|
Ema Nymton posted:I want to buy a new Ryzen 5 CPU when the new series is released, in hopes that they'll drop in price. Or will they go out of stock instead? I'm confused, this sounds like you're talking about 3000 series Ryzen here, but down below it sounds like you're talking about 1000/2000 series that's currently released? I wouldn't be worried at all about 2000 series chips going out of stock anytime soon. You can still buy most of the 1000 series quite easily (and cheaply), so I'd assume you'll be able to get the more common 2000 series chips for another year or so.
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2019 23:32
|
|
Should I buy now or wait a few weeks to see if they'll go any lower?
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 06:38 |
|
|
I think in general wait and see is the best approach for anyone interested in any AMD CPU. The 3000s are so close, and things are likely to get shaken up so much, that it's silly to try to guess too much ahead of time. Fun, but silly.SwissArmyDruid posted:Speaking of speculation that may or may not be true: Demerjian's got a new piece out on Intel: https://semiaccurate.com/2019/06/05/a-look-at-intels-ice-lake-and-sunny-cove/ I understand that the big data market is more important, but AMD's laziness about destroying Intel in the laptop market has been and continues to be ridiculous. They simply cannot compete with AMD IGPs, I don't understand why AMD doesn't just do whatever it takes to get that product stack ready and take over the entire IGP laptop market (which is the vast majority of the laptop market).
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I think in general wait and see is the best approach for anyone interested in any AMD CPU. The 3000s are so close, and things are likely to get shaken up so much, that it's silly to try to guess too much ahead of time. Fun, but silly. OEMs generally refuse to make good AMD laptops. It’s hard to take over a market you can’t participate in
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 00:23
|
|
|
AMD's issue is that most laptop buyers don't care about the IGP (or even know it exists), and the users that do buy laptops with discrete GPUs. Laptops that AMD doesn't compete very well in in either CPU or dGPU, at the moment. Zen2 and a 7nm Navi might help there, but that's still months away. AMD also has the issue that big graphics core = more expensive to produce, more heat, and more power draw at max, which means something has to give to fit in the 15w power window that all of the nice laptops with tasty profit margins sit in. And what gives is the boost clocks. You can see that pretty obviously when you look at the 3700U (15w) vs 3750H (35w) that are absolutely identical on paper. One can actually get to the advertised boost clocks occasionally, the other rarely will. A Zen 2 + Navi MCM, or even a monolithic APU, will address some of that. But Intel will be shipping (lol, so they say) Ice Lake U with its improved IGP by Fall, so I don't know how much ground AMD can really make up. Cygni fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 00:35
|
|
|
I had an acer ferrari branded laptop that was a turion 64 and it was actually a great machine. Didn’t give a crap about ferrari or anything, the specs to price ratio was really good at the time. Was actually fine for gaming and solidly built. That was my first and only amd laptop
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 00:39
|
|
|
Number19 posted:OEMs generally refuse to make good AMD laptops. It’s hard to take over a market you can’t participate in Intel is highly competitive with AMD in the laptop space though, and with Ice Lake's IPC increases they should have a notable CPU advantage. IGPU I don't know, but for many laptop users all that matters is video playback on the GPU front. Khorne fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jun 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 01:12
|
|
|
priznat posted:I had an acer ferrari branded laptop that was a turion 64 and it was actually a great machine. Didn’t give a crap about ferrari or anything, the specs to price ratio was really good at the time. Was actually fine for gaming and solidly built. The power management was absolute crap on those things. Sure, if you were using it as a portable desktop always on AC it was ok, but holy hell was the battery life bad compared to what Intel was offering.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 02:43
|
|
|
BangersInMyKnickers posted:The power management was absolute crap on those things. Sure, if you were using it as a portable desktop always on AC it was ok, but holy hell was the battery life bad compared to what Intel was offering. Yeah it was basically a portable desktop for me and I was on ac when I used it, but I recall could get a couple hours off it if I had to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 02:49
|
|
|
