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Jerusalem posted:I may be wrong, but I think the way it works is that submissions of a particular piece of work are sent in by the actor themselves (or maybe their agent or a showrunner etc?) for consideration for nomination. I instantly recognized him as Chandler's dickhead boss from the later seasons of Friends. He has that niche because he nails it.
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Jun 10, 2019 14:20
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Borrowed Ladder posted:I guess maybe it's different now, or I've never paid close enough attention, but do people win emmys/golden globes for specific episodes? I always just thought they win it for the season. I can't remember hearing episode titles during the award show. If you look on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_The_Sopranos it lists the episode(s) they were considered for. Some interesting stuff, Gandolfini and Falco both won Lead Actor Emmys for Whitecaps. Drea de Matteo and Michael Imperioli both won Supporting Actor for Irregular Around The Margins + Long Term Parking. The Melfi rape episode won an Emmy for writing.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:58
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Any time you see Teleplay by: and Story by: that means the episode is being submitted for some kind of (usually writing) award Was sad to find out Sully Boyar (Dr Krakower) died of a heart attack 2 weeks before this episode aired. 
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Jun 10, 2019 19:22
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Awesome summary. I always liked the psychiatrist that Carmela sees. For a teacher of Melfi's he's way more hardcore than that fact alone would lead you to believe. Absolutely ruthless, and unassailably correct. The reel  Big Mouth Billy Bass sang Take Me to the River and Don't Worry, Be Happy- but apparently Bobby McFerrin didn't want his song featured in a show that glamorized violence so we got YMCA instead 
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Jun 11, 2019 23:00
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Other little things: The opening scene/fantasy sequence is silly but there is a levity that pervades the series that not everyone fully gets (especially the driveway scene in this particular episode)- I don't think it's too out of place. The fact that it only happens once helps. It's kind of like in Do Not Resuscitate or whichever it was with Janice seeing Livia's face on the USE STAIRS signage- brief enough to get the point across, and rare enough to be truly jarring when we see it. I love the scene with Junior blending his food. The Dean's anglicized surname Ross- a nod to David Chase whose family had the same thing happen? "They're all over the fuckin place! We gotta bring one into the club."   and Mr. Williams- "Stupid-a-loving-game" "YOU GOT A BEE ON YOU HAT" Harold Stassen fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 23:16
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Awesome summary. I always liked the psychiatrist that Carmela sees. For a teacher of Melfi's he's way more hardcore than that fact alone would lead you to believe. Absolutely ruthless, and unassailably correct. This scene is so good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVeLjj6Ao8 The way Carmela is like "uh, are you Jewish, can I ask? Marriage is important to Christians" and "I thought therapists weren't supposed to be judgmental", she's defensive and tries to put him in his place. The way she instantly jumps to argue with him to defend Tony and by proxy herself from Judgement, but then the way she also stammers and cries and clearly struggles with the things she's rationalizing as she's doing it, that's so human. And he knows his poo poo and this his job, and he doesn't budge an inch. She's just about to leave when he starts to get through to her. Really great writing.
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Jun 11, 2019 23:31
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That psychiatrist struck me as more realistic or at least more effective than Melfi. I guess it depends on the type of therapy but there seemed to be little benefit in Tony's talk therapy sessions. In my experience effective therapy requires action, not just bitching about whatever bothers you. I think this is the generally accepted opinion nowadays also. I guess it wouldn't be as entertaining to watch if he did cognitive behavioral therapy or something like that though. Plus I guess it's kind of the point that Tony's therapy doesn't change his nature and Melfi is addicted to treating him for the thrill or maybe the challenge but never really gets through to him on much. denzelcurrypower fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 00:39
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I think I read an article talking about how bad the psychiatry was in The Sopranos back when it was still airing.
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Jun 12, 2019 01:58
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think I read an article talking about how bad the psychiatry was in The Sopranos back when it was still airing. There has been a lot of writing about the psychiatry of the Sopranos, and a lot of opinions. I think it usually boils down to the fact that there are a lot of real therapy approaches and methods shown in the show, but the specifics of how Melfi treats Tony are riddled with poor decisions, implausible scenarios and things that happen for the sake of drama. Conversely, there have been a lot of people who have defended the psychiatry in the show, but I find that most of those articles are from when the show was in the earlier seasons, when it seemed like Tony had a chance of being redeemed or improved. By the end of the show, when it became clear that part of the theme of the show was the uselessness of therapy, those types of articles didn't pop up much anymore. But it is still really interesting to get their take on it. Some interesting articles: The Sopranos and Psychiatry Psychiatrists Are Obsessed With The Sopranos The Psychology of The Sopranos (Also a book which I owned at one point) A Case Formulation for Tony Soprano This last one has a really excellent reading of the final scene of the show, here is part of it: PsychToday posted:Tony loses almost all that is tender in his life partly because it has not been protected and cultivated in treatment. This loss is depicted in the famously ambiguous final scene. In my view, the meaning of the scene is that the simple moments of life have been ruined by the legacy of violence. ...Meadow has trouble parallel parking and you expect her to get shot. Tony catches the eye of another diner patron and you expect him to be a hit man. The door opens and you wonder if it’s death or his daughter.
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Jun 12, 2019 02:28
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I really love that callback, but it had never really hit me before about the fact that it happens at an impersonal diner rather than the huddled warmth of a family unit coming together in a storm surrounded by friends like in season 1.
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Jun 12, 2019 05:36
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Jerusalem posted:I really love that callback, but it had never really hit me before about the fact that it happens at an impersonal diner rather than the huddled warmth of a family unit coming together in a storm surrounded by friends like in season 1. Yeah, I agree. Looking at it through the lens of family warmth vs distance, the anxious feeling of the final scene makes more sense. I never really liked the idea that Chase was trying to show us that Tony lived in constant fear, because that never seemed like Tony. Plus his enemies were defeated and there was no active threat, just a vague looming problem in the future with the new rat. The idea of the anxiety of that scene reflecting his loss of warmth and caring makes a lot more sense and fits the theme of the show really well.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:13
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The diner looked kind of ok though tbh. And snacking on onion rings together doesnt seem super distant compared to loads of other stuff we saw (in a way it's downright wholesome). I dont think I can see that scene in a way where tony doesnt die anymore and the unusual way the scene plays out is to try to show a bullet no one sees coming with meadow's parallel parking creating mild tension in a way that does not suggest danger. I agree that those are themes in the show and there's a huge difference between tony's relationships s1 vs s6. No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 16:01
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No Wave posted:The diner looked kind of ok though tbh. And snacking on onion rings together doesnt seem super distant compared to loads of other stuff we saw (in a way it's downright wholesome). I dont think I can see that scene in a way where tony doesnt die anymore and the unusual way the scene plays out is to try to show a bullet no one sees coming with meadow's parallel parking creating mild tension in a way that does not suggest danger. True, if that was the main intent it could have been shown a lot more emphatically, but I think it's an interesting theme to explore. But also, the point of the scene is the ambiguity. We don't actually see what happens to Tony, which is by design. The wondering is part of the point, so that's why I am always disappointed that everyone wants to talk about it like it is a code to crack. It was left unanswered, and that ambiguity is the answer.
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Jun 12, 2019 16:36
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Ishamael posted:True, if that was the main intent it could have been shown a lot more emphatically, but I think it's an interesting theme to explore. But also, the point of the scene is the ambiguity. We don't actually see what happens to Tony, which is by design. The wondering is part of the point, so that's why I am always disappointed that everyone wants to talk about it like it is a code to crack. It was left unanswered, and that ambiguity is the answer. Yeah, at that point in the show it does not particularly matter if one of those guys there to clip Tony (but as you point out, who would as everything's settled) or the feds arrest him and it's a shame that so many turned the show into 'who's going to die THIS week' and obviously thinking that the logical conclusion was Tony in the final scene.
