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Jaded Burnout posted:Bear with me as someone who's from a country where earthed sockets have been required since my grandparents' time, what's the purpose of installing 3-pin sockets with no earth? Future proofing and/or compatibility with 3-pin equipment? Better holding strength for the plug? Well and more than just GFCI protection... If you had a piece of equipment with a standard 3-prong male plug end, you would not be able to plug it in without doing something illegal like snipping off the ground prong, or by using an adapter which is only legal if the box is both metal and grounded.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:20
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angryrobots posted:Well and more than just GFCI protection... If you had a piece of equipment with a standard 3-prong male plug end, you would not be able to plug it in without doing something illegal like snipping off the ground prong, or by using an adapter which is only legal if the box is both metal and grounded. that's what I meant by "compatibility with 3-pin equipment"
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Jun 2, 2019 22:09
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angryrobots posted:Well and more than just GFCI protection... If you had a piece of equipment with a standard 3-prong male plug end, you would not be able to plug it in without doing something illegal like snipping off the ground prong, or by using an adapter which is only legal if the box is both metal and grounded. I have to admit I snapped off a ground pin on a three-prong plug once. I was on a cruise ship, and the power cord for my laptop was grounded, the adaptor for the outlet in the cabin wasn't. I threw that cord out as soon as I got home. It was a standard computer power supply cord, I have about 200 of them in my office at work.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:45
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PremiumSupport posted:I have to admit I snapped off a ground pin on a three-prong plug once. I was on a cruise ship, and the power cord for my laptop was grounded, the adaptor for the outlet in the cabin wasn't. You monster
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Jun 4, 2019 18:47
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I'm tickled that the box is metal and has a threaded hole for a ground screw and yet... So close!
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Jun 5, 2019 23:50
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Ferrule posted:I'm tickled that the box is metal and has a threaded hole for a ground screw and yet... Judging by the age of the wiring the house is probably plaster and I don’t think anyone makes plastic boxes with plaster ears. So they replaced the box at some point with an off the shelf plaster box
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Jun 5, 2019 23:59
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:Judging by the age of the wiring the house is probably plaster and I don’t think anyone makes plastic boxes with plaster ears. So they replaced the box at some point with an off the shelf plaster box That's what all my original boxes look like in my 1953 house with plasterboard. Same cloth covered wiring too. Though I don't think they have the ground screw so maybe that one is a little newer.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:30
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Ferrule posted:I'm tickled that the box is metal and has a threaded hole for a ground screw and yet... You'll definitely be tickled when the insulation on one of those wires flakes off and lets the wire touch the box.  Probably in the "holy poo poo I just taught everyone within half a mile at least a dozen new ways to cuss in the half second it took me to unplug that lamp" way, though.
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Jun 7, 2019 06:51
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I just had a strange power outage. I know nothing about wiring, electricity, etc, but I want to know what I should do in the future if it happens again. The power goes out here a lot when it's windy, and it's usually a "normal" power outage where everything is completely shut off. It either kicks back on almost immediately or the power company has to send someone out. Today was different; about 80% of the outlets were completely off, but a handful of lights and appliances were still operating at reduced capacity; lights were dim or flickering and I could hear the coffee pot rapidly clicking on and off. I went around unplugging everything once I noticed this. As far as I can tell, the affected outlets were random; one outlet would have zero function, while another six feet away would struggle to work. The power company sent someone out and everything came back on after a couple hours, but I'm left wondering: was this a power company issue or an issue with the wiring in my house? If it happens again and nobody's home, do I run the risk of frying all of my electronics, or is it a fire hazard?
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Jun 9, 2019 19:18
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It was the power company. One phase was down, the other was marginal/degraded (or the neutral was degraded). In most breaker panels the left side is one phase and the right is another (unless they are tandem breakers for large stuff that runs on 240v, because those hit both sides.....both phases make 240, one phase plus neutral makes 120v). Chances are good all of the "totally dead" things were on breakers on on side of your panel. Next time something like that happens you need to go to your panel and just turn off the main breaker.
