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Some entertaining takes on the plastics ban today https://twitter.com/TheDailyNeedle/status/1138076552737054721 If only the world these nutjobs fear actually existed.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:04
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this poo poo is made in china why do they care about the jobs???
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Jun 10, 2019 16:05
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RBC posted:If we had some kind of basic income maybe there wouldn't be so many people stuck in Toronto and would spread out to other cities. I don't think there's any way to plan for that kind of growth. I don't really see any other solution for the kinds of economic changes that are happening. Everything is just going to keep getting worse if we keep ignoring all the job losses due to automation. I’d agree with you but I have a few concerns about basic income. 1. What’s stopping greedy landlords from simply capturing all the extra money basic income provides through rent? If word gets out that people are getting free money, rest assured everyone from local businesses to your landlord will find ways to take it from you and reduce you to a miserable penny pinching and impoverished existence. The way I see it, it’s just a guaranteed subsidy to landlords. They’ll all charge exactly the amount you are paid for basic income. Even low cost areas will see rents increase because the market can pay for it now. After a couple years we end up right back where we started with landlords and property owners getting richer while everyone else gets poorer. 2. While everyone agrees it’s nice to have a safety net I don’t think a lot of people clearing 40 bucks an hour or more would want to fall back to basic income permanently. Whatever amount basic income pays will not be enough to have any good standard of living. Let’s say best case scenario it covers your food and rent. Let’s assume you don’t even live in a food desert and the food you’re eating is healthy and not some processed junk food. What about hobbies? Lifestyle? Friends? Dating? Whatever basic income pays you won’t be able to even afford a gaming pc for example or the expensive high speed Internet they charge. At best I see basic cable tv and some rudimentary Internet being all you get. You see what I’m getting at? Basic income is great if it’s temporary. But unless you’re used to living in poverty I think the majority of beneficiaries would like to get off basic income and have a good paying job so they can enjoy their lives rather than subsisting on the bare minimum. I support basic income because I think society should have a bare minimum where no citizens should have to live with financial anxiety, but I also think if we get that far it means it’s literally impossible to find jobs that pay more than basic unless you’re very talented or very lucky. There’s no way my current standard of living can continue if my job gets automated and I’m stuck on basic. Maybe the lesson learned here is that we’re all supposed to live like that and nobody should have any luxuries or fun things. I don’t know. I also can’t see basic income be absolute. I really think they’ll employ means testing. Which means even if I inherit my parents house and only have to pay property tax and utilities, the government will find a way to reduce my payments due to me owning real assets.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:13
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...so UBI is bad because lifting people out of abject poverty means a life of mediocrity for everyone?
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Jun 10, 2019 16:18
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https://twitter.com/brianlilley/status/1138026770723028993 It's mostly women asking him why he singled out ladies for that comment while pointing out that Q-Tips are made of cardboard.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:21
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Anytime someone criticizes a program meant for the poor, sub "poor" for "black" and say what they just said back to yourself, and if it doesn't make you go "Oh.", only THEN can you start examining the criticism on its merits. e: I am absolutely not accusing Kraftwerk of being a racist; I was referring to the conservative pundits and other assorted chuds who think nobody can read their obvious subtext flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:21
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double post.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:22
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flakeloaf posted:Anytime someone criticizes a program meant for the poor, sub "poor" for "black" and say what they just said back to yourself, and if it doesn't make you go "Oh.", only THEN can you start examining the criticism on its merits. Look, I'm just saying we need to time limit welfare benefits to give people an incentive not to be poor.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:23
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Mr. Apollo posted:It's mostly women asking him why he singled out ladies for that comment while pointing out that Q-Tips are made of cardboard. "Because women spend more time cleaning their kids" 
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Jun 10, 2019 16:23
