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Why do folks think Loras should’ve been the one to kill Gregor? On what planet would he have won? He pulled a neat trick with his horny-horse but toe to toe I don’t think he stands a chance. Also not sure I see how the “20 good men” were traitors to Ned? I think GRRM is just fond of twenty hot man bodies and I don’t read into it much more than that. Beric’s men, afaik, were all with him when he found and got killed by the mountain. As for the thread: as long as there’s a thread to talk shop I’m good. I’ve been lurking these forums for 15 years and just joined 7 years ago, and I never thought to look for an Ice and Fire thread. And now I’m finally here, you are all very fortunate!
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May 31, 2019 12:04
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chaosapiant posted:Why do folks think Loras should’ve been the one to kill Gregor? On what planet would he have won? He pulled a neat trick with his horny-horse but toe to toe I don’t think he stands a chance. I think they meant politically, getting the Tyrells into a blood feud with the Lannisters that early when they spring their trap and Loras gets crushed by the mountain would have helped.
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May 31, 2019 13:00
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Tender Bender posted:I think they meant politically, getting the Tyrells into a blood feud with the Lannisters that early when they spring their trap and Loras gets crushed by the mountain would have helped. Didn’t think of that, totally makes sense. Granted that requires a level of forward thinking and savvy so far beyond Ned I have no words for the rest of this sentence.
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May 31, 2019 13:04
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I wonder if 'Arya sails West' came from gurm but in his version it's to escape an endless stream of assassins pissed off she broke her loyalty to then.
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May 31, 2019 13:07
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chaosapiant posted:Why do folks think Loras should’ve been the one to kill Gregor? On what planet would he have won? He pulled a neat trick with his horny-horse but toe to toe I don’t think he stands a chance. In ASoIaF Cleganebowl would be forshadowed but then subverted when 20 good men kill him, only because huge guy dying to wound infection was already taken.
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May 31, 2019 13:48
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MikeJF posted:I wonder if 'Arya sails West' came from gurm but in his version it's to escape an endless stream of assassins pissed off she broke her loyalty to then. You would think an organization that guarantees delivery when you take out a contract, would at some point have some kind of reprisal against someone who learns their skills and walks out. Religions always hate heretics worse than unbelievers.
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May 31, 2019 13:49
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I liked how Jaqen H'ghar just kinda did the Neverending Story bookshop guy nod when Arya killed one of (the only other?) his assassins and ran away. Really gave that whole chapter a satisfying ending.
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May 31, 2019 14:13
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Solice Kirsk posted:I liked how Jaqen H'ghar just kinda did the Neverending Story bookshop guy nod when Arya killed one of (the only other?) his assassins and ran away. Really gave that whole chapter a satisfying ending. I think you might be confusing the show and the books. I didn't like a lot of the changes the show made to the Arya in Harrenhal scenes, in the show Jaqen kills a ton of Lannister's to free Arya because she said his name as her last owed life. In the books she named him as the third kill and he kills a bunch of Lannister's to free a bunch of Northmen and basically Harrenhal ends up switching from Lannister hands to Bolton's but Arya is still a captive. She actually has to kill a guard on her own to escape, who she tricks into bending over by showing the coin Jaqen gave her and then she slits the guards throat and escapes with Hot Pie and Gendry. I liked the book version a lot better because it didn't have Arya requiring rescuing and she escaped on her own, plus it was her first 'trickster' kill and it was a nice foreshadow of her eventual facelessman trainjng
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May 31, 2019 19:31
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Mike N Eich posted:Yeah I always thought that was a weird way to assassinate someone - get them very drunk and count on a giant boar to gore them to death? That seems very....convenient I always assumed that being gored by a charging boar was a cover story. The truth was Lannister treachery while Robert was roaring drunk while out hunting.
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May 31, 2019 19:31
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Robert was alive when he got back to the Kings Landing, he basically said to Ned the boar got him and it was his own fault
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May 31, 2019 19:35
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Yeah no matter what he'd had to drink I imagine he'd remember getting speared by Lancel loving Lannister.
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May 31, 2019 19:41
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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A Typical Goon posted:I think you might be confusing the show and the books. I didn't like a lot of the changes the show made to the Arya in Harrenhal scenes, in the show Jaqen kills a ton of Lannister's to free Arya because she said his name as her last owed life. Ok everyone, if the bad thread is going to survive people are going to have to understand when people are making jokes
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May 31, 2019 19:45
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Mike N Eich posted:Ok everyone, if the bad thread is going to survive people are going to have to understand when people are making jokes that seems like an unrealistically big ask, considering
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May 31, 2019 19:50
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Kylaer posted:Varys straight-up says that if it hadn't been the boar, it would have been a fall from his horse or a stray arrow or something more explicitly murdery. there's all kinds of ways a guy who's too drunk can die in the woods without that guy being an overweight, aging, notably bloodthirsty jock already insecure from proving too fat to participate in his own tournament in the books cersei even 'forbids' robert from participating in the tourney to get his dander up.
