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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah in Xanathar's Guide. I still think I get partial credit on that one.
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Jun 7, 2019 04:04
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With arguably one exception, comparing D&D editions with one another in terms of "better" or "worse" is like arguing about which is better between a regular and philips-head screwdriver. They're both good in some circumstances and bad in others. What really matters is knowing how you are going to get screwed.
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Jun 7, 2019 04:40
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MonsterEnvy posted:Not much of a change from AD&D. I remember my friend pointing that out in the AD&D monster manual/fiend folio or whatever book they were in and talking about how stupid they were. I didn't think they would ever bring Lava Children back of all things.
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Jun 7, 2019 06:36
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Late to Bonus Action chat. But it's funny how quickly "no action economy, you can all do one thing." went out the window. Iirc it started with Healing Word sometime after the Penny Arcade guys did a pre-livegame podcast. Tycho went off about how 4e solved a major issue of playing healers in that you could Healing/Inspiring/Whatever Word and attack or do something else. Then Perkins awkwardly mentioned that he couldn't do that in the Next Playtest.
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Jun 7, 2019 07:36
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One of the idea's the designers came up with their hindsight was to make Categories for stuff like attacks with multiple actions. Sage Advice posted:You just need to glue the appropriate actions together - for instance, Two-Weapon Fighting is just a special attack action. But this was also stated at the same time so don't expect anything like that to be implemented soon. quote:With all that said, nothing that requires a new edition. We'll do that when players and DMs ask for it. Nowhere near that now.
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Jun 7, 2019 07:46
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quote:Instead of there being an Attack action, you'd have Attack as a category with new class-exclusive options added to it. Cleaner design. So the attack category for actions would contain generic things like melee attacks, ranged attacks, spell attacks, and so on, as well as class specific abilities such as extra attacks, pet attacks, etc and also include things like activatable extra damage abilities etc?
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Jun 7, 2019 08:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:One of the idea's the designers came up with their hindsight was to make Categories for stuff like attacks with multiple actions. I feel like there are a bunch of things that break if you get rid of a "minor action" equivalent, like features of magical items and some class features like the Rogue Cunning Action and some spells. IMO the issue isn't with the turn structure where you can move and along the way do a big thing, a little thing, and an incidental thing; it's with confusing naming and natural language rule writing combined with poor playtesting and "no you shut the gently caress up dad" rejection of lessons from previous editions.
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Jun 7, 2019 08:18
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BattleMaster posted:IMO the issue isn't with the turn structure where you can move and along the way do a big thing, a little thing, and an incidental thing; it's with confusing naming and natural language rule writing combined with poor playtesting and "no you shut the gently caress up dad" rejection of lessons from previous editions. I agree completely with this. There's lots of stuff that needs the basic big thing/little thing/incidental thing setup to be balanced. Some spells absolutely need to not count as your action to justify their value, Misty Step being an example that comes to mind.
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Jun 7, 2019 09:04
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That and things like Shield/Absorb Elements/Counterspell where not having a specified type of Action for them could make things a little tricky. You'd also have the situation of going "Okay, I've not used my Action this round. But do I want to burn it to try and avoid being damaged/take half damage/possibly stop this spell."
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Jun 7, 2019 09:41
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BattleMaster posted:I feel like there are a bunch of things that break if you get rid of a "minor action" equivalent, like features of magical items and some class features like the Rogue Cunning Action and some spells. Dump "minor action" and keep "free action" alongside the multiple-spell rule (unless using a specific thing that breaks this rule, if you cast a spell as a free action on your turn you cannot cast another spell unless it is a cantrip). "Reaction" stays, which covers spells cast as a reaction. "Bonus action" spells become free action spells. Rewrite other items and abilities. Cunning Action becomes "when you move on your turn, you may do one of the following: treat that movement as if you had taken the Disengage action, double that movement, or hide at the beginning or end of that movement." If you want to still allow hiding after moving 0 feet, you could clairify that, or require that someone who isn't hidden move a little to hide. Allow Moon druids to spend spell levels for healing as a free action which counts as casting a non-cantrip spell for that turn. And so on. The complexity increase shifts from general to specific instances, and in some cases things get easier. Scimitar of Speed adds one attack with the scimitar to your Attack Action. Many items wouldn't break if they were free to activate: for example, releasing an animated shield and then firing up your sun blade in the same turn doesn't seem overpowered.
