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Tighclops posted:Please tell me that Kiefer isn't a chud He's far from a chud but regardless of his politics he is a serial drunk driver so a pretty garbage guy overall.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:06
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So this week there's a "Green New Deal W/Leap" event here featuring speakers such as D. Suzuki. Going to try and get the mic at some point, here's what I've got for a hardball: "We've heard a considerable discussion surrounding emissions, paths to reduce emissions while maintaining a growing "green" economy, but not a whole lot about how to reduce the impact of our heavily resource-extraction based economy / industrial civilization and the ecological footprint from it. Or how a growing economy is even possible in this context unless we continue to externalize the environmental cost of our actions. With the IPBES summary making it clear that our biodiversity is at risk of collapse, how is an emissions-focused green new deal intended to address this greater crisis? So I guess my questions is, if we focus solely on reducing emissions and improving things such as urban transit density while still clearcutting our remaining old-growth and shipping the raw logs abroad, or signing off on wide-scale fracking & mining initiatives in the Stikine, or building the continents largest LNG export facility - are we achieving anything other than placating woke folk in the cities? And if we make the hard choices necessary to actually transition to an environmentally sustainable future in BC, what does that look like for the rural bulk of the province - which has little economic foundation beyond resource extraction? Thank you." Thoughts on how I can tighten this up to really frost the room as hard as I can? Rime fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 20:21
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Pleads posted:Scheer's there and on CBC right now but he's such a loving amorphous white nobody that I don't think people realize it Granted I don't think Scheer (or Dougie) have any place at Pride, but I can't help but feel like there's a real lovely juxtaposition of going to a parade for a sports team winning and saying you don't feel the need to go to (/support) Pride.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:31
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https://twitter.com/globalnews/status/1140703875667652608 gee whiz, ya hate to see it.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:Nah Keifer was just calling out the conservatives tge other day for invoking Tommy Douglas so it seems kind of short sighted for the NDP to immediately then around and do the same thing. Difference being Tommy Douglas was first leader of the NDP, father of universal medicare, and that the current "head-to-toe" universal healthcare platform is a continuation of what Douglas fought for. It's not at all like Dug Ford and his greedy friends.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:52
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The Berzerker posted:https://twitter.com/globalnews/status/1140703875667652608 i was cheering for 'dooooooooooooo-ug'
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Jun 17, 2019 20:54
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There has been a shooting at the parade
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Jun 17, 2019 20:57
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Rime posted:So this week there's a "Green New Deal W/Leap" event here featuring speakers such as D. Suzuki. Going to try and get the mic at some point, here's what I've got for a hardball: A better hardball would be to ask why they aren't explicitly critical of capitalism. Like, "Capitalism is an economic system that is dependent on infinite growth through endless exploitation. Not only that, it concentrates power to an elite who are using their influence to prevent any meaningful progress. This makes capitalism incompatible with the major tenets of both Leap and Green New Deal. Why aren't you boldly confronting capitalism when it is clearly the biggest obstacle?" But I forgot you're actually a liberal so maybe not.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:59
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Rime posted:Thoughts on how I can tighten this up to really frost the room as hard as I can? The question is really good but I'd avoid the "placating woke folk in the cities" phrasing, there's better ways to say that without it seeming like you're just dunking on people instead of genuinely asking a question.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:03
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bunnyofdoom posted:There has been a shooting at the parade Hopefully no one actually got hurt. Or that it was just someone freaking out thinking they saw a gun. Doesnt appear any injuries so far. https://twitter.com/erinmnicks/status/1140711605472243722
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Jun 17, 2019 21:06
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zapplez posted:Hopefully no one actually got hurt. Or that it was just someone freaking out thinking they saw a gun. Doesnt appear any injuries so far. TPS says one victim, a woman. https://twitter.com/TPSOperations/status/1140709828450508800
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Jun 17, 2019 21:08
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Rime posted:So this week there's a "Green New Deal W/Leap" event here featuring speakers such as D. Suzuki. Going to try and get the mic at some point, here's what I've got for a hardball: Also this doesn't really make sense at all in the context of Leap and GND. like, 50% of their focus is on respecting the rights of indigenous people. Indigenous people happen to be the most militant activisits against those projects you mentioned.... So you sound clueless and trying to gotchya people who are doing a lot more than you are.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:14
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I helped facilitate one of the GND town halls. And if anything, it was a great way to mobilize people. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to achieve, since the results of the Town Halls are ideologically all over the map. There's no way you can take the results of these townhalls and create something coherent. But I doubt that's even their intention. Having A LOT of people get together to brainstorm about climate change is a great strategy to mobilize people. Hopefully they can use this energy into something productive, hopefully something anti-capitalist.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:27
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https://twitter.com/TPSOperations/status/1140716091129442305
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Jun 17, 2019 21:30