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Jun 12, 2019 16:43
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i mean we're here trying to crack the code of the scene in our own way by wondering why we spent three minutes watching meadow parallel park. The bullet you don't see discussion earlier, the dude showing an interest in tony, the pointlessness of the scene otherwise, seeing it as tony's death seems more than reasonable. (david chase calling it a death scene 10 years later would be extratextual cheating, but... it doesnt hurt) This is not a particularly ambiguous show otherwise. Tony was apparently too ambiguous going into S6 so the nastiness got dialed up even past selfish sociopath. No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 16:53
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I mean I think you can take it a couple of ways, but I think the entire premise does end with the theme of the song playing. Ostensibly Tony was spending the series trying to work through his own issues and maybe better himself and the rest of the family have character growth and change. By the end of season 6 there is no more character growth potential for the family. Everyone's paths are set and their is no more point in following them. No one changed or became a better person, over the course of the series we see everyone's arc has come full circle and any more episodes are just going to rehash tired plot points like a daytime soap opera. AJ grew up and still is an idiot who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and failed upwards. Meadow didn't break away from the family. Carmela still is just in it for the prestige and money, but has at least mostly come to terms with it. Tony is still miserable despite the fact he won, but at the cost of all his friends and confidants and still isn't secure. Janice is now a mob widow and going to be Livia v2.0 with a hosed up relation with her (step)-kids. Christopher was murdered young and leaves a fatherless child behind, just like himself. Paulie is still just a soldier in the mob, its all he has. Artie & Charmaine are back together and seemingly content with being owners of a restaurant. Junior well... theres nothing much left of him, his entire life summed up in a vacant "That sounds nice". Melfi goes back to normal psychiatry practice instead of thrill seeking with the bad boy mobster. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 17:29
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Ishamael posted:This last one has a really excellent reading of the final scene of the show, here is part of it: That's a great take. I also hadn't connected the parallels with the Season 1 finale, which are just fantastic. Ishamael posted:I never really liked the idea that Chase was trying to show us that Tony lived in constant fear, because that never seemed like Tony. Plus his enemies were defeated and there was no active threat, just a vague looming problem in the future with the new rat. Remember, in the span of like a month he's killed his protege, his brother-in-law has been killed and his consigliere is in a potentially persistent vegetative state. His son just attempted suicide, and his daughter is engaged to the son of one of his soldiers - a soldier who knows that Tony had his twin brother killed. Another capo has disappeared and it's just been confirmed he didn't just get picked up by the feds, but he's flipped; unlike every other guy who has squealed this one apparently has actionable info. Uncle Junior has entered the end stages of dementia, eliminating an ally, a mentor and his last line of defense for deflecting any legal troubles. He survived the war with New York after making a handshake deal with another boss, but he knows exactly how much a made guy's word is worth these days. His therapist, who arguably provided the only outlet that kept him "sane" for the last decade, has cut him loose without warning. I agree that Tony doesn't live in "constant fear," but there's no ignoring the quiet, pervasive anxiety of living the life he's chosen. It's the thing that triggered his panic attacks as he faced being the acting boss in the pilot, and his situation has only gotten worse since then. The diner sequence is the encapsulation of what Tony's life is going forward. The "vague looming problem" will always be there, at the back of his mind; "remember the good times" is all he can do at this point because he'll never again be truly present in the moment to enjoy what he has. Tony Soprano doesn't need to die, because he's already in Hell.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:30
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I dont think he is honestly. He had a spring in his step the last time we saw one of his goomars say they were going to kill themselves. He got a new therapist too, things were rolling along just fine for him.
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Jun 12, 2019 18:11
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No Wave posted:i mean we're here trying to crack the code of the scene in our own way by wondering why we spent three minutes watching meadow parallel park. When Chase himself says "it's all right there" and then you re-watch certain episodes with that in mind, knowing what to look for, I can't read the finale any other way than that Members Only guy killed him. I mean, even forgetting Bobby's observation about "never seeing it coming" or hearing it, they practically went out of their way to mirror one of the most famous scenes from The Godfather that is entirely about a surprise hit.
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Jun 12, 2019 18:14
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JethroMcB posted:I agree that Tony doesn't live in "constant fear," but there's no ignoring the quiet, pervasive anxiety of living the life he's chosen. It's the thing that triggered his panic attacks as he faced being the acting boss in the pilot, and his situation has only gotten worse since then. The diner sequence is the encapsulation of what Tony's life is going forward. The "vague looming problem" will always be there, at the back of his mind; "remember the good times" is all he can do at this point because he'll never again be truly present in the moment to enjoy what he has. I get what you are saying, and the list of poo poo that happened at the end is very crazy, but Gandolfini was so good at giving us layers upon layers, and I don't read any of that anxiety in him at the end. He seems like he is fairly neutral, not particularly happy but not miserable. Things are...ok.
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Jun 12, 2019 18:23
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TONY LIVES 
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Jun 12, 2019 18:32
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Furio killed him. He and Carmella can finally be together. "You gotta my new wife ona you head!" *boom*
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Jun 12, 2019 20:04
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I don't think it matters much whether Tony died. If he died, he died, and if not, he's still facing life without his former close allies given Sil and Junior are out of commission and he's also facing Carlo flipping and potentially putting him into jail. And his traditional ally in New York Johnny Sack is long gone. He's hosed either way. In a way I'm glad David Chase left it ambiguous because I think showing Tony's death almost lets Tony off too easy. Leaving it ambiguous makes the viewer realize that Tony is in trouble whether or not he got killed in that restaurant. Even if you take an optimistic view and say that Tony doesn't get whacked, doesn't get put in jail by Carlo flipping, and that Sil comes out of the coma you're still left with the knowledge that Tony's lifestyle will eventually catch up to him, and that in any case his relationship with his family is always going to be volatile as well because of his chosen occupation.
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Jun 12, 2019 21:46
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Also it didn’t matter whether they showed him dead dismembered in a pool of blood b cause in Walter white fashion people on the internet would still be saying HES ALIVE
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Jun 12, 2019 21:54
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Oh, I don't think it "mattered" much either and I know the finale has been beaten to death. I was just addressing what a lot of people see as ambiguity that I've actually come around to reading as totally and inarguably straight forward, especially with the benefit of hindsight and being able to re-watch the series. I think what Chase ultimately was able to accomplish with the blackout and that "nothing happening" final scene was give us the "ending" without showing us The Whackening and the gratuitous bloodbath. Which he actually gave us in the penultimate episode.
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Jun 12, 2019 23:38
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banned from Starbucks posted:Furio killed him. He and Carmella can finally be together. "You gotta my new wife ona you head!" *boom* Stupid a-loving Journey song!
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Jun 13, 2019 03:51
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Not that I necessarily take this seriously, but you could also look at the ending in a sort of meta, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead kind of way. Tony is a fictional character, and now that his story is over, he stops existing. It doesn't matter if he gets shot or not; if the show is over he is done. There is no more Tony. Even if there was no bullet, Tony would be "dead", as time is meaningless as there are no more episodes. Its eternity and oblivion at that point, we know eventually Tony will get old and die of old age even if he doesn't get killed by an assassin. No matter what, he's dead. They're all dead. They only existed as long as we watched them.
