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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Maybe Cao Cao should've abdicated to the rightful heir of Han then Why should he when the Han had clearly lost the mandate of heaven?
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Jun 18, 2019 00:04
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Maybe Cao Cao should've abdicated to the rightful heir of Han then Gongsun Zan already murdered Liu Yu tho e: also shout out to Liu Yi, a wealthy dude who gave away everything to feed the hungry during the yellow turban rebellion, before slaughtering his oxen, and then starving to death himself Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 00:05
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Bring back the Qin imo.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:07
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nearly two millenia too early but who's counting
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Jun 18, 2019 00:21
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Still super early but any one have any speculation on what DLC we might see? Nanman/Shanyue seem like an obvious choice, and Korea is on the map and there were some small scale campaigns there, some minor stuff with Xiongnu/nomads as well. Period is too early for Japanese pirates so I don't think we'll see that. Maybe it'll be more in the vein of Napoleon/Warhammer where they try smaller campaigns focused on specific regions? Say, a Red Cliff focused campaign or something?
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Jun 18, 2019 00:34
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The South needs to be filled out as every game the south is dominated by one faction quickly and it makes them a lot less fun than the thunderdome up north
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Jun 18, 2019 00:42
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Still super early but any one have any speculation on what DLC we might see? Nanman/Shanyue seem like an obvious choice, and Korea is on the map and there were some small scale campaigns there, some minor stuff with Xiongnu/nomads as well. Period is too early for Japanese pirates so I don't think we'll see that. Maybe it'll be more in the vein of Napoleon/Warhammer where they try smaller campaigns focused on specific regions? Say, a Red Cliff focused campaign or something? What they talked about is different time period starts. So maybe a campaign option with Sima Yi as playable, an option set during the start of the Yellow Turban rebellion, stuff like that.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:43
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same for the border regions in general, they should be bastions having to pacify their surroundings before being able to strike south
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Jun 18, 2019 00:43
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12 trebuchets, 2 nerd commanders, 6 yi militia to tarpit enemy commanders and a champion to kill them is probably the most effective army I've used on romance mode. Especially against cities. Assault, flatten half the garrison and wait for a draw, repeat next turn until attrition makes them sally out and die.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:The South needs to be filled out as every game the south is dominated by one faction quickly and it makes them a lot less fun than the thunderdome up north Yeah I expect the south is where we're going to see DLC factions show up first because it's clearly the biggest dead zone at the moment. It's why Sun Jian gets so huge every game - there's nothing down there to slow him down.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:49
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Fangz posted:What they talked about is different time period starts. So maybe a campaign option with Sima Yi as playable, an option set during the start of the Yellow Turban rebellion, stuff like that. Given the scope is somewhere between a Race and Campaign pack, we'll probably see a significant date lumped in with some new cultural lords. The Nanman would make sense to lump in with a Sima Yi/Zhuge Liang focused campaign starting at say 223 (Liu Bei's death and Zhuge Liang's regency). Maybe the Shanyue added with a 195 start date, so you've got Sun Ce's southern campaigns and an actual Lu Bu starting position. Maybe 210 as a start date? You've got Liu Bei's move into Yi, and Ma Chao's attack on Cao Cao as a good precedent for adding Qiang/nomadic cultures (give me hordes CA). Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 00:56
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Asehujiko posted:12 trebuchets, 2 nerd commanders, 6 yi militia to tarpit enemy commanders and a champion to kill them is probably the most effective army I've used on romance mode. Especially against cities. Assault, flatten half the garrison and wait for a draw, repeat next turn until attrition makes them sally out and die. If you hit the withdraw button your units run out of the map and it auto draws; no need to wait out the timer.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:59
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Come on start with the han still being alive and dong zhou being a good guy putting down yellow turbans
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Jun 18, 2019 00:59
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I want to play as the Ten Eunuchs
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Jun 18, 2019 01:10
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 Big oof.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:20
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I wish the uniques adopted your name like the generics do if you adopt them.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:01
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I have literally never gotten a spy to be taken in by the enemy. How do you spy at all?
