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Spudalicious
Dec 24, 2003

I <3 Alton Brown.
I just want to say, I've been murdered several times on PowderKeg's server, it's PVP. If someone mows you down while you're lording over the last few rooms in a poi and walks off with your entire haul, don't get mad, get even!

gently caress Rage forever.

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Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

It's obviously fun, to a certain extent, to develop feuds with individuals or groups and go back and forth raiding and killing each other. I understand the allure of PVP.

However, I also think there is a difference between killing someone in the wild and stealing their inventory, vs. raiding their base while they are offline, destroying everything and stealing everything they had collected or crafted up to that point.

I can't "get even", as I have nothing left. I had a solar bank with several 5-6 quality solar cells and it's gone, for instance. I don't even know who did it, much less where their base is. So the game is quite literally over for me.

You can try to justify it as "well, it's PVP" as much as you want. I reserve the right to point out that what was done qualifies as "griefing" and it is hosed up.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.

Dinosaur Gum

enraged_camel posted:

However, I also think there is a difference between killing someone in the wild and stealing their inventory, vs. raiding their base while they are offline, destroying everything and stealing everything they had collected or crafted up to that point.


Yeah this happened to me in a previous server, and I just gave up because it just felt really gross.

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.
A testament to building your main base underground and making a secret hatch in a poo poo non-POI building.

Molothecat
Jul 25, 2007

Wrath, hate, pain, and death!

Spudalicious posted:

gently caress Rage forever.

lol

Strength through adversity. I'm gonna whip this server into fighting shape.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

You didn't fight though, you just griefed. There is no "strength" in raiding and destroying someone's base while they are offline, is there?

Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 5, 2019

PowderKeg
Apr 5, 2003
Should I change the PVP setting on the server? Historically, this has been a "gentleman's agreement" kind of place with the occasional "oops, I shot you". I can admin you the stuff to set up again..

PowderKeg fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 5, 2019

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

PowderKeg posted:

Should I change the PVP setting on the server? Historically, this has been a "gentleman's agreement" kind of place with the occasional "oops, I shot you". I can admin you the stuff to set up again..

Yeah, that's what I thought too. The only reason I opted to spend IRL weeks on this server, and the reason why I set up my base where it is, and the way it is, was because I expected people to be respectful. I've come across several bases while exploring, and left them alone.

I'm OK with PvP as long as it is against pubbies. I thought that's what the recent conversation was about : removing the password so they can join and we can crush them together. I'm here for a sense of community, and some of my best memories from other games are in such "goons vs. pubbies" context.

But if people want to keep things the way they are, and continue griefing each other, no big deal. I'll go find a PvE server and carebear there from now on.

PowderKeg posted:

I can admin you the stuff to set up again..

I think I'm going to take a break until A18. There were way too many items that were stolen anyway. It would be hard to replace everything. Thanks though, I appreciate the offer.

bamboopuppy
Jul 18, 2005
Don't worry, I made some "improvements" to Molo & co's base. I'm sure they will like it.

If you want what they stole back, I can show you everything I borrowed from them when I'm on later. Except the Solar panels. They destroyed mine too which is unforgivable.

Molothecat
Jul 25, 2007

Wrath, hate, pain, and death!

B-b-b-b-but the gentlemen's agreement!

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

B-b-b-b-but strength through adversity!!! :downs:

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.
Speaking of, how do land claim blocks work? I was under the impression you couldn't deactivate people's blocks unless you wailed away at it.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

You can't place blocks inside another player's land claim area, and their blocks get a large multiplier to hitpoints.

I think I left my front door open when leaving the base though, so he probably just walked in.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

Some new stuff coming in A18:

Lootable army truck:


"Junk Turret" (no details unfortunately):


Sidewalks and boulevards:


New sedans:


New "ghille suit" with the new M60:


Spear:


They are also making some other notable changes:

- New books that add small, permanent bonuses, and if you find all the books in a single category, you get a big bonus. List here
- They are reducing zombie damage on blocks when there is only one zombie. So a single zombie can pound on the wall for hours and not do much, but if it's 3-4 they will be able to break down even the strongest block fairly quickly.
- Big nerf coming to mining helmet. Devs know that it's by far the best helm currently and a no-brainer to use. They said they are tired of every screenshot showing a player with a mining helmet because there is no reason to wear anything else. In A18 it will be the equivalent of a tier 1 scrap helmet, and will come with a Helmet Flashlight mod that you will be able to remove and attach to other things.
- New RWG will have hills, rivers and winding roads.
- TNT and C4 as explosives.
- High rez item icons (you can see some in the screenshots above)

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Molothecat posted:

lol

Strength through adversity. I'm gonna whip this server into fighting shape.

:downs:

Molothecat
Jul 25, 2007

Wrath, hate, pain, and death!


come play in the server sillybones

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.

Dinosaur Gum
Can you maybe make the claim size larger or make the multiplier higher? This still requires people to lock their doors etc.

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.

redreader posted:

Can you maybe make the claim size larger or make the multiplier higher? This still requires people to lock their doors etc.

