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Dr. Gargunza posted:I've missed these lately, never stop I had literally been thinking about asking lol but if they had continued it in another thread somewhere and I missed it, or if they were planning on continuing it or what, like, just yesterday, since we were getting to some of the best episodes in the series, but felt it would be awkward, at best, so I didn't.
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Jun 5, 2019 05:38
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:going to stop you right there Tempted to frame this one.
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Jun 5, 2019 05:49
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Dr. Gargunza posted:I've missed these lately, never stop This. B5 episode day is the best day.
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Jun 5, 2019 05:54
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the penalty for stepping on the flowers was twenty bucks. they knew they had a chance to get rid of wesley and they took it
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Jun 5, 2019 06:02
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Xenocides posted:Then because Star Trek cannot have nice consistent things Picard betrays his loyalties and mutinies and says "Screw Starfleet" over forcibly relocating non-Federation citizens in Insurrection. it's such a pointless bit of villainy. it's a big planet and there's all of, what, a few hundred space swedes? just go settle on the other side of the planet. what are they going to do about it? and even if you don't want to share the planet... just build a fuckin' space station in orbit! goddamn Geordi regrew his eyes just hanging out on the spaceship! not sure if this is better or worse than michael piller's previous idea for the movie, that literally all future medical technology uses up an irreplaceable, finite material and the planet just happens to have a huge vein of it
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Jun 5, 2019 06:42
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nah, picard was consistent at least. he did everything he could to convince the future maquis to relocate, but he didn't force them. the dipshits in insurrection weren't federation citizens, and the federation jumped immediately to abducting them. picard wasn't cool with any of that, which is probably the only part of that godawful movie which actually worked. as for why they couldn't just park a space station in orbit, if i remember it right the movie explained that this would not be fast enough and that the new technologies based on this non-renewable resource were needed to save the federation's economy. which is, well, hmm.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:11
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nah there wasn't anything about the economy. michael piller completely shot himself in the loving foot with having geordi's eyes grow in, though. like goddamn that's just, what, a couple days of being in orbit? and you're telling me that's not gonna heal up basically anything? for that matter how are the drat son'a still looking like a bunch of dried-up foreskins after spending weeks on and around the planet doing the federation "observation team" song-and-dance routine, when a couple days leaves the enterprise command crew feeling fresh and frisky? "it's a fountain of youth...... which works so fast that our heroes figure it out within like a few days..... but uhhhhhhhhh it's not good enough because... ummmmm............"
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Jun 5, 2019 07:36
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like i guess okay there was a line about "hey if we harvest this we can spread it out to billions across the federation". but seriously? just gonna use it up for a one time shot in the arm for the current citizens and then leave a husk of a planet behind? i mean that's america as gently caress but the feds should be better than that. you're an interstellar civilization. you could build habitats in orbit (and hell even on the other side of the planet away from the baku. it's a whole planet and they just have the one village. they're not gonna notice) to accommodate millions at a time, no problem.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:40
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:nah, picard was consistent at least. he did everything he could to convince the future maquis to relocate, but he didn't force them. the dipshits in insurrection weren't federation citizens, and the federation jumped immediately to abducting them. picard wasn't cool with any of that, which is probably the only part of that godawful movie which actually worked. as for why they couldn't just park a space station in orbit, if i remember it right the movie explained that this would not be fast enough and that the new technologies based on this non-renewable resource were needed to save the federation's economy. which is, well, hmm. I'm not going to watch Insurrection again, but I was positive that "Evil Admiral" said that the Federation needed the Sona, and that they would not live long enough for the planet to fix them naturally since they had irreparably damaged their bodies extending their lives this long.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:42
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so we are agreeing that the movie gave some kind of reason, but none of us are going to actually check what that reason was because it is insurrection.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:45
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I refuse to watch Anthony Zerbe in anything but The Omega Man
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Jun 5, 2019 07:48
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Bogus Adventure posted:I refuse to watch Anthony Zerbe in anything but The Omega Man <starts watching The Omega Man despite it being 12:54am> "drat you Bogus Adventure!"