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Jun 7, 2019 15:06
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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:So the attack category for actions would contain generic things like melee attacks, ranged attacks, spell attacks, and so on, as well as class specific abilities such as extra attacks, pet attacks, etc and also include things like activatable extra damage abilities etc? Presumably. One of the comments asked how something like Healing Word would work, and one of the other people commenting came up with this. Random Comment posted:Perhaps something like this: "When you cast this spell, you can also take one of the following actions: attack, cast a cantrip, dodge, dash" D&D posted:Exactly - cleaner, easier to understand
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Jun 7, 2019 17:34
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And then they'd have to repeat that boilerplate in the text of every spell they wanted to work like that. Cleaner my rear end. Saying it's a bonus action (which should be called a "minor action" or whatever) already implies what you can do alongside it without adding repeated cruft everywhere.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:41
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What if they gave everyone Healing Word and they could only use it on themselves unless they had a class feature that let them give it to other characters? It could have its own set of resources separate from spell slots, or maybe it could use hit dice?
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Jun 7, 2019 17:50
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Lmao at them stumbling around trying to find a solution to the problem 4e solved a decade ago. Just making things worse and more complicated than they need to be because we are forbidden from admitting 4e had some good ideas.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:56
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Their entire race is identical and they reproduce asexually by laying eggs.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:01
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mango sentinel posted:Their entire race is identical and they reproduce asexually by laying eggs. Why do they exist? What purpose do they serve?
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Jun 7, 2019 18:10
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Mr. Humalong posted:Why do they exist? What purpose do they serve?
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Jun 7, 2019 18:24
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Mr. Humalong posted:Why do they exist? What purpose do they serve? In the context of 2e, someone probably took a whole lot of questionable substances and thought, "wouldn't it be neat if..." In the context of 5e, someone was probably looking for a way to "create an interesting encounter" that "challenges" martial characters by forcing them to "think outside the box." It's also a classic monster from a past edition, so clearly it has to be Good Design. Yeah, I can't think of any good reason for it either.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:28
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How do you even damage it without any spell users who use non-fire damage spells?
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Jun 7, 2019 18:32
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Miftan posted:How do you even damage it without any spell users who use non-fire damage spells? Grab a stick and go to town? There's probably a disproportionate abundance of quarter staff twirling fighters and barbarians in the world, at least. It's still a headscratcher how it can be immune to metal weapons but get bludgeoned to death with a literal dead branch, but that's the game for you.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:39
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Mr. Humalong posted:Why do they exist? What purpose do they serve? A wizard had a big pile of scrap metal from his last project.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:53
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Yo so I was digging through old issues of Dungeon and they had a little adventure in there that had lava children. The way they were described I imagined goofy little magma monsters. Not... that. Definitely not fuckin that.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:57
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Toplowtech posted:Kill any heroes dumb enough to enter a volcano. I think that’s just magma. Miftan posted:How do you even damage it without any spell users who use non-fire damage spells? Looks like it’s the monk’s time to shine, baby.
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Jun 7, 2019 19:43
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Finally, someone's cracking down on fighters and their metal weaponry
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Jun 7, 2019 20:39
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Lol if you don't just randomly throw mobs at your PCs with like 95% magic resistance (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) just for the hell of it sometimes. Feel what it tastes like to be a non-caster, wizards/sorcs/bards. I can still remember the looks on players' faces from ~20 years ago when suddenly magic immune orcs show up (there was a plot explanation for it, of course, as thin as it may have been when I was DM'ing in my teens).
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Jun 7, 2019 20:51
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Finally, someone's cracking down on fighters and their metal weaponry It's important that many monsters are resistant to the offense of the class for 'new players', got to teach them fun is EARNED, by playing another class.
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Jun 7, 2019 20:51
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Is there some reason why the some idiots keep try to start the same version war poo poo?
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Jun 7, 2019 20:52
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lightrook posted:Grab a stick and go to town? There's probably a disproportionate abundance of quarter staff twirling fighters and barbarians in the world, at least. It's still a headscratcher how it can be immune to metal weapons but get bludgeoned to death with a literal dead branch, but that's the game for you. Metal passes through it like metal can't touch them. But a dead branch can.
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Jun 7, 2019 20:56
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Xae posted:Is there some reason why the some idiots keep try to start the same version war poo poo? I dunno, why are you starting version war poo poo?
