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I did like the scene where Ghidorah was flying and he looked like a Showa Era wire puppet.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:47
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The thing that made the mom stuff so hard to follow is that the movie never felt like it established how grounded the earth of the movie was. Like it absolutely never felt clear if she was a evil supervillain talking about the abstract concept of pollution and war eventually ending all life on earth in the way that it is in our world or if the godzilla world of the movie specifically had her talking in plain factual terms. Like it never felt clear if her plan was needed, if it would work, if it was desirable. Throughout the movie I never felt like I had a good grasp on what happened if her plan worked or failed or didn't happen at all.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:56
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Lost a more in-depth post. In brief: enjoyed the fan service, but there wasn’t much else to get excited about. The disappointment is real. Went home and rewatched Shin for the first time, felt better but also more deeply unsettled. Oh well. My favorite G movies are probably 1954 or Shin and 1974’s Mechagodzilla, so I guess I’m fine with either grounded or wacky; I just would like to know which one it’s going to be before I sit down. I’d say that I’ll try to temper my expectations for Kong vs Godzilla, but it’s going to be Kong vs Godzilla with some potentially awesome wildcard action, so I’d probably just be lying to myself.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:05
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The only thing that kept me in the theatre during through this garbage was the promise of the final boss fight, which was cool and good. I kept getting the feeling that the movie was focus grouped to death."Marketing says we we need to have two Armageddon endings, a LOTR ending, a child protanganist. Also Canada Goose is sponsoring us. Make it work."
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Jun 2, 2019 17:12
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Minus1Minus1 posted:I’d say that I’ll try to temper my expectations for Kong vs Godzilla, but it’s going to be Kong vs Godzilla with some potentially awesome wildcard action, so I’d probably just be lying to myself. The movie order here seems so weird, kong vs godzilla seems like such a smaller movie than this.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:20
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BiggerBoat posted:Thanks for the response Dad wasn't in 2014 movie but they say several times he worked with monarch, along with terrorist mom, before that movie. Him and Serizawa are also good friends from this time, although they've fallen out. Again, all stated in the movie. No authority is ceded to him until after Serizawa dies and makes him the most experienced person there. The humans get around so fast because they have a magical super fast plane that they literally take a scene out to talk about. All the leads are always in this plane. The terrorists don't move, they're in Boston the entire time after Antarctica. Most of the cities were probably just going anywhere that wasn't literally ground zero, but they do mention that monarch has a ton of bunkers all over the world in case this happened, and most of the terrorist scenes take place in one, so at least some of them are going there I'd guess.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:01
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The movie order here seems so weird, kong vs godzilla seems like such a smaller movie than this. Skull Island also felt 'smaller' than Godzilla 2014, I guess they're alternating them. Edit: I guess if KOTM was their Avengers then GvK is going to be their Captain America: Civil War.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:05
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BiggerBoat posted:Was Always Right Dad in the 2014 movie? Is there a reason everyone cedes authority to this dude? He's an alpha.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:05
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The weekend box office estimates are in, they've got KOTM at $49 million which won the weekend and beat Aladdin by about $7m. https://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/ That's still way down from G14's $92m opening and even Skull Island's $61m opening so it's not going gangbusters. 
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Jun 2, 2019 18:09
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Always White Dad is the designated protagonist by Hollywood mandate that you need an estranged father character in a disaster movie. If they do decide to end the trilogy by killing Godzilla I don't know how they'd top the ending of Destroyah. It's not the best film in the series but it has the best ending by far. Poor big G spends the while movie in agony, reunites with his son moments before Jr is killed, and then spends his final moments not as a king, but as a dying creature rendered pathetic by the ravages of his own body. I don't know how Godzilla vs Kong could accomplish something on that level when the legendary series has gone all in on the takeout death scenes. Especially after some of the stuff in King of the Monsters Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 2, 2019 |
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Jun 2, 2019 18:13
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BiggerBoat posted:To be clear (and not sure if this was directed right at me or the thread in general), I understood mom's motivation well enough. I just thought it was a hard sell and extremely dumb. Exactly this. I wasn't sleeping or watching YouTube while the character gave their big expository speech. I just didn't feel like their motivation made sense other than "we needed a character to do something drastic and reckless to move the movie along." In other words, I knew what the character said they believed in because, yes, the movie literally has them stare into the camera and say it (complete with a fun stock footage montage that they had happened to prepare for just such an occasion). But I did not understand why they would have that motivation. Give that big speech to another character it would more logically fit instead of trying to wring some cheap pathos out of it. I don't think most people pay to see movies to not pay attention and then complain afterwards. If multiple viewers don't understand the motivations of characters, maybe that's indicative that there's something wrong with the movie? Just maybe?