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Jun 13, 2019 04:29
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*nerd finishes long gushing soliloquy about how rich his life has been since childhood, imaging what happens to luke and leia and han after return of the jedi* george lucas: "they died" nerd: 
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Jun 13, 2019 05:30
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Season 3, Episode 8 - He Is RisenJackie Aprile Jr posted:I can't stop now. At a frat party, Caitlin is in a GREAT mood because she's discovered a wonderful new medication called... Ecstasy! She hugs Meadow for the beautiful and heartwarming way she said,"Hey!" to her, pointing out her dealer was... Jackie Aprile Jr. Along with a Jewish friend of his - Dov - they're selling pills, and Meadow isn't at all upset, happy to see Caitlin in a good mood, even happier to see Jackie Jr. Caitlin getting ground on by some complete stranger who just wanders up behind her is all fine too, because somebody with deep depression, self harm and self-esteem issues randomly hooking up with a fratboy while high on drugs can surely only end well. Meadow gets Jackie's attention and they meet up, where she pulls out some cash and asks for some X. Unlike Christopher he doesn't hesitate to give her drugs, even offering her the "first one" for free. Like Christopher though, he warns her not to let her father know, though he treats it more as a joke than Christopher's angry terror, and she is happy to tell him she doesn't even talk to Tony anymore. At an illegal casino in the top floor of "Mancuso Insurance", Ralph Cifaretto excitedly chases the high of a winning streak at the craps table. The rest of the Aprile Crew are there, including captain Gigi who once again finds himself sidelined by Ralphie eating up all the attention. Gigi doesn't seem bothered though, he's got a big wad of cash in his own hand, he and Vito appear to be following Ralphie's lead and winning big. The good times stop when Tony and Paulie arrive to join Silvio and Christopher at the Blackjack table, and everybody has to come over to pay their respects. Ralphie takes his time, making a point of counting his money while Eugene and Vito go over to greet Tony. Gigi warns him not to be stupid before heading over himself. Finally Ralphie deigns to approach, still pissed off about getting punched by Tony for something as inconsequential as beating a pregnant woman to death in the backlot of the Bada Bing. The music playing seems appropriate as the two face off. Ralphie is subdued but not cowed, greeting him formally as Tony simply stares at him. Ralphie offers a weak,"You look good", the most he can bring himself to offer. But having waited the appropriate amount of time in silence to put Ralphie off-balance, Tony offers an olive branch, smiling and offering him a drink. Again, without his typical bravado, Ralphie simply declines. It's a huge mistake, because while Tony might have stepped out of line considering the "rules" of the mob, he is the Boss. This was a chance to be, if not friends, at least on a civil level. Ralphie leaves and a flat-faced Paulie asks Tony if they can just whack him and be done with this already. Tony plays it off, laughing that he's here to enjoy himself.   In Meadow's dorm-room, she and Jackie make out on her bed and he's moving fast, unbuckling her belt and trying to reach down her pants. She blasted from tequila but manages to slap his hand away and grumble at him not to do it, but her hand falls away and he reaches into his pocket for a condom. But as he does, he sees that she's already passed out asleep on the bed in the few seconds he'd turned his attention away. He tries to wake her, insisting he can't stop now, but she's comatose. He reaches for her panties again and her hand weakly flops at him in resistance, and with a deep sigh he realizes that nothing is gonna happen tonight... at least nothing mutual. This could have easily gotten very dark quickly, but Jackie - after a quick peek down her top to see what he's missing out on - exhibits at least a measure of self control and leaves her sleeping, quietly exiting the dorm room. It's sad that "didn't rape a passed out drunk girl" should be considered a positive character trait instead of just completely normal behavior. But it would seem to indicate that Jackie has a modicum of moral worth or some inherent respect/care for Meadow as a person. Later in the episode, we'll see this may be giving him too much credit. Tony and Silvio finish up their evening at Vesuvio, where Tony feels free to vent his rage at Ralphie's drink refusal and turning of his back. Silvio is in full agreement that Ralphie was in the wrong on this front, but carefully offers some warnings. He wouldn't be surprised if Paulie offered to kill Ralphie (he already has), who is a rising star thanks to all the money he brings in through union connections, and guys like Paulie see that as a threat to their own position. Silvo does agree Ralphie is a loose cannon though, the type to pull a "Jack Ruby" on you. Tony is furious at himself for having punched Ralphie and allowing things to get complicated, and Silvio - very gently - agrees that Tony hosed up by doing that. This gets Tony fired up again, but Silvio offers disturbingly pragmatic responses: yes he disrespected the Bing... but he's been barred from coming back. Yes he bashed that girl's brains in... but she was not related to Tony and she wasn't his goomar. All things considered, Ralphie has a legitimate beef with Tony. A consigliere, Silvio offers straightforward solutions that Tony, much as it pains him, must acknowledge are the only options on the table. He can kill Ralphie or make up with him. That's it, and to Silvio's mind the best option is to apologize. Tony refuses that idea, so Silvio suggests some kind of make-good: give him a piece of the casino or make him a captain. Tony can't do either, the casino is co-owned by New York (the 60-40 split mentioned in a previous episode) and Tony doesn't want Ralphie getting closer ties to Johnny Sack. The Aprile Crew is run by Gigi, and it would be a humiliating backtrack for him and just humiliating in general for Gigi to have that taken from him. Silvio offers no other options, they both know what the other option is if Tony can't make nice. Meanwhile Ralphie is having a similar late night dinner conversation, with Vito and Eugene. From his perspective, his decision to refuse the drink was absolutely the right thing to do and he's positive that Tony knows he was in the wrong for punching him now. Eugene agrees with a grateful Ralphie that Boss or no, you don't hit another Made guy, demonstrating surprising naivete from both of them. It's only Vito who seems to understand that no matter what the "rules" might be, the Boss gets to do whatever the hell they want and everybody else just has to live with it. Ralphie - still subdued after his recent coke binges but with the same "I do what I want" attitude - doesn't just want an apology from Tony, he wants him to drop to his knees to thank him for the money he brings in through construction alone. Eugene and Vito both cast worried looks around in case anybody heard that, and Ralphie waves off their fears, why should he be scared of some fat gently caress... then can't help but offer "no offense" to Vito next to him. Just like with Silvio, he acknowledges that had Tracee been related to Tony he could understand the attack, but he assumes that since there was no blood relation then Tony and Tracee must have been loving, which also serves to justify in his own head his brutal murder of her. He has another concern though, he and Rosalie Aprile are supposed to be having Thanksgiving at the Soprano house. Eugene, who has been nodding along to all of Ralphie's shittalking of Tony, is instantly impressed and jealous of Ralphie getting that honor, but the man himself has no desire to be there.   As Thanksgiving approaches, Hesh and Reverend Herman James Jr. pop into the Bada Bing together, the Reverend laughing that he had to sneak in because his parishioners wouldn't believe he is here to feed the hungry. He actually is, Christopher has brought a truck full of stolen turkeys, and they're giving the Reverend a bunch to give to his Church in the interests of their continued business relationship. The Reverend is looking forward to Thanksgiving but the Italians aren't, they're used to being overfed in general by their wives and mothers but things go to a whole new level at Thanksgiving and they're left stuffed to the gills. Outside, as Christopher and Benny toss turkeys to the Reverend, Hesh lets Tony know that Ralphie's refusal to drink with him is already the talk of the town. Tony sells this in his favor as much as he can, Ralphie was too scared to drink with him because Tony bitch-slapped him etc. Hesh is pragmatic like Silvio, he knows that Ralphie has to be dealt with, though it seems like in his mind there is only one option and it doesn't involve an apology. The Reverend says his goodbyes and leaves, and Christopher brings over a massive turkey for Tony. He grins to see it, until the size reminds him of why they need such a big bird: Ralph and Rosalie are supposed to be coming for Thanksgiving. Paulie guesses that Ralph wouldn't dare show up, but Tony understands how important saving face is: he can't give Ralph the