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Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



I know I'm in the minority on the two games, but I loved the world in Zero Dawn (partly because I recognize a lot of the sites) and enjoyed the story enough to play through it twice. It's a great hook for the setting and interesting enough to skip through quickly at least.

BotW just barely grabbed me, the world held my interest long enough to run around exploring for a while and unlock all the map sections, but felt kinda empty after that. The story barely interested me in the slightest, it's fine enough in summary but I never felt like I was interested in progressing forward for any reason other than hoping to find an interesting new area.

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Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018
Kingdom Hearts 2: When Shan-Yu traps Sora and Ping in the cave why didn't he attack Donald and Goofy?

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003

A big part of what I hated about BotW's breakable weapons is that I can't stand having to pause a game and open a menu in the middle of action. Like it completely ruins of the flow and takes me out of the moment. It was actually super cool the times when I shattered my sword on a dude's face, killing him, and then snatched his weapon and went to town on his friend next to him without ever opening the weapon menu. I kind of wished the whole game had been designed around that idea, like where you can only ever hold one weapon and you're constantly breaking it and scooping up a fresh one, with an unarmed moveset for when you're between weapons. Like some kind of open-world Streets of Rage.

Same problem with healing items. Combat probably would've been a lot more fun if there was an "eat healing item" button that you had to use mid-fight, like a Dark Souls estus flask.

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.
I really wish I could quit to desktop in Cuphead instead of going back to the main menu.

Also one boss kind of looks like a Space Goof, and I'm angry that particular childhood memory was triggered.


Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
I recently got Red Dead Redemption 2 and I have to wonder, does Arthur have some sort of aura surrounding him that causes every horse to poo poo itself uncontrollably when he's near because it happens constantly.

I'm not an expert in horseology so I'm unsure if real life horses also poop constantly, it's funny when it happens during a serious cutscene though.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

they do that when scared so yes, constantly

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
RDR2 has the most realistic depiction of horses I've seen in a game, in that they are constantly trying to get themselves killed and making GBS threads and whinnying and squealing everywhere as legendary goon history dictates. It's hilarious, but it's not exactly fun. On the bright side, when you're riding on a trail and nowhere near any trees the horses actually perform pretty well with controls that feel pretty alright.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

It drives me nuts in Hitman that your special-issue ICA-created proximity mines beep for like ten seconds after placement, loud enough to get investigated from like 20 feet away. It's insane and makes them kind of useless unless you go out of your way to game it, like setting one and then when someone goes to check it out rubbing up against them long enough for them to get suspicious of you instead.

MisterBibs posted:

Not to be a dink, but I'm not putting money down on a game that I think will annoy me just to try and see if a mechanic I know I don't like anywhere is a mechanic I don't like in this one..

It's just not for me, and I'm OK with that.

Cool, why are you posting so much about a game you've never played? Also you've been here for years, if you were capable of not being a dink I'm sure we would have noticed by now.

Spek
Jun 15, 2012

Bagel!
Just started playing Breath of the Wild for the first time and what's dragging it down most for me is that for a Zelda game that's all about exploration it feels like it rewards exploration less than most other Zeldas I've played. You can't find heartpieces, bottles, arrow/bomb bag/wallet upgrades, hidden optional items, or anything else neat really. The only things you ever find are weapons/shields which are too temporary to be exciting, temples, and seeds. The temples don't really feel like a reward for exploration cuz they feel too "main path" and there's a decent chance they'll be annoying as gently caress to actually get through once you've found them. The Korok Seeds don't feel like much of a reward because past the first few upgrades you need sooooo many of them to get anything.

Then there's all the little time wastes. Cooking was fun at first but once you get further in and just want to make a bunch of healing food the menu is very, very annoying for that. All the little cutscenes the game does for every little thing get real tedious and while it lets you skip them, sometimes at least, the fade out/in from doing so is so slow it barely saves any time. It'll take 5 minutes to cook up some food that would take 30 seconds if the game let me do it entirely in menu without any repetitive animations. Which would be more forgivable if it were just cooking but upgrading your clothes at the fairy is also needlessly annoying with a little cutscene every item you want to upgrade and about half the time a pointless reminder about set bonuses. Quit telling me about set bonuses, I know about them, I'm wearing one and have been for 40 hours. Getting a korok seed? Gotta wait for a dumb little animation you've seen literally hundreds of times already and then click through a dialogue you've seen literally hundreds of times. Find a temple? gotta wait through a cutscene to trigger it as a fast travel point, then two cutscenes sandwiching the loading screen, then four cutscenes at the end. First the unskippable one showing that blue cage thing explode, then a little skippable one before you get the spirit orb, then one of the mummy thingies talking after the spirit orb and finally one after loading back out into the main world. At least all those are relatively quick. Unlocking the map towers each takes loving forever, and is mostly or entirely unskippable.

