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Sulphagnist posted:I didn't play this game until like six months after release, it blows my mind what essential things weren't there originally The game at launch was -- I mean it was a complete game, fully playable, but it was a tiny stunted skeleton of what we have today. Each and every update has introduced really good content that I can't imagine playing without anymore. I remember when there were no passages and all domes were self-sufficient. I remember when rovers had batteries and you recharged them by parking on a cable. I remember when pipe leaks and cable faults happened any time, not just during disasters. I remember when all domes were round. When you had a "final" colony evaluation at sol 100. When you had to scrape away every bit of yellow to exhaust a concrete deposit. These were the dark times.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:23
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Really, the only thing the game is missing is space trains. They could even have a nice moving bulk materials from production to storage, or from a central storage to domes that need them!
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Jun 10, 2019 23:06
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Having passed the 1000-colonist mark and completed the tech tree (no goals left but terraforming and the 40% vocation thing), and with domes in every corner, it would be nice to have a high-level infrastructure that ties the whole map together. Trains and monorails and highways would be a great addition, to make this all feel like a big unified city or metro area. I know it's strange to wish for more endgame content when we just got a huge update that provides just that. But as others have said, the game does feel a bit "over" once you have all the late-stage buildings and have terraformed most of the disasters away. So it would be nice, maybe, for the game to truly embrace that and provide more cool tools for the very end game, when you're basically in sandbox mode because you have all the resources and you're just waiting for terraforming to progress. Me, I find myself thinking "How can I make all this look prettier? How can I tie my whole colony together besides the zillions of shuttles flying everywhere? What would a truly 'finished' and 'mature' Martian colony look like?" And I think Haemimont/Paradox have started to address this question with landscaping and terraforming, and I think there's a lot still to build upon from that. One of which, obviously, is: space trains. Toot toot, trains are awesome.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:26
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Mechanical Ape posted:The game at launch was -- I mean it was a complete game, fully playable, but it was a tiny stunted skeleton of what we have today. Each and every update has introduced really good content that I can't imagine playing without anymore. Don't forget the complete lack of tutorial and Haemont's response of "lol, iunno, go look for something on Youtube" followed by an eventual "fine, we'll add in tool tips to explain mechanics and costs" It was playable at launch, but it deserved the crappy crappy reviews it got early on Edit: also agreed that the game needs more end content, though I'd argue that the game just needs more content, period
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Jun 10, 2019 23:38
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Sulphagnist posted:I didn't play this game until like six months after release, it blows my mind what essential things weren't there originally Hell half the GUI didn't exist until a few months after release, this game was seriously undercooked originally.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:11
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None of you guys pointing out to the newbie that trading with other colonies is an expansion feature
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Jun 11, 2019 01:52
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Thanks for the base-building pointers upthread. I haven't had a chance to play in a few days but I will get a chance tonight.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:09
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Wafflecopper posted:None of you guys pointing out to the newbie that trading with other colonies is an expansion feature He has Green Planet so I assumed he had the rest too.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:25
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luxury handset posted:you can build greenhouse plants and atmosphere plants wherever, but you want them to be relatively close to fuel and waste rock supplies, respectively Agree with this. At first I thought I'd pick one location to do all my plant-growing from, but it became clear it made more sense to have lakes and seed spreaders all over the place, because they work slowly and you'll want a lot.  In my case it helps that I have the breakthrough that makes my lakes self-supplying (they create water from nothing I guess?), which means there's no reason to not spam lakes all over the place.  I don't need to attach my pumps to the pipe system because they're self-supplying, but I do anyway because it looked weird to see them running by magic.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:46
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Mechanical Ape posted:I don't need to attach my pumps to the pipe system because they're self-supplying, but I do anyway because it looked weird to see them running by magic. extremely efficient vaporators
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Jun 11, 2019 02:52
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Basebf555 posted:lol I've played the game for like 15-20 hours and never built a landing pad. i beat like 3-4 maps and never built tribolectric scrubbers or used Rover automation at all. There are a lot of pretty clutch mechanics the game'll let you sleep on, for better or worse.
