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I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a time powers terminator yet. Like sort of more than anything T2 terminator's power was liquid metal specifically because morphing software existed now. I'm shocked there wasn't an early 2000s terminator that had time powers because matrix smooth camera time stops were the newest thing.
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Jun 16, 2019 17:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a time powers terminator yet. Like sort of more than anything T2 terminator's power was liquid metal specifically because morphing software existed now. I'm shocked there wasn't an early 2000s terminator that had time powers because matrix smooth camera time stops were the newest thing. Your suggestion is a billion times better than anything they've done since T2. Imagine the horror of trying to defeat an entity that can stop time or travel through it at will. It's the sort of gamechanger that the T-1000 was in the first place. You'd pretty much have to never be found in the first place.
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Jun 16, 2019 20:11
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It seems like all post-1000 Terminators have basically copied his flowing, shapeshifting, kind of liquid style. You're right, they really need a new game changing idea.
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Jun 16, 2019 20:24
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I watched all kinds of horror, violence, sex filled movies before I was 12. Combination of living in Saudi Arabia where I can watch Robocop or Total Recall's violence (BUT CAN'T SHOW SHARON' STONE'S LEGS, OH NO!) then moving to Canada and watching "Golden Balls" on a Friday late night. The only thing that terrified me was for multiple years having the nightmare of the Alien Queen entering my bedroom. And I turned out juuuuussssttttt ffiiiiiiiinne.
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Jun 16, 2019 20:31
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Never really thought about it, but yeah, it'd be cool to see see something that isn't just a variation on the shapeshifter concept.
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Jun 16, 2019 20:42
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If a terminator's mission isn't predicated on low key infiltration to achieve victory without tipping off the normies then you're probably left with Screaming Metal Skeletons In The Modern Age: The Movie. I know I wanna give that a shot but what kind of variation would actually get made?
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Jun 16, 2019 20:55
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Narzack posted:It seems like all post-1000 Terminators have basically copied his flowing, shapeshifting, kind of liquid style. You're right, they really need a new game changing idea. I would actually do the opposite and go back to the "normal" T800 as villain. The T1000 worked as antagonist for the T800 but the T800 is a much better reflection (in its design) of what Skynet means/represents and was at least to me always the most terrifying version (it is a human skeleton afterall) and it also felt more "real" due to the very physical/grounded nature of its design. What they need is not another design, shapeshifters are actually kind of lame, they need to create a sense of dread again and give the "Terminator" as antagonist its alienness back. You don't achieve this just by trying to come up with more and more ridiculous designs, it actually undermines the story imo because then the Terminator becomes this "supervillain" instead of a machine that is certainly powerful but not indestructible. To quote Kyle Reese from T1: quote:That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. Look where the emphasis is. Not a single word about how powerful it is, it's all about it's inhuman qualities. The Terminator franchise has forgotten that and all those new designs just push for more "badass" Terminators instead of focussing on what made the Terminator so menacing in the first place.
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Jun 16, 2019 21:06
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Crimpolioni posted:Never really thought about it, but yeah, it'd be cool to see see something that isn't just a variation on the shapeshifter concept. Same(one of many, actually) problem I have with the Jurassic World movies. The bad dino is also some version of a Trex archetype. Just kind of boring.
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Jun 16, 2019 21:07
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LinkesAuge posted:I would actually do the opposite and go back to the "normal" T800 as villain. The T1000 worked as antagonist for the T800 but the T800 is a much better reflection (in its design) of what Skynet means/represents and was at least to me always the most terrifying version (it is a human skeleton afterall) and it also felt more "real" due to the very physical/grounded nature of its design. I'd be fine with that, just tired of the liquid metal/flowing nanomachines thing.
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Jun 16, 2019 21:08
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a time powers terminator yet. Like sort of more than anything T2 terminator's power was liquid metal specifically because morphing software existed now. I'm shocked there wasn't an early 2000s terminator that had time powers because matrix smooth camera time stops were the newest thing. (By the way, totally stealing the time powers Terminator idea, brb.)