Still for all that I'd have enjoyed the game enough to finish it. But the biggest problem, which admittedly is at least partially my own fault, is that I chose master mode. Most of the time that's fine. I don't feel it's a very well designed mode but most of the stuff it makes unreasonable don't matter. The divine beast bosses are so trivially easy I suspect that master mode just doesn't effect them and if it does they must be hilariously easy on normal. But master mode just makes the rest of the combat tedious and annoying. I never want to fight anything cuz it takes forever and a million weapons to kill anything. Which is fine, the combat in 3d Zelda games has never really been fun to me and it's particularly bad here so just avoiding most combat is what I would do anyway. Most attacks are so sluggish and unresponsive as to just be unpleasant to use. The lock on just straight up fails to work much of the time. The dodge/parry mechanic wouldn't be fun even if the timings for it made sense, but it's worse as they don't in the slightest often requiring you dodge so early you'd easily get hit if it didn't cutscene mode you afterwards. Again none of that really matters because I'd just run/sneak past most of the combat whenever possible anyway but then I learnt that the reward for doing all the master sword trials is an unbreakable sword. An unbreakable one-handed sword with decent power. Having that would actually make the combat noticeably more enjoyable as part of the problem is that 4/5ths of the time I'm stuck using a two handed sword since they're the only weapons I seem to find in any quantity that have decent power and they're soooooo sluggish. But there's no way in hell I'm beating the challenge to get it. And just knowing it exists, and would make the combat significantly less annoying but I'm not going to be able to get it, drains most of my remaining enthusiasm for the game.

Which is doubly annoying because I thought I'd enjoy the trial when I first found it. When I did that island that takes all my gear away I enjoyed it but that was short and you could solve it by avoiding combat. The master mode trial straight up requires I kill the enemies and it's so long that even if I had all my gear I'd get sick of it long before it was over.

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.
Hot take: MGS3 is worse on the cutscene front than MGS2. Much worse.

Riatsala
Nov 20, 2013

All Princesses are Tyrants

So the hacking minigame in the 3D Fallouts is kinda dumb, but putting that aside, it irritates me that the "easy" difficulty hacks are the hardest ones for me (and by that I mean most time consuming, they're still almost trivially easy to spam)

If you're not familiar with the minigame, in order to hack a locked computer in fallout you have to find the correct password from a list in so many tries. Every time you choose a wrong passcode, it will tell you how many of the letters in the word you selected were correct. For instance, if you chose WATER and the correct password was WAFER, it would return 4. This helps you to narrow down the correct password.

As the difficulty of a hack increases, the choice of passcodes to choose from become longer and more similar to one another and, conversely, the easier hacks have words that are shorter and less similar. While this does make the 2nd highest hack level easier than the highest, and the 3rd highest easier still, the lowest level are all 4 letter words that aren't similar at all. The effect is that most of the time when you select a word in an easy hack, it'll have zero letters in common with the correct passcode because every goddamn choice has nothing in common with any of the other words. Contrast to the highest level with 7 letter words that might have 4 or 5 letters in common. Therefore the hardest hacks might be a lot of work to figure out, but at least you have something to work with.

Granted there's literally no consequence to running out of tries in Fallout 4, so I can just jump in, guess 4 times at random, fail, wait 10 seconds and trying again, but it's still counter intuitive.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

The Fallout lockpicking is okay because it's pretty fast but the hacking is a pain and needs to banished to the land of wind and ghosts (just like the oblivion lockpicking was.)

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Why didn't they just make hacking/lockpicking auto-succeed if you are 2+ ranks above its requirement? Easy auto-succeeds if you are at Hard or above, etc.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Or copy the new Deus Ex games and let you get consumables that help out with hacking.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻
I'm trying to do an Overwatch PvE event on the highest difficulty for an achievement. It starts easy enough, but that just makes the whole thing interminable when we get to the hard parts, fail, and have to try again.

That feeling seems to happen a lot with difficult challenges that you have to do in one sitting.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:

Or copy the new Deus Ex games and let you get consumables that help out with hacking.

That's what finding the bracketed strings are for. Strings enclosed in brackets remove a dud password, or refill your attempts.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe

food court bailiff posted:

Cool, why are you posting so much about a game you've never played?