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Jun 11, 2019 03:27
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Log082 posted:Really, the only thing the game is missing is space trains. They could even have a nice moving bulk materials from production to storage, or from a central storage to domes that need them! Holy gently caress monorails would be so tight
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Jun 11, 2019 04:40
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I also wish setting routes for trucks could be better
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Jun 11, 2019 04:41
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luxury handset posted:extremely efficient vaporators [folksy banjo music] "Here at Vapo-Tech Moisture Farms, we pull water from the atmosphere and dump it into artificial lakes, where it dries up into the air. Moistening the atmosphere and making our vaporators even more productive! How do we do it? Only our founder, Red Jetson, knows for sure, and he forgot three reincarnations ago. "At Vapo-Tech, we don't make moisture vaporators. We make water printing machines. Vapo-Tech: defying thermodynamics since 2058. Now back to your regular Red Frontier programming."
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Jun 11, 2019 06:48
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A radical rework of the drone system and a move to rover-based logistical product movement would be aces. Mid game transition to monorails replaces the flying airships. Edit: ideally I’d like the game to be a lot more gritty but that probably goes against the core design.
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Jun 11, 2019 09:04
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Demiurge4 posted:ideally I’d like the game to be a lot more gritty there's literal dust storms man how much grit do you want
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Jun 11, 2019 09:19
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Wafflecopper posted:there's literal dust storms man how much grit do you want If you're playing USA, your colonists have visible stubble. And cowboy hats.
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Jun 11, 2019 10:05
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Speedball posted:Hell half the GUI didn't exist until a few months after release, this game was seriously undercooked originally. Surviving Mars has been a ride, an intensely enjoyable one because of poo poo like this. At the start it was a workable, if dry, barebones skeleton. Hell a skeleton that wasn't quite complete, but it was a full and solid game with relatively simple mechanics. Then they started paying attention to what their audience wanted. While the game didn't ship with linkable domes, almost every single tester had asked them "why can't we link domes?" and so they were working on them at launch and they came with the first major patch. The devs checked the workshop regularly and saw so many popular mods and went "why isn't this in our game" time and time again. Landing pads that stopped the dust kickoff (and just gave a nice, convenient, pleasant looking "rocket goes here" piece of infrastructure because why wouldn't a developed colony have one of those?), mass storage for air, water and all resources, a better UI and better in-depth tools. And on top of that they added new mechanics. I pre-ordered this game with a discount I got from owning Cities: Skylines with the full season pass and watching the game grow has been some of the craziest value-for-money I've had on a game in a while. Also the developers dragging their feet on a tutorial before finally throwing up their hands and going "Ugh, FINE!" was rather amusing. N-thing Martian Monorails. Edit: Going through this game kinda slow because it's my work-week. I get maybe 1-2 hours a day to play it but I thought I'd share the tech tree so far:  Like I don't even care if farms are super late because I already have fungus farms + super fungus breakthrough researched. The setup is Japan, Armageddon, Winter is Coming, Dust in the Wind, Chaos Mode and Amateurs (last one only kinda-sorta counts because Japan gets a free university prefab as a reward for an easy sponsor goal). Alkydere fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 12:58
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Alkydere posted:Like I don't even care if farms are super late because I already have fungus farms + super fungus breakthrough researched. Fungal farms just don't seem worth it 5 food/sol for 6 workers, two hydroponic farms will produce the same, cost less to build and generate oxygen
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Jun 11, 2019 14:39
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Someone mentioned that forestation plants stop working after a certain percentage is filled earlier? What was that percentage?
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Jun 11, 2019 14:43
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kidkissinger posted:Someone mentioned that forestation plants stop working after a certain percentage is filled earlier? What was that percentage? 40%
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Jun 11, 2019 14:47
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Pyromancer posted:Fungal farms just don't seem worth it 5 food/sol for 6 workers, two hydroponic farms will produce the same, cost less to build and generate oxygen they're pretty worth it if you get the superfungus breakthrough. it consumes more oxygen, which you should have in abundance anyway, and they're useful for any situation where you want to farm not-animals but in an outdome building. those are the two biggest advantages of fungal farms - it doesn't take up dome space, and the food production is constant per sol rather than having to wait for a harvest to come in. superfungus farms rival potatoes for output without having to match potatoes with soybeans or whatever to keep your farm quality high. i've found a fungus farm or two ideal for placing as a food generator / labor sink at my outpost mining domes
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Jun 11, 2019 15:27
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What's the best way to handle stress from working out-of-dome? A couple of my rare metal miners have bad sanity because they get -10 per work shift and only +5 per sleep cycle, and infirmary visits don't seem to be enough to make up the difference.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:43
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Don't recreation/housing quality improve that?