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Jun 2, 2019 18:16
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I liked the human stuff in this, and thought the family drama worked. It tied G:KotM back to '14 zilla in a way. A lot of the dialogue being exposition was expected so I didn't fault it. The fights whipped. Loved the scale of it all.
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Jun 2, 2019 18:21
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Vince MechMahon posted:The humans get around so fast because they have a magical super fast plane that they literally take a scene out to talk about. All the leads are always in this plane. Speaking of which, the Argo is 100% the best of the new kaiju.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:23
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Man this poo poo was boring. The humans weren't compelling at all and it felt like they had 70% of the screen time of them spouting exposition and jargon at the audience in the least engaging ways possible. Maybe if as other people said I grew up watching Godzilla then this 70/30 split would be the most adrenaline inducing poo poo ever but as a casual it's not not even a little worth it for what feels like a sliver of cool monster fights. I seriously question if humans absolutely need to be the majority of screen time in these movies? Would this movie and previous Godzillas just loving collapse in on themselves if it was mostly Godzilla doing Godzilla things?
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Jun 2, 2019 19:38
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StopHangingDjs posted:Man this poo poo was boring. The humans weren't compelling at all and it felt like they had 70% of the screen time of them spouting exposition and jargon at the audience in the least engaging ways possible. Maybe if as other people said I grew up watching Godzilla then this 70/30 split would be the most adrenaline inducing poo poo ever but as a casual it's not not even a little worth it for what feels like a sliver of cool monster fights. I seriously question if humans absolutely need to be the majority of screen time in these movies? Would this movie and previous Godzillas just loving collapse in on themselves if it was mostly Godzilla doing Godzilla things? You'd run into heavy visual fatigue with the way the CGI effects work. Maximum noise and fury all the time means that it will drum you brain into mush. Sadly we haven't gotten any good quiet moments with Godzilla in this continuity that wasn't him knocked the gently caress out. Kong gets a few moments of what you're asking for, but people can emphasize with him better since he's a mammal. Mind you, I'd be stoked to have basically a remake of Son of Godzilla, where Godzilla is constantly on the screen and the stakes are super low and it's just a character study of Godzilla doing Godzilla poo poo, including being a parent and taking care of his dumb kid. But that happening in this day and age is probably not going to work out because I don't think people consider kaiju characters, even though they 100% are and should be treated as such. Just convince Hollywood of that.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:44
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Burkion posted:You'd run into heavy visual fatigue with the way the CGI effects work. Maximum noise and fury all the time means that it will drum you brain into mush. I dunno would we run into fatigue? In a world with entirely digital movies and Godzilla coming out around the time as things like Detective Pikachu? You don't have to have him wrecking poo poo all the time, I think the King Kong approach could work. But I'll run it back a little, the humans could work look at Pacific Rim 1, they just absolutely didn't here. Drained all the momentum and energy whenever they were on screen and actually ruined the movie for me
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Jun 2, 2019 19:49
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Skull Island also felt 'smaller' than Godzilla 2014, I guess they're alternating them. skull island had a smaller scale but it was huge leap in cinematography and character writing so like, im kinda disappointed it seems this film regressed in that regard
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Jun 2, 2019 19:51
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The way I see it, this movie had the time to do the world-building stuff with Monarch and the huge discoveries that'd supposedly happened since 2014, OR the family drama/personal tragedy stuff. Instead they tried to shoehorn both into those scenes and it all feels dumb and forced.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:53