Because, as I posted (reading is a skill, after all), I knew it didn't completely fit, but even with a Switch gathering dust and a mild LoZ kick, a mechanic I know to always and inherently drag games down exists in BotW. So it drags down my otherwise-high interest in the game.

It's not like I have to play the game to know it would drag the game down. It's weapon breaking. Either its here as a preemptive drag-down, or it's here as a practical drag down.

(I would also encourage you to actually read the post, as it did presuppose that the mechanic that drags down games might have been removed since I had first gotten wind of it. You know, like the game in 1999 did.)

MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 09:36 on Jun 8, 2019

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Spek posted:

Just started playing Breath of the Wild for the first time and what's dragging it down most for me is that for a Zelda game that's all about exploration it feels like it rewards exploration less than most other Zeldas I've played. You can't find heartpieces, bottles, arrow/bomb bag/wallet upgrades, hidden optional items, or anything else neat really. The only things you ever find are weapons/shields which are too temporary to be exciting, temples, and seeds. The temples don't really feel like a reward for exploration cuz they feel too "main path" and there's a decent chance they'll be annoying as gently caress to actually get through once you've found them. The Korok Seeds don't feel like much of a reward because past the first few upgrades you need sooooo many of them to get anything.

Then there's all the little time wastes. Cooking was fun at first but once you get further in and just want to make a bunch of healing food the menu is very, very annoying for that. All the little cutscenes the game does for every little thing get real tedious and while it lets you skip them, sometimes at least, the fade out/in from doing so is so slow it barely saves any time. It'll take 5 minutes to cook up some food that would take 30 seconds if the game let me do it entirely in menu without any repetitive animations. Which would be more forgivable if it were just cooking but upgrading your clothes at the fairy is also needlessly annoying with a little cutscene every item you want to upgrade and about half the time a pointless reminder about set bonuses. Quit telling me about set bonuses, I know about them, I'm wearing one and have been for 40 hours. Getting a korok seed? Gotta wait for a dumb little animation you've seen literally hundreds of times already and then click through a dialogue you've seen literally hundreds of times. Find a temple? gotta wait through a cutscene to trigger it as a fast travel point, then two cutscenes sandwiching the loading screen, then four cutscenes at the end. First the unskippable one showing that blue cage thing explode, then a little skippable one before you get the spirit orb, then one of the mummy thingies talking after the spirit orb and finally one after loading back out into the main world. At least all those are relatively quick. Unlocking the map towers each takes loving forever, and is mostly or entirely unskippable.
Now that I can get behind 100%, especially the bit about not finding neat stuff. All you get from shrines is upgrade currency and that gets boring.

I kind of suspect we might get dungeons and maybe heart pieces and such back in the next big Zelda game. BotW was such a major shakeup of the formula that it probably pays to spend a whole game just on tweaking the basic mechanics. BotW with proper huge dungeons that still incorporate its mechanics and that you discover for yourself would be absolutely amazing.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

Schubalts posted:

That's what finding the bracketed strings are for. Strings enclosed in brackets remove a dud password, or refill your attempts.

That doesn't really solve the problem of hacking being super repetitive while also taking too long.

Deus Ex hacking gets repetitive too but at least the consumables give you a choice of when (or if) to apply them.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
My understanding of the Shrines is that they take a regular Zelda dungeon and split it up, so rather than doing 10-15 puzzle rooms in a row you instead have however many shrines scattered across the world. Same for the lack of items: for the game to be open world you can't have stuff gated behind items. Which is why you get all your tools in the tutorial and the progression is how you apply them

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Yeah that's kind of the problem behind the new design. I like having the tools available from the start and experimenting. But I also like exploring the world and finding something neat that gives me... maybe not a completely new, but a different way to do things. Although I'm thinking more of Link to the Past here where you found half your magic item inventory in random caves rather than the later games with their formula of "find item in dungeon, use item to beat boss, then use item to find a bit of stuff in the world" which honestly really was getting a bit stale.

I dunno I just remember exploring the craggy, snowy, hostile mountain range to its very edges and thinking "the absolute only thing I want to do right now is turn a random corner and discover a big skull face in the mountain that no NPC ever told me about, but I could solve a puzzle to open the jaw and then explore whatever's behind it for two hours, fight a boss and get another of the eight magic things". Instead it was "oh, it's the 87th shrine, yay for another upgrade token I guess."

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 27 hours!
I actually enjoy Fallout's hacking minigame, in the same way I'd enjoy a fun little Flash game on like, Neopets or something. It can get tedious if you have to do a bunch of it at once, but there's enough going on in there for me to get into. One of my favorite hacking minigames, although I'd agree it falls below Deus Ex.