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Jun 18, 2019 02:06
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Unlucky7 posted:Forgive me if this has already been linked, but here is Three Kingdoms characters as dril tweets (its a thread) Jesus christ these are golden fakeedit -  https://twitter.com/panarin_misha/status/1139597498077667330?s=19
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Jun 18, 2019 02:22
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Third World Reagan posted:I still feel like blue, red, and purple troops tend to excel over green and yellow. Green is a lot better vs cavalry and even gets hidden buffs vs cavalry, but purple seems okay vs cavalry too? I don't think I've ever had the AI (on higher difficulties) suicide charge into green. Since archers are so good and get spammed a lot, the AI doesn't seem to use cavalry well, and purple tends to trump green because of their much better melee evasion stats, I think purple gets a lot more mileage than green.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:24
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I have never had lack of shield be a problem for cav charging archers.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:43
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Third World Reagan posted:I have never had lack of shield be a problem for cav charging archers. Once the AI commits to lineman targets for a few seconds, they never seen to switch to cavalry in mass One lone archery unit on a rear flank might target the cavalry, but...well that's why the mounted general leads them I generally pick missile defense cavalry as my hard counter to the AI's archer spam. Am I missing something from red cav?
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Jun 18, 2019 02:52
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Potato Salad posted:Once the AI commits to lineman targets for a few seconds, they never seen to switch to cavalry in mass Red cav will break a unit of archers basically instantly on the charge. Yellow cav have a lot worse charge bonus and it takes them a lot longer to actually remove the archers from the fight. They're also a lot more useful against anything else -- two units of shock cavalry in wedge formation will almost always drop even a full unit of spears or halberds to like 30% HP and shatter them on the first charge as long as they don't have charge reflect or charge negate (and those aren't active if you charge them from the flanks/rear like you should be). Zurai fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 02:58
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One thing to bear in mind when discussing combat AI in this game: it changes based on what difficulty you're playing on. The lower ones, it tends to pick targets and be less reactive in general, and will do dumb things like firing arrows at lone generals they'll barely hit, or turtle formation infantry they literally cannot damage. Higher difficulties they are smarter. So it's probably worth pointing out what combat difficulty you're playing when talking about AI habits and ways to exploit them.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:52
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I get the impression that red cav is more expensive/harder to get (in terms of reforms) than yellow. Maybe that's faction specific/reflective of my love of the yellow part of the reform tree.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:56
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Yellow Cav also doesn't have a Dragon unit for whatever reason.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:06
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The Cheshire Cat posted:One thing to bear in mind when discussing combat AI in this game: it changes based on what difficulty you're playing on. The lower ones, it tends to pick targets and be less reactive in general, and will do dumb things like firing arrows at lone generals they'll barely hit, or turtle formation infantry they literally cannot damage. Higher difficulties they are smarter. So it's probably worth pointing out what combat difficulty you're playing when talking about AI habits and ways to exploit them. Zane fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 04:34
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Potato Salad posted:Once the AI commits to lineman targets for a few seconds, they never seen to switch to cavalry in mass Red cav do a ridiculously larger amount of damage on the charge than melee cav do, so yellow cav charging archers take very little damage on the way in but then get bogged in and stuck while slowly grinding the archers away while red cav charging archers take more damage on the way in but cause the archers to explode and die, which means that your cav are then freed up to shatter the enemy line by rear charging. You can also avoid most of the damage they take - thus negating the main benefit of yellow cav - by taking a wider flanking route, splitting your cav to attack from different angles, or just running a hero with the missile block skill to make the red cav immune on the way in. Basically the difference between the two is yellow cav are just melee infantry on horses while red cav are exploding freight trains that shatter units very quickly.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:40
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The thing is that the charge bonus from all cav units, even mounted archers, is more than enough to gently caress up archer units across the board. Lances are overkill for archers, I'd rather have shields, especially since it lets you send two or three units against six units of archers without getting shredded. Lances are definitely superior for flank and rear attacks on heavy infantry and the like, though.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:44
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cheese posted:Can we talk about how insane trebs with a strategist's flaming shot are? Cause they are insane. No good reason not to have 2-3 in every army. The only reason is knowing how blatantly ahistorical they are. Might as well put hand grenades in the game (oh wait they did that too).
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Jun 18, 2019 05:03
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sassassin posted:The only reason is knowing how blatantly ahistorical they are. *spittle flying* How loving! dare THEY?!
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Jun 18, 2019 05:23
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Franks Happy Place posted:The thing is that the charge bonus from all cav units, even mounted archers, is more than enough to gently caress up archer units across the board. Lances are overkill for archers, I'd rather have shields, especially since it lets you send two or three units against six units of archers without getting shredded. In all of my time playing, low tier melee cav smack into peasant archers and get stuck in and have to grind them down while low tier shock cav smack into them and rout them nearly instantly. High tier melee cav do much better but so do high tier shock cav, and many high tier shock cav variants have other benefits as well(like white wave veterans having shields, for example). I've never had archers be an actual threat to shock cav because you control entirely when you close range due to your speed and there are multiple ways to nullify incoming archer fire with abilities, or simply forcing the archers to split their fire by approaching from multiple angles.
