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5e is a soft tweak of 3.5e which means it leaves most people cold. On top of this, the games lead designer despite making a game that takes nearly a thousand pages of material over 3 books to play doesnt believe that game rules need to be tightly designed since the the person running the game will just fix that and builds his game keeping inbuilt assumptions from years of playing DnD. This results in weird things where the introductory battle for the games campaign for new players has a surprisingly high chance of wiping out the entire party, some players without a chance to ever act. That all said it still sold well since its DnD, but if you look at how the most popular entertainment in the medium keep moving away from it sooner or later due to it limiting them it should give you an idea it doesnt deliver what players are looking for
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Jun 10, 2019 03:55
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I just finished my first-ever D&D intro campaign with a group of friends, only 1 of whom had any D&D experience (the DM was new too). While we did wipe, it was due to a combination of awful rolls and a comedy of errors - our DM gave us a good amount of leeway. Not a one of us was mad or annoyed - we actually all figure that it's better this way since we all kind of made our original characters without knowing the game, so now we have a bit more insight when we make our new characters. As someone who has no idea what the differences were with the older versions, we all found the rules and mechanics to be straightforward and not overcomplicated. So I'd say that if their goal was making the game more accessible to newbies, in our case it was pretty successful  The one guy with previous experience is running a one-shot with premade characters next week while he helps our DM build her own campaign for us to play afterwards!
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Jun 10, 2019 04:09
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Hahaha Cyberpunk 2077 is up for sale already even though it's got a release date of April 2020 and it's currently at the top of the top seller list. Imagine paying 60 bucks for a game by the company that brought you the borefest that is the Witcher 3, and doing it over a year in advance. Everything about the games industry is so loving dumb.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:10
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D&D is made with the Bethesda assumption that it doesn't matter if the game sucks because mods will fix it.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:10
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Thinking Witcher 3 sucks is fine, this is the unpopular video game thread after all. Being bewildered by people getting excited about a studio's follow up to one of the most popular and critically acclaimed games of the last decade is just stupid.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:15
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Barudak posted:This results in weird things where the introductory battle for the games campaign for new players has a surprisingly high chance of wiping out the entire party, some players without a chance to ever act. yo most of what you said was right (other than it “leaving most people cold”, it seems to be selling pretty loving well) but this is almost certainly referring to the 4th edition introductory module Keep on the Shadowfell 5th editions first campaign (hoard of the dragon queen) was pretty asstastic (because it came out before two of the core rulebooks to properly run it) but the first chapter is honestly very good and open-ended and high-action, I’ve used it with a couple of groups who approached things very differently and both said it was some of the best D&D they’ve played 4E keep on the shadowfell was, iirc, written by mike mearls who is the lead designer on 5e and the source of many of its problems, up to and including being friends with some ultra lovely people who he mentions in the “special thanks” section
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Jun 10, 2019 04:21
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We did The Lost Mines of Phandelvir, it was neat. My guy rescued a small goblin who ended up as basically campaign MVP because he kept rolling insanely high.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:26
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is pepsi ok posted:Thinking Witcher 3 sucks is fine, this is the unpopular video game thread after all. It's people paying money for a product that does not exist, and will not exist for an entire year. There is a ton of development left and the final product will likely be wildly different than any current build at release. And to put the nail in the coffin, there is zero opportunity cost to just waiting a year to buy the product off them when it's finished or near enough that you actually know what is being bought. It's positively moronic no matter how excited about it's prospects you are.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:26
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food court bailiff posted:yo most of what you said was right (other than it “leaving most people cold”, it seems to be selling pretty loving well) but this is almost certainly referring to the 4th edition introductory module Keep on the Shadowfell I mentioned it sells well on brand name, the out in cold is to people who know the other editions well. The thought to be single largest driver of its sales though stopped using it so well see how that shakes out. As for modules, nope Im talking 5e and the Lost Mines of Phandelver. The opening encounter is four ranged goblins who try to ambush the party. Its not like a 100% tpk but if they succeed the main defense that will keep one person from being knocked out of the fight before they get to act is the a gentlemens agreement from the DM to go easy on the party.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:31