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Kindest Forums User posted:I helped facilitate one of the GND town halls. And if anything, it was a great way to mobilize people. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to achieve, since the results of the Town Halls are ideologically all over the map. There's no way you can take the results of these townhalls and create something coherent. But I doubt that's even their intention. Having A LOT of people get together to brainstorm about climate change is a great strategy to mobilize people. Hopefully they can use this energy into something productive, hopefully something anti-capitalist. Rime's question seems quite appropriate for that kind of venue? I don't think the most effective way to advocate for socialism to to relentlessly give the same stump speech about how everything comes back to capitalism. Sometimes, frustrating though it may be, you need to give people the intellectual tools to reach that conclusion themselves and hope for the best.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:31
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Rime posted:So this week there's a "Green New Deal W/Leap" event here featuring speakers such as D. Suzuki. Going to try and get the mic at some point, here's what I've got for a hardball: Here's the same question with some minor tweaks and 25% fewer words. My biggest suggestion would be trying to move all your questions to the end, because otherwise it can be a bit hard to follow your train of thought. As things stand I think you probably won't get a decent answer to all your questions so you might want to decide which one you'll prioritize and cut the others : We've heard a lot about reducing emissions while still growing a "green" economy, but we haven't talked enough about the ecological footprint of our resource-extraction economy and industrial civilization. We need to ask if it is even possible to continue growing without externalizing the environmental cost of our actions. If we focus on reducing emissions, better transit and increased urban density while still clearcutting our remaining old-growth and shipping the raw logs abroad, or signing off on wide-scale fracking and mining initiatives, or building the continent's largest LNG export facility, then our efforts will be self defeating. On the other hand, if we make the hard chocies necessary to transition to a sustainable future in BC then what will happen to the bulk of the province that relies on the resource extraction economy? With the IPBES summary making it clear that our biodiversity is at risk of collapse, how will an emissions-focused green new deal address this greater crisis?
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Jun 17, 2019 21:38
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Helsing posted:Rime's question seems quite appropriate for that kind of venue? I don't think the most effective way to advocate for socialism to to relentlessly give the same stump speech about how everything comes back to capitalism. Sometimes, frustrating though it may be, you need to give people the intellectual tools to reach that conclusion themselves and hope for the best. At least at my town hall, pretty much everything Rime said was covered multiple times: Stopping fossil fuel production and harmful industrial activity and transition to green jobs. Even the biodiversity was mentioned, and this was just at my table.... This is pretty much consensus at this point. It sounds like Rime wants to confront Suzuki and the GND. So maybe he can do something better than"hey, what are we gonna do about jobs and biodiversity"
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Jun 17, 2019 21:44
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My experience with the GND concept, Canadian and American, is that it seeks to continue business as usual industrial civilization by pivoting to "green" initiatives with an emphasis on carbon emissions as a primary metric of success. Indeed, one of the underlying talking points is how all these "green" initiatives will boost economic productivity and growth cycles which are currently stagnating. More money for everyone, so that they can buy poo poo. Green poo poo, like EV's, the environmental cost of which we will entirely ignore. When in reality business as usual, except green means we all die because it does nothing to address the rampant consumption which underpins the entire IPBES summary. So yes, you are correct, my goal here is largely to pay $15 to dunk on Suzuki (whom I despise) while pointing out that the GND achieves nothing, that it is a gargantuan greenwashing initiative by liberal capitalism. That re-wording is legit, Helsing, I am not practised at being succinct.
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Jun 17, 2019 22:15
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Maybe you could also mention the Guardian's report today on how like 90% of our recycling just gets landfilled or incinerated but it happens in developing countries so we pretend it isn't real, that seems to be getting a decent amount of traction right now. I think it's a perfect example of greenwashing externalizing environmental costs so we can fool ourselves into thinking we're making a difference when really we aren't.
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Jun 17, 2019 22:46
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https://twitter.com/zachhajas/status/1140702948294569992?s=21
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Jun 17, 2019 22:59
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They really wanted to cut the booing short by announcing the next guest real quick.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:04
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Arcsquad12 posted:They really wanted to cut the booing short by announcing the next guest real quick. Doug Ford, the Apple monitor stand of Ontario
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Jun 17, 2019 23:10
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I was saying ”boo-uggs"
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Jun 18, 2019 00:03
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Syfe posted:The people who sign up to take part and wear banana costumes will be paid $135 for the six hours they'll be out there, plus $20 for parking, or $120 for the half a dozen people dressed in branded yellow T-shirts and black shorts. From last page but I think I'm coming more and more onboard with Postess' shtick of of Trudeau best Conservative PM thing. What the gently caress are these people getting still so worked up about that they think Trudeau is still loving them over on? We nationalized the loving pipeline expansion. Every single announcement about anything O&G related from the feds is gently caress YEAH ROLL COAL. The hell do these people need to be satisfied?? Like plausibly in this timeline we might be going to see military APCs running over over protestors in the BC woods. Will that be enough? Or will Trudeau still be a soy boy for not authorizing the use of mounted guns on said APCs? The government is bending over backwards for these idiots and it's still never enough apparently.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:09
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The Butcher posted:From last page but I think I'm coming more and more onboard with Postess' shtick of of Trudeau best Conservative PM thing. They've been told to be mad so they are mad. Doesn't have anything to do with reality. Even if the CPC get in they'll be mad at something else (immigrants, green peace, etc). The right has effectively weaponized the 40 and over's impotent rage..
