|
Doctor Spaceman posted:People would still hate him because he was the Emperor's right hand for two decades, regardless of what he did in his final moments. He may have killed kids, hunted some monks to extinction, blown up a planet (technically not him) and he didn't even say that he was sorry. All he did was toss the Emperor in a shaft. In that same vein, how will they handle Kylo.  Surely this will end well.
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 12:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
Darth TNT posted:There was exposition in TFA? There's also Snoke reminding Ben who his dad is and what the order of knights he leads is called.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 14:44
|
|
|
It just blows my mind that TFA just kind of hand waves away what happened over 30 years in this universe and acts like we should already know why Luke is missing, Leia is running some weird Republic splinter group, and Han is once again back to his old poo poo
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 15:05
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It just blows my mind that TFA just kind of hand waves away what happened over 30 years in this universe and acts like we should already know why Luke is missing, Leia is running some weird Republic splinter group, and Han is once again back to his old poo poo Luke's disappearance is at least treated as a mystery to most of the character and as a big part of the plot. No excuses for the rest of them though.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 15:21
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It just blows my mind that TFA just kind of hand waves away what happened over 30 years in this universe and acts like we should already know why Luke is missing, Leia is running some weird Republic splinter group, and Han is once again back to his old poo poo I bet you're still wondering about my red arm too
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 15:51
|
|
|
He doesn’t even have the red arm anymore at the end of the movie
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 16:47
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It just blows my mind that TFA just kind of hand waves away what happened over 30 years in this universe and acts like we should already know why Luke is missing, Leia is running some weird Republic splinter group, and Han is once again back to his old poo poo well it's less 'you should already know' and more 'you shouldn't care in the first place' which to be fair can work in other 'read this other thing to find out more!' pieces of media, but the gaps in TFA's backstory are a lot more egregious. they just wanted han and leia to be where we remember them being decades ago and they let the details of how/why they regressed back to those points get sorted out in EU books later
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 16:58
|
|
|
When you exclusively rely on nostalgia to make the audience care, but you also actively scorn their interest in the characters the nostalgia revolves around, that's-a-JJ
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
Zoran posted:He doesn’t even have the red arm anymore at the end of the movie lmao, you're right! 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 19:44
|
|
|
Mooey Cow posted:lmao, you're right! Wow, what a great looking shot.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 19:54
|
|
|
Like the rest of the movie, 3PO's red arm is a flashing neon reference to something from Original Trilogy that was just a subtle piece of worldbuilding and character history (3PO's silver leg, which was present but never mentioned in all of the original movies).
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 20:01
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:He may have killed kids, hunted some monks to extinction, blown up a planet (technically not him) and he didn't even say that he was sorry. All he did was toss the Emperor in a shaft. I can see it now... Vader dying in Luke's arms: "I'm sorry Luke, sorry for all the horrible things I did that you don't know about. Things you'll find out about in 20 years when the next set of movies come out. I'm sorry for Tarkin blowing up Alderaan even though that wasn't my decision, by the way." Man that'd be poignant way to end the OT.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 20:03
|
|
|
It’s just a nod to Hideo Kojima.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 21:44
|
|
|
“Luke, i’m already a Jedi.”
