombia, Peru. Guess loving what? The Venezuelan refugee crisis is real and how white or privileged you may think these people are doesn’t matter, they need help. And I think the way the US is handling refugees and immigrants is inhuman and disgusting and I'd obviously support helping VZ refugees. We could definitely be doing more on that front but I don't really unilaterally control what Trump and Co do, unfortunately. If anything the US handling of the refugee crisis makes me extremely wary that they are going to do anything good at all with regards to an intervention. They already demonstrate they give 0 shits about you and would rather see you machine gunned at the border so... e: And look this might be a bit callous and all but since you're angry about the Left here is a Right-wing point of view for you: why should our young kids go fight and die in South American jungles to fix a domestic Venezuelan problem? I'm fuckin' tired of seeing dead teenagers come back to San Diego in pine boxes maybe fix your own poo poo idk. The US tried to *do something* and utterly failed because it could garner 0 support from the public or military (which doesn't exactly inspire confidence in any future attempts to help). Here's what conservatives in the USA think about you: "they should fix their own countries instead of trying to come here." They say it all the time. I heard someone say it two days ago. Rail against the leftists in the USA (who don't even control the gov't) more though. ee: Like dude I get that you're pissed but "none of you actually care, none of you are doing anything" is pretty foolish to say, sorry. A lot of people itt care, a lot of people itt have donated time/money, and some of those same people don't want their country engaged in yet another intervention/war. Bolton is a loving psychopath that even George W. Bush said was out of control. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:14 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 18:38
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Yeah it is kind of weird to criticize the US government for its horrific policy towards South American refugees, then demand the US government do something to help Venezuela, when the US government officials who would be ""helping"" Venezuela are the same depraved loons who would happily machine-gun every Venezuelan refugee at the border if they could get away with it. I am pretty sure those guys don't want what's best for Venezuelans!
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May 30, 2019 20:03
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Venezuela appears to have an extremely dumb fat president but I am skeptical that our own fat extremely dumb president has any helpful ideas to help them with their very fat dumb president problem.
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May 30, 2019 20:07
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Venezuela appears to have an extremely dumb fat president but I am skeptical that our own fat extremely dumb president has any helpful ideas to help them with their very fat dumb president problem. Honestly I'm more worried about all the Serious people surrounding him that worked for previous presidents.
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May 30, 2019 20:19
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Radish posted:Honestly I'm more worried about all the Serious people surrounding him that worked for previous presidents. It is looking more and more like Donnie and Bolton aren't quite the match made in heaven that they seemed to have thought at first. I'd bet Bolton won't be around for too much longer although god knows who they will replace him with. Hopefully someone a little less ready to just invade every drat place that looks at the US funny. I honestly think if Donnie and Maduro had themselves a big boy sit down they'd probably like each other.
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May 30, 2019 21:14
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Seems like Bolsonaro is abandoning Guiadó https://twitter.com/BrazilBrian/status/1134411988409475072
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May 31, 2019 13:07
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Elias_Maluco posted:Seems like Bolsonaro is abandoning Guiadó  Guaido's about to be martyred.
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May 31, 2019 13:52
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Guaido better hope he's in some place safe, the CIA are about to sacrifice him for the cause (of financial profit for vulture capitalism).
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May 31, 2019 14:45
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:
I’m going to consider this a toxx, pick a deadline date tia.
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May 31, 2019 17:57
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By the 31st of July.
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May 31, 2019 18:07
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A martyr either way, the thread wins.
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May 31, 2019 18:27
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Rust Martialis posted:A martyr either way, the thread wins. Yeah its time for the opposition to roll the dice on another figurehead I'd say.