There are server settings to that effect. Claim strength multiplier can be set from 1 to 32 times. A seperate setting entirely for claim blocks when the owner(s) are offline.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

Drakenel posted:

There are server settings to that effect. Claim strength multiplier can be set from 1 to 32 times. A seperate setting entirely for claim blocks when the owner(s) are offline.

Something like 6-8x online, and 32x offline seems to dissuade assholes. Two dudes can still ninja all your poo poo when you're online if you're faffing about in the city and they sneak in and auger down all your doors. Offline raiding should be about as punishing as possible for the raiders while still being a thing, otherwise you'll have people do a tactical logout in order to save their goodies.

It's a shame that the best PVP base is the bedrock box, due to the fact that getting zombies to undermine the base is entirely too easy most of the time. Turrets at least make offline raiding a bit harder, depending on how you have them set up.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



One thing I wonder is how long can they fund this level of development. Surely not enough people are still buying it right now for this many people to be working on it

PowderKeg
Apr 5, 2003
8x online, and 32x offline is what's up on the server now.

Molothecat
Jul 25, 2007

Wrath, hate, pain, and death!

Methylethylaldehyde posted:

seems to dissuade assholes

Never

Maguoob
Dec 26, 2012

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

One thing I wonder is how long can they fund this level of development. Surely not enough people are still buying it right now for this many people to be working on it

Well they are a rather small team of people and have sold over 2.5 million copies (on PC), so as long as they aren't paying themselves a super high salary they shouldn't have any financial issues for many more years. It isn't like they're super far down on steam's top sellers list (page 5 atm), but I don't know how much money that is especially since revenue based lists tend to have huge fall offs after the top few spots.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



Most of the time I expect a dev team to go hog wild and run out of money.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

They must have many millions in the bank from 2.5 million sales. It’s hard to run out of that kind of money with a small team, especially since not all of them are even developers.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

More big changes in A18

Lots of people complained about the new skill system and level gating. Sounds like pendulum is swinging hard in the other direction:

(Quoting the lead dev):

quote:

Originally Posted by madmole View Post
I've been successfully pumping just one attribute and grab just a tiny bit from the other attributes when the RNJ doesn't cooperate.

You now spawn with 3 rows unencumbered and can craft enough pockets to completely remove all encumbrance without a single point of STR. There are schematics or books to unlock everything now so if you can be patient you don't have to buy the perk unlocks. You gain 1 HP and one Stamina each level, and stamina costs are not a problem any more you can left click all but two handed weapons endlessly at level 1. Sex Rex is mainly for less stamina use on combat but with my str build I didn't need it at all, I had plenty of stamina one shotting most zeds.

Workbench is unlocked at INT 4 or you can find them in the world, or buy them at traders or the schematic.

Farming I don't really think you need perks at that. Maybe one rank is all I'd buy, but TBH I don't farm until mid to late game, I find plenty of food. Recipes unlock foods now, so the perk is optional.

A18 is more about playing how you want to play, not using what you are given. Sometimes you do that a bit but eventually you get what you need to play your style. Agility governs bows, blades (not axes anymore), pistol, magnum and SMG, and stealth. So if your the sneaky type that should be your go to perk. It sounds to me like you would be a strength or fortitude guy. Of course you can have both if your patient. I'd recommend going heavy into the most useful one for your style, and then lightly into a second, again depending on play style and cherry pick a few others. So far I've avoided INT entirely with STR and AGL builds and its great. Knowing I can unlock something by a schematic keeps me looting instead of wasting points. Once you get to rank 3-5 of your weapon you are a badass even with a tier 2 weapon at least agains non ferals then you keep scaling with gear as you go to keep up with ferals and radiated.

But on day one its tough killing a zombie can be hard, but as you buy ranks that increase damage with your favorite melee and ranged you are smashing basic zeds pretty easily, then the ferals come and you can handle 1 or 2 maybe but then need armor and can start dealing with them and handle them, then radiated come and you need better gear, this is the mid to late game stretch where you loot for the best gear because crafting isn't worth it or going to rock against these tougher zeds.

Anyhow, we've worked really hard on decoupling the NEED for any one perk. SOme people will argue you still need it but you don't. You could play the game with no perks now, there is enough gear upgrades I think it would be viable.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

lead-dev posted:

I'll let the cat out on this. Zombies can get aggro when hit and nearly run now. It can go from slow to a brisk walk to nearly sprinting. It makes combat a lot scarier because they can suddenly sort of lunge at you. Hitting them again seems to sometimes slow them back down, but it is very cool. Sorry if your an always walk guy. I mean they don't just turn feral if thats what you reading here, mostly its a small increase in speed, just enough to make you feel a little uneasy and cause them to close the gap and hit you a bit more.

On the plus side, (IMO both are a huge plus, zombies were zero threat before and I didn't need armor at all) players now have a glancing blow so as you swipe your sword across a guy it might hit his arm and then hit his face for the intended hit. If you miss by a milimeter you will get a glancing blow, so less missed head shots that result in nothing at all, and it kind of helps make combat feel less binary.