option, he has to uninvite him before he can disrespect him further by not showing up. Oblivious to the stresses between Ralph and Tony, Rosalie asks Jackie if he can commit to Thanksgiving at the Sopranos. Jackie doesn't seem particularly keen, especially when he hears that the likely attendees will be Carmela's parents... but he is interested if Meadow will be there. Meanwhile Carmela is on the phone with Meadow, going down the list of who will be present, and Meadow "casually" asks if Jackie will be coming. After hanging up, Rosalie calls and Carmela notes the coincidence since she was just on the phone with Meadow who asked about Jackie. Rosalie's girlfriend sense immediately starts tingling, as she leaps forward in her seat to gasp that Jackie asked about Meadow, then thrills to the idea of the beautiful children the two could have. Carmela doesn't poo poo on the idea, but she doesn't put much stock in it either, dismissing it as Rosalie being too fond of her romance novels and stressing that her big concern is that she brings her almond torte to Thanksgiving. Tony arrives with his massive turkey, dropping it onto the kitchen counter with a massive thump. Carmela is surprised at the size but grateful, considering how many people are coming. Tony warns her there'll be at least two less though, informing her without explanation that she must call Rosalie and tell her that she and Ralph can't come. Carmela is shocked and rightfully put out, she was just on the phone with her, what the hell can she say? Tony makes his feelings clear if not the reasons why: they're not coming, and she can either find a nice excuse or he'll call Rosalie himself and give her a nasty one. Grabbing antacids out of the grocery, he pops them down like candy for his stomach problems, but doesn't offer Carmela an answer even on that when she asks him. Tasked with preparing a massive meal for Thanksgiving and dealing with stress of her own, Carmela is frustrated that Tony is only making everything harder by not communicating with her. Therapy is supposed to help with that, but when he arrives for his next session, he's surprised to find a very beautiful woman sitting in the waiting room already. She's on the phone with a client, and he overhears her name is Gloria Trillo. She immediately impresses as confident, intelligent, forthright and utterly in control. She's a saleswoman at Globe Mercedes, pushing her client to come in to buy a pre-owned 2001 S600, dictating the terms of the conversation, making it clear that this is something he is going to have to go out of HIS way to come in and get at a time and date that suits HER. Tony watches her work with great pleasure as he checks his watch and then settles down on the couch opposite her. After she hangs up they sit quietly for a moment until she asks if he has an appointment, amused but not angry or worried at the concept that Melfi might have double-booked them. She normally comes on Thursdays but rescheduled due to Thanksgiving, and Tony explains this is his usual time. He offers that he's trying to quit smoking and she jokes that she's a serial killer who has murdered several relationships, making him laugh. He insists she take his appointment but she can't do that, and when Melfi walks in on the two of them she admits screwing up, she doesn't remember that the rescheduled day was Tuesday. She's going to go but Tony again offers to give up his spot, agreeing with Melfi he'll come back later in the evening. He casts another appreciative glance the woman's way as she heads inside, fascinated by what he thinks is a completely different type of woman for those he usually goes after.   To quote Tony himself when Richie was going to marry Janice,"Oh you poor bastard." As the day fades, Carmela calls Rosalie and spins her a bullshit story about her father getting poor results on his white blood cell count, and as a result they've decided to just have a quiet family-only Thanksgiving. Rosalie, who lost her husband to cancer, is immediately sympathetic and accepts Carmela's story without hesitation and waves off any apologies she tries to make. After they say their goodbyes, Carmela crosses herself, disgusted that she lied to her friend, probably disgusted that she alluded to cancer without coming right out and saying it, knowing that Rosalie would respond most sympathetically to that. At Rosalie's, Ralphie overheard the latter part of the conversation and Rosalie explains that Hugh is sick and Carmela had to cancel Thanksgiving. She heads off, while Ralphie ponders this, knowing that this all seems a little too convenient. Tony returns for his 7pm rescheduled appointment. He discusses his current "management problem", which is keeping him up at nights as he tries to figure out how to deal with a problem employee. He has to dance around the specifics, saying the problem employee caused the early retirement of another young employee, and he would like to "put him out to pasture" but he's too valuable to do that. Melfi can't work much with this but she tries her best, asking if there is a personal relationship involved that is adding to the complication. He doesn't know how to answer that, he's already tied himself in knots trying to figure out how to address this without saying anything. So instead he sits back and says something that SHOULD be setting alarm bells ringing in Melfi's head. At her "recommendation" he has been reading Sun Tzu's The Art of War, and he's found it a fascinating and helpful guide in spite of its age and the foreign culture it was written in. Melfi of course suggested the book to him sarcastically (to a "gently caress you!" reply from him) as a way to be a better gangster, but this is what he is getting out of therapy. He is learning to be a better gangster, to control or mitigate his impulses or redirect them to achieve his goals. Yes he's getting an element of help with his personal and family issues, but they tend to only go surface deep. His most tangible achievements is that he's learning how to better manipulate people for his own goals. If any of that registers with Melfi, she gives no sign here. Instead she listens as he adorably screws up the pronunciation of Machiavelli and his work The Prince, calling him Prince Matchabelli instead. He found that book (actually the Cliff Notes) "OK", but Sun Tzu really spoke to him, especially the part about balking your opponent's power to force them to reveal themselves. Seeing his time is running out, he changes the subject, who was the lady he met earlier? Is she a patient? What does somebody as confident and professional as her need with therapy? Melfi of course can't and won't tell him anything about another patient (how would he feel if she spoke openly about him) and he doesn't press, just saying it made him wonder. He gets up to go, and noting it is getting dark he casually asks without any kind of ulterior motive if she'd like him to walk her to her car. She freezes for a second before politely declining, saying she has work to catch up on. He obviously noticed her hesitation, and is clearly pondering what reason that might be for, is she scared of him? Does she think he would try something? In any case, he heads out none the wiser as to why his casual offer knocked her off-balance.   On Thanksgiving, the menfolk settle on the couch to watch football as the women work in the kitchen, though Janice isn't gonna let traditional gender roles define her position. She brings over snacks and asks how the game is going, Tony complaining she doesn't even know who is playing. She insists she does, asking AJ to tell Hugh the story of how she served Barry Sanders at a Kenny Rogers once. Hugh is confused, Colonel Sanders? She tries to explain and AJ finally gets the opportunity to "tell" that story too: "Yeah, she served him." Janice has a new boyfriend who is present, falling asleep on Tony's shoulder. His name is Aaron, they meet at her prayer group now that she has gone religious, and he suffers from narcolepsy. Tony, fed up of her presence and Aaron's dipping head, gets up and heads into the kitchen, Janice quietly slipping into his seat before Christopher spots the chance to get up off the floor. In the kitchen, Carmela grabs the turkey and takes it out to the dining room, revealing Meadow who was standing behind her, holding a plate of bread. A literal flashback airs of what Tony is thinking, as he remembers Tracee coming up to him at the Bada-Bing with her home-made bread as a thank you. It catches him by surprise, Tracee was a pretty young girl with some messed up issues that he happily exploited for money. But after Ralphie bashed her brains out, he can't help but think of his own daughter: the same age but thankfully on a completely different track to Tracee, privy to advantages and opportunities Tracee never was. The death of one can't help but bring to mind fears about the other. As Meadow walks by, she sees him looking, and he approaches her with a serious look on his face. Despite the disastrous end to her relationship with Noah, she's remained pissed at him for his backwards racism, but she's caught off-guard when he quietly asks if she understands that he loves her more than anything in this world. It clearly strikes her right in the heart, she's touched but confused, and he admits that things haven't been great between them lately but he doesn't know what he'd do if anything ever happened to