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Jun 11, 2019 16:46
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Mzbundifund posted:What's the best way to handle stress from working out-of-dome? A couple of my rare metal miners have bad sanity because they get -10 per work shift and only +5 per sleep cycle, and infirmary visits don't seem to be enough to make up the difference. high comfort and make sure that you have infirmary capacity so they never skip a checkup. an infirmary which is properly staffed should offset one of the sanity penalties - night shift, outside shift, heavy shift - so make sure you have enough medics on hand if you have persistent low sanity issues, bump the infirmary priority to high to ensure full staffing and open the night shift so colonists never get turned away OwlFancier posted:Don't recreation/housing quality improve that? housing quality improves sanity, +5 for basic and +20 for improved. recreation moves the comfort slider, but high comfort can offset some low sanity
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Jun 11, 2019 16:53
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OwlFancier posted:Don't recreation/housing quality improve that? If so it's not an option for me yet. The colonists are in normal houses, the only other housing option I have is apartments, which seem worse in every way except for population density. luxury handset posted:high comfort and make sure that you have infirmary capacity so they never skip a checkup. an infirmary which is properly staffed should offset one of the sanity penalties - night shift, outside shift, heavy shift - so make sure you have enough medics on hand I have the infirmary open 24.62 hours a sol. They just don't seem to be choosing to go to it every day, or maybe it's because the infirmary quality is poor when they're choosing to go? I don't have 3 medics, so one of the shifts is run by a non-specialist. There's not enough colonists in the dome to overcrowd the infirmary, so they always get in when they choose to go. I'm not sure I understand exactly what comfort, morale, and sanity do. Comfort's pretty high (60-70) since I got the Comfort From Farms tech and have a grocer, diner, gym, and everyone's in normal houses instead of apartments. Morale is ok, although there's a penalty for being stressed, which I assume refers to the guy's low sanity. Do I need to worry about sanity if morale and comfort are steady? Sanity for the miners are like 20 but morale and comfort are both over 50. One miner is fine since he's Composed.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:10
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why does everyone hate apartments so much? they're pretty much all i used for most of my domes and they save a lot of space. i'm playing as brazil and get no penalty for having people work outside their home dome so that might play into it, but i'm unsure what the downside is here.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:11
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I think they use 10x (12?) as much power as the 14-space living quarters.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:14
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Interesting. I haven't found power to be a problem late-game but I would probably save a lot of machine parts if I could cut down on turbines. Something to think about I guess.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:15
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kidkissinger posted:why does everyone hate apartments so much? they're pretty much all i used for most of my domes and they save a lot of space. i'm playing as brazil and get no penalty for having people work outside their home dome so that might play into it, but i'm unsure what the downside is here. The primary complaint is that they use 12x as much power as the basic homes but gently caress it, that's still only 12, I'll take it over endless dome sprawl. 12 power isn't anything to worry about, especially once you get scrubbers up. The real downside is their lower comfort, IMO, I don't know why people whine about power costs.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:27
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Mzbundifund posted:I have the infirmary open 24.62 hours a sol. They just don't seem to be choosing to go to it every day, or maybe it's because the infirmary quality is poor when they're choosing to go? I don't have 3 medics, so one of the shifts is run by a non-specialist. There's not enough colonists in the dome to overcrowd the infirmary, so they always get in when they choose to go. there's your problem - you don't have enough staff, and one of them is an amateur. this reduces how much sanity the infirmary can restore per visit it's not a big deal, as you shouldn't be facing sanity collapse, you'll just have chronically low sanity until you get an adequate number of medics Mzbundifund posted:I'm not sure I understand exactly what comfort, morale, and sanity do. Comfort's pretty high (60-70) since I got the Comfort From Farms tech and have a grocer, diner, gym, and everyone's in normal houses instead of apartments. Morale is ok, although there's a penalty for being stressed, which I assume refers to the guy's low sanity. Do I