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Look at this chump, I'm going to be having the time of my life playing Cyberpunk 2077 while he's in a line at best buy crying in front of a sold out sign.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:31
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I usually preorder like a week before and it gets delivered to my house in the morning of the release. It seems like kinda a waste of time to preorder now, but it will definitely be one of the best games ever I think so like, whatever do what you like duders.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:38
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the best version of D&D is the original Rules Cyclopedia. it is like Zero Edition. all the rules you need to play are in this one book, all the classes, spells, monsters, magic items, etc. it even has a section about rules for the gods, the planes, players becoming lords/kings, players becoming gods, creating magic items, etc. there are very few pictures in this book, it was created as a compilation of all the OG D&D books that had been published before it so it mostly has rules text. it also doesn't have any of the dumb edgelord races like half dragons or drow or half demons you find in 5th edition. in fact it doesn't have any race at all! you can play as an Elf, but thats your character class there is no such thing as a separate race/class in OG D&D. no multiclassing either! you get: Cleric Fighter (Paladin/Knight/Avenger) Magic-User Thief Dwarf Elf (Fighter/Mage) Halfling Druid Mystic (Monk) they have started reprinting it. you can get a brand new copy from DriveThruRPG. if you do you will find its really not that different from 5th edition (minus a bunch of bloat): https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic 
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Jun 10, 2019 04:48
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I think supporting Projekt Red (Witcher folks) is not a thing people should do. Of course that's kind of a losing battle because while gamers may pretend to care about overworked employees they don't care enough to not buy the game they want. gently caress the Epic store exclusives..... OH WAIT THEY HAVE THAT GAME I WANT poo poo I HAVE TO HAVE IT.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:11
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I don't really care that much about ethical business practices in video games, of all things. Like, I don't really feel the need to turn every hobby or consumption habit into some kind of political minefield, in the end its just video games. Its not like they're poisoning a water supply.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:15
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Plus they're Polish
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Jun 10, 2019 05:21
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Caesar Saladin posted:I don't really care that much about ethical business practices in video games, of all things. Like, I don't really feel the need to turn every hobby or consumption habit into some kind of political minefield, in the end its just video games. Its not like they're poisoning a water supply. Yeah yeah I know it's a bummer to think about. Maybe if we ignore it and give them money they'll change their behavior? I don't expect people to do research, I sure as gently caress don't but when a company ends up being lovely enough that I hear about it? Yeah I'll probably not buy what they're selling. I probably wasn't going to buy it anyway.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:27
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Duck and Cover posted:Yeah yeah I know it's a bummer to think about. Maybe if we ignore it and give them money they'll change their behavior? I don't expect people to do research, I sure as gently caress don't but when a company ends up being lovely enough that I hear about it? Yeah I'll probably not buy what they're selling. I probably wasn't going to buy it anyway. its not complicated, i understand the entire situation, i just don't really care that much, I care about the cgi boobs that are gonna be in cyberpunk. i wonder if you hold every single purchase you make up to the same scrutiny of your sacred video games
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Jun 10, 2019 05:30
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Caesar Saladin posted:its not complicated, i understand the entire situation, i just don't really care that much, I care about the cgi boobs that are gonna be in cyberpunk. i wonder if you hold every single purchase you make up to the same scrutiny of your sacred video games I bet he uses a phone made by little kids!
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Jun 10, 2019 05:33
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I kind of feel that the inconsequentialness of videogames makes the human misery that goes into creating them more egregious
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Jun 10, 2019 05:36
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2house2fly posted:I kind of feel that the inconsequentialness of videogames makes the human misery that goes into creating them more egregious Speak for yourself, I'm level 17 on PlayStation Network!
