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Piell posted:RPGnet literally bans saying you support Trump Yeah this general take of how it's 2013 still and nothing has changed since then is pretty weird.Gamergate support in any form is banned, trump support banned, fash banned, homophobia, misogyny, transphobia etc. There's absolutely been some lovely decisions in the past by the mods there, but the last 3-4 years in particular they've positioned the whole site around saying gently caress off to facists. Which is why the actual fascistic rpg site and pundit hates the place so much. PST fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 22:36
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They're so antifa you can't say, "gently caress you, fascist," without a mod warning I mean I get your points, but anytime people critique RPGnet people line up saying how great they are but then there's that thing where being rude to fascists on their way out the door gets you red text.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:44
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Also they mod people for bringing up Paradox White Wolf's many missteps in the context of current Paradox-run White Wolf stuff because it was a different company. RPG.net is a bizarre moderation state I've never seen anywhere else.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:52
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Most moderation is a layered series of late oveereactions to past failures.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:10
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Darwinism posted:They're so antifa you can't say, "gently caress you, fascist," without a mod warning I imagine most forums don't want the community to get too used to self-policing. While it's a positive in this particular context, more broadly it's also kind of a open invitation for shitposting and brigading in order to achieve a desired end, which makes actual moderation work harder. Kind of like a stricter version of the same logic as "we're not going to allow Helldumping any more."
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Jun 10, 2019 23:12
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Most moderation is a layered series of late oveereactions to past failures. If they're punting the fascists within a reasonable time frame then it comes down to attitude and seasoning.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:29
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I think we're getting lost because a fascist was told to gently caress off, but the issue isn't specifically fascism it's the type of moderation that values surface-level civility over pretty much anything else which has big weaknesses that lovely actors like to exploit - like being relatively fash-free is a really low bar a lot of places still don't meet but it's not moderation style that led to that it's a shift in culture and it doesn't mean their moderation doesn't encourage toxic discourse of the type that fash loves to exploitAlien Rope Burn posted:Most moderation is a layered series of late oveereactions to past failures. Also this applies everywhere, yeah
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Jun 11, 2019 00:14
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Darwinism posted:the issue isn't specifically fascism it's the type of moderation that values surface-level civility over pretty much anything else If you don't politely ask the guy not to _______________ and yell at him instead, you're really just as bad as he is. So maybe you could calmly report it through proper channels to the appropriate person. Oh that's the same guy? Well I'm sure we can all be civilised grown ups about it. I don't understand why you're getting so angry. If you keep raising your voice I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:58
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The fascist got perma'd, the person telling the fascist to gently caress off got told to simply report the fascist and not cuss them out next time. I, the enlightened leftist, see these punishments as exactly the same.
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Jun 11, 2019 01:04
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RPGnet's civility modding has certainly in the past led to some toxic posters (fash and just general poo poo) to linger and be garbage for a long time. That said, they've seemed to cut way back on their tolerance of any of the bullshit line-dancing on the rules that the relatively more subtle rightwingers there used to do. I still tend to think they give way too much benefit of the doubt to long term shitposters who keep it to passive-aggressive bullshit, but that's more on the non-political posting side.
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Jun 11, 2019 01:26
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TheArchimage posted:The fascist got perma'd, the person telling the fascist to gently caress off got told to simply report the fascist and not cuss them out next time. I, the enlightened leftist, see these punishments as exactly the same. it's more that 'we ban fascists but don't tell fascists to eat poo poo please' is kinda emblematic of the general weird style focusing on civility above all else. Like mentioned it leads to, in more tangible issues, stuff like 'you can't really talk about past White Wolf fuckups when talking about current White Wolf because they're technically different companies' and all. I don't think anyone's saying RPGnet sucks super bad or is secretly pro-fash or whatever, just kinda a weird relic of their anti-toxicity (a good thing) focus being taken to a weird level that can, if not fully stifle discussion, can make it into some kinda awkward thing.
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Jun 11, 2019 04:12
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You should be allowed to tell fascists directly to kill themselves without getting a warning.
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Jun 11, 2019 04:48
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Terrible Opinions posted:You should be allowed to tell fascists directly to kill themselves without getting a warning.
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Jun 11, 2019 05:19
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Zereth posted:I dunno, "they did it first" being acceptable isn't a great way to moderate It’s not because fascists told people to kill themselves previously, but rather because telling fascists to kill themselves is virtuous on its own merits regardless of precedent.
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Jun 11, 2019 05:24
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Subjunctive posted:It’s not because fascists told people to kill themselves previously, but rather because telling fascists to kill themselves is virtuous on its own merits regardless of precedent. 