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infernal machines posted:...so UBI is bad because lifting people out of abject poverty means a life of mediocrity for everyone? That’s not what I said and you know it. UBI is good and we should have it. But it doesn’t just magic away all our problems. We still need to provide opportunities for people to work and do things that does better than UBI. Or we need to make it so UBI pays everyone at least 60k per year which we know is never going to happen due to a mix of political culture and social matters that will take years of social engineering to change. We have a responsibility to ensure everyone in our society is taken care of. But throwing 1/4th the sum required for a traditional middle class existence at the problem isn’t enough. There needs to be opportunities. I’m talking about using StatsCan to figure out which industries pay the most and coming up with job training programs so that anyone who wants to do better than UBI has the opportunity to do so. Humans will still need to work in this automated UBI future and it’s my hope that this work pays more than UBI and gives you a chance to do better than it if you should want it. We also have to find a way to keep landlords from charging predatory rents that negate the entire reason UBI exists in the first place. There’s just so many opportunities for abuse where you could coral the poor away from major cities into out of sight out of mind neglected communities. UBI isn’t enough it’s the bare minimum. It’s just one of many things that needs to be done so people can live with dignity and respect in the globalized automated future. If you’ve ever read or seen “the expanse” science fiction series, the people on Earth live miserable existences on basic income and only a select few are even allowed to go to school for job apprenticeships. We should try to avoid such a future and still keep a pipeline of opportunity to those who are on the program. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:26
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 ~A Political Columnist for the Toronto Sun~ Kraftwerk posted:UBI is good and we should have it. But it doesn’t just magic away all our problems. My apologies, I didn't realize that anyone was suggesting that it would.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:26
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infernal machines posted:Fair warning, it's a twitter thread Ty for this~
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Jun 10, 2019 16:29
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Kraftwerk posted:I’d agree with you but I have a few concerns about basic income. Clipped out the part of the quote that I don't care about, but this question about UBI has always interested me. How do you stop landlords from capitalizing on it in this way? The obvious answer is rent control but then you have a second initiative that would require enormous political capital to enact at the same time. It seems to me that the main strategy would be to get landlords onside for UBI by thinking they can capitalize on it and then pull the rug out on them somehow. But how?
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Jun 10, 2019 16:29
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The housing crisis is a function of immigration, immediate negative population growth would fix it in a hurry.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:30
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Canada can absorb 300,000 people a year just fine, as long as 270,000 of them don't all decide they want to live in Brampton. e: Pillorying some of these fuckin AirBnB superstars wouldn't be an awful idea though flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:32
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Pinterest Mom posted:Ty for this~ NP. I'm enjoying the "Well, look, it already happened and you can't do anything about that, so what are you even mad about?" tack. Some real chutzpah from the Province's counsel. e: https://twitter.com/jpags/status/1138107186016673792  a) representation is bad b) says the man arguing for an administration built on a brand of personal attention to residents' complaints infernal machines fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:35
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flakeloaf posted:Canada can absorb 300,000 people a year just fine, as long as 270,000 of them don't all decide they want to live in Brampton. But that's the thing, there's no reason for immigrants to go to some useless backwater, whereas with natural population "growth", new people are distributed proportionally into places that already have sufficient housing and services, and migration toward the major urban centers is at a rate that can actually be handled with ease what with all those family and community ties holding people near their point of origin.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:36
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James Baud posted:But that's the thing, there's no reason for immigrants to go to some useless backwater, whereas with natural population "growth", new people are distributed proportionally into places that already have sufficient housing and services, and migration toward the major urban centers is at a rate that can actually be handled with ease what with all those family and community ties holding people near their point of origin. This is a good point. There’s plenty of serviceable towns and cities that could be amazing to live in if there were a way to inject it with a vibrant culture and economy. But you can’t do that when the majority of new comers view the idea of living in Brandon Manitoba as the equivalent of being sent to Siberia in the Soviet Union because you hosed up at your Moscow job. The solution to gridlock, housing issues and other problems definitely lies in a decentralization of employer locations so more than just GTHA bedroom communities are viable alternatives.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:38
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infernal machines posted:My apologies, I didn't realize that anyone was suggesting that it would.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:38
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Kraftwerk posted:This is a good point. Why not just tell them it's awesome and let them have the land for basically nothing? Worked the first time.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:40
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flakeloaf posted:Why not just tell them it's awesome and let them have the land for basically nothing? We built this nation on treating new immigrants like rubes, it's a part of our heritage
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Jun 10, 2019 16:42
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BattleMaster posted:Aside from all the other lovely single-use plastics, I'll be glad to not see those single-use dental floss sticks on the ground all the time. Of all the types of litter those gross me out the most, aside from being part of a massive environmental disaster Oof. I have messed up teeth to the point I can’t manageably use floss string. Those were a lifesaver for me. 