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Jun 10, 2019 05:37
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Videogames are entertainment so its very simple to say "nah, I wont buy any from the company that supports pedophiles and nazis"
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Jun 10, 2019 05:38
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Sid Vicious posted:Speak for yourself, I'm level 17 on PlayStation Network! 17 is high, i only just got to 16
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Jun 10, 2019 05:38
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QuarkJets posted:Nazis today call themselves "alt-right", adjust your search terms accordingly. I think that poster was referring to DNDGate; here's roughly what happened with that: For whatever it's worth, people in TradGames continue to splash water in each others' eyes over the fact that Mike Mearls, the lead designer, has done nothing about any of the Neo-Nazis, in addition to being a terrible designer. And in elfgames much the same thing has happened as in computer games; the publishing has opened up to a huge variety of outfits. You don't need to play D&D. You can play stuff made by better designers and better people. Name Change fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 05:40
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Barudak posted:5e is a soft tweak of 3.5e which means it leaves most people cold. On top of this, the games lead designer despite making a game that takes nearly a thousand pages of material over 3 books to play doesnt believe that game rules need to be tightly designed since the the person running the game will just fix that and builds his game keeping inbuilt assumptions from years of playing DnD. So it's not popular, but it's selling well because it's d&d, but it's bad for new players? This is an interesting take but not one grounded in any facts I can find.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:41
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Rutibex posted:the best version of D&D is the original Rules Cyclopedia. it is like Zero Edition. all the rules you need to play are in this one book, all the classes, spells, monsters, magic items, etc. it even has a section about rules for the gods, the planes, players becoming lords/kings, players becoming gods, creating magic items, etc. there are very few pictures in this book, it was created as a compilation of all the OG D&D books that had been published before it so it mostly has rules text. it also doesn't have any of the dumb edgelord races like half dragons or drow or half demons you find in 5th edition. in fact it doesn't have any race at all! you can play as an Elf, but thats your character class there is no such thing as a separate race/class in OG D&D. no multiclassing either! you get: This is a solid reckon, but from playing a couple of campaigns I think 5e is actually kind of a sweet spot between the editions. There's a strong focus on random tables of cool poo poo for one. I love random tables of cool poo poo.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:44
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Caesar Saladin posted:its not complicated, i understand the entire situation, i just don't really care that much, I care about the cgi boobs that are gonna be in cyberpunk. i wonder if you hold every single purchase you make up to the same scrutiny of your sacred video games Where on earth did you get the idea that I think video games are sacred? What the gently caress? Why yes I do take into account if I know a company is poo poo when I purchase things. I'm not going to research poo poo but if I know about it? Yeah I'll take it into account. That being said Amazon is too drat convenient.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:45
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sebmojo posted:So it's not popular, but it's selling well because it's d&d, but it's bad for new players? Its not a good game for new players in my opinion since its not well balanced and extremely rules dense, but its brand recognizeable and sells extremely well which I never disputed. People who play a considerable amount of table top games tend to be cool on it for outlined reasons. No different than most media, really. The entertainment I referred to is live play material like critical role which last I heard had moved away from dnd and was credited as a major source of bringing new people into the whole genre and dnd specifically. Well see if that actually was any influence on dnd sales or not.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:48
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Duck and Cover posted:Where on earth did you get the idea that I think video games are sacred? What the gently caress? Why yes I do take into account if I know a company is poo poo when I purchase things. I'm not going to research poo poo but if I know about it? Yeah I'll take it into account. That being said Amazon is too drat convenient. Lmao "CD Projekt Red have terrible business practices, and treat employees badly, but man that next day Prime shipping"
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Jun 10, 2019 05:49
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Rock My Socks! posted:Ice climbers isn’t that bad; not sure what everyone is on anout I like Ice Climbers too, it's just difficult and stiff to control but that just makes the game feel precarious in a good way. At least it's not boring.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:50
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Sid Vicious posted:Lmao "CD Projekt Red have terrible business practices, and treat employees badly, but man that next day Prime shipping" Yep that was the intent. Amazon is poo poo and taking over/already has taken over the world but the alternative might be leaving the house. Can you imagine that? Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 05:53
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amazon is worse than every video game company combined haha
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Jun 10, 2019 05:57