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Jun 7, 2019 20:56
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Marathanes posted:Lol if you don't just randomly throw mobs at your PCs with like 95% magic resistance (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) just for the hell of it sometimes. Feel what it tastes like to be a non-caster, wizards/sorcs/bards. I can still remember the looks on players' faces from ~20 years ago when suddenly magic immune orcs show up (there was a plot explanation for it, of course, as thin as it may have been when I was DM'ing in my teens). I'm not a Good DM because I'm filled with salt and pettiness, so I remember throwing some Helmed Horrors at my party, who are immune to Magic Missile and Fireball, and listening to the rising vitriol of the party wizard as he realized he could not solve the encounter on his own. The other 4 party members had a fuckin blast fighting them, though. I considered it a win as far as my DMing goes.
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Jun 7, 2019 20:57
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Glagha posted:I dunno, why are you starting version war poo poo? Hrm yes. 5ish pages of idiots arguing that $VersionX blows and that $VersionY is really awesome and better is not at all version wars until someone calls it that. Yes. Very good point.
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Jun 7, 2019 20:59
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Xae posted:Hrm yes. 5ish pages of idiots arguing that $VersionX blows and that $VersionY is really awesome and better is not at all version wars until someone calls it that. That was not really happening right now. It was talk about bonus actions.
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Jun 7, 2019 21:02
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Malpais Legate posted:I'm not a Good DM because I'm filled with salt and pettiness, so I remember throwing some Helmed Horrors at my party, who are immune to Magic Missile and Fireball, and listening to the rising vitriol of the party wizard as he realized he could not solve the encounter on his own. The other 4 party members had a fuckin blast fighting them, though. Wowow, immunity to all force damage AND three spells of the DM's choosing is insane for a CR 4 monster, especially with the advantage on all magical saving throws
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Jun 7, 2019 21:49
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change my name posted:Wowow, immunity to all force damage AND three spells of the DM's choosing is insane for a CR 4 monster, especially with the advantage on all magical saving throws Oh wow they're only CR4, ha. CR is so dumb. They got fuckin chumped by the martials, which was exciting to see happen. The wizard wasn't even out of the fight, either. He got to have a wizard's duel with the evil wizard who created them! But boy was he upset to taste the martial experience.
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Jun 7, 2019 22:14
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Alfred E. Neuman really let himself go when he got older. Another child star tragedy 
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Jun 7, 2019 22:32
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Finally, someone's cracking down on fighters and their metal weaponry If you don't find joy in your heart when the inevitable Rust Monster encounter rolls around and all the front-line fighters and war priests start running away screaming while the monks, druids, and wizards go on the offensive, I don't know what to tell you. I say that as the one who tended to play the fighter who was running away. Lava Children are out of the 1E Fiend Folio, which is full of weird and particular stuff from people's campaigns that got thrown together. Home of the Crypt Thing, the Disenchanter, the Eye of Fear and Flame, the Flail Snail, the Flumph, the Grell, the Nilbog, the Protein Polymorph, the Sussurus, and the Symbiotic Jelly.
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Jun 7, 2019 23:15
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I mean if I was an insane magical sociopath, and I like to think that I am, I absolutely would make "Immune to metal weapons" like the first thing I shot for. Followed by resistance to fire. I figure that'd take care of like 90% of the jackasses that came for me.
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Jun 7, 2019 23:40
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The more I think about it, the more I question the utility of 'an action, but not quite as good.' I kind of feel like having more than one action on a turn might be a better choice. Of course the issue with that is once you've resolved the math and figured out the optimal choice you probably just do the same thing twice every single round. EDIT: I recognize that the game, as designed right now, would not function with more than one action per turn on every character. You'd absolutely have to design every mechanic around the idea.
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Jun 7, 2019 23:54
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Could something be put in the OP about Mike Mearles and Zack Smith, since it came out that a very close consultant to the game was a serial sex offender and womanizer, while Mearles defended him every step of the way and leaked posters from this very site to an abuser who still face harassment over it to this day? There should be a warning about who you're giving your money too.
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Jun 8, 2019 01:01
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We're not supposed to talk about it because it makes MonsterEnvy and Arivia go loving crazy and poo poo up the thread for 20 pages.
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Jun 8, 2019 01:06
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