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Jun 10, 2019 16:43
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Seldom Posts posted:Clipped out the part of the quote that I don't care about, but this question about UBI has always interested me. How do you stop landlords from capitalizing on it in this way? The obvious answer is rent control but then you have a second initiative that would require enormous political capital to enact at the same time. That's tough! Some combination of: 1. By that argument raising low income folk's wages by any means would just line the pockets of landlords, and it doesn't *feel* right that raising the minimum wage, say, is pointless. 2. Not everywhere is Toronto - in places like idk Sarnia or Moncton landlords don't have as much negotiating power as they do in TO or Vancouver and wouldn't be able to hike up rents as much. 3. Yeah this policy doesn't address the power of landlords and scarcity of housing in society and that needs to be done as well. 4. I genuinely don't know if anyone's done work on what happened to rents/housing prices when, say, child benefit schedules changed (which is a similar policy to UBI, smaller in scale). That would be informative re: the bargaining power of landlords.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:47
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Arivia posted:Oof. I have messed up teeth to the point I can’t manageably use floss string. Those were a lifesaver for me. They make renewable ones.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:47
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When my Ukrainian great-grandparents immigrated here in the 20s, they ended up starting in Winnipeg because of all the benefits the government was advertising to move to the prairies. Problem was Winnipeg was, as it is now, a miserable shithole so they spent all of a year or two there before they said "gently caress this" and moved to Montreal (and then eventually Windsor when the auto plants took off). All the advertising, benefits, and subsidies in the world won't get people to stay in a boring craphole with no good jobs and hell weather. Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:49
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flakeloaf posted:They make renewable ones. Oh, cool!
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Jun 10, 2019 16:52
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Pinterest Mom posted:Sarnia I work with chemicals for a living. Trust me when I say you don’t want to live anywhere NEAR Sarnia- aka Chemical Valley. That’s just asking for cancer.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:52
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Kraftwerk posted:I work with chemicals for a living. Trust me when I say you don’t want to live anywhere NEAR Sarnia- aka Chemical Valley. That's kinda the point! If you live in Sarnia and get 12,000$ in UBI and your landlord comes up and says "I'm hiking your rent by 1000/month" you get to laugh and wish him good luck in filling your apartment if he evicts you.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:54
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Pinterest Mom posted:That's kinda the point! If you live in Sarnia and get 12,000$ in UBI and your landlord comes up and says "I'm hiking your rent by 1000/month" you get to laugh and wish him good luck in filling your apartment if he evicts you. Why don’t we just pack up whatever industrial capacity we got left in Ontario and move it to Norman Wells? At least that way we can crank out tanks and rifles if the US ever invaded us for our water.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:56
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I hear tell there is an entire nation of places that are not Toronto and don't have sub-1% vacancy rates for rental apartments. Not that anyone would want to live in them, but I guess these are the challenges of UBI.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:57
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Coxswain Balls posted:https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-privatize-lifeflight-air-ambulance-1.5165554 From a few pages ago, but I heard a rumour that the province is going to award the contract to Perimeter Aviation which is a subsidiary of Income Exchange Corp which is headed and owned in large part by former Manitoba Premier Gary Filmon
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Jun 10, 2019 16:58
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Kraftwerk posted:I work with chemicals for a living. Trust me when I say you don’t want to live anywhere NEAR Sarnia- aka Chemical Valley. Might be okay if you're already 70. Canada's Newest Retirement Community: Tailings Trail
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Jun 10, 2019 16:59
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DariusLikewise posted:From a few pages ago, but I heard a rumour that the province is going to award the contract to Perimeter Aviation which is a subsidiary of Income Exchange Corp which is headed and owned in large part by former Manitoba Premier Gary Filmon If so rip those doctors. Perimeter air felt so cut rate when I was dealing with them.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:07
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https://twitter.com/jpags/status/1138115937301909504 You have a right to vote You don't have a right to a meaningful vote I mean, it's very obviously true, I just didn't expect someone to say it out loud
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Jun 10, 2019 17:12
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infernal machines posted:https://twitter.com/jpags/status/1138115937301909504 Cool good to know we define our democracy the same way as North Korea.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:13
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flakeloaf posted:Might be okay if you're already 70. You’re a Machiavellian genius! By resettling the olds to Sarnia we kill two birds with one stone. Not only do we solve the problem of pricy housing by kicking out the olds from major cities. But we also in a very gradual way permanently remove them from the electorate and therefore give younger generations a chance to really influence politics!
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Jun 10, 2019 17:17
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infernal machines posted:https://twitter.com/jpags/status/1138115937301909504 I'm not aware of a finding by any court (other than the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in this very case) that voting is an expressive act covered by 2(b). It's far from clear that freedom of expression even comes into play here.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:55
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quote:3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of the members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein. 
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Jun 10, 2019 17:58
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https://twitter.com/theJagmeetSingh/status/1138126346947878912 Thrilling.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:59
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I'm glad the NDP is using their time as distant third to shoot for the moon.
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Jun 10, 2019 18:00
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