(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Kobayashi posted:Bernie Sanders lumped Xi in with Putin and Bolsonaro in a speech today but China seems pretty cool so I guess I disagree? Idk. even if you think China in its current administration is Bad it’s not right wing like Putin or Bolsonaro are.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:28
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| # ? May 27, 2024 18:26 |
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Lightning Knight posted:even if you think China in its current administration is Bad it’s not right wing like Putin or Bolsonaro are. unless youre tibetan or uighur of course
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Jun 13, 2019 02:30
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Bro Dad posted:unless youre tibetan or uighur of course I mean, right wing isn’t a direct euphemism for “bad.”. it IS bad, but something can be bad and not right wing. Right wing means something specific.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:32
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R. Guyovich posted:there aren't a million crisis actors in the street but there are key nodes like media and ngos that can and frequently do influence opinion enough to get people in the streets Sure, state department foreign policy and historical actions can go gently caress themselves. I don’t think barristers doing a silent walk is related to NGO propaganda. Media nodes like Apple daily was one of the worst sensationalist papers when it came out but seriously compared to tai kung po it’s just a better paper. I really really want to hear some pro China or Pro HK government propaganda or initiatives. But have you seen them? And for fixing problems before 1997, abolishing the legco and replacing with a new one isn’t that great. Continuing functional constituencies where multiple one man companies can canvass votes for certain employment sectors is not convincing the public. How can this be argued for democracy and reform? it’s great that the establishment types insisted on removing first past the post voting because they wanted to be represented as a minority. Turns out they helped the democrats. Oh and the reason for Tung Chee wa, the first chief executive to claim his leg hurt and had to resign yet take a CPPCC post immediately is a joke.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:33
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, right wing isn’t a direct euphemism for “bad.”. it IS bad, but something can be bad and not right wing. Right wing means something specific. ongoing ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, and concentration camps are usually associated with right-wing regimes but okay
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Jun 13, 2019 02:38
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R. Guyovich posted:something that's interesting about that is in the mainland gdp growth is no longer the key metric for promotion and career advancement. employment, emissions and incomes are taking greater prominence in a "new normal" economy. these are good metrics, but government transparency, accountability, are thrown out the window. I love to see meritocracy, safe guards for public officials to not take bribes and other initiatives in the government. Maybe people are more on point in Beijing, but some regions like Dongbei are notoriously bad.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:39
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Kobayashi posted:Bernie Sanders lumped Xi in with Putin and Bolsonaro in a speech today but China seems pretty cool so I guess I disagree? Idk. USA is corporate dictatorship with two right wings what do you expect
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Jun 13, 2019 02:42
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caberham posted:these are good metrics, but government transparency, accountability, are thrown out the window. that's the whole point of the anti-corruption campaign though. many many people have talked about how they used to have big banquets, long luxurious trips, etc. and how those have been curtailed. campaign's far from over too. i think over 100,000 people were disciplined last year alone.
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Jun 13, 2019 02:46
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Kobayashi posted:Bernie Sanders lumped Xi in with Putin and Bolsonaro in a speech today but China seems pretty cool so I guess I disagree? Idk. i didnt like it either, but i was just glad he didnt include venezuela
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Jun 13, 2019 02:48
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Typo posted:maybe it's to treat everyone equally under chinese law? I mean obviously if everyone could be governed under the law of the Republic of China everything would be far better, but that's really beside the point at hand
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Jun 13, 2019 03:07
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R. Guyovich posted:that's the whole point of the anti-corruption campaign though. many many people have talked about how they used to have big banquets, long luxurious trips, etc. and how those have been curtailed. campaign's far from over too. i think over 100,000 people were disciplined last year alone. But have there been systemic changes? Is corruption studied, squashed and social policies changed? Is civil service pay still abysmal? There are many techniques and methods to deal with corruption. HK civil service and police used to be our cities finest. Even after the hand over there were great strides but cross border cooperation and the decline of the ICAC is a big contributor to the decline of talent. And that the civil service in HK have to be sycophants to whatever new mainland policy. Everything is just so opaque. instead of disciplining , why not arrest? With the tight media control and environment, it’s hard to develop public confidence.
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Jun 13, 2019 03:08
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I don't care about protesters being violent, but anyone waving a British flag with pride deserves to be tear gassed
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Jun 13, 2019 03:42
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Atrocious Joe posted:I don't care about protesters being violent, but anyone waving a British flag with pride deserves to be tear gassed especially when they are not british
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Jun 13, 2019 03:48
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Atrocious Joe posted:I don't care about protesters being violent, but anyone waving a British flag with pride deserves to be tear gassed 
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Jun 13, 2019 03:54
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:28 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jun 13, 2019 03:59
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Bro Dad posted:ongoing ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, and concentration camps are usually associated with right-wing regimes but okay Cultural genocide is an important aspect of global social revolution. Are you familiar with the concept of the "four olds" friend?