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 22:52
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It just blows my mind that TFA just kind of hand waves away what happened over 30 years in this universe and acts like we should already know why Luke is missing, Leia is running some weird Republic splinter group, and Han is once again back to his old poo poo Yea it kind of expects you to be half-way intelligent so you can fill in the blanks on your own. Odd, I know. I was similarly outraged that ANH didn't explain the Galactic government in detail other than telling us that the Senate had just been abolished. It made zero sense to me until I took this thing called a "history class" and learned about the Romulan Empire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 01:12
|
|
|
that the empire had just abolished the senate is exactly the kind of establishing detail that TFA lacks there's no 'filling in the blanks' that gets you to correctly understand what planet gets blown up in TFA without outside reading
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 01:19
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:Like the rest of the movie, 3PO's red arm is a flashing neon reference to something from Original Trilogy that was just a subtle piece of worldbuilding and character history (3PO's silver leg, which was present but never mentioned in all of the original movies). Yea, it was literally there to represent the amount of time that had passed and all the crazy poo poo all the characters have been through that we aren't privvy of. Brother Entropy posted:that the empire had just abolished the senate is exactly the kind of establishing detail that TFA lacks Minus the scene where Fin literally states that it was the Galactic capital system.  And if you can't understand the dynamics of what the "Resistance" is compared to the Republic, you need to read a lot more contemporary history. Like, a lot. Preston Waters fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 01:20
|
|
|
Preston Waters posted:Yea, it was literally there to represent the amount of time that had passed and all the crazy poo poo all the characters have been through that we aren't privvy of. Why is his normal arm back at the end of the movie? Preston Waters posted:Minus the scene where Fin literally states that it was the Galactic capital system. Without elaboration, the implication is that the capital system that got destroyed was the one we've seen before, i.e., Coruscant. But outside sources explain that it actually wasn't. What do you think the Resistance is? What does it mean to be a “resistance” that is actually a covert arm of the ruling government?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 03:01
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Huh. I had doubts when I saw how much of it was just pencil drawings of Transformers. Dude just loves him some old school Transformers and can draw them pretty well. He'll often delete all his tweets and rebrand the twitter as a fake account to get weirdos to stop asking him questions that don't need to be asked.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 03:51
|
|
|
Preston Waters posted:Yea it kind of expects you to be half-way intelligent so you can fill in the blanks on your own. Odd, I know. This is a dumb argument because you're comparing the blank slate of ANH with TFA which takes place in a heavily explored universe and therefore the has different standards for setting the proverbial stage, and explaining what the hell is going on, which they purposfully failed so they could have hooks to sell their other gaudy merchandising like books or videogames or whatever poo poo they're trying to sell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
Just compare the title crawlsEpisode IV Title Craw posted:It is a period of civil war. Episode VII Title Crawl posted:Luke Skywalker has vanished. Which one sets the stage better?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 05:51
|
|
|
This argument is weird because it's entirely based on the notion that endings don't matter and the stage can constantly be resetted off-screen without the audience getting to complain that you're yanking their chain. Catharsis? What's that? It also ignores that there were three movies (now five with Rogue One and Solo) dedicated to how we got there, and that that structure was planned well in advance. If TFA had no greater ambition than being a new ANH, it should have been titled Episode X, not VII.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 10:32
|
|
|
Yeah, Disney wants us to care about every waking moment of the lives of the OT characters, including how they got their names and personal possessions, while simultaneously making their stories nothing more than a prelude to the story of their boring new characters. Really weird strategy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2019 15:44
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Just compare the title crawls  We also have no idea why the Republic needed a resistance and why they don't have an army.  What ever happened to the Rebel fleet that attacked the Death Star? (Except apparently they did and they apparently get blown up with not Coruscant.)Also, the old ally is just some old guy no one knows. Instead of I don't know a General Dodonna, Lando, Nien Numb, Ackbar, Wedge Antilles (I know the actor didn't want to reprise) or hell even the guy with the weird head implants from cloud city. Literally anyone other than a no name old guy. Joking aside, there's honestly, there's nothing wrong with the intro crawl at all and you setting them next to the original one from a new hope demonstrates this clearly. It's just that the intro crawl doesn't seem to be related to the movie(s) that followed it. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 08:39
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:The First order then completely decides to ignore Luke. I think the first one does a good job of setting the stage for the state of the galaxy. We know there is a civil war between an evil Empire and Rebels. The Rebels apparently are at a disadvantage because they are in hiding, and their opponents have a superweapon. It's pretty cut and dry, and simple for the audience to follow. Of course, it doesn't have the pressure of filling in the blanks that the TFA has to. The next one sets things up like this. Luke left, and that leads to the First Order succeeding the Empire. The First Order wants Luke dead. Leia is left dealing with the First Order by leading a Resistance that is supported by the Republic for reasons. Oh, by the way, there is a Republic. So...which party is the dominant power? The crawl implies that the First Order is in charge, but the movie treats it like the Republic is. It also doesn't explain why the Republic needs to support resistance fighters instead of fighting the First Order head on. IMO, it's a pretty lovely plot setting. If I was writing it, I would have done something like this: quote:The galaxy is in a delicate But I'm just a dumbass, so what do I know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 10:06