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Jun 18, 2019 05:29
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Zane posted:this is a claim with battle ai that is often made but not often substantiated. it isn't even necessarily a good thing since stat bonuses on higher difficulties can warp tactics and unit balance. the only claim that i've seen truly substantiated is that hard/very hard battle ai will not target turtle formation infantry. It's pretty reasonable that if it reacts to difficulty in one way, it reacts in other ways too. It seems very strange that they'd take the effort to program in different AI per difficulty for exactly one circumstance.
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Jun 18, 2019 05:38
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Normal AI will also do braindead poo poo like cavalry charge units in a charge reflect stance head on.
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Jun 18, 2019 05:39
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sassassin posted:The only reason is knowing how blatantly ahistorical they are. isn't right around now when china invented them or do you mean setting poo poo on fire
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Jun 18, 2019 05:42
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I'm having way more fun just pretending trebuchets don't exist tbh. They're a weird as gently caress and broken unit. Why is the one and only artillery piece available at level 1 for just one type of already very powerful dude? Why is it the only way to get "siege attacker"? Why is it useless at anything but walls until it ranks up/gets flaming shot and then becomes a WW2 rocket battery with homing missiles? Why does the AI almost never take any? Why can't I recruit a doofy catapult?
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Jun 18, 2019 06:13
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Zurai posted:It's pretty reasonable that if it reacts to difficulty in one way, it reacts in other ways too. It seems very strange that they'd take the effort to program in different AI per difficulty for exactly one circumstance.
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Jun 18, 2019 06:19
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Alright, I wasn't originally going to make a Dong Zhou post-victory post since "I was at war with everyone forever" isn't particularly interesting a read but things got kinda wacky near the end and Liu Bei, as always, was an enormous prick that needs recounting. This was probably the hardest campaign so far because oh god everyone hates you forever. Your borders are somehow both tiny and simple to defend but the river also makes them porous. The Horse Pastures make getting the faction cavalry up super easy but just sending someone to claim them when the entire map is sending a dozen armies at you is dicey. The Xihe area changed hands like a dozen times and the Luoyang port was almost as bad. But things stabilized with me basically dividing the army into three leaders. Lu Bu handled my northern conquests, Dong Zhou focused on the middle area and Xu Rong I sent south to conquer Chengdu. Most importantly I married off Dong Min's godawful rear end to some minor lord in return for them becoming a vassal because holy poo poo Dong Min is bad no wonder he gets destroyed. Him and Dong Zhou together basically completely neuter the advantages that Intimidation gives you. And once those bonuses get rolling things are smooth. At endgame I had all of my commanderies gaining public order even with the tax increased. I even used tax collectors for the first time ever really. Though things got kind of swingy when the bar would drop below max level since I'd suddenly lose a third of my income due to corruption. Yeesh. Coerce is great when you actually get to use it, +15 positive? Hell yeah and getting Intimidation isn't that hard with how often you get into fights but, you simply don't get much to use it on because everyone hates you. Yeah, you can utterly extort the Han's coffers but there's not much else to do. Razing was less valuable and honestly dangerous with how utterly it demolished your respectability but after Dong Zhou died it was necessary to refill my bar which had emptied and destroyed my treasury. At endgame I was just burning cities because I could and everyone pissed me off. This made me so ludicrously disrespected that giving away settlements for free was actually a negative. Dong Zhou dying was actually an enormous positive, odd as it sounds, because his heir, Dong Li, rolled super loving good traits and was an amazing Faction Leader for her bonuses. She got brilliant, and her strategist also had brilliant so enemy ammo was hilariously low. I got a ton of guys with brilliant all around so archers were running on empty all the time. Dong Min also ended up dying in some pointless war my vassal fought and his wife joined the faction that killed him for added hilarity. After I secured my position within Black Mountain, the northeast horse pasture and Luoyang I was able to sue for peace with the entire eastern side of the board. This gave me plenty of time to reorient my armies and begin my attack on Liu Biao, the one major guy left I was at war with and--Liu Bei confederated him the colossal jackass god dammit even when I'm at peace with him he somehow manages to screw my over god loving dammit! Grah, so now I slowly eat the remaining minor lords of the south and force Shi Xie into vassal. Yuan Shao has got a big vassal storm going and I want to take him out and secure the north but I'm worried about Liu Bei declaring war while I'm busy. I can actually get him into a coalition for some substantial