BeastOfExmoor posted:I'm confused, this sounds like you're talking about 3000 series Ryzen here, but down below it sounds like you're talking about 1000/2000 series that's currently released? Yes, it's 1000/2000 series that I'm eyeing right now. I'm hoping that when the new 3000 CPUs are released and benchmarked they'll test well and cause prices of the previous CPUs to decrease. Maybe some retailers will want to move the old stock. I am not in desperate need for a new PC at all, so I can't justify the cost without getting some deals. It's probably safe to wait.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 03:55
|
|
|
Ema Nymton posted:Yes, it's 1000/2000 series that I'm eyeing right now. I'm hoping that when the new 3000 CPUs are released and benchmarked they'll test well and cause prices of the previous CPUs to decrease. Maybe some retailers will want to move the old stock. Yeah I'd just wait and watch for deals on the R5 1600 or 2600, I've seen the 1600 going for as cheap as $70 in a combo deal with a motherboard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
Ema Nymton posted:Yes, it's 1000/2000 series that I'm eyeing right now. I'm hoping that when the new 3000 CPUs are released and benchmarked they'll test well and cause prices of the previous CPUs to decrease. Maybe some retailers will want to move the old stock. You're not by a Microcenter, right? They have had an absolutely killer deal on the 1600 + Motherboard for the last few months. If I lived by a Microcenter I'd have bought one for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 06:22
|
|
|
My last AMD was an Athlon XP 2100+ It ran really hot
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 07:21
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I understand that the big data market is more important, but AMD's laziness about destroying Intel in the laptop market has been and continues to be ridiculous. They simply cannot compete with AMD IGPs, I don't understand why AMD doesn't just do whatever it takes to get that product stack ready and take over the entire IGP laptop market (which is the vast majority of the laptop market). They just don't have the manpower. Well that, and the technology that would let them completely wipe the floor with Intel (HBM on interposer/silicon bridge) isn't economically viable for mainstream products yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 10:01
|
|
|
priznat posted:I had an acer ferrari branded laptop that was a turion 64 and it was actually a great machine. Didn’t give a crap about ferrari or anything, the specs to price ratio was really good at the time. Was actually fine for gaming and solidly built. I bought my brother a used Acer laptop that happened to have one of those Ryzen APUs (can't remember if it was a 2200U or 2500U). For the short time I had it before shipping it off to him, it wasn't a bad laptop. He games on it and hasn't had any complaints.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 15:18
|
|
|
Maybe laptops are too risky because ARM (Apple A12X and upcoming Snapdragon 8cx) is starting to get in that performance territory already.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
Balliver Shagnasty posted:I bought my brother a used Acer laptop that happened to have one of those Ryzen APUs (can't remember if it was a 2200U or 2500U). For the short time I had it before shipping it off to him, it wasn't a bad laptop. He games on it and hasn't had any complaints. Yeah, Ryzen laptops are fine & good. The drivers right around launch were a bit buggy, but it's been ironed out by now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
There are some new Thinkpads with AMD stuff that look pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 18:52
|
|
|
I think it just takes more time for laptops to get to market, there are more complications with fitting all the pieces together. Especially when you don't have a recent design to modify slightly since you've been mostly ignoring AMD for a decade.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 18:56
|
|
|
Alpha Mayo posted:Maybe laptops are too risky because ARM (Apple A12X and upcoming Snapdragon 8cx) is starting to get in that performance territory already. Those are 5W or less parts, laptop CPUs will always be able to do more with 15W or whatever parts are typically in bigger laptops.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:00
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Those are 5W or less parts, laptop CPUs will always be able to do more with 15W or whatever parts are typically in bigger laptops. Put 2 in for SMP 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:05
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Those are 5W or less parts, laptop CPUs will always be able to do more with 15W or whatever parts are typically in bigger laptops. I wonder what clocks the A12X is capable of if you shove 15W through them, and have the active cooling to sustain it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:08
|
|
|
Progressive JPEG posted:My last AMD was an Athlon XP 2100+ My last one was a socket 939 Athlon X2... 4800+, I think. But then there's only one desktop CPU between that and my current Intel Haswell processor. I might well be going back to AMD on my next CPU, who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:18