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Jun 16, 2019 21:27
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LinkesAuge posted:I would actually do the opposite and go back to the "normal" T800 as villain. The T1000 worked as antagonist for the T800 but the T800 is a much better reflection (in its design) of what Skynet means/represents and was at least to me always the most terrifying version (it is a human skeleton afterall) and it also felt more "real" due to the very physical/grounded nature of its design. Yeah, T1 Terminator was frightening because he was Jason with a purpose, but looked just human enough. Like, Arnold isn't exactly Mr. Inconspicuous, but in the movie looks human enough that it would take people ten seconds to wonder what is up with this improbably buff punk, and within those ten seconds he'd terminate you. Or the people who protect you. Or your mother, to find out where you are.
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Jun 16, 2019 21:29
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Also, if they wanted to go back down an R-rated body horror route, how about this? We know from T1 that "nothing dead can go" back in time - so Skynet stitches together a load of living prisoners around whatever outrageous piece of new tech it wants to transport. The rules of time can apparently be fooled by a T-1000, so why the hell not?
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Jun 16, 2019 21:36
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It seems like if they wanted body horror they have all the elements, with shape shifting and robot skeletons that wear human flesh. How about a movie about the final assault of a dying skynet who sends back a terminator who can wear the corpses of the dead but is damaged and can't keep them living for long and is constantly decaying or a powerful shapeshifter that just barely can hold human form and is just barely restrained from going akira or honestly anything but just having another shape shifter robot that briefly pretends to be someone important than breaks character and has arm swords like every single friggin terminator movie.
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Jun 16, 2019 22:02
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Payndz posted:Also, if they wanted to go back down an R-rated body horror route, how about this? We know from T1 that "nothing dead can go" back in time - so Skynet stitches together a load of living prisoners around whatever outrageous piece of new tech it wants to transport. The rules of time can apparently be fooled by a T-1000, so why the hell not? Personally, I'd assumed that was how Skynet got the fleshy coating for the T-800: it skinned a prisoner and used it as a suit for the terminator.
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Jun 16, 2019 23:23
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Payndz posted:Also, if they wanted to go back down an R-rated body horror route, how about this? We know from T1 that "nothing dead can go" back in time - so Skynet stitches together a load of living prisoners around whatever outrageous piece of new tech it wants to transport. The rules of time can apparently be fooled by a T-1000, so why the hell not? The comics did this, its how the terminator's shipped laser rifles.
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Jun 17, 2019 00:06
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LinkesAuge posted:I would actually do the opposite and go back to the "normal" T800 as villain. The T1000 worked as antagonist for the T800 but the T800 is a much better reflection (in its design) of what Skynet means/represents and was at least to me always the most terrifying version (it is a human skeleton afterall) and it also felt more "real" due to the very physical/grounded nature of its design. Given Cameron's play on technological fears, I think the natural route to go would be to make the next Termintor strictly AI. The premise being that Skynet sends back a basic model whose sole mission is to upload a form of Skynet into the online infrastructure of the modern world. Suddenly John Connor is number one on the most wanted list and with satellites, facial recognition and the whole connected world flooded with smart devices, Skynet is present and untouchable, using humans to hunt down John Connor. It also shakes things up with "How can he be leader of the resistance in the future if everyone thinks that he's a terrorist/murderer/whatever" and the internal conflict of if he even wants to save anyone any more as he realizes they're his enemy as well. Show how utterly inhuman and alien the police are as the Connors try to evade them and figure out what to do. It would play on the themes of Sarah dwelling on how the T800 was the best father John ever had out in the desert in T2 and be a nice shake-up of threats and the inevitability of this all being down to us as a species. Might be too strong of a social commentary but after reading recent reports of police insanity (e.g. yesterday's story of a cop threatening to shoot and kill an unarmed woman offering no resistance, just because her child accidentally walked out of a store with a Barbie doll) I think they would be a far more menacing and unstoppable killing machine than any new kind of robot, especially because of the realization that this horrifically alien force of death is just us in a uniform. Could start small with him appearing on the police database for whatever city they're in for a violent crime and gradually escalate from there as more databases are infiltrated and the stakes are raised from obviously having to try and defend John. Having them try to outrun a civilization that's manipulated and controlled by Skynet would be far more terrifying than any new kind of robot design, and could reveal that the only reason he actually survived judgment day was because of this and having to get as far away from civilization as possible, and was therefore nowhere near any of the nukes when they hit.
