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Rhyno posted:This is so stupid, of all the characters we don't need two of, a Flash is at the top of the list. SPEEEEEDFOOOOOORCE
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Jun 3, 2019 15:41
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Rhyno posted:It's really bad. Did I mis read this, one Wally is in jail and the other is running free? I think by King's reckoning one Wally is in jail and the other is stuck completing the loop, eventually becoming the jail Wally. Not that I want to defend this depressing comic book that thoroughly ruins my favorite character. The whole time travel bit is stupid. If they can just make fake bodies and replace them at the scene of the crime so as to maintain the timeline while keeping Wally alive... why not do that with everyone and save them? Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 15:43
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I think by King's reckoning one Wally is in jail and the other is stuck completing the loop, eventually becoming the jail Wally. I don't know, it didn't seem like he's completing the loop, it think they broke it.
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Jun 3, 2019 15:47
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After catching up on this thread ... ... Uh, this is where I keep in mind the advice I got here of, more or less, "don't expect to see anything for the Legion at least until Doomsday Clock is over" and start upgrading it to "pray they never bring the Legion back ever because the alternative is bound to be horrific", isn't it. *sigh*
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Jun 3, 2019 15:53
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This might be a controversial opinion but Heroes in Crisis was complete crap from day one, no matter what changes were made to it. Whether Wally's a murderer that kills himself or a murderer that goes to jail... it's bad. And nothing else in the book was good enough to stand out and overcome this. I loved the initial teasers and the idea of superhero therapy, but the book turned therapy into this bizarre purgatory where you just relive lovely events in an attempt to become numb to them. Maybe I'm missing some layer to the story here but it just reads like King doesn't understand therapy and doesn't even understand what human happiness is. Here's my controversial opinion - Doomsday Clock is really good and reading these two events side-by-side as they come out is just further proof of that to me. Using the Watchmen characters to represent grim and gritty tendencies in writing isn't exactly original or all that inspired, but Dr. Manhattan trying to frame the ever-changing and ever-retconned DC Universe in scientific and "realistic" terms is extremely my jam and lets the book show the true joy and wonder of Superman and every crazy-rear end concept and superhero that's sprung from his inspiration.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:22
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Rhyno posted:This is so stupid, of all the characters we don't need two of, a Flash is at the top of the list. The Fastest Man(s) alive.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:22
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A Fancy Hat posted:This might be a controversial opinion but Heroes in Crisis was complete crap from day one, Don't think that was controversial.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:25
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Not at all controversial.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:29
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Dawgstar posted:The Fastest Man(s) alive. See, the reason I think there are two Wallys is for stupid future grief and drama. Like they will restore his family and then he has to deathmatch himself over them.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:30
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Rhyno posted:It's really bad. Did I mis read this, one Wally is in jail and the other is running free? I thought one of those Wallys had to return to 5 days ago with his clone corpse.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I thought one of those Wallys had to return to 5 days ago with his clone corpse. The last page seemed to indicate that one is locked up and one is running free.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:44
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Wasn't that was him travelling back in time with his fake body (a follow-up to the second panel on the previous page)?
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Jun 3, 2019 16:53
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Wasn't that was him travelling back in time with his fake body (a follow-up to the second panel on the previous page)? Possibly, I might be confused but I saw other people bitching about this new status quo as well.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:56
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If there were two Wallys now that would have been the big story coming out of Heroes in Crisis and nobody is talking about that.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:59
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technically now there are 3 Wally Wests 
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Jun 3, 2019 17:07
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I hope one of the Wally Wests ends up calling himself Earnest East or something similarly absurd
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Jun 3, 2019 17:20
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taichara posted:After catching up on this thread ... Don't you have any faith in Jonathan Hickman?
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Jun 3, 2019 19:40
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Teenage Fansub posted:Don't you have any faith in Jonathan Hickman? He won't be doing anything with legion for at least a couple years (so just in time for Doomsday Clock to finish).
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Jun 3, 2019 20:49
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HiC being bad is not at all controversial. King being bad with this held up as evidence is at least contentious. Doomsday Clock being good is similarly contentious, but there's definitely good elements in it among the weird or bad ones. If it was made to be wholly separate from the larger DCU, there'd be more leeway, I'd expect. Mime and Marrionette are interesting characters and I feel like if they were introduced as a focus villain in a book like Green Arrow or Batman or some other lower level book, it'd be great. The recent issue is actually a super meta look at the nature of the DCU that's pretty apt (the DCU basically pivots around Superman, but it does miss that it also pivots around Batman). The stuff with Ozymandias and the other Watchmen characters I could give a gently caress about though.
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Jun 3, 2019 21:22
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Anyone got a single issue reading order for Geoff Johns's Superman stories?
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Jun 4, 2019 08:40
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frameset posted:Anyone got a single issue reading order for Geoff Johns's Superman stories? Just Superman focused? No Infinite Crisis or anything? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Johns#DC_Comics Superman: The Man of Steel #121, #133 (20022003) Superman #179180, 184187, 189, 650653 (20022006) Action Comics #837840, 844846, 850851, 855873, 900, 1,000 (20062018), Annual #1011 (20072008) Superman: Secret Origin #16 (20092010) Adventure Comics #03, 56 (20092010) <-Superboy Superman vol. 3 #3239 (20142015) Doomsday Clock (some of) Superman 650-653 and Action 837-840 alternate chapters. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 08:52
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Teenage Fansub posted:Just Superman focused? No Infinite Crisis or anything? That's missing a lot of Geof Johns writing Superman, like all of his Justice League stuff, and I haven't read it but I have to imagine Superman has shown up once or twice in the billion Green Lantern comics Johns has written.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:04
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Skwirl posted:That's missing a lot of Geof Johns writing Superman, like all of his Justice League stuff, and I haven't read it but I have to imagine Superman has shown up once or twice in the billion Green Lantern comics Johns has written. That's probably why the list started with the question "Just Superman focused?"