her. Carmela's call to dinner breaks the spell and he lets her go, staring after her with love and regret. For her part, her father's unfiltered and open love has triggered that part of her that still desperately craves not just his attention but his love, and left her feeling surprised but happy. At Rosalie's, she's making the best of the situation as she enjoys the quiet simplicity of a small Thanksgiving, just her, Ralphie, Jackie Jr and her mother. Ralphie is pouting though, he didn't want to go to Tony's, but he didn't want to go because he chose not to. Instead he was uninvited, worst of all in a way where it would seem pathetic if he was to complain or lash out about it. He has been balked, will he reveal his strength? Rosalie asks if he is okay and he grunts he's fine, complaining about her asking, but then complaining about Jackie when he immediately gets up to go when Rosalie says he doesn't need to stay for desert if he doesn't want to. This pisses off Jackie, his mother said he could go, where does Ralphie get off complaining to him for doing what his mother asks? Rosalie makes peace, happily telling him he should go see if Meadow wants to go see a movie. At the Sopranos, Hugh is offering some home craftsman advice to Tony who is playfully underselling his own efforts in that field. Unlike the Aprile household, their plate is overloaded with food and the table is surrounded by far more than just the immediate family Carmela claimed. Hugh and Mary, Christopher and Adriana, Janice and Aaron, Meadow and AJ join Carmela and Tony for 10 in total, making Rosalie and Ralphie conspicuous by their absence. Tony spots that Aaron has fallen asleep again and nudges Christopher, and throws some food at his head, making everybody giggle except for Janice (Mary doesn't seem to notice). The doorbell rings and Mary freaks out, thinking the worse, who could that be!?! "The Boston Strangler, Jesus ma" offers Carmela, not amused by her mother's overreaction. Christopher gets the door, its Jackie, and everybody is pleased to see him including Tony. If there is any concern about Jackie noticing just how big the dinner is, it isn't obvious and Jackie gives no sign of even noticing. Aaron is particularly pleased to see him, asking if he has heard the Good News? Christ has Risen! Jackie explains he just came over to see if Meadow wanted to do something, like see a movie perhaps? Meadow blushes happily as Adriana lightly nudges her in excitement and Mary's face is glowing: this handsome young Italian boy has come to ask Meadow out? This is wonderful! Meadow says she was going to go over and see Hunter, would he like to come? He's down to go anywhere, so she bounces happily up the stairs to get changed. That leaves him standing with the rest of the family, everybody thrilled except for an uneasy Tony and Carmela, while Janice quietly ponders the idea of a Soprano and an Aprile being together, clearly thinking of her planned marriage to Richie and how that ended up. Tony obviously wants to change the subject, so asks Jackie how college is going at the moment. Jackie, who has all but dropped out, claims his GPA is going up, because he wouldn't be able to offer any details of classes he hasn't been taking. He drives her to Hunter's, asking her to forget that and come out with him to Dov's. Hunter is expecting her though, and since he isn't particularly good at arguments he goes with what works and leans forward to kiss her, which she is more than happy to reciprocate. He tries again, they could hang out all weekend, they wouldn't even have to do anything. She's tempted, but she has to study for midterms, doesn't he? He admits openly to her that he's stopped going to Rutgers, Organic chemistry and nucleotides weren't for him. What he wants to do is Men's Fashion - not the "faggy" part of it mind, but to be Hugo Boss. Basically he's like Christopher with the movies, he just kind of wants to be in it as a "player" without actually really understanding any of it or how it works. She suggests he shift from Rutgers to a fashion school but he's already back to his original purpose, asking her again to come with him to Dov's, putting on all his charm and good looks to whisper how he wants to be with her so bad. He's attractive and charming enough to make her want to go, but she's smart enough to resist that. She's still hurting from Noah, and she explains that she just can't, which reveals the sullen, bratty part of him pretty quickly. So she won't go with him but she'll go with that black guy? She asks him to give her some time to heal and he doesn't respond, so she gets out of the car and he IMMEDIATELY drives away without a word, leaving her to run inside to Hunter's, her good mood ruined.   Tony sits in boxer and undershirt on the end of the bed, stuffed with food and channel surfing. Carmela comes out to prepare for bed, concerned about how much everybody else - especially Rosalie - are so eager for Jackie and Meadow to get together. She admits that herself and Tony were young when they married too, but emotionally speaking Meadow and Jackie are far younger, and she's not keen to see anybody locked down. Tony is distracted by the tv (and his gas) and not really paying attention until he sees an ad for a Mercedes. "Casually" he comments that he's been thinking about getting one (after balking at a 50k donation for Columbia), and Carmela has no objections, she thinks they're cute cars. In Tony's screwed up way of thinking, this is effectively her giving him the green light to have an affair. Post-Thanksgiving, Paulie brings adult nephew/crew-member Little Paulie Germani to play cards with Patsy and Silvio. They discuss Tony disinviting Ralphie to Thanksgiving, Patsy complimenting Tony for being able to see the big picture (which in the past including the assassination of his brother). Tony and Gigi (who pulled the trigger on that assassination) arrive and greet everybody, especially Little Paulie, but make it clear they need the room to themselves. Silvio offers to buy everybody drinks and they head out, leaving Tony and Gigi to speak in private. The subject is Ralphie, Tony wants to know what he is saying about him behind his back, but Ralphie knows better than to say anything in front of Gigi. He is still breaking Gigi's balls about being passed over for Captain, only getting worse since Tony hit him. Tony cuts him off mid-complaint to remind him that his job is to make Tony's life easier, not the other way around. Gigi is quick to assure him he isn't complaining, he's just answering the question Tony asked him: Ralphie is a frustrating person to be around, they both know that. Tony accepts that, but he wants Gigi to accept that the end result of this won't necessarily involve Ralphie "going away". Gigi simply notes that Ralphie is just one more pressure on a stack of them, including home renovations and a Freon "deal" they're trying to work out at the moment, plus he has two kids going to college etc. Tony pats him on the shoulder and assures him he is doing a good job as Captain, he just needs to hang in there. Gigi nods and leaves, Silvio coming back into the room and noting how tired and stressed he looks since becoming Captain. Tony agrees, but since it's always got to be about Tony, he says Gigi should try HIS job to see what stress is really like. Johnny Sack isn't stressed at all though. Sitting in his lawn listening to his radio and smoking, he's enjoying the grey New Jersey sky when Ginny brings Ralphie over to see him. Ginny gives Johnny a kiss and heads off for her physical therapy sessions, Johnny watching her go and commenting that she used to be a real Hoofer which took a terrible strain on her joints. Ralphie's concern isn't Ginny though, it's Tony: he disinvited him to Thanksgiving. Johnny Sack, who swore he wasn't coming to New Jersey to get involved in the DiMeo Family, is fully aware of all of it and admits it isn't good. Ralphie plays the victim, what did he do to Tony to warrant this attitude? He turned down a drink? He wasn't thirsty! Johnny makes a token effort to interrupt but then simply sits and lets him rant as he smokes, letting him wear himself out airing his grievances about how he's such a great earner but Tony is always up his rear end and then he had the gall to hit him, HIM! Ralphie, a Made guy and a great earner! But when Ralphie pauses and comments he's not being left with a lot of options, Johnny shuts him right down, warning him not to talk crazy. "You wanna commit suicide, pills are a lot easier!" he snaps, getting out of his seat and walking away, forcing Ralphie to join him or get left behind. Ralphie raises the possibility, would Carmine be willing to take him over to the Lupertazzi Family? Johnny scoffs at the idea, he may be a big earner but Carmine has no idea who he is, and he doesn't even bother answering Ralphie's strained suggestion that Johnny himself could tell Carmine. That WOULD be direct interference and the cause of a lot of issues, so he explains to Ralphie that while he understands Tony can be difficult at times, just like his father Johnny Boy and just like his Uncle Junior, they need somebody to demonize, a foe to fight. But the Sopranos and New York have a long history together and that isn't going to change for anybody, let alone Ralphie. The unstated facts are clear: Ralphie, for all his crazy antics and projected self-confidence and even all the