Fayk
Aug 2, 2006

Sorry, my brain doesn't work so good...
Tweaks to make melee less of being effectively a magical short-ranged hitscan bullet at the right point is a good idea.

Though imagine if this was a game where your swings were physical and anything hit by them would be affected, including cleaving, etc. (and scale enemy count to match as needed to not trivialize all combat). The melee just could be made to 'feel' a lot better.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away
I don't see why they don't go that route, even now. It would be such a huge upgrade and it is not some impossible task.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

It would actually be a lot of work, because each weapon has its own animations, so if you gave weapons their own hitbox then you would also need to give them different animations so that players can control what they are hitting.

Melee can definitely use improvement though. I would like to see kick/shove, as well as maybe parry/block that drains a lot of stamina and only works if you time it right. But I think those are even less likely than weapons gaining their own hitboxes.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

enraged_camel posted:

It would actually be a lot of work, because each weapon has its own animations, so if you gave weapons their own hitbox then you would also need to give them different animations so that players can control what they are hitting.
Currently there are two animations total, I think. One for one-handed weapons (stone axe, machete, club) and one for two-handed weapons. The animations are all the same for each of those two categories. Each weapon may have its own hitbox though.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

quote:

Gear Changes:
Quality now influences damage output on tools, firearms and melee weapons. Quality influences armor protection values.
All items with quality now have random stats in loot. Players craft with static stats in the middle of the range. It is possible that a brown pistol is superior to a yellow one, but not likely. Check the stats of every thing you find.
Weapons and armor now have scaling recipe costs, so the higher the quality the more materials are needed to craft the item.
The governing attribute determines the quality of crafting. For example the shotgun messiah perk governs the quality of shotguns you can craft, and the gunslinger perk governs the quality of crafted pistols, SMG and magnums.

:woop:

Fayk
Aug 2, 2006

Sorry, my brain doesn't work so good...

This is probably good - as long as this represents the best loot being better than what's currently out there. If they just moved the bars balance-wise so crafted stuff (at any tier) is worse, then gross..

Edit: Random bonuses and adds instead of just the damage stats would be fun though.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

I think they said crafted stuff at any tier will be at the middle of that tier quality-wise, with no random bonuses. This will encourage players to continue exploring and looting. And sometimes, random bonuses on a looted item will make it better than even items of one tier above.

Fayk
Aug 2, 2006

Sorry, my brain doesn't work so good...
They did, I just meant that vis-a-vis current balance of those tiers vs enemies (hp etc) that I'm hoping that 'middle of the tier' is the same mechanical effect (damage, etc) as it is right now. Otherwise this is a stealth-nerf just so we can try to play a bad diablo hover-over-items-to-see-if-it's better, which has a major problem: the better your item is, the worse the signal-to-noise ratio will be for finding something better (because it's not like the game will highlight them a different color)

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Fayk posted:

They did, I just meant that vis-a-vis current balance of those tiers vs enemies (hp etc) that I'm hoping that 'middle of the tier' is the same mechanical effect (damage, etc) as it is right now. Otherwise this is a stealth-nerf just so we can try to play a bad diablo hover-over-items-to-see-if-it's better, which has a major problem: the better your item is, the worse the signal-to-noise ratio will be for finding something better (because it's not like the game will highlight them a different color)
Yeah I'm a little tentative about these changes because the game currently is bad about how it communicates differences in gear you are wearing, so I dont have much faith that I will have an easy way to compare and contrast my existing items with new ones I loot. Right now I like the fact that I can just take all my loot from a PoI and scrap the low quality low durability items and try to sell the rest, but now I am going to have to investigate every. single. item. to see if it is worth keeping? Sounds tedious to me.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

Tediousness is possible. It reminds me of Borderlands, where the sheer amount of variations between weapons and their stats was great for a while, but eventually became overwhelming. While I don't see things getting that bad here (BL weapons could also inflict various status effects, and could have different firing mechanisms, etc.), I do agree there's a risk.

That said, I prefer the new system, the way it is described by the lead dev. Because currently in A17, once you craft the best gear, looting becomes almost completely pointless. Why raid long and dangerous dungeons with quality 6 gear if there is zero chance that what you get at the end will at best be the same as what you have now?

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

enraged_camel posted:

That said, I prefer the new system, the way it is described by the lead dev. Because currently in A17, once you craft the best gear, looting becomes almost completely pointless.
Fair Enough.

enraged_camel posted:

Why raid long and dangerous dungeons with quality 6 gear if there is zero chance that what you get at the end will at best be the same as what you have now?
Because you may find a beaker at the end :haw:

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Just fell back into this dead gay zombie game. Almost survived Night 7, then I fell into my own trench. While it was occupied. :downs:

Edit: Did they remove Wood Log Spikes? I can't find them. Wood Spikes cost a reasonable amount of wood again, but they're so drat fragile (and can't be repaired?)

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Nosfereefer
Jun 15, 2011

IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM
Passive traps got a big nerf, so at best you'll get the forged iron spikes.

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