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Rutibex posted:it also doesn't have any of the dumb edgelord races like half dragons or drow or half demons you find in 5th edition. in fact it doesn't have any race at all! gently caress you dragonborn is the best thing since removing the arbitrary limit where elves can't gain more than 8 levels in cleric, you can be a dragonman without level adjustment
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Jun 10, 2019 06:05
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The whole point of 'there is no ethical consumption under capitalism' is that because of the whole structure of the system the best you can do when purchasing products is 'involves slightly less human suffering' because of how interwoven it is into everything, and actually avoiding buying products that profit off said suffering while functioning as a human being is made impossible by society, and critics who expect you to either completely withdraw from society or shut up are always in bad faith and don't actually want anyone to talk about inequality or human suffering. That said though, you can find and use entertainment products in this niche that are both better products and not made by incredibly garbage people incredibly easily.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:07
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Barudak posted:Its not a good game for new players in my opinion since its not well balanced and extremely rules dense, but its brand recognizeable and sells extremely well which I never disputed. People who play a considerable amount of table top games tend to be cool on it for outlined reasons. No different than most media, really. Oh, fair enough. Hipsters not playing the mass market choice is not too surprising. I have played tabletop rpgs since 1978 and i am a convert (somewhat to my own surprise) mainly because of a couple of the rules innovations (like advantage and concentration for spellcasters) and the way they do modules/campaigns. 4e was great, but the modules were terrible to mediocre.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:15
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food court bailiff posted:his conclusion there isn’t even wrong but it’s like the most bland, obvious loving take, even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes, if it’s the biggest nut ever and every other squirrel found it decades ago and has already discussed it to death The thing I think is interesting about it is that even he doesn't think his rules need to be 100% applied to whatever game, but I still find people arguing for games based on p&p properties needing to reflect the systems used for the narrative elements that a video game happens to use. It's going to be really easy to find people who say that Larian shouldn''t be making BG3 because they don't "respect the game it's based on" or some poo poo because they adjust stuff for it to be better. There's another aspect of this issue too that I find interesting which is how some games originally designed for p&p have incredibly lovely rules for tabletop that can be okay when more or less translated to a video game. Shadowrun and Battletech, both FASA properties, are incredibly lovely tabletop systems because rules adjudication is a nightmare, but if you have a computer do that work and the player only has to select actions to do, then they're fine.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:21
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Duck and Cover posted:Where on earth did you get the idea that I think video games are sacred? What the gently caress? Why yes I do take into account if I know a company is poo poo when I purchase things. I'm not going to research poo poo but if I know about it? Yeah I'll take it into account. That being said Amazon is too drat convenient. "I just don't see the point" I say, while examining my latest procurement of blood diamonds
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Jun 10, 2019 06:28
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signalnoise posted:There's another aspect of this issue too that I find interesting which is how some games originally designed for p&p have incredibly lovely rules for tabletop that can be okay when more or less translated to a video game. Shadowrun and Battletech, both FASA properties, are incredibly lovely tabletop systems because rules adjudication is a nightmare, but if you have a computer do that work and the player only has to select actions to do, then they're fine. This is Phoenix Command as well; its very easy to create hyper granular rules but humans can really only process and resolve them so fast so as table top dev you need to be mindful of that in ways you dont have to be in a computer. Not that hyper granularity is necessarily good in and of itself either, see every game ripping of Cyberpunk. The best tabletop rules granularity though is when you gently caress up the math and your otherwise low magic setting allows resurrecting people by merely rolling their corpse down a hill.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:43
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My unpopular opinion is that you should buy video games you think are good and not buy video games you think are bad. It's a much better system than futile attempts to save the world through Woke Purchasing Techniques (sponsored by Amazon Prime).
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Jun 10, 2019 06:48
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Does how a games made not have an influence on its good or badness?
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Jun 10, 2019 06:49
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Barudak posted:Does how a games made not have an influence on its good or badness? if you haven't sacrificed at least one person to the god of your choosing during your development phase then your game will suck poo poo
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Jun 10, 2019 06:51
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