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^^^this^^^StopHangingDjs posted:Man this poo poo was boring. The humans weren't compelling at all and it felt like they had 70% of the screen time of them spouting exposition and jargon at the audience in the least engaging ways possible. Maybe if as other people said I grew up watching Godzilla then this 70/30 split would be the most adrenaline inducing poo poo ever but as a casual it's not not even a little worth it for what feels like a sliver of cool monster fights. I seriously question if humans absolutely need to be the majority of screen time in these movies? Would this movie and previous Godzillas just loving collapse in on themselves if it was mostly Godzilla doing Godzilla things? Just go watch Skull Island to see it done right.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:53
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The scale of the monsters is what hinders them meshing with a human perspective. There's also, again, a very real bias in (what hollywood thinks) audiences being able to relate to monsters like Godzilla and co. Kong is a mammal, we're hardwired to sympathise with him. Godzilla and friends are reptiles and bugs. Mind, *I* don't agree with it at all, but that's entirely the logic going on there. As for the human plot- look up my big long post a few back. I went into what I'd do to fix the whole thing. Curious to know what you'd think of that version of the film. Also apparently the original cut of the movie is 3 hours long? I cannot imagine what they cut out of it
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Jun 2, 2019 20:04
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StopHangingDjs posted:Man this poo poo was boring. The humans weren't compelling at all and it felt like they had 70% of the screen time of them spouting exposition and jargon at the audience in the least engaging ways possible. Maybe if as other people said I grew up watching Godzilla then this 70/30 split would be the most adrenaline inducing poo poo ever but as a casual it's not not even a little worth it for what feels like a sliver of cool monster fights. I seriously question if humans absolutely need to be the majority of screen time in these movies? Would this movie and previous Godzillas just loving collapse in on themselves if it was mostly Godzilla doing Godzilla things? As somebody who did grow up with Godzilla and found the split to be exceptionally adrenaline-inducing (The start of the Battle in Boston, where Godzilla advances and clashes with King Ghidorah, was probably the most exciting minute of movie I've ever experienced), I do agree with this. I'm perfectly fine with humans being the majority in kaiju films if their stories are compelling by themselves (the original, Shin Godzilla, 2014, and Skull Islands immediately come to mind), and think that they are absolutely necessary for the kaiju fights to be truly meaningful. To answer your questions, I would say yes to both: Godzilla and humanity compliment one another, having one without the other wouldn't work, at least, in my opinion!
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Jun 2, 2019 20:13
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Burkion posted:The scale of the monsters is what hinders them meshing with a human perspective. This is part of why I think the Legendary films have given him more mammalian features (those eyes, that snout). My quick two cents review: movie is incredibly, kinda awe-inspiringly stupid, but so are a lot of the Godzilla movies I love. I’d like it if 20-30 minutes of the human plot was ruthlessly cut but Hollywood doesn’t make sub-2 hour movies anymore. I still had a blast with it, it did the monsters and their personalities right and Rodan annihilating those fighter jets was one of the coolest things I’ve seen onscreen this year. Also liked that it confirmed Godzilla and Mothra are an item and Godzilla’s home/charging station was cute.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:14
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Oh, and if you’re wondering how all the Boston stuff played in a Boston area theater on opening night: very well. We got a spontaneous “YANKEES SUCK!” yell at one point and I almost died
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Jun 2, 2019 20:17
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I didn't care much for Skull Island when it first came out, but I just rewatched it and god drat it's so much better than KOTM.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:20
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Burkion posted:The scale of the monsters is what hinders them meshing with a human perspective. That was a positive aspect in the '54 film where Gojira was just goddamn overwhelming and the humans characters had to desperately struggle to adjust their perspective to deal with this paradigm shift of how the world functioned and their place in it. That fisherman at the start who was one of the first to witness Gojira first hand couldn't cope and just .... shut down. (Shin Godzilla came pretty close to capturing that mood all over again.) But then when they got to the Godzilla sequels and tried to turn the big G into more of a relatable character but how can mere humans possibly relate to a walking metaphor for nuclear armageddon?