money he brings in.... he's a nobody. He's not the star he wants to be, he's not Tony Soprano. Yes he's a Made guy, yes he doesn't mind and even enjoys getting violent, but he's scratched his way up to to this high a point by virtue of the money he's made. Tony was a greater earner before he became Captain and then Boss too, but he also had the name, the connections, the history, and though it is overplayed as a legendary thing, the Feech La Manna job cemented he and Jackie Aprile's status as rising stars. Richie's just some violent rear end in a top hat who spent a long time in Miami doing coke and wheedling his way into enough unions that he made himself a valuable cog. Perhaps indispensable, but still just a cog. This is why Tony can get away with punching him, and Johnny notes that Ralphie brought it on himself with what he did to "that girl" anyway. Tracee no longer has a name to them, she's simply "that girl", but it's better than Ralphie's description of the woman he got pregnant, to him she was simply a "hoooar" who hit him and got what she deserved. But seeing Johnny's completely unimpressed face at this series of excuses, he attempts to find some stronger justification, trying out the idea that it wasn't his kid she was pregnant with, then moving to blaming it on the coke for driving him wild. Johnny has had enough, starting his walk again, Ralphie falling into place beside him. As Ralphie continues to offer excuses/blame the coke, Johnny simply repeats in different ways an extremely simple concept: Apologize to Tony and everything will be sorted out. But how will Ralphie live with the humiliation? Johnny ponders that, he can't deny it would be untenable for a guy like Ralphie to feel like everybody was laughing behind his back: would he accept capo of his crew? Absolutely not, insists Ralphie. So Johnny has dinner at Vesuvio's with Tony, where he offers a sanitized version of his meeting with Ralphie and promises that Ralphie - who rejected the idea of an apology - is keen to apologize. But with the Esplanade soon to open, it sure would be nice if their pointman felt appreciated... maybe Tony should make him capo of his crew! Tony, who admitted that a genuine apology would save him the trouble of making a "very unpleasant decision", refuses, he would never let somebody like Ralphie become a Captain, that poor girl (again, no name) was only 20-years-old. Johnny, smooth as silk, says that Capo was Ralphie's idea and he dismissed it out of hand himself.... but she was a whore. Tony, who has connected his own daughter to the dead Tracee, becomes upset, making it clear through a big, fake and transparent smile that he has no interest in talking about "that situation" ever again. Johnny doesn't push it, he tested the waters and stopped the moment he found resistance. Tony reminds him that he said he wasn't going to get involved in New Jersey business, and Johnny laughs it off as this just being two friends talking.   It's hard not to commiserate with Johnny Sack, after all this is all about money so who cares about personal vendettas and upset feelings? It must be hard to be the only person who is able to put grievances aside in the interest of financial gain, why can't they all just be more like him? The next step on Johnny's plan to settle this New Jersey bullshit before it affects the millions of dollars in the Esplanade is to call Ralphie the next morning and tell him Tony is receptive to an apology. Ralphie, who may have started to grasp just how deeply in poo poo he is, is hugely relieved... and he's been thinking about it and maybe, maybe he would like to be Capo of his crew after all! Johnny makes no promises, just suggests, saying that he should talk to Tony who is "very open" to working something out. Ralphie hears what he wants to hear, and offers Johnny a thousand thank yous before hanging up. He spots Jackie walking into the kitchen and cracks a joke about him being up before noon, and is surprised to discover that Jackie is actually moving out of Rosalie's and into Dov's place. It seems he got called up to do his military service in Israel, which means his apartment is at least temporarily free. Revealing that he knew about Dov's "business", Ralphie quietly tells Jackie that if he needs a new supply of Ecstasy, he knows a guy he can hook him up with. Jackie pretends not to know what he means, Ralphie ignoring that and saying he's just going him a favor. But he can't help himself, in spite of what he thinks is the successful resolution of this business with Tony he has to get the last word in. So he tells Jackie that Tony only canceled Thanksgiving to save face because he knew Ralphie wouldn't go. He stooped so low as to have his wife call Jackie's mother and lie to her face. Which is all technically true, but far from the diplomatic option after coming so close to death. At Melfi's therapy session with Elliot, she takes the opportunity to vent about those patients of hers who she finds frustrating due to the petty nature of their so-called problems. She acknowledges some have real issues, but others are just overgrown children who want validation. The crux of the matter is that she was raped, but she is the one who has to sit around and listen to other people venting. She wants to be able to say she hurts, that she needs help too, and she offers genuine thanks Elliot when he compliments her strength of will to continue on with her work in the wake of her trauma. When he brings up Tony (he brings him up, not Melfi) she tells him about his recent offer to walk her to her car, and how she nearly collapsed weeping in gratitude into his arms before getting a grip on herself. She laughs at herself, waving a dismissive arm in a manner reminiscent of Livia, as if just the thought of viewing Tony as a knight in (white satin?) shining armor is sign enough of how desperately she craves acknowledgement of her progress and strength in coming back from such a horrific ordeal. Ralphie goes through a very different type of ordeal at Vesuvio's, where Tony eats alone the dining room watched over from afar by Paulie and Christopher. Tony barely acknowledges his arrival, but Ralphie has swallowed his pride, buried his normal bluster and - while he does offer the same excuses of too much cocaine - he unreservedly apologizes for his actions, admitting he was in the wrong. He's a supplicant, all his fire gone, kowtowing at last to Tony in an effort to put things back on an even keel. It's everything that Tony wanted.... and it's not enough. Tony acts like he doesn't know the purpose of Ralphie's request to see him, pretends like he doesn't know what he is apologizing for and makes him come out and say it. He doesn't let him sit, even when he asks, and when Ralphie finally finishes his agonizing apology, Tony just goes back to eating before casting a dismissive look his way and asking if there is anything else to this meeting? Disappointed (furious more likely), he turns and walks away looking like a broken man. Tony is enjoying some more of his Sun Tzu inspired tactics, but he's made a stunningly stupid move. He got Ralphie to submit to him and he couldn't stop himself from rubbing it in, creating more hostility between them when this was an opportunity to credit Ralphie for doing the right thing and coming out looking like the bigger man. Instead he comes across like a child, an overgrown sulking rear end in a top hat who gets off on power-trips. It's short-term thinking, but Tony has a long history of doing things he knows are stupid simply for the immediate satisfaction of doing them... and then quickly regretting his temper getting the best of him. Gigi joins the rest of the Aprile Crew playing cards, bearing turkey sandwiches from his wife leftover from Thanksgiving, because he can't eat another bite. He's pleased to see Ralphie isn't around, making the others laugh when he reacts with alarm to the question on if they should find him, saying they should just enjoy the peace for once. Gigi's gain is Johnny Sack's loss, as he tries to enjoy watching the official groundbreaking on the Esplanade on the news but a newly arrived Ralphie won't shut up bitching about Tony's treatment of him. Ralphie, whose entire claim to fame is the money he brings in (it sure as poo poo isn't his personality), doesn't give a poo poo about that, he wants to vent. Tony made him bow and scrape like a servant, and he doesn't care of Johnny's indifferent response that this is just normal posturing. The one thing that really gets Johnny involved though is when Ralphie complains that Tony is going down. He's immediately enraged himself, asking Ralphie if he's really that loving stupid to come in and talk to him like that? Ralphie won't be denied though, he's given his life to "this thing" and this is the thanks he gets?   