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Jun 4, 2019 09:06
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Yeah. Read 80% of Johns DC comics for every appearance. I also did miss stuff. Updated 
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Jun 4, 2019 09:07
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Teenage Fansub posted:Don't you have any faith in Jonathan Hickman? Not particularly, no.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:19
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:That's probably why the list started with the question "Just Superman focused?" I assume one or two issues of his Justice League are pretty focused on Superman.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:21
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I've already read Infinite Crisis, I got the Omnibus for Christmas. The catalyst for me asking the question was that I've just read Superman: Secret Origin (digitally), and it was pretty great, and it seems like Johns went on to write a lot more Superman. So yeah Superman focussed, not just stories where Superman is there or turns up as part of a team.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:41
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If you liked Secret Origin, definitely read his Action Comics run since a few big arcs are also drawn by Gary Frank (as well as N52 Shazam! and Doomsday Clock.)
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Jun 4, 2019 09:51
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Yeah I'm currently reading Doomsday Clock, at its glacially slow release pace.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:56
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say you should read Johns Justice League stuff. I haven't read most of it, but Superman is kinda important to the team as a concept.
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Jun 4, 2019 09:58
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I think Johns's JL completely blows until after Forever Evil when Lex joins. Darkseid War was pretty fun. Morrison's Action Comics, Greg Pak's Action and Batman/Superman and Charles Soule's Superman/Wonder Woman are all better comics to read N52 Superman in. edit: Shazam was part of his JL, so it wasn't all bad. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 10:06
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Frameset if you liked Johns' Secret Origin then his main Superman run is in Action Comics. It's compiled in trades with Up, Up and Away, Last Son, Escape from Bizarro World, Superman and the Legion of Superheroes, Brainiac - or the Single issues are the Action Comics issues listed above. After Brainiac he then goes on to write part of the New Krypton Saga but he left fairly early in that storyline and the storyline just kinda spun its wheels and ended in a wet far so I'd stop at Brainiac or even Superman and the LOSH (my favourite Johns Superman storyline) tbh. But yes if you are interested in New 52 Supes I agree with Teenage Fansub that Morrison's Action Comics run as well as Greg Paktion comics run are both excellent. Johns N52 JL run has a good amount of Superman in it but he's one part of an ensemble rather than the focus. Johns also wrote a short N52 Superman story called The Men of Tomorrow, it had decent character work though I wasn't fond of JRjr's art and it was mostly setup to a villain that other writers later followed through on to a really unsatisfying result so I can't recommend it for that.
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Jun 4, 2019 13:28
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I got into DC about a year after new 52 launched, so I've read a great deal of the Superman/Batman/Action/Detective/JL of that era, but I appreciate the recommendations from all. The whole "Wally West was MY Flash" posting that's been going around since rebirth has made me look back at the pre N52 stuff, and having read Infinite Crisis I can see why a lot of people were mad about losing all that history. There does seem to be a good flow to the 2000s DC where Identity Crisis (yes I know it's bad or w/e please don't go off here), then Infinite Crisis goes into 52, and then Final Crisis. I'm currently up to 52 issue 3, having bought the two crisis omnibuses for £60 each here in the UK. I'm reading 52 digitally, as the omnibus is around £90, which is a little high for me atm. I mostly asked as I have digital single issues of the action/superman of the 2000s and wanted a reading list for that rather than trade so I could dis-entangle the trade reading order.
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Jun 4, 2019 14:33
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The thing about Wally is it's not just that he's "my" Flash or whatever, he's actually everyone's Flash. Because ever since Barry Allen came back the #1 thing he's done is appropriate basically every single thing he could about Wally's tenure with little innovation for the character in and of himself. There's a reason that in the movie or the shows they always want The Flash to be the wisecracking one and that was certainly never Barry until the New 52 kicked off, erased Wally, and they started stapling things from Wally onto Barry. No one actually wanted Barry Allen back. DC didn't even want Barry Allen back because they so thoroughly changed everything they could about him. All they wanted was a name with little to no history required for his story. Everything else they wanted to be Wally.
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Jun 4, 2019 16:30
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to be fair i haven't read much flash since barry came back but i still feel like i have no idea what his character is? at least when hal came back he's obviously a distinct character from kyle, but barry coming back always felt pointless
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Jun 4, 2019 16:34
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grain of salt, hopefully not true https://twitter.com/bleedingcool/status/1135947236079230978
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Jun 4, 2019 17:36
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The big relaunch that was meant to revitalize the brand was kind of a wet fart unfortunately. Black Label will most likely take it's place if this is true.
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Jun 4, 2019 17:43
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I blame Eric Esquivel. A few weeks ago they said all Sandman titles were getting another year, so hopefully they're safe if this does happen.
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Jun 4, 2019 17:44
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Vertigo was basically over when they let go Karen Berger
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Jun 4, 2019 17:46
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I never understood why Young Animal wasn't brought in under Vertigo. I understand that they wanted to give Way his own boutique books/whatever but he could have still had his own line under the Vertigo umbrella. bobkatt013 posted:Vertigo was basically over when they let go Karen Berger Also, pretty much this. I will be interested if anyone can compile a list of solid Vertigo books post Berger.
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Jun 4, 2019 18:46
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