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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Everyone arguing about how they could What this man said, but times ten. Condensing dozens of scientists down to a single character is a narrative decision, and was actually communicated to you, you dense bricks.
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Jun 4, 2019 20:53
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fix 
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Kraftwerk posted:Why are there always concern trolls popping up for this show? Anything to get people not talking about authoritarianism is a win for the FSB.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:02
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This show had some incredibly seamless effects, particularly the shots of the plant itself. For example in the latest episode we see Perevozchenko (I believe) on the walkways in the reactor hall as well as the reactor blocks bouncing up and down. Is it a set? Green screen? CG? Matte painting? Combination of? I can't tell. Some other examples: episode 4 when the biorobots beak over the edge and you can see the destroyed reactor, and in episode one the shot of the fire trucks in front of the burning reactor building as it pans up to the sky. Another example would be the helicopters dropping sand on the reactor. Anyone know how these shots were taken?
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Jun 4, 2019 21:06
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TigerXtrm posted:What this man said, but times ten. Not because she's a woman or because she's too smart or whatever bullshit, but because it makes the narrative look like Chernobyl is way less important and way more covered up than it was, and because I think it would have been a more appropriate theme to show a shitload of scientists convening to share information and use, like, actual scientific methods to reach decisions. I don't even want more individual named scientists or speaking roles, she could speak for them completely, I just want a ton of nerds getting off buses and meeting each other and squabbling in the background. There are idiots who object because she's a woman, or because since she's a woman the character is faulty while Legasov's isn't. That is bullshit. That isn't the only possible objection.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:10
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i like nice words
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TigerXtrm posted:What this man said, but times ten. *in incredibly infantile baby voice* But women scientists, though??
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Jun 4, 2019 21:10
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Anne Whateley posted:I know it was a narrative decision. I think it was a bad narrative decision. A lot of stuff was left out of the show. It did not cover everything, far from it. Many things were twisted or changed to fit the narrative. Why is this -woman- character the only aspect of the show a bunch dudes are whining about? It's such a strange whine to the rest of us taht we can only assume there's mental baggage behind it
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Jun 4, 2019 21:11
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I'm a woman in a STEM job, would you like to try again?
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Jun 4, 2019 21:13
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Anne Whateley posted:I know it was a narrative decision. I think it was a bad narrative decision. If inconsequential bullshit triggers you like this, and it so happens that out of all the inconsequential bullshit we've seen, the only one being complained about is the woman scientist, you might just be misogynist and not realize it. Just sayin'
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Jun 4, 2019 21:15
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Anne Whateley posted:I'm a woman in a STEM job, would you like to try again? So am I. Check mate
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Jun 4, 2019 21:15
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Anne Whateley posted:I'm a woman in a STEM job, would you like to try again? So? Your gender doesn't disqualify you from having lovely anti-feminist opinions.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:16
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By inventing this character they also created a weird divide between "the team" and "the scientists" which obviously didn't actually exist. As a result the show has the added drama of "Legasov must warn the scientists!!!" when in reality the scientists were very much part of the entire operation from the get go Compare to the boy who had to shoot dogs. He's an invented character and a stand in for the liquidators as a whole, but that doesn't preclude other liquidators from appearing in supporting roles. It'd be very weird if he was shown to be doing all the work completely on his own. Just me though but I think it is possible to criticize a badly written female character without being a raging misogynist. 
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Jun 4, 2019 21:37
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Looks like this thread needs a Sarcophagus of its own right now...
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Jun 4, 2019 21:40
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The dogs didn't have to suffer but everyone reading this thread does
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Jun 4, 2019 21:44
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You're soiling the eternal memory of the heroes of Chernobyl.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:52
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FiftySeven posted:Looks like this thread needs a Sarcophagus of its own right now... Eau de MacGowan posted:im still confused, is it socialism or capitalism that emits gamma radiation? CrazyLoon posted:It's this thread.