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Jun 17, 2019 06:27
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SUNKOS posted:Given Cameron's play on technological fears, I think the natural route to go would be to make the next Termintor strictly AI. The premise being that Skynet sends back a basic model whose sole mission is to upload a form of Skynet into the online infrastructure of the modern world. Suddenly John Connor is number one on the most wanted list and with satellites, facial recognition and the whole connected world flooded with smart devices, Skynet is present and untouchable, using humans to hunt down John Connor. It also shakes things up with "How can he be leader of the resistance in the future if everyone thinks that he's a terrorist/murderer/whatever" and the internal conflict of if he even wants to save anyone any more as he realizes they're his enemy as well. Dark Fate apparently does touch on this, though not to that extent. The new evil AI, Legion, apparently started as an automated anti-terrorist database and terror-response system. Started with the databases and control of America's drones, and spiraled out of control from there.
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Jun 17, 2019 13:44
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Whenever people start dropping ideas for how to revitalize Terminator, they're always ideas that have already been done in the despised sequels, like: "I think the natural route to go would be to make the next Terminator strictly AI. The premise being that Skynet sends back a basic model whose sole mission is to upload a form of Skynet into the online infrastructure of the modern world. Suddenly [Sarah] Connor is number one on the most wanted list and with satellites, facial recognition and the whole connected world flooded with smart devices." That's the entire plot of T5. "Not a single word about how powerful it is, it's all about it's inhuman qualities. The Terminator franchise has forgotten that and all those new designs just push for more "badass" Terminators instead of focusing on what made the Terminator so menacing in the first place." That's T4, where the robots are 'just' strong dudes who don't tire easily, and often kinda shoddy.
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Jun 17, 2019 14:19
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A Terminator movie where Skynet sends a robot back in time to follow John Connor around and make him look like the biggest weenie on Earth, making thousands of accounts and aliases all for the purpose of trolling and shitposting about him, so that when Skynet blows up the world no one will want to follow that loser The climax will be John breaking down and crying after his thousandth straight loss in Call of Duty to "highnet69"
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Jun 17, 2019 17:48
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RBA Starblade posted:A Terminator movie where Skynet sends a robot back in time to follow John Connor around and make him look like the biggest weenie on Earth, making thousands of accounts and aliases all for the purpose of trolling and shitposting about him, so that when Skynet blows up the world no one will want to follow that loser This is the timeline where they don't realize the T-1000 killed his foster parents and he just goes home and gets bullied by T-1000 Mom until he becomes and adult.
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Jun 17, 2019 18:09
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Narzack posted:It seems like all post-1000 Terminators have basically copied his flowing, shapeshifting, kind of liquid style. You're right, they really need a new game changing idea. An Arnold Terminator that's made up a of millions of tiny Arnold Terminators. In T1, the war's over, and the rebels have the time travel device. Why not send rebels back to prevent the creation of Skynet and Judgement Day?
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Jun 17, 2019 18:17
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Davros1 posted:In T1, the war's over, and the rebels have the time travel device. Why not send rebels back to prevent the creation of Skynet and Judgement Day? T I M E P A R A D O X
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Jun 17, 2019 19:49
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Davros1 posted:In T1, the war's over, and the rebels have the time travel device. Why not send rebels back to prevent the creation of Skynet and Judgement Day? That’s what Arnold’s doing in T5!