need to worry about sanity if morale and comfort are steady? Sanity for the miners are like 20 but morale and comfort are both over 50. One miner is fine since he's Composed. morale is a function of comfort, sanity, and health. we can think of sanity as mental health high morale is good, it gives a performance boost. low morale is bad, it gives a performance malus. you want to keep morale as high as you can. low morale also generates renegades comfort is generally how many luxuries your colonists have. this is gained from resting and having adequate leisure opportunities. each job class has certain leisure activities, and some perks/flaws also tie lesiure to colonists. once per sol each colonist will pick one of their random leisure interests and try to satisfy it, and will get a bonus/malus to comfort depending on if they could meet the need or not. for example, scientists are pests because they like gaming, which needs a casino or electronics store to satisfy. seriously gamers are real pests, like real life. the main reason you build leisure service buildings is to keep comfort high health is not hard to keep high, if everyone is fed/watered/breathing and there is sufficient medical coverage then it will stay high. health drops for obvious reasons, like starving or getting injured from meteors or oxygen shortages sanity takes a hit during disasters, or when a colonist is subject to stress. working outside is stressful, so is working at night and working a heavy shift. also anything that harms health also harms sanity. if a colonists sanity gets too low they go into a freakout state, stop working, have a chance to gain flaws and might even kill themselves. if a colonists sanity drops below a certain point, they will hang out at the medical center and repeatedly heal themselves so it's hard to get suicidal colonists if you have enough healthcare. but the main problem with chronically low sanity is if some disaster happens, or if a colonist has bad flaws that make them even more prone to freaking out kidkissinger posted:why does everyone hate apartments so much? they're pretty much all i used for most of my domes and they save a lot of space. i'm playing as brazil and get no penalty for having people work outside their home dome so that might play into it, but i'm unsure what the downside is here. they use a fair amount of power and have low comfort. also it's not great to overstuff your domes, if you're always short of dome space you should build more domes. apartments are better when you have plenty of other sources of comfort and you want to pack more colonists into less space since you have more things you want to build in larger domes. also birth rate is tied to comfort, so putting people in apartments can act as a check on pop growth for developed colonies that have plenty of other comfort sources kidkissinger posted:Interesting. I haven't found power to be a problem late-game but I would probably save a lot of machine parts if I could cut down on turbines. yeah, windmill spam is the main driver of machine part consumption and is a common trigger for death spirals. once you get fusion plants though, or can dump stirlings all over, power costs don't matter
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Jun 11, 2019 18:07
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luxury handset posted:there's your problem - you don't have enough staff, and one of them is an amateur. this reduces how much sanity the infirmary can restore per visit Hm ok. I guess that makes sense since my more established dome has a polymer factory and the engineers there don't seem to be having any sanity issues. The infirmary there has 5 medics running it, so they must be offsetting the outdome work penalty entirely. Does job performance quality stack linearly? I can open the second work slot during the amateur hour and have two amateurs working there until I can get another medic. This is a pretty small dome, it's really just intended to mine this deposit. Does sanity breakdown only happen if they hit 0? Maybe I'll turn the mine off for a few days if I detect a disaster on the horizon. I have enough scanner towers to give me a decent warning. luxury handset posted:each job class has certain leisure activities, and some perks/flaws also tie lesiure to colonists. once per sol each colonist will pick one of their random leisure interests and try to satisfy it, and will get a bonus/malus to comfort depending on if they could meet the need or not. for example, scientists are pests because they like gaming, which needs a casino or electronics store to satisfy. Wait, seriously? Leisure needs are tied to their specialization? Does the game have a list of specializations and their need requirements hidden somewhere?
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Jun 11, 2019 18:33
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My issue right now is I guess mid-game, where I've got a few domes up and they're doing fine in terms of life support and all that but I have a hard time keeping the colony profitable and stocked with metals. Once those initial surface deposits are mostly gone I'm just not getting enough from the metal extractors to sustain everything. Are there some crucial research upgrades that would make those extractors more impactful?