The thing that always threw me about it, though, is that I always thought the higher difficulties for it were actually easier. Longer passwords means less passwords, and having ten or twelve characters to work with means that it's far easier to find patterns between words to recognize where clusters of correct characters might be coming from.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


My Lovely Horse posted:

Yeah that's kind of the problem behind the new design. I like having the tools available from the start and experimenting. But I also like exploring the world and finding something neat that gives me... maybe not a completely new, but a different way to do things. Although I'm thinking more of Link to the Past here where you found half your magic item inventory in random caves rather than the later games with their formula of "find item in dungeon, use item to beat boss, then use item to find a bit of stuff in the world" which honestly really was getting a bit stale.

I dunno I just remember exploring the craggy, snowy, hostile mountain range to its very edges and thinking "the absolute only thing I want to do right now is turn a random corner and discover a big skull face in the mountain that no NPC ever told me about, but I could solve a puzzle to open the jaw and then explore whatever's behind it for two hours, fight a boss and get another of the eight magic things". Instead it was "oh, it's the 87th shrine, yay for another upgrade token I guess."

To be fair it might also have been a korok seed or even just a pretty view!

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

MisterBibs posted:

Because, as I posted (reading is a skill, after all), I knew it didn't completely fit, but even with a Switch gathering dust and a mild LoZ kick, a mechanic I know to always and inherently drag games down exists in BotW. So it drags down my otherwise-high interest in the game.

It's not like I have to play the game to know it would drag the game down. It's weapon breaking. Either its here as a preemptive drag-down, or it's here as a practical drag down.

I get it.

For insance, I've read and seen enough about RDR2 to know that there's a ton of poo poo in that game that really drag it down for me.

im pooping!
Nov 17, 2006


theres a random event in RDR2 where they're having a KKK rally and inducting a new knight and there just happens to be 12 and what do you know, you have two guns and the ability to slow down time and target all their heads and murder them all before they can scramble away

and then later theres a grand wizard or whatever making two of his lackeys drag a cross to a burning and the cross is so heavy it crushes the two to death and the leader laments his dwindling kind

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

My Lovely Horse posted:

Yeah that's kind of the problem behind the new design. I like having the tools available from the start and experimenting. But I also like exploring the world and finding something neat that gives me... maybe not a completely new, but a different way to do things. Although I'm thinking more of Link to the Past here where you found half your magic item inventory in random caves rather than the later games with their formula of "find item in dungeon, use item to beat boss, then use item to find a bit of stuff in the world" which honestly really was getting a bit stale.

I dunno I just remember exploring the craggy, snowy, hostile mountain range to its very edges and thinking "the absolute only thing I want to do right now is turn a random corner and discover a big skull face in the mountain that no NPC ever told me about, but I could solve a puzzle to open the jaw and then explore whatever's behind it for two hours, fight a boss and get another of the eight magic things". Instead it was "oh, it's the 87th shrine, yay for another upgrade token I guess."

agreed with this. exploring the lovely world is rewarding enough but it feels weird to do a "major" thing like the corrupted dragon or no equipment island and just get a normal shrine reward. Even some more themed/unbreakable unique equipment or optional rune upgrades or something would have been great.

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.

food court bailiff posted:

It drives me nuts in Hitman that your special-issue ICA-created proximity mines beep for like ten seconds after placement, loud enough to get investigated from like 20 feet away. It's insane and makes them kind of useless unless you go out of your way to game it, like setting one and then when someone goes to check it out rubbing up against them long enough for them to get suspicious of you instead.

Hitman has a ton of items like this, the beeping is basically a feature. It’s a noisemaker to attract people to the bomb so it can detonate with them nearby. As you progress you unlock more items with increasingly niche applications.

Otherwise you could just bring one of the rubber duckies, which don’t attract as much attention. You start with a majority of the broadly useful tools unlocked already.

Also, gaming the system is all but explicitly encouraged to get a lot of the more obtuse and challenging unlocks, so body-checking NPCs to make them focus on you is absolutely fair game.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Schneider Inside Her posted:

My understanding of the Shrines is that they take a regular Zelda dungeon and split it up, so rather than doing 10-15 puzzle rooms in a row you instead have however many shrines scattered across the world.