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Jun 5, 2019 07:55
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Also, Memory Alpha is a thing: Regarding Admiral Matthew Dougherty: quote:In 2375, Dougherty entered into an alliance with the Son'a, led by Ahdar Ru'afo, to covertly relocate the Ba'ku from their home in an area of space known as "the Briar Patch," and then perform a procedure to collect metaphasic particles from the planet's rings. As this procedure would leave the planet uninhabitable, Dougherty and Ru'afo were forced to develop a plan whereby the Ba'ku would be transported to another planet using a holoship, leaving the Ba'ku completely unaware of what was transpiring. This would leave Dougherty and Ru'afo free to collect the particles, which had rejuvenating qualities, without killing the inhabitants. Although Dougherty had secured permission from the Federation Council to execute this mission, he actively attempted to prevent the details of the operation from reaching them, knowing that, if it were to be learned that the Federation had sanctioned the forced relocation of a peaceful people, public opinion would turn against him, and he would be unable to proceed. Computer, what are "metaphasic particles?" quote:Metaphasic radiation is a form of energy which, under certain conditions, reverses the aging process of most humanoid species, thereby prolonging the life of those who are exposed to it. Metaphasic radiation also has remarkable regenerative and rejuvenative properties, increasing the metabolism and energy levels of those irradiated by it. However, this increased health relies on constant exposure to the radiation; injuries healed by the radiation would eventually return to their previous state once the subject was no longer exposed to the radiation. Basically, they found a space panacea. Blistex posted:<starts watching The Omega Man despite it being 12:54am> It's still worth it.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:56
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lol but, never listen to the folks who hate on B5, your B5 recaps extremely belong in this thread and are cool & good.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:58
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Also, if you HAVEN'T watched The Omega Man, then you are missing out on the most super funkadelic swanky soundtrack ever, and also seeing Charlton Heston live out his dream of shooting hippies and dressing in fancy suits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM1gTXbFZds
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Jun 5, 2019 08:03
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The Omega Man owns, despite Heston being a giant piece of poo poo
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Jun 5, 2019 08:05
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Omega Man owns, despite Heston being a giant piece of poo poo Yeah. It's a shame he missed the point of every sci-fi movie that he was a part of, like Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, and The Omega Man.
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Jun 5, 2019 08:07
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Also, this scene will always make me laugh for every possible reason you can think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4sPM8ugSWc
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Jun 5, 2019 08:11
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Quicksilver6 posted:But you can just live anywhere in space, for free, with government assistance It was worse than that. They had kids and various non-combatants living in caves without proper food, medical care, or even furniture. Just so when federation peeps visit they can show the terrible conditions these civilians are living in. There was no excuse for that. Sure, when they are still on their colony world and trying to keep it, you could make an argument for keeping families together. But once you've lost that world and you're in a shooting war to get it back, don't keep the kids in a lovely dangerous camp. Those kids are federation citizens, the federation would be happy to send transports and evacuate them all to federation space. It's like they are hoping some kids get shot by cardies so they can wave the bloody shirt. And that's reprehensible.
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Jun 5, 2019 08:38
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dudeness posted:You would think the Federation would have citizens that moved past the concept of ownership of land and even more so entire loving planets. Most did. We don't see it, but I'm sure there were plenty of reasonable federation citizens who grumbled and got on the resettlement ships. Plenty of O'Brian types who would hate giving ground to the dirty cardies, but would never consider leaving their kids in danger to make a point. Those reasonable people probably left years ago. The maquis are recruited from the people who stayed in a warzone -for years- because they thought the federation would surely protect them at any cost. Then they feel betrayed when everyone decides it isn't worth sending anyone else to die in a war over a few extra dirt balls. The maquis are basically these guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZrIVXcpFas
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Jun 5, 2019 08:58
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Babylon 5 recaps rule HARD. I have pretty vague memories about the last episode (watched it when I was a kid), but I def. remember being freaked out when Garibaldi pulled out his tooth!
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Jun 5, 2019 09:50
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Bogus Adventure posted:Yeah. It's a shame he missed the point of every sci-fi movie that he was a part of, like Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, and The Omega Man. Ben Hur, if Gore Vidal is to be believed. I mean, its Vidal, so anything he says, you have to take with a grain of salt, but he claims to have told Stephen Boyd during filming, "I want you to play it like you and Ben Hur had been lovers before you went to Rome, and now you're back and want to start it up again, but he doesn't want to. But don't tell Chuck, because he wouldn't be able to handle it."