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May 31, 2019 20:07
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Mike N Eich posted:Ok everyone, if the bad thread is going to survive people are going to have to understand when people are making jokes Hieronymous Alloy posted:that seems like an unrealistically big ask, considering I'm pretty sure this was a meta-joke.
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May 31, 2019 20:07
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah no matter what he'd had to drink I imagine he'd remember getting speared by Lancel loving Lannister. Sersei got speared by Lancel and she's so blitzed she probably forgot.
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May 31, 2019 20:11
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah no matter what he'd had to drink I imagine he'd remember getting speared by Lancel loving Lannister. If he was hella drunk, in pain from being speared, and dosed to the gills with milk-of-the-poppy he'd probably have agreed with any retelling of how he got hurt told him by anyone who appeared to have known what happened.
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May 31, 2019 20:16
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Mike N Eich posted:Yeah I always thought that was a weird way to assassinate someone - get them very drunk and count on a giant boar to gore them to death? That seems very....convenient I assume they had been trying this for years and that this was the time the boar actually got him. They probably made sure he was drunk in doing all kinds of dangerous things.
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May 31, 2019 20:16
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The thread should never get closed but still keep everyone talking about how it's gonna happen in an indeterminate future.
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May 31, 2019 20:20
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Speaking of Arya book/show changes, I don't like how her first kill is portrayed in the show. In the books it was deliberate because she was desperate. In the show the dumb kid basically falls on her sword accidently. It's a minor change but it's a huge change in her character.
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May 31, 2019 20:27
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Mad Hamish posted:If he was hella drunk, in pain from being speared, and dosed to the gills with milk-of-the-poppy he'd probably have agreed with any retelling of how he got hurt told him by anyone who appeared to have known what happened. This seems like an unnecessary complicated conspiracy theory. There's no evidence whatsoever Lancel actively speared Robert. They weren't hunting alone, and Selmy (in teh books at least) says Robert commanded them to stand aside. You don't go boar hunting with just one person. And people would be able to tell the difference between a boar wound and a spear wound. And Lancel would be covered in blood. And he's like 15. And he breaks down immediately when Tyrion threatens him. I'm sure if I bother to think about it I can think of more reasons why Robert was killed by a boar. Oh right, Cersei celebrates by eating boar all the time, I doubt she'd have the cunning to keep up the pretense of a boar killing Robert by eating boar just to make the lie consistent. YaketySass posted:The thread should never get closed but still keep everyone talking about how it's gonna happen in an indeterminate future. Well played. chaosapiant posted:Speaking of Arya book/show changes, I don't like how her first kill is portrayed in the show. In the books it was deliberate because she was desperate. In the show the dumb kid basically falls on her sword accidently. It's a minor change but it's a huge change in her character. It seems like the show did that to make characters more empathetic or something. In the books at least Dany says yes to Drogo before they have sex, afaik in the show he basically just rapes her. Making Arya's first murder into manslaughter seems like the same schtick, it also removes agency from (coincidentally I'm sure) female characters.
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May 31, 2019 20:47
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PupsOfWar posted:We know jeyne's mother snuck messages out to the Lannisters and provided information that was used to set up the Red Wedding Wait what now? How do we know this?
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May 31, 2019 22:36
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Didn't lancel explicitly switch out robert's drink with "strongwine" so he'd gently caress it up? I thought that was explicitly how they did it. Robert did indeed believe it was his own fault because, well, he was drunk and got gored, but he was drugged.
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May 31, 2019 23:10
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didnt he go hunting because somebody said they saw a white buck? the whole thing was a setup.
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May 31, 2019 23:14
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pseudanonymous posted:It seems like the show did that to make characters more empathetic or something. In the books at least Dany says yes to Drogo before they have sex, afaik in the show he basically just rapes her. Making Arya's first murder into manslaughter seems like the same schtick, it also removes agency from (coincidentally I'm sure) female characters. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 23:20 on May 31, 2019 |
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May 31, 2019 23:17
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violent sex idiot posted:didnt he go hunting because somebody said they saw a white buck? the whole thing was a setup. The white hart being spotted was the trigger for the hunting trip, and they found it, but it had already been killed and mostly eaten by wolves. So it wasn't a complete fabrication, apparently.
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May 31, 2019 23:20
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Kylaer posted:The white hart being spotted was the trigger for the hunting trip, and they found it, but it had already been killed and mostly eaten by wolves. So it wasn't a complete fabrication, apparently. And then a lion ate half the wolves eating the stag and a rose fell out of its coat and then they were all burned by wildfire. Foreshadowing, more like fiveshadowing!