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Jun 11, 2019 05:40
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Terrible Opinions posted:You should be allowed to tell fascists directly to kill themselves without getting a warning. Well now, seems like you and several people here want moderation to ignore rules and let you and your friends being assholes to people you don't particularly like and use the rules to their full effect when they react.
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Jun 11, 2019 14:03
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Plutonis posted:Well now, seems like you and several people here want moderation to ignore rules and let you and your friends being assholes to people you don't particularly like and use the rules to their full effect when they react. Plutonis.txt
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Jun 11, 2019 14:07
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Magnusth posted:Plutonis.txt Sometimes the former, never the latter!
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Jun 11, 2019 14:14
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Slimnoid posted:PC Show on E3 right now has notable scumbag Mike Mearls on stage to talk about Baldur's Gate 3. Yeah this made me not want to buy anything Larian puts out in the future.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:53
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm a big fan of The Piazza's "If a thread makes me throw up in my mouth a little it's moddable" policy. (It came up during the "Knights of the Scarlet Woman" fiasco on ENWorld.) It's been years since I posted there, so maybe it changed, but I remember basically everything constantly being "I'm not touching you" trolling where people tried to politeness-judo calling their posting nemesis an idiot as much as possible without slipping close enough they'd get banned, despite the fact that's what basically every contentious thread was. Desiden posted:RPGnet's civility modding has certainly in the past led to some toxic posters (fash and just general poo poo) to linger and be garbage for a long time. That said, they've seemed to cut way back on their tolerance of any of the bullshit line-dancing on the rules that the relatively more subtle rightwingers there used to do. I still tend to think they give way too much benefit of the doubt to long term shitposters who keep it to passive-aggressive bullshit, but that's more on the non-political posting side. Yeah, this was my experience exactly. If you were "Look, I'm just saying, it's a coincidence that black people are statistically worse at maths"-ing, that got shut down, but if you were just making GBS threads up the seventy-eigth million thread by coming in to geez-shucks-I-just-don't-understand-these-modern-RPGs-perhaps-we-can-go-through-everything-for-the-seventieth-time-while-I-overact-shock-at-how-terrible-they-clearly-are-ing then you could just do that for years and nothing would ever happen, because hey, you never said they were an idiot and their games were bad, you just took up most of the posts in the thread with crocodile-bewilderment at how incomprehensible and arcane their game and preferences were!
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Jun 11, 2019 20:52
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Plutonis posted:Well now, seems like you and several people here want moderation to ignore rules and let you and your friends being assholes to people you don't particularly like and use the rules to their full effect when they react.
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Jun 12, 2019 00:36
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Bill Webb of Frog God Games got drunk at PaizoCon 2017, which is apparently SOP for him, harassed a female guest and injured a con staff member who was trying to get him away from her.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:42
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MadScientistWorking posted:I thought Paizo did ban him because if not I have really choice words for them. Turns out he's friends with a neo-nazi promoter so its not exactly a situation I'm happy with. It'd possible I'm working from outdated information but I can't find any indication that he was banned from Paizocon. I do know that Steve Jackson Games refused to disentangle from Webb and Frog God for their reboot of The Fantasy Trip, the reaction to which dragged a lot of bad actors into the light again and made it clear that SJG is fine laying down with dogs. Who's his neo-Nazi friend?
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Jun 12, 2019 14:56
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Lemniscate Blue posted:It'd possible I'm working from outdated information but I can't find any indication that he was banned from Paizocon. I do know that Steve Jackson Games refused to disentangle from Webb and Frog God for their reboot of The Fantasy Trip, the reaction to which dragged a lot of bad actors into the light again and made it clear that SJG is fine laying down with dogs. Noted Herald of (Performative) Compassion Satine Phoenix is also running a game for FGG's new campaign setting as a way to push the Kickstarter, I believe it is. So that's nice. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 15:32
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spectralent posted:It's been years since I posted there, so maybe it changed, but I remember basically everything constantly being "I'm not touching you" trolling where people tried to politeness-judo calling their posting nemesis an idiot as much as possible without slipping close enough they'd get banned, despite the fact that's what basically every contentious thread was.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:37
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"Are abusers not also entitled to Compassion," asked the herald, not understanding what compassion was.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:41
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Lemniscate Blue posted:It'd possible I'm working from outdated information but I can't find any indication that he was banned from Paizocon. I do know that Steve Jackson Games refused to disentangle from Webb and Frog God for their reboot of The Fantasy Trip, the reaction to which dragged a lot of bad actors into the light again and made it clear that SJG is fine laying down with dogs.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:48
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MadScientistWorking posted:Tenkar who has repeatedly promoted Macris was at Frog God's both at Totalcon this year. Macris is a person who has a good chance of people who have never touched tabletop knowing who he is because of his racist, sexist, and nazi antics. Yeah, the Frog God people all hang out on Tenkar’s discord server now. It seems like there’s two big OSR discords going. Tenkar’s and then the really left-wing inclusive one run by Chris McDowall. I’m really liking the second one.