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Jun 18, 2019 00:29
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Kindest Forums User posted:At least at my town hall, pretty much everything Rime said was covered multiple times: So he is less asking a gotcha question and asking a question they have an answer for... I look forward to hearing some specifics about the green jobs for Terrace.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:48
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There are plenty under 30 who have been indoctrinated into this warped mindset from birth and refuse to challenge themselves with critical thinking. I posted some screencaps over in one of the climate threads a week or two back. Ideology does not descriminate by age.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:50
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Helsing posted:The American military literally sent a group of officials to the studio making 24 and begged them to tone down all the torture scenes because it was directly influencing American soldiers and causing them to commit atrocities in Iraq. Justice_Scalia.txt
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Jun 18, 2019 01:10
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apatheticman posted:They've been told to be mad so they are mad. Doesn't have anything to do with reality. Even if the CPC get in they'll be mad at something else (immigrants, green peace, etc). Yeah I constantly hear people here in Alberta who are excited about Kenney getting elected because at least he'll stand up and fight for Alberta. But fight for what? Unclear. And against who? The Federal government who bought a pipeline for us, apparently.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:14
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Arcsquad12 posted:They really wanted to cut the booing short by announcing the next guest real quick. yeah and those guests were the rogers and bell ceos and they got like no boos at all. this fuckin country 2 million people for a parade for a sports victory and we cant even general strike
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Jun 18, 2019 01:36
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The Butcher posted:The hell do these people need to be satisfied??
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Jun 18, 2019 01:43
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I'm just hard pressed to imagine any greater level of "cutting red tape" than "nvm, here's a couple billion, you guys go distribute a bonus to the shareholders and we will sort this out later in the courts".
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Jun 18, 2019 01:55
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Mr. Apollo posted:i deal with a lot of people in the oil and gas sector and when you press them on why a PC government will be better it usually comes down to something like “A PC government will do things better”. There’s never and real specifics just stuff like “cutting taxes and reducing red tape” or “standing up for Canadian oil and gas”. It’s just purely “I want my team to win” Ran into one a couple weeks back. One quote that stood out: "Whenever they are hiring they're only looking for women or Muslims to fill their quota for diversity." 
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Jun 18, 2019 02:02
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The Butcher posted:I'm just hard pressed to imagine any greater level of "cutting red tape" than "nvm, here's a couple billion, you guys go distribute a bonus to the shareholders and we will sort this out later in the courts".
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Jun 18, 2019 02:41
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Ah just looked it up again, your usual quarterly payout was $0.1625 per share. Price per share was about $46 bucks before the split. After the government bailout, a special one time payout of $11.4 per share. So assuming a $10k investment, $2,478.26 $100k investment, $24,782.60 Decent. And basically a straight transfer from everyone in Canada to KML stockholders, vast majority of them being Americans. For a thing that: A) Might not exist. B) Might exist but never make any money. C) Might not exist or make any money, but WILL get get people killed for no reason.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:42
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Wistful of Dollars posted:I was saying ”boo-uggs" https://twitter.com/EdtheSock/status/1140706128373911557?s=19
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Jun 18, 2019 02:53
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holy crap, Ed the Sock still exists?
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Jun 18, 2019 03:03
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Rime posted:My experience with the GND concept, Canadian and American, is that it seeks to continue business as usual industrial civilization by pivoting to "green" initiatives with an emphasis on carbon emissions as a primary metric of success. Indeed, one of the underlying talking points is how all these "green" initiatives will boost economic productivity and growth cycles which are currently stagnating. More money for everyone, so that they can buy poo poo. Green poo poo, like EV's, the environmental cost of which we will entirely ignore. https://act.greennewdealcanada.ca/the-text/ And they literally reference biodiversity in their fundamental principles! They only have two principles! How did you miss it!? •It must meet the demands of Indigenous knowledge and science and cut Canada’s emissions in half in 11 years while protecting cultural and biological diversity. •It must leave no one behind and build a better present and future for all of us. I don't like Suzuki either, and if I was in your position , I'd be down for dunking too. But your strategy is way off. Like I said, you're question isn't going to blow anyone away, because it's something that's being discussed regularly. A lot of people attending these Town Halls aren't exactly liberals either, we had a lot of activists/former activists attend ours. You're preaching to the choir. But capitalism is still rarely brought up. Which is dumb. Everyone keeps avoiding. loving bring that poo poo up. Ask them if they think capitalism is compatible with climate change action. Ask them how they can prevent this movement from being co-opted capitalists vampires. Dooooo itttttt
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Jun 18, 2019 03:11
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Entropic posted:holy crap, Ed the Sock still exists? the sock of Theseus.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:22
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If yer plan to avert a climate crisis begins with implementing UNDRIP, FPIC, and the 94 Calls to Action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it sounds like maybe the climate crisis isn't really that bad
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Jun 18, 2019 03:30
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