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Jun 9, 2019 19:54
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Motronic posted:It was the power company. One phase was down, the other was marginal/degraded (or the neutral was degraded). It was almost certainly the utility if their coming out fixed the issue, but this explanation is a shot in the dark. There are a variety of ways this scenario could occur. For instance, say OP's single phase tap line feeds from a three phase line at the main road. There is a fault on the three phase line, and a single protective device opens, on the same phase as OP's tap line. As it happens, there are a bunch of three phase grounded wye-delta banks, and not much load on the affected phase. The phase will be backfed, but the voltage will be low. How low, depends on how much load, and where you are measuring voltage due to impedance. At OP's house, with no load he may get a reading of let's say 70-70-140v. But on the leg with the coffee pot trying to heat up, voltage is pulled down to say 35v. The lights are also on that leg and are dimly blinking in (inverse) unison with the relay clicking in the coffee pot. Some outlets are on that same leg, and appear to not work at all because the voltage is so low. Some outlets on the other leg may appear to have power, albeit the voltage will be low. This is just one scenario. Motronic posted:
But definitely do this. Your electronics are not tolerant of bad voltage. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 9, 2019 |
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Jun 9, 2019 21:41
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angryrobots posted:this explanation is a shot in the dark. It definitely is an "if it happened as close as possible, maybe" explanation - this is a deserved call out.
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Jun 9, 2019 22:45
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I didn't mean it as a "call out", there are so many different ways for electricity to gently caress up. There is a definite reason for what occurred, but more information is needed for an accurate explanation. Also a correction to my post - we colloquially call that "backfeeding" but what I was describing was actually a well known phenomenon called ferroresonance.
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Jun 10, 2019 02:08
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I replaced my AFCI breakers and found one circuit was hanging steady for a few seconds before tripping. I isolated it to one outdoor lighting circuit based on the switch. If it's off, there's no trip. If I throw it on, I get a few seconds of light out of it before they go out from the breaker tripping. I'm not really looking into ripping apart these fixtures to try to figure out where the problem is so I'm wondering if there are any tricks that might help me find the cockup. Edit: IIRC The breaker tripping after a few seconds implies a ground fault in particular from what I read.
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Jun 11, 2019 07:31
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Anyone have any opinions or stories about box-mounted whole house surge protectors? I'm thinking about putting in the Square D HEPD80, which I should be able to do for about $100 ($90 unit and $10 30 amp breaker.) I can't get over my feeling that surge protectors in general are a bit of snake oil. They'll only really help under certain ideal conditions.
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Jun 11, 2019 13:25
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Half of the reason for them IMHO is the insurance coverage. I know several people who got replacement TVs and game systems from Belkin when a surge got through their protectors. I mean, it can't hurt and might save your stuff. I've got one on my boiler.
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Jun 11, 2019 13:34
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I'm in the process of replacing all the switches in our house. I came across a 4-wire switch and all of my new switches are 3 post. Do I need to find a 4 post switch, or is there some way around this? The new switches are Bestten 
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Jun 11, 2019 18:09
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I replaced my AFCI breakers and found one circuit was hanging steady for a few seconds before tripping. I isolated it to one outdoor lighting circuit based on the switch. If it's off, there's no trip. If I throw it on, I get a few seconds of light out of it before they go out from the breaker tripping. It does imply that. Check out those fixtures and make sure that neutral isn't shorting to ground.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:52
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You mentioned it was an outdoor lighting circuit, so make sure something isn't getting wet. I have a porch light that's on the same circuit as a GFCI outlet, and normally it's fine, but if it rains particularly hard, the GFCI will start tripping when the porch light is on.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:04
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raej posted:I'm in the process of replacing all the switches in our house. I came across a 4-wire switch and all of my new switches are 3 post. Do I need to find a 4 post switch, or is there some way around this? The new switches are Bestten
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Jun 11, 2019 19:13
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Also FYI that green screw is for ground only, make sure to not connect it to anything except the ground wire (if there is one) in the box.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:11
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Nevets posted:Also FYI that green screw is for ground only, make sure to not connect it to anything except the ground wire (if there is one) in the box. Which raises the question of whether he has grounded boxes/switches.
