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Libluini posted:I always thought we should use letters like this one as evidence that the writers aren't human. . . I think you have, let's say, a very inspirational view of humanity. I'd argue that there's probably very little more human than blind prejudice and hatred. It's what seperates us from the animals.
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Jun 11, 2019 13:47
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Epicurius posted:I think you have, let's say, a very inspirational view of humanity. I'd argue that there's probably very little more human than blind prejudice and hatred. It's what seperates us from the animals. Sapience is what separates us from animals, and I think a lot of people keep stumbling about this "aware of yourself"-bit you need to be fully sapient. Blind prejudice and hatred come from malfunctioning animal parts, and someones inability to let got of those delusions would make me think about declassifying their humanity-status. I'm just well aware that this kind of thing would be abused by even worse assholes, so as soon as my anger cools I tend to be embarrassed by my own fierceness on the matter. (True story: As a kid, I just blindly assumed everyone talking racist bullshit was braindamaged. When I later learned that no, those people are genuinely like this, man I think that was the first time I decided Mankind Must Die. Well, at least until I stopped being angry!  )
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Jun 11, 2019 14:01
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Deciding who is and who isn't human is how we got in this whole mess
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Jun 11, 2019 14:16
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The problem with historical reenactments of things like that is that you can't exactly recreate the miserable parts of wartime legally. They can't arrest you for violating defense regulations and they certainly can't have the village bombed by a flight of Stukas. Just play the attack sirens over and over while having less and less re-enactors walking around. When people ask where the waitress went or what happened to the jeep driver, you tell them that they became a casualty and [insert depressing story here]
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Jun 11, 2019 14:20
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Cyrano4747 posted:This was a wartime America that cut a deal with the mob (including releasing people from prison) in return for making sure the harbors ran OK and nebulous help with the invasion of Sicily. This is the kind of thinking outside the box that makes us great.
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Jun 11, 2019 14:23
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Libluini posted:Sapience is what separates us from animals, and I think a lot of people keep stumbling about this "aware of yourself"-bit you need to be fully sapient. Blind prejudice and hatred come from malfunctioning animal parts, and someones inability to let got of those delusions would make me think about declassifying their humanity-status. But think of the triumph of sapience this letter shows. Plecker has to create mental categories in his head ("white", "mulatto", "negro"), come up with and apply definitions ("if a child has one drop of negro blood in it, it cannot be counted as white. "), gather information (from the city health department), and use that knowledge to draw a conclusion and categorize the baby....a baby Plecker has never seen and exists in his head, and who, according to squalid, looked "white", and who, had Plecker passed on the street, would have thought of as white. This isnt blind animal hatred. This is intelligent, considered hatred. its abhorrent, obviously, and probably all the more so for the sheer rationality of it.
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Jun 11, 2019 14:31
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BalloonFish posted:Absolutely. I enjoyed walking round Southwick, reading the placards, looking at the Jeeps and listening to the swing band. It was a nice day out with some lightweight education on the side, which is all the event is supposed to be. In grade school during a Civil War unit a parent baked hardtack so we could see the awful food troops had to eat. Except the parent was a good baker and we got to enjoy what was pretty much delicious fresh cornbread and weren’t sure what the soldiers were complaining about.
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Jun 11, 2019 14:41
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Hyrax Attack! posted:In grade school during a Civil War unit a parent baked hardtack so we could see the awful food troops had to eat. Except the parent was a good baker and we got to enjoy what was pretty much delicious fresh cornbread and weren’t sure what the soldiers were complaining about. How the hell do you gently caress up hardtack so much that you make cornbread instead? It wasn't even made with corn!