rewards but I'm leery. I take break before I do and a dawning realization hits me and I rush to check and, yes indeed I'm about to hit Queen and trigger Three Kingdoms. I would have given substantial wealth to Liu Bei only for him to backstab me immediately. Whew, avoided that bullet! Wu, Shu-Han and me. Except Wu signed into a goddamn Alliance with Yuan Shao grah. At this point the game had become three power blocks centered around us three. Still, despite me declaring war on Yuan Shao I Coerce Wu into a NAP and start my invasion. Only for my vassal to want to declare on Shu-Han. Sure, sure why not. Back to war with everyone! It basically became the fantasy trope of the Evil Empire invades everyone at the same time and wins. Liu Bei had all his armies down south so marched them north but Xie Shi and I scooped up everything he left mostly undefended. By the time he actually reached Luoyang my spies had earned enough resource to pull off two military coups. Suddenly those five threatening armies were three separate armies right in range of my six armies. And that's how in one move I destroyed most of Liu Bei's army. With most of the competition destroyed it was just marching on and burning everything to the ground. Right on the endgame turn Shi Xie declares free but screw it I'm burning down Wu. And victory. Lu Bu was even more monstrous than I expected. He could flat-out route entire garrisons alone before the rest of the army even got involved. He actually hit level 10. At endgame it was even more ludicrous when I threw him into stronger enemy armies since Zhang Jiao's Resolve of the Rigtheous is an army-wide buff, not just buffing himself. The only thing more absurd than Lu Bu is Lu Bu with 80 attack speed. Sun Jian died, Sun Ce died. Lady Wu went hard east and a substanial amount of Han Empire ended up surviving. Started gobbing up bits of Shu and Kong Rong during my wards with them. Sun Ren got married off the Tao Yin of all people. Had the most baffling turn involving Cao Cao. Dong Zhou me! Cao Cao got punched hard by me for a while before he got vassalized by Wu. Then, a few turns later, he breaks free and vassalizes Wu. Yeah. Eventually joins the Yuan Shao Alliance against me which does not go well. Gongsun Zan got destroyed by Yuan Shao. Kong Rong had too many armies for how little territory he had. He flipped alliegiences constantly but eventually settled with Liu Bei. After I wiped him out, Kong Rong joined with Yuan Shao's rump state and was absolutely furious with me. Liu Bei. Oh god Liu Bei. Peach Brothers were obnoxious as hell and took Xihe port multiple times. Every time I marhsalled my forces to take the nearby city from him he became a vassal which meant I wasn't at war. But once I reordered myself he came back. Argh. Everything he did was such a perfect rear end in a top hat maneuver all the time it was like perfect historic Liu Bei. I eventually destroyed and executed all three bros near endgame. Xu Rong got the Crescent to really nice effect. After Liu Bei died he went through like 15 other rulers before I burned all his remaining settlements to ash. Liu Biao did some aggressive southern expansion and I was looking forward to devouring him after he betrayed me but then Liu Bei happened. Ma Teng thought he could take me. He was wrong. Yuan Shu flailed uselessly trying to take me out but after I killed him I was able to vassailize his successor for a few turns until he wanted a war I didn't want. Since he'd been pushed around so hard he joined Yuan Shao's vassal swarm even if he was such a rump state he couldn't do anything with it. Yuan Shao took out Gongsun Zan and made allies with everyone to oppose me. He actually died in battle at one point and I was able to sue for peace with his successor. He gathered nearly every single faction left under his banner and formed an Alliance with Wu. He had way too many armies for how small his territory was. At one point he had more full stacks than settlements. He also went through five successors and ended up with a Gongsun leading haha. Zhang Yan helped take the northeast but lost the Black Mountain war to me. He was a pain during my wars and after getting exterminated joined with Yuan Shao for one last hurrah. Zheng Jiang tried to fight me only to lose the war. I was able to Coerce a settlement off her during a short peace and kept making her waste money rebuilding Xihe. I eventually just dumped all her territories on my vassl. Yellow Turban 3: He Yi, Huang Shao and Gong Du all got obliterated early on. Hilariously, a Yellow Turban Faction popped up in Wu territory that they never put down so I ended up +400 with them. One of the Bandits next, probably Zhang Yan. Then a Turban then maybe Ma Teng because boy he gets rolled fast.
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Jun 18, 2019 06:31
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Is Lu Bu the only one who can smash a gate with his halberd or can other vanguards?
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Jun 18, 2019 06:40
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How are you guys finishing campaigns so fast? I bought this game at release and I’ve just gotten to Duke in my first Cao Cao campaign.
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Jun 18, 2019 07:06
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Gamerofthegame posted:isn't right around now when china invented them They had human-powered trebuchets. The medieval style counterweight trebuchets in the game were invented in the west, they first show up in the historical record during the Crusades.
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Jun 18, 2019 07:06
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