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Jun 12, 2019 01:11
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Reporting in on my ground fault shenanigans. I have no idea what's going on. The circuit controls five light switches. Two are external and the other three are internal. I isolated the main problem to one of the circuits, which controlled four external wall sconces. I eventually removed all of them and found the last one had a hot wire that was missing some of its sheath and was suspiciously close to the light's bare ground. So I figured that was it and started to reinstall them. Three lights in, things started to gently caress up again. I removed the light and it stopped tripping. Then it started tripping again. At this point, it looks like it trips in conjunction with other lights being thrown on, and even off. I was in particular working it with the other external circuit, which controls some floodlights. With just the sconce circuit on, I can get a trip after 5 seconds turning on the floodlights. Same on vice versa. I don't think it's an overloaded circuit since this all can happen with just those two on. What was particularly odd was that at one point, I did have both circuits on, and it didn't trip until after I flipped off the external floods. Other switches can also cause this problem, but it just seemed like the odds for it happening where much higher with the floods. The switches look okay. I'm reaching a point where I think I have to call somebody in because I can't really figure out what to make of it.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:51
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Reporting in on my ground fault shenanigans. I have no idea what's going on. The circuit controls five light switches. Two are external and the other three are internal. I isolated the main problem to one of the circuits, which controlled four external wall sconces. I eventually removed all of them and found the last one had a hot wire that was missing some of its sheath and was suspiciously close to the light's bare ground. So I figured that was it and started to reinstall them. Three lights in, things started to gently caress up again. I removed the light and it stopped tripping. Then it started tripping again. I think I figured it out 
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Jun 13, 2019 21:15
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:
Somewhere, a neutral is touching ground.
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Jun 13, 2019 22:37
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I have somebody coming tomorrow but I'm inclined to remove the two sconces I had reinstalled and see if it stabilizes. It could be that the sconces themselves just suck, or the way they were installed sucks. It looks like they cut them really short then nutted in extra wire to get them more reach again. The one that was frayed didn't inspire much confidence.
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Jun 13, 2019 22:42
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angryrobots posted:Somewhere, a neutral is touching ground. Shouldn't a multimeter point that out then? I tried looking for shorts and got nothing. What I fear is that it's not actually touching ground, but rather that it is just barely or almost touching ground.
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Jun 13, 2019 22:43
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Maybe, but it would be difficult I think. They are bonded at your main panel, so you can't just tone them out. Perhaps you could use ohm readings to get close to the short, but whether you meter will give reliable enough readings is unknown. Worth a shot possibly? Also, are you saying that the issue only occurred after you added new wall sconces? Edit- Or it only occurs with the wall sconces? angryrobots fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 22:50
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angryrobots posted:Maybe, but it would be difficult I think. They are bonded at your main panel, so you can't just tone them out. I was saying it only occurs with the wall sconces. They have been there for a few years. The change was that I replaced my AFCI breakers. Another plot twist: I think there is an external outlet on the circuit too. Maybe. Either way, it's dead. I tried to plug a light in it tonight while trying to poke around in the dark around the sconces. No dice. I thought it was on another circuit...
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Jun 14, 2019 03:17
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If it only occurs with that set of fixtures, it's either those fixtures themselves, or a NM (probably at a termination) that carries their load. If you have a clamp on volt meter, and the ground has enough slack to pull out of the boxes, you could measure current on the ground along the circuit path and troubleshoot the issue.
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Jun 14, 2019 03:54
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angryrobots posted:Maybe, but it would be difficult I think. They are bonded at your main panel, so you can't just tone them out. Then disconnect them there and see if neutral to ground has continuity elsewhere in the circuit. I always divided the circuit in two as best I could figure to trace down a neutral-ground short. Keep dividing in two and you'll find the short, even if it's a cable run between boxes.
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Jun 14, 2019 07:24
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Yeah that's smart - do that.