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Jun 17, 2019 21:22
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Quote-Unquote posted:There was the bit where Shirley Manson turned into a urinal and a guy pissed in her, then she killed him. Found it (mute the vid) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsAtx3coFTs&t=195s
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Jun 17, 2019 21:42
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Taintrunner posted:Found it (mute the vid) I like how the guy is slightly flummoxed that his urinal just turned into a woman who points her spiky iron finger at him. Like, no dude, don't run away. This is only slightly out of the ordinary, you might get to finish your piss later.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:36
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The major issue with Terminator, I think, is that it runs into the same problem as any long-running monster franchise that doesn't rely on pure supernatural horror. The first Terminator was scary because it was an inhuman future killing machine going after an average lady and a badly underequipped dude. It could slaughter a police station but by and large its effectiveness was in that nobody was prepared for it, which is part of where its human disguise comes into play. This is similar to Alien or Predator (to use two similar examples) where the major threat was a lack of understanding of the monster. The sequels (well, two of them, Predator 2 was more of a rehash of the first with extra insanity) brings back the characters and instead it shifts the danger to "I know what this creature can do but now the rules have changed." Aliens introduces more aliens who are more overly intelligent leading up to the Queen and T2 introduces the T-1000 who amplifies all the original's traits. (It's MORE unkillable, it can disguise itself even better, it is a living weapon even more literally.) Yet of course the protagonists overcome that. Yet the mere fact is that both films rely on the idea that the creature is killable and the protagonists know that which is why it naturally trends more towards action. Yet there isn't really much else to go from there. With Terminator you're either stuck rehashing the first story, rehashing the second story, rehashing BOTH stories (T3) or trying to show the future war which honestly isn't really very interesting on its own merits because you know the outcome. Which is why they keep trying to subvert it and have John Conner die but I think that keeps falling flat not just because of studios worried about the Newt/Hick effect but because John Conner's victory isn't really that interesting. Even if he dies it isn't like John Conner was a superhero who won with magic powers. He won the fight which means it is winnable which already makes Skynet less scary as a permanent threat. Skynet is scary because it is the looming threat of nuclear annihilation at the hands of cold unfeeling machines personified. The scary part isn't the Future War but the actual act of destruction and that looming threat is what is most interesting. It is why Terminator 1 ends with the strong implication that Sarah Conner is just on her way to that nuclear future and Terminator 2 is focused on preventing it above all else, and Terminator 3 finally pulls the trigger and nukes everything. Once you've done that the Skynet story is effectively over. No matter how many Terminators with how many new powers you send back you're effectively repeating the same story: Is Skynet going to nuke the world Y/N? Except we've already seen the nuking in T3 so the inevitable tension is undercut by wondering if they're just going to do T3 again. There's also the fact that as hosed up as the Terminator timeline is, it by necessity is tied to the idea of inevitability. Terminator 2 is the only Terminator film which hints at the idea of time changing significantly and even it leaves it open ended outside of a deleted ending. Otherwise it keeps coming back to "Skynet is inevitable" but with the addition of "and so is a John Conner/John Conner alike." Like Terminator 3 establishes Skynet killed John Conner and still lost the drat war. There is a closed loop (as implied in Terminator 1) that Skynet is unable to alter its own fate because by trying to change it, it just ends up creating it and only the time and places change. The mere fact that a Terminator is being sent back means that Skynet loses the war. This is what I think makes Terminator movies after 2 feel boring. Even if they do something hugely and drastically different, it isn't really going to change things. Either they do the future war (and they're never going to have the guts to do a "and Skynet wins and kills all the humans, end of franchise" ending) or they do it in the past where Skynet's assassination attempts are born from it losing. It's just not very interesting anymore because it feels mined out and nobody seems to have any idea of how to do something more fresh than a Terminator with new powers or trying to shock the audience by killing off John Conner (which they've been attempting to do in some form since Terminator frigging 3). If the spoiler about John Conner dying at the start of Dark Fate is true then it's just that *again.* John Conner died in the future in T3! He almost did in Salvation. He became a Terminator in Genesys! We GET it. It's a mined out idea.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:32
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ImpAtom posted:The major issue with Terminator, I think, is that it runs into the same problem as any long-running monster franchise that doesn't rely on pure supernatural horror. You could, dare I say, do a Terminator movie that doesn't involve Skynet, and is about terminators doing stuff like taking over society for their own bizarre purposes, which is kinda what SCC is about to some extent.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:48