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:I think the first one does a good job of setting the stage for the state of the galaxy. We know there is a civil war between an evil Empire and Rebels. The Rebels apparently are at a disadvantage because they are in hiding, and their opponents have a superweapon. It's pretty cut and dry, and simple for the audience to follow. Of course, it doesn't have the pressure of filling in the blanks that the TFA has to. Amazing, every word of what you just said is right.  I agree the first one is perfect for every reason you state. The second one is not bad, but it's inconsistent to itself and to the movie that follows. The first paragraphs sets the stakes well enough. Luke is gone and the Empire is reborn. But the second paragraph is where it goes off the rails. Like you said why is there a Resistance when the Republic is in power? Or was the First Order in power?  I don't have a problem with it mentioning that Republic exists, the Empire collapsed probably because the Emperor died and time has passed so a Republic was formed. It's not much different than saying that there is an evil Empire in the first crawl. It's something I'm willing to accept with no buts.Your rewrite fixes the New Republic/Resistance issue. But I think it can be made serviceable and clear with even a minor rewrite: Episode VII Title Crawl posted: posted:
In hindsight, it's pretty silly that they only send one guy to follow up their only lead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 12:29
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:The First order then completely decides to ignore Luke. Can't believe you don't know who the venerable Tikka-mas-ala is 
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 14:35
|
|
|
So we're all agreed that the title crawls are in fact canon to the Star Wars universe and that there's walls of text slowly floating through the cosmos that tell bits and pieces of a larger story, right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
They're manifestations of the will of the Force itself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:Amazing, every word of what you just said is right. Well, I did my best to keep things consistent with what is shown in the movie and what is mentioned in the new expanded universe stuff. The Republic Senate can't agree on how to tackle the First Order, with the majority in charge not seeing it as an imminent threat. A minority of Senators and former Rebel Alliance officers want to attack it, so they form the private Resistance. I think it's meant to be more than a search party, as they do drive the First Order away from Takodana.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 18:31
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:So we're all agreed that the title crawls are in fact canon to the Star Wars universe and that there's walls of text slowly floating through the cosmos that tell bits and pieces of a larger story, right? Yeah the death star in the next movie is going to harvest them and shoot letters at planets
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 19:04
|
|
|
is it really hard to understand a political group having an extraparliamentary wing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 21:05
|
|
|
the republic being filthy fucks who decide covertly funding an illegal terrorist organization is the way to combat a peaceful, if fascist state, is the way to go seems a bit weird if we're to root for them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2019 21:50
|
|
|
It's fun when you can ask 'why are they fighting' and have no real answer for three movies
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 03:19
|
|
|
exmarx posted:is it really hard to understand a political group having an extraparliamentary wing? There are plenty of plausible explanations, we just aren't really given one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 03:39
|
|
|
Wild Horses posted:a peaceful, if fascist state I mean, big “if”, but okay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 04:22
|
|
|
It just seems that if you're the sort of government that funds covert paramilitary armies to destroy your neighbors, you're probably also the sort of government that builds a fairly substantial conventional military as well. But apparently not. Honestly, they should have dropped the whole Republic from the ST entirely. Just have it the Empire fell, every world declared independence, and now the First Order's shown up and Leia's trying to get everyone working together again but most planets don't see it as their problem until they're attacked themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 05:37
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:It just seems that if you're the sort of government that funds covert paramilitary armies to destroy your neighbors, you're probably also the sort of government that builds a fairly substantial conventional military as well. But apparently not. This was covered in a novel or some poo poo, there was a treaty that limited the size of militaries (that the First Order were totally ignoring). It's just a rehash of League of Nations and Interwar Era.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 05:42
|
|
|
wdarkk posted:This was covered in a novel or some poo poo, there was a treaty that limited the size of militaries (that the First Order were totally ignoring). It's just a rehash of League of Nations and Interwar Era. That's what we're frustrated about. It's not that they didn't answer it at all, but that they answered it in the books/comics/premium series that Disney wants people to buy rather than in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 05:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:That's what we're frustrated about. It's not that they didn't answer it at all, but that they answered it in the books/comics/premium series that Disney wants people to buy rather than in the movie. Also frustrating is the underlying implication that the central conflict (the titular “star war”) is so worthless as to be relegated to DLC
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2019 05:56
|
|