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Jun 11, 2019 15:04
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Hyrax Attack! posted:In grade school during a Civil War unit a parent baked hardtack so we could see the awful food troops had to eat. Except the parent was a good baker and we got to enjoy what was pretty much delicious fresh cornbread and weren’t sure what the soldiers were complaining about. Stick it in a barrel for a year before eating it.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:09
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Might have used the 'official recipe' rather than the one that was actually used by Congressman Jim's cousin who replaced half the flour with sawdust to save money.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:11
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Hardtack is just flour and water. Cornbread is a completely different thing. Also it is quite edible if you soften it and then fry it in bacon grease. It is basically a bacon flavored donut.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:15
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It's important the cadets are prepared for their first line-crossing ceremony.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:34
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sullat posted:Might have used the 'official recipe' rather than the one that was actually used by Congressman Jim's cousin who replaced half the flour with sawdust to save money. Even with the proper recipe it's just wheat flour, salt, and water. After the baking it's very hard. After storage for months before reaching the front it's either edible floor tile that needs to be smashed with a rifle butt or got wet and is now moldy. Making cornbread instead is like being asked to pour someone a PBR and accidentally giving them Macallan 20.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:38
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Epicurius posted:But think of the triumph of sapience this letter shows. Plecker has to create mental categories in his head ("white", "mulatto", "negro"), come up with and apply definitions ("if a child has one drop of negro blood in it, it cannot be counted as white. "), gather information (from the city health department), and use that knowledge to draw a conclusion and categorize the baby....a baby Plecker has never seen and exists in his head, and who, according to squalid, looked "white", and who, had Plecker passed on the street, would have thought of as white. This isnt blind animal hatred. This is intelligent, considered hatred. its abhorrent, obviously, and probably all the more so for the sheer rationality of it. I don't think I can let this definition of sapience stand, since it would mean you could replace every human with a simple algorithm. The only real difference in your example comes down to "it can create mental categories", instead of depending on pre-programmed ones. (My half-knowledge of IT tells me that even neural networks still have troubles with coming up with their own categories.) This is kind of sad. Humanity and hatred, reduced to a couple lines of code. I see it the opposite way: If you're starting to look at the universe around you like a badly programmed computer, your humanity is somewhat lacking.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:52
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Defining salience is a cluster gently caress but the long and the short of it a an awareness of self and a ability to reason. As abhorrent as racist reason might be it is still there. One of the first things you need to do, for example, when studying the Holocaust and Nazi Germany is come to grips wit the fact that you can’t just write it off as unknowable evil. It had an internal logic that makes the most awful poo poo make sense in context. You can think the base premise of whatever (be it racism, religious zealotry, anti-vax poo poo, etc) is bullshit, but just because someone accepts that premise doesn’t make them not human somehow.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:05
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That's a terrible definition of salience Cyrano
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Jun 11, 2019 16:13
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I would simply define salience as the practice of overextending your lines in one place, allowing the enemy to surround them on three sides. See, that was easy.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:19
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Phone! 
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Jun 11, 2019 16:20
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I can sometimes get really worked up about stories like the caning of Sumner, because it's just such a weird and alien perspective on humanity. Just enacting violence upon somebody because it is your right as part of your social standing. But then again I was pretty violent as a kid, so maybe it's more natural than I would think now and I just heavily internalized people saying not to do that. aphid_licker posted:That's a terrible definition of salience Cyrano I thought you measured it in parts per thousand, and normally out in the ocean it's about 35.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:51
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chitoryu12 posted:How the hell do you gently caress up hardtack so much that you make cornbread instead? It wasn't even made with corn! I am wondering if they were baked corn dodgers or something. Presumably it would be a Confederate ration. I only deduced that trying to search around about corn meal or masa in any generation of hard tack, got nothing, but found that instead.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:22
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How different is like a modern saltine cracker from ship's biscuit? Is there a close modern analog?