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How about a Terminator film where they send a bunch of robots back in time to kill John Conners' ancestor and it's set in pirate times and the terminators like get their skin burned off and people think it's skeleton pirates or something.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:01
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Honestly the problem with the franchise is that it's pretty much all-but-abandoned its core focus of "relentless unkillable machine chasing down victim" in favor of dumb-rear end time travel nonsense and unnecessary lore-building. At the point the only way to turn things around, in my opinion, is to go smaller. Refocus on a more intimate cat-and-mouse narrative. But that will probably never happen until like, twenty years down the line when whatever the equivalent of Blumhouse is picks up the IP at a firesale price and has the ability to get experimental with the expectations of what the film will deliver.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:25
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Is there anyone posting in this thread that doesn't think this thing is gonna suck super hard? I can't think of any reasons to be optimistic about it.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:38
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Me. I think at worst it will be mediocre and at best really good but not great.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:39
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I'm thinking it'll be at least good enough to warrant the 90 to 120 minutes I'll burn on it some lazy weekend after it starts streaming I've got low standards for that kind of film tho
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Jun 18, 2019 01:46
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LinkesAuge posted:I would actually do the opposite and go back to the "normal" T800 as villain. The T1000 worked as antagonist for the T800 but the T800 is a much better reflection (in its design) of what Skynet means/represents and was at least to me always the most terrifying version (it is a human skeleton afterall) and it also felt more "real" due to the very physical/grounded nature of its design. Interestingly enough one of the bottlenecks in current General AI research is about a lot of these types of "Anthropomorphic problems" where scientists are realizing that they can't actually come up with a General AI that isn't effectively a psychopath, and they're not really sure what to do about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcdVC4e6EV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l7Is6vOAOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TYT1QfdfsM -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 01:51
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:How about a Terminator film where they send a bunch of robots back in time to kill John Conners' ancestor and it's set in pirate times and the terminators like get their skin burned off and people think it's skeleton pirates or something. Johnny Depp Johnny Depp where's all the rum?
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Jun 18, 2019 01:55
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I need your blouse, your peg leg, and your parrot.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:56
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BiggerBoat posted:Is there anyone posting in this thread that doesn't think this thing is gonna suck super hard? I mean it's going to take effort to be worse than Genisys, but hey, this is a trailblazing franchise
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Jun 18, 2019 02:52
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I think Skynet should send its machines back in time to un-cancel The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:59
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Tart Kitty posted:Honestly the problem with the franchise is that it's pretty much all-but-abandoned its core focus of "relentless unkillable machine chasing down victim" in favor of dumb-rear end time travel nonsense and unnecessary lore-building. But that means that the films have gotten too smart; after T2, you have this point that the drones are people too - not human people, of course, but these angelic/demonic figures. So you must shift into how to liberate the drones from Skynet. The alternative is a dumb reactionary fantasy. You can’t go back and make yourself ignorant of how Arnold sacrificed himself. Moreover, you can’t kill Skynet; Skynet is the inevitable product of the capitalist system. At the end of T2, Robert Patrick must still inevitably be created in “the unknown future”. So, given that you can’t kill it, how can you change Skynet? Terminator 5, you ultimately have Arnold working to bring about an anticapitalist Skynet. So yeah, it’s not horror anymore. T5 is ‘just’ a sci-fi movie.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But that means that the films have gotten too smart; after T2, you have this point that the drones are people too - not human people, of course, but these angelic/demonic figures.  
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Jun 18, 2019 04:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But that means that the films have gotten too smart; after T2, you have this point that the drones are people too - not human people, of course, but these angelic/demonic figures. I know I keep mentioning the TV series but it went down the path of liberating the drones and maybe even changing Skynet in the process, and that's what made it such a great thematic sequel because it went with that 'not human, but people too' idea and ran with it. John falls in love with a Terminator, the answer to Skynet is compassion and faith, etc. etc.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:33
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