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Jun 1, 2019 00:01
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Solice Kirsk posted:And then a lion ate half the wolves eating the stag and a rose fell out of its coat and then they were all burned by wildfire. Foreshadowing, more like fiveshadowing! i wish there was a combo  and 
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Jun 1, 2019 00:06
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kcroy posted:Wait what now? How do we know this? Jaime finds out about it during his Riverlands adventures in AFFC. The other Westerlings seem not to've known anything, but the mother, Sybil Spicer, cops to having been an informant for Tywin. She also brags about forcing abortificients on Jeyne to ensure there is no secret fetal Stark heir. in theory i guess sybil could by lying, but this all seems like stuff jaime could easily verify if he wanted to 1994 Toyota Celica posted:there's all kinds of ways a guy who's too drunk can die in the woods without that guy being an overweight, aging, notably bloodthirsty jock already insecure from proving too fat to participate in his own tournament a fun thing w/ cersei's assassination method is that hypothetically she could have tried to kill Robert before, and this just happened to be the time it worked
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Jun 1, 2019 00:17
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Yeah, I've no doubt with Arryn out of the way Cersei would have amped up her 'kill Robert' plans, and likely would have had him killed in some other fashion on that hunt. They just got lucky with the boar after his wine had been spiked.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:20
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I always assumed the wine was at the very least super fortified. But everyone always goes on and on about all the different types of poisons, there's probably one that would make him groggy or off balance or something. I mean more so than usual. Still no guarantee. Who knows if they had a contingency plan though. Ain't no bitch made Lannister spearing Robert with Selmy right there though, that's stupid.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:32
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It's a really bad plan. He's a depressed party animal with a national mandate to do whatever he wants. Dude was probably the realms foremost expert on getting drunk. It's like secretly making a pro race car drivers car slightly faster and hoping he hits a wall instead of just enjoying the hell out of it.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:39
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I thought it was outright stated in the books that Lancel had been giving him way stronger wine than he was used to drinking.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:58
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Lancel was definitely doping him with something.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:59
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Intel&Sebastian posted:It's a really bad plan. He's a depressed party animal with a national mandate to do whatever he wants. Dude was probably the realms foremost expert on getting drunk. It's like secretly making a pro race car drivers car slightly faster and hoping he hits a wall instead of just enjoying the hell out of it. Well it was a plan devised by Cersei and executed by Lancel so it would make sense it's dumb.
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Jun 1, 2019 01:17
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strongwine is like, brandy, im pretty sure after gluggling down multiple flagons of brandy im pretty sure even a giant guy with the tolerance of a habitual alcoholic would be blind drunk A Typical Goon posted:So I was reading the appendixs last night cause I'm a nerd like that and I have what I think is an original theory about the books that are never coming out. The appendix seem to hint at a possible Reach Civil War] We are constantly told through the books that the Reach is the most powerful region and the most powerful houses are the Tyrells, the Florents of Brightwater Keep, the Hightowers in Oldtown and the Tarlys. During Clash of Kings the Florents declare for Stannis because he's married to a Florent, but then Stannis eventually kills the Lord of the family (alester) for a +10 wind magic bonus. The next time the Florents really come up is in King's landing when they have their lands stripped due to the rebelling and their castle granted to Garlan Tyrell, the second Tyrell son. In Principle there is nothing wrong with the Tyrells controlling both of those seats. Starting cadet branches in other holdings is something the great houses are expected to do. The Hightowers for one thing likely wouldn't mind since garlan is lord hightower's grandson. That said, "Randyll Tarly will betray the Tyrells, maybe in favor of Aegon" is an existing fan theory and his Florent marriage is part of the evidence for it.
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Jun 1, 2019 01:35
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Like I understand they wanted to make Daario handsome but still weird and exotic which is why they cast the dude with the face but then when the guy leaves for greener pastures they recast him with the human representation of all the default choices in the character creation menu of a mid budget game
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Jun 1, 2019 01:45
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Didn't lancel explicitly switch out robert's drink with "strongwine" so he'd gently caress it up? I thought that was explicitly how they did it. Robert did indeed believe it was his own fault because, well, he was drunk and got gored, but he was drugged. Yes. But there's a pretty big difference between giving someone stronger drink than they expect and gutting them with a spear.
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Jun 1, 2019 01:53
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esperterra posted:thus the thread should never die So is this thread just one big toxx?
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Jun 1, 2019 03:05
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If the books finally come out, I say we all accept a specially crafted permaban with a picture of the Absolute Fucker cert and "What is dead may never die" as the tag.
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Jun 1, 2019 03:24
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