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:I think in general wait and see is the best approach for anyone interested in any AMD CPU. The 3000s are so close, and things are likely to get shaken up so much, that it's silly to try to guess too much ahead of time. Fun, but silly. I think it comes down to focusing their resources on one product at a time/not being able to afford to tape out two major products at once, with a dash of being able to port over any errata fixes they turn up in the server dies over to the laptop dies. Desktop dies are just never going to be a good fit for the laptop market. Not having an iGPU is a non-starter, if you are running a discrete GPU all the time you've killed your power budget. Also, the infinity fabric has a substantial power cost to push all that data around. Infinity Fabric pulls 25W on a 2700X running at full tilt and it only drops to 17.5W at idle (and I don't think that includes the memory controller itself either). That's basically the entire power budget of a smaller processor. In contrast a 8700K's uncore pulls 7.5W at full load and 2W at idle. Maybe that changes with chiplet-based APUs, but you still have the infinity fabric pushing a lot of data over to another die, which is not power efficient. Just a few watts here can basically tank the processor since you're only playing with maybe a 15W budget in total for everything. So it very much is necessary to have a separate monolithic die for laptops, unlike the rest of the lineup where they can press server dies into service. From there it's just a decision of whether they go forward with both in parallel (which they may eventually start doing once the design is more mature) or whether they pick one to go first, and then if so which. Frankly out of both of their designs, the Ryzen/Epyc line is better than Raven Ridge. Raven Ridge actually underperforms the Zeppelin-based products (2200G/2400G vs 1300X/1500X) by a fair bit at equivalent clocks, part of which is probably the smaller cache, but regardless it is a lower performer. And it's not as power efficient as the Intel chips either, whether that's down to infinity fabric power consumption or just their node disadvantage. In contrast Epyc is straight-up ahead of Xeon now and Ryzen is going to match up to the consumer stuff while offering higher core counts for the money. So picking one or the other, Ryzen/Epyc is the sensible pick over APUs, imo. (I am really curious what Infinity Fabric power consumption will be like on Zen2, both Ryzen and Rome. This is really one of the money questions for further scaling, because IF pulls half of the total package power (~85W) on Epyc 7601 according to Anandtech. And you might expect that PHY power will not shrink as much as core power, so as nodes shrink and chiplet count increases the Infinity Fabric may start consuming a larger and larger fraction of the total power budget. This mode of scaling is not "free" either, there are always tradeoffs in engineering...)   
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:29
|
|
|
Laptop CPUs also are very common in the embedded market, for what it's worth. While AMD and (almost certainly) Intel provide embedded specific packages, sometimes it's easier just to grab a laptop CPU out of the bin and slap it on a SBC and call it a day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
Just think, in five more years, AMD will be free of that goddamn WSA and then they won't have to do the 14nm memory controller anymore!
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 20:40
|
|
|
iospace posted:Laptop CPUs also are very common in the embedded market, for what it's worth. While AMD and (almost certainly) Intel provide embedded specific packages, sometimes it's easier just to grab a laptop CPU out of the bin and slap it on a SBC and call it a day. Yeah the embedded parts are more limited because there are commitments on a longer product lifespan. (ie, it'll be available for 10 years or whatever)
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
Did the 2000 series undervolt as well as the 1000 series? IIRC folks were getting 1700s and 1800Xs down to like 35W. That always seemed really promising to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 21:06
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Yeah the embedded parts are more limited because there are commitments on a longer product lifespan. (ie, it'll be available for 10 years or whatever) Yup. The company I worked at used i7s and Atoms. Last check they have a new Atom line and use Xeons. Oops.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 21:19
|
|
|
NewFatMike posted:Did the 2000 series undervolt as well as the 1000 series? IIRC folks were getting 1700s and 1800Xs down to like 35W. That always seemed really promising to me. It undervolted even better than the 1000 series, 2000 series can maintain similar clocks to the 1000 series but at much lower voltages. Gamersnexus wrote a nice article about it. https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3290-exponential-ryzen-voltage-frequency-curve
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 21:29
|
|
|
SwissArmyDruid posted:Just think, in five more years, AMD will be free of that goddamn WSA and then they won't have to do the 14nm memory controller anymore!