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Jun 12, 2019 16:53
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Arivia posted:Yeah, the Frog God people all hang out on Tenkar’s discord server now.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:25
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FordCQC posted:Yeah this made me not want to buy anything Larian puts out in the future. The odds are good that no one at Larian has any idea about Zak, or Mearls, or that whole disgusting mess. Letting them know on Twitter would be amusing though, since it might force them to acknowledge it and keep Mearls off of future stages, or even provoke his long-awaited response. Not super likely, I imagine, but you never know.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:48
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Larian was good enough to reply to comments and repaint the boobplate front cover of Divinity II during the Kickstarter process. Not quite what we're looking at here, but it's a candle in the dark.
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Jun 12, 2019 18:29
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Halloween Jack posted:I also haven't been there regularly for years, but that was the culture of the forum when I was 15 and I assume it hasn't changed much. I'm not sure what culture they'd even have left if it did. Here are a few examples of how the board's culture has dramatically changed over the years:  https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/ It's not perfect, heck there's probably things every member there wishes could be changed to their ideal moderation, but as far as the whole 'not touching you', gaslighting, sealioning, fash-supporting bullshit you get everywhere but trad games SA (And I'm only talking this thread, because holy gently caress there's a lot of homophonic and transphobic poo poo that's allowed to fly in other bits of SA) it's better than anywhere else. And largely the reason that stuff doesn't fly here is because it gets immediately called out by the users of, well, here. Personally I'd like to be more able to tell a fash-supporting fuckhead to gently caress off on rpg.net, but I understand they have those rules, so I just report and wait for them to be banned (and they are, with gleeful abandon now). As opposed to, say enworld where rape apologists and child abuse defenders get to post ad infinitum as long as they're never mean to anyone, or reddit where they thrive, or paizo's boards that the majority of posters were all okay with child abuse and sexual harassment or the actual fash rpg site where they're cheered on for those attitudes. There have definitely been missteps and overreactions and some people who got banned who could appeal and get back (i'm guessing here, I have no idea) but the forum culture is so dramatically different from even five years ago that it's more akin to here (SA-trad games) in terms of attitude to minorities and the fash albeit with more rules and less telling people to stop talking bullshit than anywhere else I read about pretendy fun time games. PST fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 22:06
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It's better isn't the same thing as good, and really people would probably bitch less about rpg.net if people didn't keep coming over here to defend them everytime they do something stupid.
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Jun 12, 2019 23:51
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PST posted:There have definitely been missteps and overreactions and some people who got banned who could appeal and get back (i'm guessing here, I have no idea) but the forum culture is so dramatically different from even five years ago that it's more akin to here (SA-trad games) in terms of attitude to minorities and the fash albeit with more rules and less telling people to stop talking bullshit than anywhere else I read about pretendy fun time games. My problem was basically never with it's atittude to minorities. My problem was with about 10-15 posters who were incredibly good at playing an annoying provocative gimmick designed to make other people ragequit threads before them so they could control discussions, who would never get sanctioned for it, because, hey, they weren't calling people a shithead, while other people just got random bans, sometimes from talking about entire topics, because they crossed invisible lines.
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Jun 13, 2019 00:10
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Zak S (The abusive, piece of poo poo wanker that he is who's a small-minded, lovely artist and general all around wanker) has announced that he's suing his ex-gf who credibly accused him of rape,with multiple supporters of his abusive behavior, and exposed the suspected history of him using her as a shield, and using her accounts to lie for him: https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1139017582109794305 Also he's threatening to sue anyone who continues to perpetuate the accusation that he sexually assaulted women and raped them. Because you shouldn't do that, or he'll sue every one of you... PST fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 05:06
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How deep are we supposed to believe his pockets are? It'd be enormously expensive to go after even a sizable fraction of the people who've repeated Mandy's information.
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Jun 13, 2019 07:23
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is there a legal defense fund?
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Jun 13, 2019 07:50
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It doesn't matter how rich he is, he'll never be able to keep a lawyer. The minute they try to give him good legal advice (don't talk about the case, don't harass people involved in the case, don't try to socratic method the judge) Zak is gonna ignore him and start filing motions to Let The Judge Die or whatever.
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Jun 13, 2019 09:12
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It's just another intimidation tactic. It's surprisingly expensive to defend a libel claim so he is no doubt hoping for a few settlements from people who want him to go away If there is a legal defence fund I have some money I would like to put into it.
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Jun 13, 2019 10:00
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"What do you mean I can't sue her to force her to resume loving me and being my token crippled goth girlfriend? Her continued defiance is hurting my brand, and thus me, monetarily."
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