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Jun 14, 2019 12:46
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So I have hallway lights controlled by three switches and I might have hosed up when I replaced the switches. They seem to counter each other when I flip any of the three. I installed the same 4-way in each spot and I think I was supposed to use one 4 way and two 3-way?
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Jun 14, 2019 16:17
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The electrician ultimately didn't do anything, but on the bright side, I didn't pay for it either. He was trying to point at the lights or just straight-up not using an AFCI since none of the subcircuits are hitting bedrooms. I have some spare wire so I'm thinking of just resting the lights on the ground and running them in to see which ones screw up when. If one is just irreconcilable, I'll nuke the lights and get new ones. Our requirements for these sconces are so specific that we're looking at a nontrivial amount of dough to replace them. Even then I might just downgrade the breaker. When he was there, I had the sconce circuit with 3 fixtures removed but their lines connected. The 4th one was working just fine. The problem for me was that I incrementally was connecting their lights and then they started to trip. I was three lights--testing each one as I went--before they started to die on me. Then they kept dying until all 3 were removed again. The bad outlet turned out to be on another circuit controlled by a GFCI on the opposite side of the house.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:16
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Rhyno posted:So I have hallway lights controlled by three switches and I might have hosed up when I replaced the switches. They seem to counter each other when I flip any of the three. I installed the same 4-way in each spot and I think I was supposed to use one 4 way and two 3-way? Or, do what I'd probably do in your place, and just swap wires around randomly until it works the way it should. But, you know, don't burn your house down. And hey, on the plus side, you get to return two of those idiotically expensive 4 way switches. Slugworth fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 19:41
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I feel so dumb. I had the 3-ways already and just bought the 4 ways. Guess I have a project for tomorrow!
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Jun 14, 2019 19:48
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Alright boys and girls, here's a refresher of my project. I want to add 240v for this:  Here are my materials.  Breaker:  Off the hop, are there any glaring fuckups in what I picked up? I will install the box today, run the wire, and wire up the plug. I will check back, with pictures of my handiwork prior to touching the breaker. Oh god, please don't let me burn down my anime bodypillow collection. I didn't get connectors, now that I'm looking at other sources (or whatever these things are that protect the wire as it enters the breaker box/the outlet box). I'll pick those up tomorrow. Cannon_Fodder fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 01:41
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Get the connectors and you're looking good. There are plastic push-trough nm connectors, but I prefer the metal clamp ones. I can't remember, are your basement walls unfinished? It would be best if that 12/2 was protected along the wall run either by stapling it to a 2x4 or running it through a piece of conduit.
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Jun 15, 2019 14:07
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I have somebody coming tomorrow but I'm inclined to remove the two sconces I had reinstalled and see if it stabilizes. It could be that the sconces themselves just suck, or the way they were installed sucks. It looks like they cut them really short then nutted in extra wire to get them more reach again. The one that was frayed didn't inspire much confidence. What kind of bulbs are in all of these fixtures, and are the fixtures themselves originally incandescent? I would think a lovely ballast (CFL) or power supply (LED) could be dirtying up the circuit enough to piss off an AFCI. Moreso if you're using indoor bulbs that have gotten wet before, or just cheap bulbs in general. Also, have you tried swapping the trip-happy breaker with another one? If not, it's possible you just have a bad or particularly sensitive breaker.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:35
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STR posted:What kind of bulbs are in all of these fixtures, and are the fixtures themselves originally incandescent? This is the second one I've tried of the same brand. I had an older GE AFCI that I stuffed in there and that didn't technically trip, but those old AFCIs were a little be sketchy too. I haven't tried, say, switching it with its brothers in the other spots. I'm reordering the garage around this weekend so I was going to take the opportunity to just try that on a lark tomorrow, but I don't have much expectations. The bulks are halogen. They are really annoying ones; little stubby prongs that you have to get rotated just right when inserting into the fixture. You can't see anything and can't feel anything, and they rarely take. I kind of half think something go broken from trying to do that at some point just as much as anything else.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:56
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