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May 31, 2019 20:46
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Flayer posted:Guaido better hope he's in some place safe, the CIA are about to sacrifice him for the cause (of financial profit for vulture capitalism). Sorry bout your The Nixon tapes, June 11, 1971, 9:37 - 10:36 a.m. posted:Nixon: Connally’s feeling is this: He feels—and he, his gut reaction may be right, Henry, that the
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May 31, 2019 22:46
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Moridin920 posted:Where? Food drives and donations? But people *are* doing those things. I've donated some meager amount to aid groups myself but hey I don't really make poo poo all as far as income, either. I'm just not really interested in boasting about what money I give to various causes or goons. Who? No seriously, who? I know some of the other venegoons, when they were here, helped me, I've yet to see any of the usual tankie posters offer anything, and I mean literally anything of value to the Venezuelan people, other than constant derision. It seems like you just collectively despise any Venezuelan expat, and have the loving audacity of calling them privileged because they speak English or live abroad. You want us to not strawman you but then I see you on the other loving thread and it's basically the same poo poo every time, couple of people on Twitter are used to sum up the entire Venezuelan diaspora. This absolutely boneheaded assumption that every Venezuelan that speaks English is privileged and therefore can reply to you all is stupid in many layers, one of them being of course, that you're American and only speak English which is therefore the reason why you can only interact with that part of the diaspora. Look, I don't give a gently caress what Trump says or does, I can't control that and neither can you. But if you think you have no influence in the political process, you're wrong. There's poo poo you could do for people right now, that doesn't involve spending a penny. If you legitimately care about the topic, you could reach out and see if there's any Venezuelans near you that need assistance of some sort, you could ask expats, hear their stories, corroborate poo poo for yourself. You could write to your representatives, you could increase awareness of the insane amount of Venezuelans that reside in America illegally because of how little asylum requests are processed per year. The reason why tankies clash with actual Venezuelans is not because of a right-left divide. Matter of fact, most Venezuelans I know are just completely disillusioned with politics altogether. The problem is inaction, the problem is that you had all these leftist figures talk praises about Venezuela, they were warned that a collapse was incoming, which then happened and they now refuse to acknowledge it or act upon it. Western leftists have directly acted to our detriment, ignored cries for help, ignored evidence of widespread corruption and chaos, and helped spread government propaganda. I've seen more direct harm than help come from Western leftists, that's where the derision comes from.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:16
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fnox posted:The reason why tankies clash with actual Venezuelans is not because of a right-left divide. Matter of fact, most Venezuelans I know are just completely disillusioned with politics altogether. The problem is inaction, the problem is that you had all these leftist figures talk praises about Venezuela, they were warned that a collapse was incoming, which then happened and they now refuse to acknowledge it or act upon it. Western leftists have directly acted to our detriment, ignored cries for help, ignored evidence of widespread corruption and chaos, and helped spread government propaganda. I've seen more direct harm than help come from Western leftists, that's where the derision comes from. You're right, they were bad leftists for not...parroting right-wing propaganda and supporting america's colonialist foreign policy?
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Jun 2, 2019 17:26
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fnox posted:I know some of the other venegoons, when they were here, helped me, I've yet to see any of the usual tankie posters offer anything, and I mean literally anything of value to the Venezuelan people, other than constant derision. It seems like you just collectively despise any Venezuelan expat, and have the loving audacity of calling them privileged because they speak English or live abroad. I feel a mix of pity and derision for you specifically fnox, because you want Mr. Trump and Mr. Bolton and Mr. Elliott loving Abrams to come down to Venezuela and engage in some good old regime changing. No, sorry, that's unfair - you don't *want* it to happen, you just think it's the least evil option forward at this point. For some unfathomable loving reason.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:30
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The gap between "US leftists please stop supporting Maduro" and "Please US invade Venezuela" is massive, yet the number of posters who pretend it doesn't exist really lowers ones opinion of the US education system. I suppose it comes from "the evil US opposes Maduro, therefore Maduro must be good, so I support Maduro" or something for some posters?
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Jun 2, 2019 17:37
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Slanderer posted:You're right, they were bad leftists for not...parroting right-wing propaganda and supporting america's colonialist foreign policy? no, you see, users of the somethingawful forums were supposed to enact political change in both the internal politics of venezuela but also foreign policy of the united states this is a completely good faith argument
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Jun 2, 2019 17:39
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Rust Martialis posted:The gap between "US leftists please stop supporting Maduro" and "Please US invade Venezuela" is massive, yet the number of posters who pretend it doesn't exist really lowers ones opinion of the US education system. lol gently caress off Here's your massive gap: fnox posted:Unfortunately at the time when all that was needed was just some vocal international support backing a democratic transition, in 2016, what we got was “words of strong condemnation”, and from that point on, Maduro has been cementing his grasp. Now, in 2019, it’s way too late for words. This man is not willing to surrender power peacefully, it can’t happen anymore. Now any option left on the table results in misery, no matter what is decided, people are gonna suffer and die, how many and for how long is still up in the air.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:43
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dirty lousy tramp posted:no, you see, users of the somethingawful forums were supposed to enact political change in both the internal politics of venezuela but also foreign policy of the united states He's asking for goons to help Venezuelan refugees, either personally through donations and charity work or through lobbying any relevant political figures/organisations. Helping people flee the country and make actual lives for themselves once they're out is a lot easier and less reprehensible than Trumpian regime change.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:45