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Jun 11, 2019 17:24
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zoux posted:How different is like a modern saltine cracker from ship's biscuit? Is there a close modern analog? I think it's equivalent to a ship's biscuit. A saltine has some fat in it and of course is thinner. I imagine people would have loved to have had saltines, but there's no way that would have been able to transport in the 19th century. In particular, the fats would go rancid. Now I know some of you really were planning to concentrate today, and you still can, if you don't watch this video from Townsends about making this stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyjcJUGuFVg YouTube for once took all the Steve MRE Info + wood-fired oven stuff I watch and found a recommendation that combined them without involving Nazis.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:35
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:So what I learned here is the time I spent as a volunteer at the Midway Museum will probably give me cancer -like I always suspected. Nice to know. The lesson here seems to be never volunteer
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Jun 11, 2019 18:19
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Cyrano4747 posted:One of the first things you need to do, for example, when studying the Holocaust and Nazi Germany is come to grips wit the fact that you can’t just write it off as unknowable evil. It had an internal logic that makes the most awful poo poo make sense in context. You can think the base premise of whatever (be it racism, religious zealotry, anti-vax poo poo, etc) is bullshit, but just because someone accepts that premise doesn’t make them not human somehow. Disturbingly true with the Nazis; even their "let's execute these jews who are making winter wear for the Heer in november 1941" makes a sort of sense via Nazi internal logic
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Jun 11, 2019 18:46
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zoux posted:How different is like a modern saltine cracker from ship's biscuit? Is there a close modern analog? In my neck of the woods you can still buy hard tack, though for modernity they don't make it with lard anymore
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Jun 11, 2019 18:47
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Nebakenezzer posted:In my neck of the woods you can still buy hard tack, though for modernity they don't make it with lard anymore How does the taste compare to other crackers
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Jun 11, 2019 18:51
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zoux posted:How does the taste compare to other crackers No richness, no salt at all. It's slightly nicer than gnawing on flour
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Jun 11, 2019 18:56
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I think it's equivalent to a ship's biscuit. A saltine has some fat in it and of course is thinner. I imagine people would have loved to have had saltines, but there's no way that would have been able to transport in the 19th century. In particular, the fats would go rancid. Huge fan of rationing in general and those two youtubers are pretty great “Salt” is a great book and goes into a little on rations and preservatives if anyone is interested in it, anyone got any book recommendations?
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Jun 11, 2019 18:58
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Milo and POTUS posted:The lesson here seems to be never volunteer Never Again Volunteer Yourself.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:17
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Nebakenezzer posted:Disturbingly true with the Nazis; even their "let's execute these jews who are making winter wear for the Heer in november 1941" makes a sort of sense via Nazi internal logic Would you mind expanding on this?
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Jun 11, 2019 20:52
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I think it's equivalent to a ship's biscuit. A saltine has some fat in it and of course is thinner. I imagine people would have loved to have had saltines, but there's no way that would have been able to transport in the 19th century. In particular, the fats would go rancid. There's something about Townsends that just seems too forthright and wholesome. Like there's something horrible lurking just behind the next video but then nope they're making a canoe, now they're talking about maintaining a flintlock, oh now he's making a cake using a recipe from george washington's kitchen. But still.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:58
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FAUXTON posted:There's something about Townsends that just seems too forthright and wholesome. Like there's something horrible lurking just behind the next video but then nope they're making a canoe, now they're talking about maintaining a flintlock, oh now he's making a cake using a recipe from george washington's kitchen. Townsend's neighbors disappear shortly before their episode on emergency famine foods
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Jun 11, 2019 21:03
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It's all to get clicks on their nefarious webstore full of reenactment paraphernalia and reprints of period books full of ancient lore.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:05
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This thread may not be to the letter of the thread, but certainly in the spirit of it https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1138514058594914307
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Jun 11, 2019 21:30
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zoux posted:This thread may not be to the letter of the thread, but certainly in the spirit of it Go on...
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Jun 11, 2019 21:44
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FAUXTON posted:There's something about Townsends that just seems too forthright and wholesome. Like there's something horrible lurking just behind the next video but then nope they're making a canoe, now they're talking about maintaining a flintlock, oh now he's making a cake using a recipe from george washington's kitchen. O yeah. That dude deffo worships Nyarlethothep and has a cupboard full of human tongues. No other thing possible. But I also wanna try 89% of those recipes so I call it a wash.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:46
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Ice Fist posted:Go on... Well you have to click on it
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Jun 11, 2019 21:50
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Speaking of Slava Malamud and Chernobyl's costuming and set decisions, at least sometimes the actors were wearing original clothing, not recreations. Harris and Skarsgard's suits were made for them but the bolts of fabric they were cut from were from the USSR c. 1985. this is the shirt I brought home from Dresden for my mom. It's polyester. There's a little yellowing on the collar but it's still good. It will always be good. 
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Jun 11, 2019 21:50
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FAUXTON posted:Like there's something horrible lurking just behind the next video 
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Jun 11, 2019 21:51
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https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1138548173096591360
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Jun 11, 2019 21:54
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