That's what bugs me most about the overall design. I can see what they meant, but 15 puzzles scattered around the world doesn't in any way equal 15 puzzles in a carefully constructed sequence, especially when they're randomly mixed in with a hundred other rooms with different puzzle types or combat challenges. It breaks any momentum in the progression when they're scattered around in shrines with environmental puzzles to solve just to access some of them, and I think that limits the complexity they can successfully put into each one's design. Eventually I just got tired of constantly switching gears for a five minute puzzle (or worse, yet another copy/paste combat) and didn't bother even going in to shrines after unlocking them.

PubicMice
Feb 14, 2012

looking for information on posts

im pooping! posted:

theres a random event in RDR2 where they're having a KKK rally and inducting a new knight and there just happens to be 12 and what do you know, you have two guns and the ability to slow down time and target all their heads and murder them all before they can scramble away

and then later theres a grand wizard or whatever making two of his lackeys drag a cross to a burning and the cross is so heavy it crushes the two to death and the leader laments his dwindling kind

Wrong thread?

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.
I know everyone says that MGS3 is objectively better than MGS2 but I just can't see it. I would say it's a lot of little things but despite being okay at the first two games I am miserable at this one.

im pooping!
Nov 17, 2006


PubicMice posted:

Wrong thread?

what im trying tosay is if u dont play rdr2 you are literally a klan member

JackSplater
Nov 20, 2014

Metal Coat? It's already active?!

Hedgehog Pie posted:

I know everyone says that MGS3 is objectively better than MGS2 but I just can't see it. I would say it's a lot of little things but despite being okay at the first two games I am miserable at this one.

The game is pretty much 100% built around obsessively swapping your camo for every situation. If you're super lazy Tiger Stripe is passable in most areas but you have to spend the entire game crawling for it to work well.

Which is probably the only thing I found dragged the game down, now that I think about it. Well, that and I'm terrible with the 3DS controls for the game.

EDIT: Wait, I was wrong. Kerotans. Most aren't bad. The eight or so during the rail shooter? Fuuuuuuck them.

JackSplater has a new favorite as of 00:07 on Jun 9, 2019

Veotax
May 16, 2006


I hated the original release of MGS3 with the top-down camera. The lack of a radar and not being able to see more than ten feet in front of my face led to me crawling everywhere obsessively changing camo every time I moved to a different floor texture and constantly popping into first-person to try to see if there were any guards around.

The third-person camera in the Subsistence re-release transformed the game for me, it's now my favourite in the series. Being able to actually look around when you're playing makes all the difference, just pick a alright camo for the area and only worry about maximising your camo index if you're getting close to the guards.

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.
I think I might be just really bad at the game. I'm playing the rerelease now for the first time, but I played the original version back in the day (and I remember enjoying it, although I still found it harder than 2). Guards seem to see me even when I've painstakingly switched to some better camouflage, and while the movable camera is great I still get snuck on by them because everything feels so... distant.

I just spent ages fighting the Ocelot Unit. The Ocelot Unit for crying out loud!

And I maintain that the cutscenes and dialogue bits still feel longer and more frequent than those in 2, where that seems to be a major criticism.

JackSplater
Nov 20, 2014

Metal Coat? It's already active?!
The number in the Metal Gear Solid game titles isn't the number of the game, it's actually the hours of cutscenes per game sections. :eng101:

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

JackSplater posted:

The number in the Metal Gear Solid game titles isn't the number of the game, it's actually the hours of cutscenes per game sections. :eng101:

Lol

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

JackSplater posted:

The number in the Metal Gear Solid game titles isn't the number of the game, it's actually the hours of cutscenes per game sections. :eng101:

I dunno man, sure MGSV started with a good amount of cutscenes but after mission 10 (of 51) there is jack.

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006
:negative:
Ironically, more cutscenes would’ve made V better

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Perestroika posted:

Embermane is complete poo poo up until the moment you get a weapon powerful enough to reliably knock it out of its charge with one hit (charged ranged attacks from hammer and warpike can do it well). At that point it'll lie prone for like five seconds, giving you time to quickly chew through its health. It's still annoying then, but at least quick and easy enough to not make the "break off 10 Embermane parts" quest a complete impossibility.

After playing a bunch and beating the Embermane a bunch (my previous post was actually specifically about the Bloodfire), nah this guy is still poorly designed. If your monster needs a specific set of weapons to make the fight not tedious poo poo, then it's bad. I'm just fought him using the axe, and I literally can't start an attack and have it land before he's crossed the map and knocked me down.

Guess I'm forced to use weapons I don't like. Great .

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Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~🚚special delivery~📦

Leal posted:

I dunno man, sure MGSV started with a good amount of cutscenes but after mission 10 (of 51) there is jack.

No, Jack’s from MS2.

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