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Jun 5, 2019 12:32
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Facebook Aunt posted:Most did. We don't see it, but I'm sure there were plenty of reasonable federation citizens who grumbled and got on the resettlement ships. Plenty of O'Brian types who would hate giving ground to the dirty cardies, but would never consider leaving their kids in danger to make a point. Those reasonable people probably left years ago. There may be a couple of things in defense of the Maquis but we never really hear about it. Like how long were the colonies there? One DS9 episode states that one colonist has been there for twenty years, but doesn't say if the colony itself is much older than that. Another thing is was that considered a contested part of space before they setup colonies there, or were they already there a while when the Cardassians started expanding into that space? But yeah they're Federation citizens who could easily be relocated to anywhere else but they chose to stay and endanger their children knowing the Federation won't help them because...? The Federation should've just taken a cue from the Borg and just tractor beam the colonies to a different world if the colonists were so attached to them.
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Jun 5, 2019 13:04
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There's a lot of beneath-the-surface references that seem to imply that the Federation is very much the Perfect Space Utopia™ so long as you live in the core worlds near Earth, Andoria, Vulcan, etc. Think about how many TNG episodes had the premise of "wow, a Federation colony ship went missing near here with like 5,000 people aboard and we never went looking for them seriously enough to find them, but now we've found them and they're in an inconvenient place where a star's gonna explode" or something of that nature. If you were a Federation colonist and worked your rear end off to build a near-livable place for yourself and your family on an unfamiliar world, and then some bureaucrats having an argument with some other alien empire's bureaucrats causes you to get an email like "sorry fellas, pack it in, it's back on the super dangerous colony ships, you've gotta start somewhere else from scratch" I think it'd be pretty reasonable for more than 50% of the population to be like YEAH gently caress THAT AND gently caress YOU, SEND THE FLEET.
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Jun 5, 2019 14:08
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sweet geek swag posted:Obviously the Federation lost a war or something there. It is the only explanation.
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Jun 5, 2019 14:45
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FlamingLiberal posted:The UFP gets the short end of the stick on a lot of treaties for no real reason (see- Treaty of Algeron, where the UFP is banned from researching or making cloaking tech but it’s a-ok for the Romulans to do it). Well for a peaceful superpower the Federation does seem to be at war or has quite a few skirmishes with other powers a lot of the time. If it isn't the Klingons, it's the Romulans, or the Cardassians, or the Dominion or the Talarians or whoever. So maybe they make these treaties that don't favour them to prevent anyone from getting ideas of forming an alliance against them since the Federation has just gotten into another conflict with a differenct species while negotiating the treaty with the previous one.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:The UFP gets the short end of the stick on a lot of treaties for no real reason (see- Treaty of Algeron, where the UFP is banned from researching or making cloaking tech but it’s a-ok for the Romulans to do it). It's because the Federation only ever uses treaty negotiators from Pupulon V, home to a species that is basically just really credulous sentient beagles.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:24
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Blistex posted:I'm not going to watch Insurrection again, but I was positive that "Evil Admiral" said that the Federation needed the Sona, and that they would not live long enough for the planet to fix them naturally since they had irreparably damaged their bodies extending their lives this long. This harvest was supposed to be one of the most important things in the Federation and could potentially save it from the post war reconstruction and Admiral Dumbass agree to have the expedition led by three warships from a dangerous and violent species and he will just ride along. Seriously? Bring a triad of Starfleet ships to balance the power at least you idiot. What is to stop the Sona from harvesting the energy and running? Absolutely nothing. When the admiral died he deserved it in every conceivable way.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:56
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FlamingLiberal posted:The UFP gets the short end of the stick on a lot of treaties for no real reason (see- Treaty of Algeron, where the UFP is banned from researching or making cloaking tech but it’s a-ok for the Romulans to do it). It is never how valuable cloaking is. Sometimes it seems like it is a perfect invisibility shield and sometimes like it is pretty easy to penetrate. If it is the former a Romulan fleet could cruise up to Earth and just nuke it before anyone could react. This is supported by the DS9 episode where a warbird was hiding right off the station. EvilTaytoMan posted:Well for a peaceful superpower the Federation does seem to be at war or has quite a few skirmishes with other powers a lot of the time. If it isn't the Klingons, it's the Romulans, or the Cardassians, or the Dominion or the Talarians or whoever. So maybe they make these treaties that don't favour them to prevent anyone from getting ideas of forming an alliance against them since the Federation has just gotten into another conflict with a differenct species while negotiating the treaty with the previous one. I think the Dominion War establishes why. When the Federation first made contact with the Jem’hadar they made it clear that incursions into the Gamma Quadrant would be treated as violations of their space. So the Federation just keeps on sending ships through, sets up a Bajoran colony, and keeps exploring. If that is what they did when they ran into the Klingons, the Romulans, and the Cardassians it explains a lot. They declare war to get the Federation to just stop pushing into and colonizing in their borders. It would also explain why the Federation needed to evacuate people when they set the final border. Did they just start colonizing way behind Cardassian lines?