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Jun 13, 2019 04:11
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Bro Dad posted:ongoing ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, and concentration camps are usually associated with right-wing regimes but okay the evidence for these "camps" come from CIA fronts and a Brown Moses wannabe squinting at satellite photos
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Jun 13, 2019 04:34
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Legco announced meeting today cancelled but who knows, establishment have been in the building and the chair can announce anytime
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Jun 13, 2019 04:37
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Bro Dad posted:ongoing ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, and concentration camps are usually associated with right-wing regimes but okay the word you're looking for is authoritarianism, a government trait that straddles the political divide.
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Jun 13, 2019 04:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:the evidence for these "camps" come from CIA fronts and a Brown Moses wannabe squinting at satellite photos What? China has said multiple times that they have 're-education centers' for 'terrorists'. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/19/WS5c903e7ca3106c65c34ef4f8.html quote:The white paper said China has been active in implementing the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly concerning the United Nations Global Counterterrorism Strategy. China advocates comprehensive measures to address both the symptoms and the root causes so that there will be no room for terrorism to breed, it said.
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Jun 13, 2019 05:03
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caberham posted:these are good metrics, but government transparency, accountability, are thrown out the window. Maybe if the Hong Kong mayor is an appointed 50 year old Chinese, who has a chance to be the future Chinese president, he would actually work for the interest of HK people instead of the entranched HK elites? Also the HK government is too weak by design of the Brits and the HK robber Barrons. The CCP never wanted a weak administrative government. A lot of the HK problems are not from Beijing and millions of Hong Kongers think taking the piss on mainland some how will fix them.
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Jun 13, 2019 05:06
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Jun 13, 2019 07:59
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Grapplejack posted:What? China has said multiple times that they have 're-education centers' for 'terrorists'. An easy mistake to make, the government was officially denying the existence of the 're-education centers' less than a year ago.
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Jun 13, 2019 08:36
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I don't buy that the We Love The Brits stuff is more than a very vocal minority. it reminds me of the very small part of the iranian opposition that wants the shah back. Basically weird hopeless reactionaries trying to hook onto a popular movement.
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Jun 13, 2019 08:37
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:I don't buy that the We Love The Brits stuff is more than a very vocal minority. it reminds me of the very small part of the iranian opposition that wants the shah back. Basically weird hopeless reactionaries trying to hook onto a popular movement. pretty much. it’s also seen as a giant F U to china (and everyone else including themselves)
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Jun 13, 2019 08:38
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je1 healthcare posted:An easy mistake to make, the government was officially denying the existence of the 're-education centers' less than a year ago. no they weren't. the dispute was always the nature of the centers, not whether they exist.
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Jun 13, 2019 09:12
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R. Guyovich posted:no they weren't. the dispute was always the nature of the centers, not whether they exist. quote:At a hearing in Geneva on Monday, a 49-strong Chinese delegation met questions from the committee with flat contradiction. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/...7020180813&te=1
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Jun 13, 2019 09:21
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if you read the full statement rather than the one selectively pruned by the new york times, it's pretty obvious that official was rejecting the premise of the question. Slandering Xinjiang as 'no rights zone' against fact, Chinese official told UN panel quote:"There are no such things as 're-education centers' or 'counter-extremism training centers' in Xinjiang," the official said. and education as a component of anti-terrorism has been public policy for years in xinjiang, long before the anti-china propaganda push started in earnest last year. Islamic institute steps up training to fight extremism quote:By early March, Shanshan county, in the eastern Turpan prefecture, had run 14 sessions of closed training classes, with about 100 trainees for each session. Drive against terrorism in Xinjiang shows result quote:Shohrat said increasing employment in southern Xinjiang, which is relatively less developed and giving priority to education are the keys to ensure the region’s long-term stability. Kashgar finds success in crackdown on terror cells quote:"Besides cracking down on terrorist activities in accordance with the law, we have also realized the importance of changing people's minds about terrorism and religious extremism, which we didn't pay enough attention to before," Zhang said. Huocheng provides training for bilingual teachers quote:Huocheng county, in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region has held bilingual training sessions on ethnic unity on Jan 19, which saw more than 300 preschool bilingual teachers taking part.