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Jun 2, 2019 20:22
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Burkion posted:The scale of the monsters is what hinders them meshing with a human perspective. No way, humans have to deal with all sorts of forces bigger than they are that they can't control. The problem of a movie like this is thinking they need to have the people and monsters need to be in constant interaction so every other scene is them dancing around the monsters feet like they are only mildly risky to be around. The way to write this stuff is to have the monsters set the terms and have the people only able to interact by great effort at turning points in the story, not be constantly having the people in control or making the choices. Like shin godzilla is 90% a city council meeting about a bunch of useless people arguing about plans that clearly wouldn't work and it's good because it was an authentic story about a totally unprepared minor bureaucracy dealing with an actual real problem way out of scope of what they are meant to deal with.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:23
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:But then when they got to the Godzilla sequels and tried to turn the big G into more of a relatable character but how can mere humans possibly relate to a walking metaphor for nuclear armageddon? That's pretty much the feeling that I got from this movie. It seemed like they really went really hard on the animal/pack metaphors for explaining the kaiju and what they do, and... I dunno, I feel like thinking of Godzilla as just a big indestructible reptile wolf thing doesn't encapsulate everything he really is.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:28
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't think it's a coincidence that a movie that isn't great in how it presents it's story telling has a larger than average number of people confused about the plot. This movie presents a lot of plot points as random toss off lines or information presented on a screen instead of shown happening. That's a fair point, there are way too many blink and you'll miss it plot elements which leaves the human plots ultimately thin at best. Skull Island is the better film, but I don't want anyone to skip seeing KOTM on the biggest screen they can get to.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:33
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Dammerung posted:That's pretty much the feeling that I got from this movie. It seemed like they really went really hard on the animal/pack metaphors for explaining the kaiju and what they do, and... I dunno, I feel like thinking of Godzilla as just a big indestructible reptile wolf thing doesn't encapsulate everything he really is. They pretty much had to do something along those lines in order to be able to keep the 'monsterverse' moving forwards. They did something similar with Kong, in the original '33 film he was a metaphor for unbridled nature/Id (amongst other things) and the dangers that come from trying to 'tame' wild nature by repressing/caging it. Kong in Skull Island is a very different beast. Edit: Kong in '76, '86 and '05 was also a very different beast in different ways yet again but I don't think they had that much influence on how the people behind Skull Island shaped their version of Kong. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 2, 2019 |
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Jun 2, 2019 20:40
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Burkion posted:
That's an interesting take but I don't really buy it. Audiences dug Jurassic Park, Starship Troopers, Alien and Pacific Rim. Not a mammal in sight. Those were just better movies. Having a hard time entertaining the idea of reptile/amphibian bias to be honest. If anything, I'd chalk it up to more of a "those rubber monster movies were stupid" bias than anything related to species.
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Jun 2, 2019 20:42
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:They pretty much had to do something along those lines in order to be able to keep the 'monsterverse' moving forwards. They did something similar with Kong, in the original '33 film he was a metaphor for unbridled nature/Id (amongst other things) and the dangers that come from trying to 'tame' wild nature by repressing/caging it. They might have had to do something, but I don't think reducing the kaiju to little more than large beasts was a good move to make. It didn't serve Godzilla too well in the Heisei era, and I am a bit saddened to see it make a resurgence.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkcfB3z0_-0 All the Godzilla footage from G 2014. Thematically the way it's shot in 2014 by only getting glimpses or not dwelling on the monsters outside of telling the story it kind of evokes to me like staring at a nuclear explosion, like you don't, can't see it directly or only can catch glimpse or effect of it. The way it's filmed also feels more horror and less action-like. That's, imo, the main problem in some regards to KOTM which was to introduce animal/pack mentality to something that is a force of nature or manifestation of a disaster event. It doesn't work for what Godzilla is, it lessens it, but in my opinion can work for Kong since I don't think there's the same history or themes. It's awesome to see the monsters go at it but the pace and the ambiance of the conflict feels more traditional than the way Gareth and his Cinematographer shot it in G 2014 and that allowed things to breathe and settle. KOTM moves too fast except for seeing the effects of Rodan's flight and chase. Complain about the dull human part but in my opinion it was done right because it gave context to the Titans and didn't over power or take equal weight. Which is also a problem in KOTM, in my opinion. Bryan Cranston provides all the emotional weight and drive the movie needs and everything that happens is an execution of his will after death. Also in my opinion, G2014 had some great cues to its score, like when Godzilla turns in the dust and there's actually a sort of silence to his movement. It's memorable.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:09