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 21:41
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I thought IO and signalling works better on matured processes? If IO doesn't shrink at all, does it reduce in power at all either? It doesn't seem like the physics involved in things like parasitics would be impacted by the transistors on either side... I thought that was kind of the point in having the IO die be on an old node.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 22:14
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I thought IO and signalling works better on matured processes? I think it's more that it doesn't scale as well so might as well use a cheap node, I think they will shrink the IO die eventually but no need to use the cutting edge node.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 22:51
|
|
|
B-Mac posted:It undervolted even better than the 1000 series, 2000 series can maintain similar clocks to the 1000 series but at much lower voltages. Gamersnexus wrote a nice article about it.  That rules. I'm hoping the 7nm based APUs are cool because I'd like to put together a little portable machine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
How much (%-wise) do you think the older 1000/2000 AMD CPUs will go down once July 7th rolls around? I assume it's worth waiting for but just curious what people think the discount (if any) will be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
FanofPortals posted:How much (%-wise) do you think the older 1000/2000 AMD CPUs will go down once July 7th rolls around? I assume it's worth waiting for but just curious what people think the discount (if any) will be. I can see them trying to clearance the 1000 series ones, while focusing strictly on the 2000 and 3000 series. I'm going to guess 80-90% of current MSRP though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2019 23:05
|
|
|
The 1600 is already going for 119$ on etailers, dropping further means it start competing against Pentiums and that's just nuts. Right now 1200 for 69.99 1600 for 119.99 2600 for 150.99 1700 for 159.99 That's...really hard to beat. I mean yes the Core i5-9400F is 159.99 as well and does beat the 2600 and 1700 marginally in games IIRC but the next closest competitor is really the i5-9600K or KF and that's 259.99, a hundred dollar premium for an additional 1Ghz on average, and it's getting direct competition with the R5 3600 which will likely clock to 4.45Ghz all core as a safe bet and be pretty drat close to the 9600K @ 5.0Ghz anyway, blow it away in multithreading and cost 60$ cheaper. If we're talking cheap productivity the prices are already killer right now, making them cheaper might undermine Ryzen 3000 sales on a perf/price metric. I mean the 1700 is half the cost of a 3700X, but there is no way it's half the performance. Honestly I don't see a way for Intel to beat Ryzen 3000 with Comet Lake without mimicking AMDs approach. Enable Hyperthreading across the stack, lock only Pentiums and Celerons and bin the hell out of the SKUs. 10C/20T i9s, 8C/16T i7s, 6/12T i5s, 4C/8T i3s.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
Whitepaper on DDR5 from Micron, key point being this.quote:DDR5 is the fifth-generation double data rate (DDR) SDRAM, and the feature enhancements from DDR4 to  https://twitter.com/chiakokhua/status/1136635594140839936?s=19 This will allow more cores without being choked by dual channel but more importantly this will allow APUs to be much more powerful as their main limitation right now is the memory bandwidth of DDR4.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
EmpyreanFlux posted:The 1600 is already going for 119$ on etailers, dropping further means it start competing against Pentiums and that's just nuts. If youre in the US and got a microcenter nearby, you can get one for $80 with a $30 motherboard credit. They also had a $65 B350 Asrock board in stock last time i was there, so $115 together. If you need a super cheapo build for someone, really hard to beat that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
Watch as every OEM proceeds to single-channel "because it's basically dual-channel now" the crap out of their computers and throw their hands up, bewildered at why things have gone so horribly wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 06:38 |
|
|
My last AMD was an X2 ages ago for a low-power build. I think I want a 3900X to toss together a build-server / Linux workhorse at the office now. 12C/24T for $500 is loving nuts. Asus put up a nice article detailing the differences between all their families of motherboards which I appreciated. Looks like they are planning a workstation board on X570 which is awesome. If it comes with a lovely little on-board GPU that would be the tits. I feel dirty cheating after 20 years of running Intel hardware but can't justify the $$$ for performance here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2019 19:31
|
|