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Jun 4, 2019 22:18
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CrazyLoon posted:The podcast went more indepth on what the intent there was, and while we as the viewers get the sense of him being monstrous (because we know what happens next), Mazin put it a bit more accurately that Dyatlov was just a stubborn bully that was impatient to get this bullshit test done, so that he could move up the ranks and get into a management position. He (and no worker at the plant either) had even the slightest inkling, that if you're both, this kind of insanely stubborn hardass motherfucker AND that the 'off switch' for the reactor does literally the opposite under this condition and blows it up, would happen. Yeah many first person accounts said he bullied workers especially subordinates at the plant. Other accounts said he was just a demanding supervisor to work with on Shift because he didn't tolerate excuses from people.
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Jun 4, 2019 22:27
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I went back to https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/#378986ac709b, which has a table of fatalities per trillion kilo-watt hours. They cited the Externalities of Energy Methodology 2005 Update EU report, so I checked that and it estimates latent fatalities as being in the 10,000 to 40,000 range. Using the higher end estimate, they came up with 90 deaths/trillion kW-hr, in comparison to 10,000 in the U.S. for coal and 4,000 for natural gas worldwide. In April 2018, TIME published a 30-year update of the ongoing health effects.
galenanorth fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 22:29
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etalian posted:
What if they were in the toilet?
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Jun 4, 2019 22:32
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"Vichnaya Pamyat" is currently sitting as the second best television episode of all time on IMDB with a rating of 9.9. I'm not surprised.
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Jun 4, 2019 22:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP-pdpQbc4o
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Jun 4, 2019 22:39
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From Chernobyl: The History of Nuclear Catastrophe quote:At the plant, Diatlov was known for being difficult, occasionally even rough. “Diatlov was a complicated man to deal with, direct, with his own point of view that he never changed according to a superior’s wish. He argued and did not agree; ultimately he obeyed but stood by his opinion,” recalled one of his acquaintances. “In just the same way, he did not reckon very much with the views of subordinates. You understand that not everyone likes such a person.”
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Jun 4, 2019 22:45
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Why couldn't they just build the containment structure over the roof? Why did they need to clear it out?
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Jun 4, 2019 23:08
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It takes more than 90 seconds to build a containment structure
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Jun 4, 2019 23:12
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Big Dick Cheney posted:Why couldn't they just build the containment structure over the roof? Why did they need to clear it out? Imagine trying to build a whole new concrete roof over the entire structure. You're talking a lot more people, tons of equipment and material, all new support structure over an existing damaged building, basically a massive undertaking. All with some of the most highly radioactive stuff on earth laying nearby.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:13
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Oh that makes sense. I guess they couldn't just fly the structure over the roof and drop it off.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:14
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Big Dick Cheney posted:Why couldn't they just build the containment structure over the roof? Why did they need to clear it out? You might've seen pictures of the new containment structure which goes over the entire structure at a distance. The original sarcophagus was done as quickly as possible and structurally relies on existing power plant buildings. Take a look at the clearance here:  Compare to:  Big Dick Cheney posted:Oh that makes sense. I guess they couldn't just fly the structure over the roof and drop it off. The new containment structure was built next to the site and then slid into place to get around the radiation problem.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:20
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After reading more about radiation poisoning over the past few days, I am kind of just left wondering one thing. If someone has certainly taken a lethal dose, absolutely no questions asked, stupid amounts of radiation, why do they even bother trying to keep them alive? If I knew that I was in that situation, I would want only one thing, a loaded gun. I would just want to end it as fast as possible on my terms before I ended up like Hiroshi Ouchi or any of the poor guys who were killed by Chernobyl. gently caress science at that point, I wouldnt want to be a test subject. Just end it as painlessly and quickly as possible.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:21
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FiftySeven posted:After reading more about radiation poisoning over the past few days, I am kind of just left wondering one thing. If someone has certainly taken a lethal dose, absolutely no questions asked, stupid amounts of radiation, why do they even bother trying to keep them alive? If I knew that I was in that situation, I would want only one thing, a loaded gun. I would just want to end it as fast as possible on my terms before I ended up like Hiroshi Ouchi or any of the poor guys who were killed by Chernobyl. gently caress science at that point, I wouldnt want to be a test subject. Just end it as painlessly and quickly as possible. The answer likely lies in the complexity and morality associated with Euthanasia laws.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:24