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Jun 5, 2019 16:03
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Xenocides posted:
It's also kind of weird why they're putting colonies on fresh planets that may be in dispute when they have class-M planets within their borders they still haven't touched (e.g. where they sent the Skkreeans). To an extent it feels weirdly "I put a flag here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" to make any claim on a planet you're not inhabiting or using.
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Jun 5, 2019 16:05
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You can't, like, OWN SPACE, maaaaaaaaaan
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Jun 5, 2019 16:17
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Pick posted:It's also kind of weird why they're putting colonies on fresh planets that may be in dispute when they have class-M planets within their borders they still haven't touched (e.g. where they sent the Skkreeans). Part of it is where they don't seem to bother to check to neighbourhood for any nearby species when they colonize a world, e.g. the colony that got destroyed by the Gorn.
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Jun 5, 2019 16:19
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Isn't it like a sorta interstellar prisoner dilemma? If they don't do it someone else will. The UFP seems to have a fairly aggressive initial stance to deliberately provoke small skirmishes that allow them to demonstrate their prowess and neatly end things with a treaty that their opponents are usually happy to sign because they think they're outmatched. Obviously the terms don't need to be particularly favorable for the UFP because they don't need anything they're king of the hill even with an arm behind their back. Going even deeper down the meta rabbit hole: at some point their policy became genre aware and realized "well as long as we've an Enterprise running around we'll come out alright"
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Jun 5, 2019 16:29
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also the UFP’s ultimate goal is peace so they just always “negotiate a treaty” and count on being able to gradually tempt foreign citizens to want to join the federation to get access to infinite free energy and replicators and non-stop-pornographic-holo-sleaze
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Jun 5, 2019 16:37
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Pick posted:It's also kind of weird why they're putting colonies on fresh planets that may be in dispute when they have class-M planets within their borders they still haven't touched (e.g. where they sent the Skkreeans). I mean, no doubt that's exactly what it is. You get colonies down on valuable planets or border/disputed planets because it's always easier to present a fait accomplishments. It's the same reason that in today's world, Israel is putting down settlements in strategically important parts of the West Bank along the Green Line, or why European countries were so quick to colonize North America and Africa...when a treaty gets negotiated, it's a big advantage to say "Well, we're already here, so...."
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Jun 5, 2019 16:52
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Part of it is where they don't seem to bother to check to neighbourhood for any nearby species when they colonize a world, e.g. the colony that got destroyed by the Gorn. I liked the SFU (Star Fleet Universe which is a game universe spun off of only TOS and TAS) take on the Fed/Gorn first meeting. They cannot reference it directly but refer to it as two hotheaded captains almost starting a war implying they were both idiots and they were. In the SFU the Feds and the Gorns end up good friends and allies to counterbalance the Romulans. Kirk seemed out of character in that episode. He has always been brazen but his revenge kick was a little extreme even for him. Then you run into the Metrons who are so advanced and civilized they make Kirk and the Gorn captain fight to the death and I get the impression Roddenberry thinks these are good transcendent god-beings. No wonder he hated religion if those are the good guys.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:41
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When I paused
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Jun 5, 2019 19:12
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Onkel Hedwig posted:When I paused 
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Jun 5, 2019 19:14
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Onkel Hedwig posted:When I paused *Adds “martial arts competition” to my list of euphemisms*
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Jun 5, 2019 19:24
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Maquis were so bad and so loving wrong. Their entirely arguments boiled down to sacred clay and gold-fringed flags. They were a mix of settler-colonialist nationalists and free-men-on-the-land all LARPing as oppressed freedom fighters.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:26
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