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Jun 11, 2019 18:34
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kidkissinger posted:Interesting. I haven't found power to be a problem late-game but I would probably save a lot of machine parts if I could cut down on turbines. This is it exactly. Also even if you have a fully upgraded concrete extractor wonder with a bunch of trade routes bringing in concrete as fast as the rockets can get loaded and launch, the maintenance on Nothing But Apartments adds up QUICK. It super sucks to get pinched on concrete of all things. I don't think its valid to write them off entirely, but when you play a map where every resource counts it's important to keep in mind what you're paying in and what you're getting out. Basebf555 posted:My issue right now is I guess mid-game, where I've got a few domes up and they're doing fine in terms of life support and all that but I have a hard time keeping the colony profitable and stocked with metals. Once those initial surface deposits are mostly gone I'm just not getting enough from the metal extractors to sustain everything. Are there some crucial research upgrades that would make those extractors more impactful? Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. AMPLIFY. e; also if you have fewer than like, ten beacons scattered over the map scanning around for new deposits and not planning your expansion on the exploitation of deposits: you need to do that. Having only 1-2 Very Low deposits is going to pinch you very quickly. Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 18:37
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I don't lean heavy into windmills unless i have tribos and no better options. That's not to say that they're bad, but they're not significantly better than solar + batteries while being harder to maintain, and if it weren't for dust storms existing I'm not sure I would ever seriously invest in them. Also: Russia as a sponsor is just stupidly easy, I have 6 RC Drillers operating, hundreds and hundreds of stockpiled rare / normal metals without even tapping surface deposits, 2 concrete plants giving me 30 / day each, I have (had) 4 rockets running 24/7 trade missions back to earth with all those rare metals except I just built the space elevator. I don't think I've ever felt such abundance in this game. Haven't even bothered with the mohole yet because I just don't need it. metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 18:40
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luxury handset posted:yeah, windmill spam is the main driver of machine part consumption and is a common trigger for death spirals. once you get fusion plants though, or can dump stirlings all over, power costs don't matter Scrubbers also help alleviate power concerns. Since the only measure of when something needs maintenance is how dusty it gets, a single triboelectric scrubber will remove the maintenance cost from everything in its radius. The scrubber itself needs to be maintained, but done right, you can swap a lot of polymer/machine part maintenance for a single electronics. Also, if you overlap them, two scrubbers will remove each others' maintenance requirements. And one thing you might not notice at first, scrubbers have a slider for their area of effect, which actually starts fairly low. Larger areas require more power, but when you can slap down another half-dozen wind generators in that larger area, that's chump change. Mzbundifund posted:Wait, seriously? Leisure needs are tied to their specialization? Does the game have a list of specializations and their need requirements hidden somewhere? It does, I saw it once, but hell if I know how to access it.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:42
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metasynthetic posted:I don't lean heavy into windmills unless i have tribos and no better options. That's not to say that they're bad, but they're not significantly better than solar + batteries while being harder to maintain, and if it weren't for dust storms existing I'm not sure I would ever seriously invest in them. They're great on really steep terrain where you can get the height bonus. Combine that with the researchable upgrade and potential breakthrough/story bit bonuses and you can generate a lot of power. I still wouldn't go all-in on them though, for reasons of maintenance as you mentioned.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:44
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By the time you get scrubbers you may as well just be throwing down opened Stirling generators like an ant queen laying eggs, IMO.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:46
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Heh, figures. Games' fun but doesn't explain itself much. Does the Solar Panels Clean Themselves Overnight upgrade actually slowly reduce their dust buildup or does it just extend the maintenance cycle? I turned one off for a while and its maintenance bar didn't seem to ever decrease.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:46
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Willie Tomg posted:Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. Amplify. AMPLIFY. Yea I think I'm just not planning my domes well enough around making sure I'm efficiently getting as many deposits going as possible. In my game last night I only had 2 up and I felt like I definitely needed 2-3 more to sustain any more serious expansion.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:49
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