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BiggerBoat posted:Audiences dug Jurassic Park, Starship Troopers, Alien and Pacific Rim. Not a mammal in sight. Those were just better movies. Having a hard time entertaining the idea of reptile/amphibian bias to be honest. If anything, I'd chalk it up to more of a "those rubber monster movies were stupid" bias than anything related to species. That's kind of the point. Those are all movies where the reptiles/arthropods are monsters to be feared and treated as horror monsters, or at the very most something to be respected and avoided, not sympathetic entities. It doesn't mean audiences hate seeing anything with reptilian/amphibian/arthropod features. Contrast to Kong, who is intimidating but clearly viewed as Our Buddy and Pal in the most recent movies. You not only feel sympathy for him, but empathy. It's much harder to get that kind of instinctual response for something that doesn't express emotion the same ways mammals do. People STILL think that snakes and other reptiles act purely on primal instinct and don't have the capacity for emotion or companionship many mammals do. It's extremely hard to fight that perspective.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:16
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BiggerBoat posted:That's an interesting take but I don't really buy it. Yeah we live in a world were people form huge attachments to inanimate objects and disembodied voices through a radio. Not to mention all the people with reptiles as pets. I'm not buying there being difficulty in empathizing with Godzilla because he's big or a mammal. Hell I bet if you asked most what their opinion of Godzilla is a character they wouldn't go "nah didn't like him because he's too big and scaly for my mammalian brain" or something
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Jun 2, 2019 21:20
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BiggerBoat posted:That's an interesting take but I don't really buy it. Humans are mammals, just fyi
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Jun 2, 2019 21:24
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Also, notice I specifically said, since others covered the rest really well There's also, again, a very real bias in (what hollywood thinks) audiences being able to relate to monsters like Godzilla and co. What Hollywood Thinks is the important factor here. Audiences might be able, SHOULD be able, to relate to the kaiju of Godzilla movies, but that isn't the pervading opinion of the people in charge. The examples you posted, the monsters were all antagonistic. The T-Rex only became a true 'hero' to people, worth sympathy, relatively recently and mostly due to nostalgia. I absolutely think people can and should be able to relate to the kaiju as characters because *I* do, but I understand that some people just don't. They can't and won't engage with something so unlike themselves. It's a similar thing to needing to see an actor's face to empathise with them You don't really need that. You just need a good story and good body language and good acting. But people think they do and can be very hard to convince otherwise. And you can see this in a lot of critical reviews of the movie that ignore the kaiju as characters entirely. They refuse to engage with the movie because it is a giant monster movie, and shut out what benefits those character bring to the film. That's not something you're doing or anyone else in this thread- but we get it. We engage with these monsters and we want to see more of them. The critics that can't and won't do that are the ones Hollywood typically writes to. They're the ones that only see the monsters as special effects and refuse to look any deeper into them, even if they would if they had a more human face- Re Thanos or the Planet of the Apes films, or Kong himself.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:40
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Oh, and if you’re wondering how all the Boston stuff played in a Boston area theater on opening night: very well. We got a spontaneous “YANKEES SUCK!” yell at one point and I almost died As the radioactive blast of the ancient god monster tears through the air around us and causes me to hemorrhage blood from my soft membranes, I muster the last of my strength to say: Hate us 'cause you ain't us.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:43
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Mulva posted:As the radioactive blast of the ancient god monster tears through the air around us and causes me to hemorrhage blood from my soft membranes, I muster the last of my strength to say: Hate us cause you anus?
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Jun 2, 2019 21:45
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why the ufck did the movie go to boston when washington dc had more interesting things for the monsters to smash in their battle god this movies so bad
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Jun 2, 2019 21:45
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It's a Godzilla movie, everyone's drawn to the green monster in the end.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:46
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