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Jun 13, 2019 10:16
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My friend is Han and from Xinjiang, her friends work and family work in hospitals/schools/public official positions and she was the one telling me about camps for Uigjurs and how school teachers must take extra work and time to be a big brother and big sister for school kids. The camps aren’t only for uighurs and Han public officials can be sent into them as well. People come back out after a while, but their kids are looked after by social workers who pick up and drop them off school. Her old class mate friend met up with her in Shenzhen and felt shenzhen was free enough  Xinjiang went through some crazy poo poo and there is extra surveillance there.
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Jun 13, 2019 10:31
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R. Guyovich posted:if you read the full statement rather than the one selectively pruned by the new york times, it's pretty obvious that official was rejecting the premise of the question. in capitalist western countries, muslims are drawn to jihadist ideologies due to the misery inflicted upon them by the society they live in. how exactly do you think the motivations of uighurs differ from those of western muslims?
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Jun 13, 2019 10:33
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My friend is Han and from Xinjiang, her friends work and family work in hospitals/schools/public official positions and she was the one telling me about camps for Uigjurs and how school teachers must take extra work and time to be a big brother and big sister for school kids. The camps aren’t only for uighurs and Han public officials can be sent into them as well. People come back out after a while, but their kids are looked after by social workers who pick up and drop them off school. Her old class mate friend met up with her in Shenzhen and felt shenzhen was free enough Xinjiang went through some crazy poo poo and there is extra surveillance there.
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Jun 13, 2019 10:42
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Kurnugia posted:in capitalist western countries, muslims are drawn to jihadist ideologies due to the misery inflicted upon them by the society they live in. how exactly do you think the motivations of uighurs differ from those of western muslims? i don't think they differ much at all. crime is a social problem with economic causes and terrorism is no exception. what distinguishes china is they're fully aware of this and have been attempting to solve the issue through development and growth. you can see this in state media reports if you go back and check; obviously they're gonna put a positive slant on things but they also wouldn't take that line if it wasn't the line. the problem is this approach was reactive rather than proactive; it wasn't until the 2009 riots that the government started taking action. discontent was bubbling under the surface long before and if a "hearts and minds" type of campaign had been undertaken in the 90s or earlier along with targeted development policy there probably wouldn't be an extremism issue in the first place. again, going back and reading archives you'll see things like free 15-year education for all children in the area and comprehensive health care. this isn't something you do if the goal is cultural and ethnic eradication.
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Jun 13, 2019 11:02
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Yes there’s no possible way state mandated education could be a medium of cultural eradication.
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Jun 13, 2019 11:16
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LimburgLimbo posted:
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Jun 13, 2019 11:20
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LimburgLimbo posted:Yes there’s no possible way state mandated education could be a medium of cultural eradication. sure, it could. but this is what the ethnic policies are for, to safeguard against that. language preservation and preferential treatment would seem to be at cross-purposes with cultural genocide.
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Jun 13, 2019 11:31
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I haven't heard much about Chinese officials meddling with Russian Orthodox churches. I wonder if that is because they're just naturally less radicalizing than mosques, or because it would be geopolitically difficult to mess with the Russian Orthodox? It is a mystery.
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Jun 13, 2019 12:02
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ethnic policies huh... i don't actually care what you believe the camps are for, guyrovich. what bothers me is that you're not addressing the incentives for communist china to act like a colonial power in their relationship with uighurs, among others. just because china does occasionally act like a good guy, i really can't grasp how do you look at those satellite photos and everything else, and conclude that none of it seems suspicious at all in the context of what the party is saying is happening??
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Jun 13, 2019 12:05
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Kurnugia posted:i really can't grasp how do you look at those satellite photos and everything else, and conclude that none of it seems suspicious at all in the context of what the party is saying is happening?? I can pretend to be Oklahoma bellingcat, cut and paste a bunch of images of buildings in Oklahoma, and then get my pet nonprofits to tell everyone that the United States has imprisoned 1/3rd of the African American population
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Jun 13, 2019 12:38
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I can pretend to be Oklahoma bellingcat, cut and paste a bunch of images of buildings in Oklahoma, and then get my pet nonprofits to tell everyone that the United States has imprisoned 1/3rd of the African American population you should, be careful not to get shot
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Jun 13, 2019 12:45
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| # ? May 27, 2024 18:26 |
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R. Guyovich posted:if you read the full statement rather than the one selectively pruned by the new york times, it's pretty obvious that official was rejecting the premise of the question. Is it just me or is it weird that these are all China Daily links?
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Jun 13, 2019 12:57
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