Meanwhile Gigi, the man who got the job Ralphie really wanted, sits on the toilet, reading a porno mag as he desperately tries to take a poo poo, all backed up from Thanksgiving. Silvio gives him a call but he grunts he'll call him back, going back to strain out a turd. A bizarre and strange scene to show seemingly out of nowhere. Tony pops around to Uncle Junior's, who is sitting wrapped up watching his soap operas again. He's got the heat cranked up and snaps at Tony not to touch the thermostat, wishing he could be down in Boca again like he used to do regularly before he hosed everything up when people found out he was guilty of the heinous crime of being good at eating pussy. Tony has brought him leftovers from Thanksgiving, but he says not to bother, food is going right through him at the moment as he recovers from the chemotherapy. Tony grabs a seat next to him and asks him what has truly been on his mind: Gloria Trillo. The name seems familiar to him, did his grandfather ever work with somebody named Trillo? As a contractor perhaps? Junior considers it and vaguely recalls he did know somebody called Trillo who had seven daughters, but no other information. In any case, he's more interested in the situation with Ralph Cifaretto, what is Tony's plan there? He may be a stubborn, overgrown child prone to temper tantrums, but Tony has developed somewhat as a person through therapy. Instead of flying into a rage or demanding Junior stay out of his business, he asks him to give his thoughts on the situation. Junior, who himself has had some growth as a result of his quasi-captive status, lays out his own strategic thinking: Gigi is a good kid, but not suited to the role of Capo of the Aprile Crew. He doesn't dispute Tony's assessment of Gigi as strong, well-respected and a good earner, rather making the valid point that Gigi will always be considered an outsider by the Aprile Crew: a Ghibelline. But he agrees with Tony that taking Gigi out and replacing him with Ralph now would also reflect badly on Tony. So what's the answer? There isn't one, and that's what being the Boss is all about. You enjoy smooth waters, you ride out rocky ones, you do the best you can, try not to gently caress up too badly, and find your pleasures where you can. It's solid advice, the type of wisdom that Junior could have used during his own too-short run as "Boss" while Tony was content to run things from behind the scenes. Back at the card game, Vito needs to use the toilet but Gigi is STILL in there. They knock and knock but there is no answer, and getting concerned they break down the door... and find him dead on the toilet. It's an ignominious end to Gigi's short time as Captain, and to be frank a rather cheap way for the writers to deal with the rock and the hard place that they'd written Tony into. At the funeral that soon follows, everybody pays their respects but all have to acknowledge that it was a particularly humiliating way to go, even if there are worse ways to die. As Silvio tries to remember who else other than Elvis died this way (mistaking Don Simpson as a producer of the cartoon), Tony considers his new problem: who will replace Gigi? Considering the Esplanade, the obvious answer is Ralph, but after all they've been through recently can he really give him this? He considers the alternatives: Vito, Eugene (barely Made) and Donny K, none of whom look particularly promising or like leadership material. That leaves Ralph or another "Ghibelline" and all the problems that will bring with it.  Tony goes to Veusvio's late that night after the funeral as Artie is closing up. They share a drink to Gigi's memory, he was a regular and a nice guy. Ralphie arrives, again subdued from his usual high energy chaos, greeting Tony and making it plain to Artie without being rude (another change) that this is meant to be a private conversation. This time Tony lets him sit, staring a hole through him before blankly telling him that he is making Ralphie a Captain. Ralphie is delighted, but when Tony offers no reciprocation of his joy his face falls, and he sits expectantly, irritating Tony who asks what he wants. Ralphie, who has just gotten everything he ever wanted, wants more of course. He is Captain now... but is he Captain because he's the best man for the job or because there was nobody else good enough? Tony controls himself, making a point back that Ralphie can understand: he's going to be making a lot more money now. Ralphie can accept that, the generation of money is how he defines success and therefore power, and even he isn't reckless enough to look a gift horse in the mouth. Tony finally offers a smile, reminding Ralphie you should be careful what you wish for. Ralphie can't help but smile at that, and he attempts to make amends once more by this time being the one to ask Tony to join him for a drink, something he rejected when Tony offered at the start of the episode. You can see the light go off over Tony's head, the sheer satisfaction he gets from simply downing his glass, standing up and walking away without a word. It's petty and childish and short-sighted, but Tony has had his "revenge" for Ralphie rejecting him earlier. This leaves Ralphie sitting along, having gained the thing he wanted most after all these years... and not happy in the slightest.  Another night, Jackie and Dino play pool at a bar, discussing the word on the street about Tony and Ralphie's falling out. But Dino quickly gets side-tracked when he learns that Jackie was at Tony's for Thanksgiving, though he admits he only arrived after dinner to take Meadow out. That sidetracks Dino again, as they look over to where Meadow and Hunter are drinking (she apparently got over his boorish behavior on Thanksgiving night) and Dino continuously asks Jackie if he is loving Meadow yet, laughing as Jackie brags about how hot she is which makes him realize that Jackie hasn't screwed her yet. Here's where Jackie makes an admission which puts his decision not to take advantage of her in her dorm room into a new light. He tells Dino that's second-guessing having sex with her at all, because she's Tony Soprano's daughter and that could open him up to a world of hurt. Is the only thing that kept him from raping her the thought that her dad might kill him? Meadow approaches, complaining that he'd promised to take her to Vassar to see a band. Dino offers double-or-nothing on the pool and Jackie agrees to another game, smugly telling her to go sit down, a handsome guy who is used to girls doing whatever he tells them to. Instead, she grabs his keys and runs off drunkenly laughing, getting into his car as he chases her outside and trying to drive away... and almost hitting another car and crashing over the embankment into the road. Jackie is horrified, whether for her or for fear of what Tony will do to him or both, and races to check on her. She's shaken up but unhurt, saved by the airbag, crying and clutching onto him as she makes sloppy drunken apologies for wrecking the car he loves so much. It's fine he insists, he cares more about her than some car he can just claim was stolen, and he offers to get her home. But this display of care has penetrated deep into her drunken heart, as she tells him that she doesn't want to go, she just wants to be with him. Just like that, all thoughts or fears of Tony Soprano disappear. With the Ralphie business supposedly finally settled, Tony finally makes good on his "casual" suggestion to Carmela that he might get a Mercedes. He heads to Globe Mercedes during the day, where he quickly catches the eye of Gloria Trillo who is clearly pleased to see him, and just as pleased that he made the effort to find her. They greet each other and they flirt about something that Tony has his eye on and wants to take for a test drive: talking about the car but never taking his eyes off of her. She tells an associate she's taking a customer out for a test drive, and lets Tony usher her into her seat. As he heads around to get into his, there's a wonderful little bit of business as Gloria quickly adjusts her hair and checks her makeup in the rearview mirror. Later, Melfi gets a call from Gloria who explains that she has to cancel her session, she doesn't need to reschedule, she'll just see her next week. Gloria is lying naked in bed, and as she and Melfi talk, Tony emerges into the room blurting out happily that he picked them up some wine cooler to enjoy. Gloria says her goodbyes, hanging up and leaving Melfi pondering in concern: there's no way she didn't recognize that voice. Meanwhile, Tony and Gloria are making out in the bed as The Captain plays. It's appropriate, the bedroom they're in is on the Stugots, the Mercedes parked outside, ducks and gulls competing to get into the water between the two. This is where Tony would bring Irina, but that relationship is over. He banged strippers and born-again sanitation secretaries and the like since then, but in his own hosed up way he's probably thought of himself as faithful or otherwise restrained in honor of Carmela's request to him to be true. All that's gone now, because he's found himself a new goomar, one who can take care of herself, who is strong and self-confident and nothing like any of the other women in his life.  Tony Soprano, you poor bastard. Season 3: Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood | Proshai, Livushka | Fortunate Son | Employee of the Month | Another Toothpick | University | Second Opinion | He Is Risen | The Telltale Moozadell | ...To Save Us All from Satan's Power | Pine Barrens | Amour Fou | Army of One Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2019 13:08