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Kraftwerk posted:The answer likely lies in the complexity and morality associated with Euthanasia laws. I imagine you are right, but gently caress that. Show the courts a few pictures of late stage poisoning and I honestly cant see how anyone would object to letting people die with some dignity.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:32
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Isn't it hard to know how much radiation you actually received until a full investigation is done? I mean, unless you happened to be wearing a very high range dosimeter. In addition to that, ARS isn't well understood, some people have survived surprising amounts of radiation.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:34
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hobbesmaster posted:You might've seen pictures of the new containment structure which goes over the entire structure at a distance. The original sarcophagus was done as quickly as possible and structurally relies on existing power plant buildings. Take a look at the clearance here: There's an episode of 'Impossible Engineering' all about the new structure. Worth tracking down, it's an impressive achievement.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:35
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Dalael posted:I think the real crime is that 700 000 bio-robots were there for months and we don't have 1 shot of the poor cafeteria workers who fed them all. What, are we suposed to think Legasov fed them all by himself? Totally unrealistic. Why couldn't they give 60 seconds to a fat line cook asking for more potatoes? They showed those guys, but as stated in the show, we don't know them so gently caress 'em.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:36
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FiftySeven posted:I imagine you are right, but gently caress that. Show the courts a few pictures of late stage poisoning and I honestly cant see how anyone would object to letting people die with some dignity.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:43
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Collapsing Farts posted:So am I. Check mate Dalael posted:If inconsequential bullshit triggers you like this, and it so happens that out of all the inconsequential bullshit we've seen, the only one being complained about is the woman scientist, you might just be misogynist and not realize it. Just sayin' Of course women can be antifeminist, but I can't figure out how you see that in my posts. I literally can't say enough that she was a good character, she wasn't a Mary Sue, she is realistic, I'm completely fine with her being the figurehead for all the scientists, Soviet women had greater representation in the sciences, etc. I'm saying that in every post, I'm not disagreeing with that at all, and I'm fighting with the shitheads who do. What I disagree with is the huge opportunity for a missed theme. What caused Chernobyl? Siloing of information, an absolutely garbage hostile team, and disrespect for scientists. What fixed Chernobyl? A bunch of scientists coming together, cooperating, sharing information and using scientific principles to figure out what happened and how to fix it as a functioning team that respects each other. That story is not just way more accurate, but also way more interesting than "will this one perfect man tell the truth in front of a few colleagues?" That's why I think showing the cooperation and teamwork and respect for scientific principles inherent in the solution is so important. Let me put it in all caps this time, SHE SHOULD STILL BE THE SCIENTISTS' LEADER/SPEAKER AND I DON'T WANT ANY MORE SPEAKING MALE ROLES.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:15
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FiftySeven posted:After reading more about radiation poisoning over the past few days, I am kind of just left wondering one thing. If someone has certainly taken a lethal dose, absolutely no questions asked, stupid amounts of radiation, why do they even bother trying to keep them alive? If I knew that I was in that situation, I would want only one thing, a loaded gun. I would just want to end it as fast as possible on my terms before I ended up like Hiroshi Ouchi or any of the poor guys who were killed by Chernobyl. gently caress science at that point, I wouldnt want to be a test subject. Just end it as painlessly and quickly as possible. Don't GIS Hiroshi Ouchi, the pictures were so gruesome.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:17
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etalian posted:Don't GIS Hiroshi Ouchi, the pictures were so gruesome. I second this advice. Can you see why I am of the opinion that it would just be better to euthanize someone in that state? Even if they did survive... even if they had the smallest chance... What sort of life would they have for what little time they managed to survive afterwards? I honestly don't think I have ever read about anything as haunting as the death of those 2 men.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:25
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I keep reading that the picture with the suspended limbs isn't actually him.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:27
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what do you expect to get? the truth? there is no truth.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:30
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Anne Whateley posted:What fixed Chernobyl? A bunch of scientists coming together, cooperating, sharing information and using scientific principles to figure out what happened and how to fix it as a functioning team that respects each other. Exactly how "Fixing Chernobyl" comes about is one of the least important things that makes this series good; the show's about political power and the abuse there-of. Did you just magically tune out when they showed working class citizens? This is a really silly hill to die on.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:33
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Combat Pretzel posted:I keep reading that the picture with the suspended limbs isn't actually him. I don't think it is, but there are some other pictures floating around which are unquestionably him and I think it was monstrous to let him suffer for so long in that condition.
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Jun 5, 2019 00:37
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