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Conspiratiorist posted:lol gently caress off There are multiple options available to other countries if negotiating with the Maduro government isn't going to work. Helping the population flee to pastures new if they want to do so is one of them, and it seems to be what he's pushing for.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:47
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Darth Walrus posted:There are multiple options available to other countries if negotiating with the Maduro government isn't going to work. Helping the population flee to pastures new if they want to do so is one of them, and it seems to be what he's pushing for. Yeah, he's certainly advocating for that while also supporting the sanctions crushing everyone without the mobility to leave. Some big thinking going on here.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:00
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Rust Martialis posted:The gap between "US leftists please stop supporting Maduro" and "Please US invade Venezuela" is massive, yet the number of posters who pretend it doesn't exist really lowers ones opinion of the US education system. i mean, I suppose "please fund a bunch of death squads to kill those suspected of being okay with the Maduro regime due to skin coloration and/or union membership" is also an option that's been floated, but it doesn't make the opposition look a ton better
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Jun 2, 2019 18:13
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Darth Walrus posted:He's asking for goons to help Venezuelan refugees, either personally through donations and charity work or through lobbying any relevant political figures/organisations. Helping people flee the country and make actual lives for themselves once they're out is a lot easier and less reprehensible than Trumpian regime change. it's obvious from my post that I'm replying to all his bitching about "leftists" and "tankies" not doing anything about maduro so why are you replying to me referencing something that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about? I already know why, because you're disingenuos
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Jun 2, 2019 18:27
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Rust Martialis posted:I suppose it comes from "the evil US opposes Maduro, therefore Maduro must be good, so I support Maduro" or something for some posters? It come from a basic understanding of history, and knowing that the US backed side of any conflict is always the worst. Your failure to understand this lowers my opinion of the Canadian educational system. Ffs the best example of "good" US regime change since WW2 was the universally condemned invasion of Grenada. Also fnox I personally apologize the US isn't in VZ murdering your former countryman.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:35
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Conspiratiorist posted:Yeah, he's certainly advocating for that while also supporting the sanctions crushing everyone without the mobility to leave. Some big thinking going on here. Our problems began with Maduro, not with the sanctions. This is the entire loving point. The country was not fine before the sanctions, it was so bad over there that I sold whatever I could sell, in a hurry in 3 months, got as much money as I could to get a plane ticket and a student dorm room (thank god for free tuition), and then left my entire life behind carrying only a laptop and my clothes with me. There’s been a crisis for almost 7 years and you fuckers only showed up last year. This is the part that I still see people lie about. This is why it pisses me off. The problems did not start with America doing anything, it was all Maduro. Maduro is the root issue.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:51
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Conspiratiorist posted:lol gently caress off I'm sorry if you're unable to tell the difference between the two views. Watch your language, is my honest advice.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:55
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fnox posted:Our problems began with Maduro, not with the sanctions. [...] There’s been a crisis for almost 7 years and you only showed up last year. More like "last week", all too frequently.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:57
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fnox posted:Our problems began with Maduro, not with the sanctions. This is the entire loving point. The country was not fine before the sanctions, it was so bad over there that I sold whatever I could sell, in a hurry in 3 months, got as much money as I could to get a plane ticket and a student dorm room (thank god for free tuition), and then left my entire life behind carrying only a laptop and my clothes with me. There’s been a crisis for almost 7 years and you fuckers only showed up last year. That's a fair sentiment, but you don't get to use it to weasel out of the actual point, Mr. "Please do something, anything." What is your stance with the sanctions? Do you think they're helping? Do you think they're doing anything at all?
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Jun 2, 2019 19:02
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fnox posted:Our problems began with Maduro, not with the sanctions. Dude, you're already loudly asking for a US invasion, you can admit you wish the 2002 coup against Chavez succeeded.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:04
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Conspiratiorist posted:That's a fair sentiment, but you don't get to use it to weasel out of the actual point, Mr. "Please do something, anything." Which particular sanction(s)?
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Jun 2, 2019 19:08
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uninterrupted posted:Dude, you're already loudly asking for a US invasion, you can admit you wish the 2002 coup against Chavez succeeded. I’m not asking for it. There’s no point in asking for it, America is going to invade because that’s what they loving always do and no one is gonna stop it, I mean you sure as gently caress aren’t going to stop Trump invading, or what do you think you have any tangible way of doing that? I want Maduro to step down so that he doesn’t trigger an invasion, and so that we can start working out how to get rid of all these foreign influences he brought in. I want a Venezuela that can have a future after oil, and that can provide a good future for it citizens. Since Maduro took power, our future has only been more dire than our present, which is already a nightmare. There is no way we can get anything to change under Maduro. He cannot be reformed, as he has demonstrated.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:12
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fnox posted:I want Maduro to step down so that he doesn’t trigger an invasion, and so that we can start working out how to get rid of all these foreign influences 
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