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Jerusalem is doing all the heavy lifting here but I'm really grateful for it. Really cool to read these recaps. You should really compile these into a book or something. I read some of those psychiatric articles and, in an effort to generate discussion and galvanize the thread: What's everyone take on what Tony really got out of the therapy, if anything? Some people said he used it to be a more effective gangster, but I've always felt it was the opposite. He TRIED to use it that way but overall he failed miserably, since those things don't mesh. If anything, it made him less effective; more soft, (slightly) more self aware and more sensitive, and obviously none of it had a takeaway for him that led to real change. He didn't truly WANT to change. He just wanted his panic attacks gone. In his line of work, true change is next to impossible and certainly anything that leads him towards behavioral evolution that leads to a healthier mental state is absolutely going to render him less effective as a loving mob boss. Empathy, sympathy, self realization, forgiveness, any increased capacity for guilt and shame, any true understanding of his parental issues, things that chip away at his toxic masculinity... They're all going to erode and weaken the sociopathic things make for an effective mob boss. Controlling his anger might be the ONE thing that could help him but he applies it so sporadically and haphazardly that he may as well not even bother. There's no genuine path available for him to reconcile his "career" with any steps towards psychiatric breakthroughs and improved mental health. Carmela is in the same proverbial boat, really (but that's another topic) So many of the mistakes Tony makes are a direct result of the emotions drummed up during his therapy. I think we see this demonstrated fairly often and I could list several examples but I'm curious what others think. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 22:56
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Food Boner posted:*nerd finishes long gushing soliloquy about how rich his life has been since childhood, imaging what happens to luke and leia and han after return of the jedi* Nah its worse than that. Fans & Universe writers: "Here's the story of Han's 3 kids and Luke's wife and all this interesting stuff that happens..." Disney: "Nah nevermind we're reversing all that" Fans: "Wait huh? Lucas you're okay with this? You said it was canon though." Lucas: "Don't care, got paid" Abrams: "Han's kid is a dick, kills him" Johnson: "Luke is old and bitter, Yoda hates the Jedi, Leia actually has more force powers than Luke" Killing them all off between the two trilogies would have been far more respectful.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:15
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Remember the Knights of Ren? Yeah, me either. I kinda dig the new trilogy because I always wanted to see what it would be like for random people to stumble in and try to make a cohesive multi-movie storyline that wasn't a horror series. Turns out it's hilarious.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:20
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I really like that moment with Johnny Sack going "hey, what about capo?" and Ralphie goes "no, no way" And then later he's like "Ralphie suggested Capo, but I threw cold water on it right away" Its such a clear double-face moment, I love that. But like you said, Johnny is also like the only level-headed guy there, who doesn't give a poo poo and just wants things to go on making money.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:22
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Solice Kirsk posted:Remember the Knights of Ren? Yeah, me either. I kinda dig the new trilogy because I always wanted to see what it would be like for random people to stumble in and try to make a cohesive multi-movie storyline that wasn't a horror series. Turns out it's hilarious. We're supposed to accept on faith that A) Even though the empire was destroyed along with the death star, that was all actually a fake happy ending because the New Order basically just stepped in and took over like nothing happened B) Luke trained Kylo Ren, got scared of him, hosed up and caused Ben to turn evil. Both of these are extremely important, powerful, core moments to the series, which fundamentally change major things about characters we knew from the old trilogy and cared about deeply, and they both happen off-camera and are entirely presented to us by after-the-fact exposition dumps of tell-dont-show. That could be done well, having those events happen before the film and drop us in-media-res, except they'd need to show all kinds of things that tell us about how those things happened. They just don't. I can see what they were going for with the New Order being like modern neo-nazi upstarts, but none of it is remotely close to well established. Anybody I've talked to who is a fan of the new movies says "well just read this book and it explains how the new order came to power and who snoke is" and that's not how the movies are supposed to work. Everything about the new series just takes itself for granted. There's ships, there's an empire, we're the plucky rebels, it just assumes these things without actually coming up with reasons for them or establishing how they exist in relation to each other. The whole thing as a result is just going through the motions. I'd kill for something original and interesting. What if after the Empire falls, the Rebellion takes power but ends up slowly becoming corrupted? What if the Jedi actually establish complete dominance of the universe, and force everybody to live according to their laws, which ends up being oppressive? Abrams though is just "more good guys blowing up bad guys" repeat forever, and Johnson was "I'm going to subvert your expectations by making a bad movie that contradicts all star wars canon". Anyways this is a derail and I'm just bitter.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:28
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No Star Wars poo poo in the loving Sopranos thread? Mods?
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Jun 13, 2019 23:38
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Zaphod42 posted:Its such a clear double-face moment, I love that. But like you said, Johnny is also like the only level-headed guy there, who doesn't give a poo poo and just wants things to go on making money. It's funny how Johnny Sack is really good at playing people until he becomes boss himself. Then he turns into Junior with a much larger family.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:02
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Yeah Johnny Sac went from the most level headed guy to a complete mess. It was believable though, he was a great character. The scene at his daughters wedding was great. All those years of murder and violence and for what, he can't even enjoy his daughters wedding and is an embarrassment to his family and his crew.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:25
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Ornithology posted:Yeah Johnny Sac went from the most level headed guy to a complete mess. It was believable though, he was a great character. The scene at his daughters wedding was great. All those years of murder and violence and for what, he can't even enjoy his daughters wedding and is an embarrassment to his family and his crew. My favorite little moment of when Johnny is sick/in prison is when Tony steals a pair of sunglasses from Johnny's brother-in-law because it's just second nature for Tony to rip people off when he has the chance.
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Jun 14, 2019 01:01
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The whole Tony used the therapy to be a better gangster thing is a little dumb as his crew was constantly imploding and he honestly got by with more lucky breaks than anything
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Jun 14, 2019 02:02
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Yeah I think he got literally nothing from therapy, and he certainly didn’t use it to be better at the mafia Tony ended up in therapy by chance (refereed by doctor cooz right?) and he mostly used it to vent and tell lies and half truths, and mourn for a horse and for the girl murdered at the bing, both of which he can’t do in front of his family (remember when Hugh just didn’t give a poo poo about the horse lol). He’s truthful about his childhood and then later mocks Melfi “ooooh my mom came from a roast real fuckin interesting” He’s lying when Carmela’s in therapy with him. The most truth he tells to Melfi is when he’s talking about who he’s loving and even then it just seems more honest because it’s stuff he would never tell Carmela. You can’t actually deal with those issues effectively if you’re just lying; you might as well be talking to yourself It always seemed to me he got literally nothing but medication, as well as separate personal complications that made him resent the therapy even more. She becomes a woman he can tell his problems to on his terms without much resistance and then leave an hour later. It’s a respite from his boring friends who actually don’t like him and the Bing which is a pretty miserable place to spend most of your days and nights I think he’s severely depressed when it starts and severely depressed when it ends. Maybe he’s more numb I don’t know, but nothing much changes besides the passing of time now I have a few thoughts on the last jedi... painynumbs fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 03:00
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