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I think the tony is sociopathic does kind of have legs that not only does he kill Chris for being a rather minor annoyance, but he doesn’t really care. That could be because the show doesn’t really dwell on such a major character death but it’s definitely weird
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Jun 17, 2019 21:59
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Tony is self-serving and only commits good/evil that serves him. So he's that sort of neutral evil that you see in classic literature. Dracula and Popeye are neutral evil.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:43
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Basebf555 posted:That's why the tree branch through the car seat struck me as very true to Tony's character. Like, he's wanted to have the problem of Christopher out of his life for a good long while at that point, and in a fleeting moment he sees a mental pathway open up where he'll be able to justify doing the thing he hadn't been able to justify before, and he takes it. A detestable act, but also a very human one. True but Christopher's illness (addiction) is no less real than Tony's and Chris even offered up to Tony one time that "you understand the human condition", in attempt to bond, and received a blank stare in return so I'm not entirely buying the empathy argument.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:42
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I felt like he showed some empathy and remorse for his son immediately after his suicide attempt, a little bit for Johnny Sack after he went to prison, Uncle Junior before he shot him, and his cousin and everything that went down there. Of course this minimal empathy isn't enough to stop him from treating these people like garbage so maybe it isn't genuine at all. I think the show was hinting at him being a sociopath with him feeling actual feelings of love and endearment for babies and animals only. I think that's a common trait unless I'm mixing up my personality disorders. Edit: also to clarify Tony killing Chris scene was excellent. I just felt the rest of the episode was underwhelming considering what a big plot moment happened in the beginning.
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Jun 18, 2019 05:32
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I always thought the underwhelming aftermath was deliberate. Tony's waiting for this huge wash of guilt to hit him for killing his surrogate son... and it just doesn't. Iirc the episode ends - after him trying to either drown or spark something with a lot of excess in vegas - with him taking peyote and laughing at the rising sun saying something like "I get it" or "i did it". I always read that moment as him realising and admitting his true nature at least to himself, agreeing with melfi's ultimate conclusion that criminals cant's be cured.
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Jun 18, 2019 07:56
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Season 3, Episode 9 - The Telltale MoozadellGloria Trillo posted:You really are in love with yourself, aren't you? Carmela comes home to what seems like an empty home, till the sound of Tony singing gets her attention and her pleasure. He's singing Happy Birthday to her, though specifically the song is Sixteen Candles, and carrying a little box. She's pleased but a little wary, the love and the present are something she has learned to associate with his guilt. She puts that aside and opens the present, gushing over the (frankly, oversized to the point of tackiness) sapphire ring: this is whole she understands love, through material things, and she can't take her eyes off of it even as they embrace and kiss. That momentary concern returns though as AJ arrives on the scene and she again has the briefest of moment to question Tony's kindness before putting it aside. AJ has brought a present, still in its original plastic bag, claiming he didn't wrap it to preserve the environment. He's brought her a copy of The Matrix, a movie he is certain SHE will enjoy (I wonder what she'll make of Cypher?). Meadow is next to arrive, she's brought Carmela an envelope for a day of pampering at the Bella Donna Day Spa... as well as the explanation that she brought one for herself too so they can make a mother/daughter day of it... oh also she put it on Carmela's credit card! Tony, watching in the background, nods with a complete lack of surprise: at least the gift he brought her was something for HER that he paid for with HIS money. Carmela doesn't care though, she loves the attention of her children and in any case she just can't stop fixating on the and expensive ring: an ostentatious display of Tony's love and most importantly wealth that she can show the world.   Later that night at an old fashioned looking nightclub in Long Beach called The Lollipop Club, a man weeps inconsolably at the bar. He is Rocco, the owner, and he's crying because like Davey Scatino he has ruined his entire life by gambling and as a result his bar has been taken over by the mob. Benny Fazio stands behind the bar while an unsympathetic Furio has no time for Rocco's weeping, blaming him for getting in over his head and not being able to pay his debts. He tosses Rocco's drink in his face in disgust and reminds him he is still a partner in his own club after all, having the temerity to be enraged that Rocco isn't at least grateful for that. Back at the Soprano house, Carmela's parents and Janice and her boyfriend Aaron have joined the rest of the family. The sing the first couple words of Happy Birthday To You before suddenly being cut off by the doorbell. It's a familiar thing for most viewers of television up until 2017, the song was under copyright and television shows used to go to peculiar lengths to get around having to pay the rights fees to use it. It's Jackie Jr at the door, he brought her a nice bottle of alcohol, and Hugh and Mary are VERY pleased to see the tall, handsome, well-off ITALIAN boy who is currently dating their granddaughter. He joins Meadow and they launch into Happy Birthday again.... and get all the way through it without interruption! I guess HBO forked out the cash after all! Taking slices of cake and hot drinks, they settle around the living room where Jackie bonds easily with AJ over his place on the football team and his recent promotion to defensive captain. It seems in spite of his panic attack, AJ continued on the team and his play has continued to improve, with 5.5 sacks and two recovered fumbles. Jackie, who was an All County linebacker for Boonton, suggests they work out sometime and AJ happily invites him to come to the last game of the season this Tuesday. He accepts, Meadow beaming and inviting herself too, which AJ is less than pleased about, he wanted to hang out with Jackie some more. Janice returns from the rest room as Aaron explains to Tony that he can't have champagne as the Lord wouldn't want them to drink. Janice agrees, amusing Tony who quietly mimes that she's managed to leave a little cocaine on her nose after her visit to the bathroom, causing her to quickly turn away and brush her nose clean. AJ's beeper goes off, annoying Hugh who is tired of seeing these things everywhere (I have good news for the future, Hugh!) and is even more annoyed when Mary tells him she's bought him one so he won't "disappear" into the market again, which is probably some of the only relief he gets from her. The beep was from AJ's friend Egon, and he asks Carmela if he can stay the night over there if he is asleep by 1? She tells him he has to be in bed by 12, lights out by 1, and he quickly makes his exit.   At the Lollipop Club where Thursday is Ladies' Night and there are live rock bands on Saturday, Christopher brings a blindfolded Adriana into the empty club. She can smell piss and fish and it isn't exactly a compelling start to his surprise... until he removes the blindfold and informs her warmly that The Lollipop Club is now... hers. He and Furio are silent partners, but she will be the "owner"/manager. It is hers to do with as she wants, to manage, to bring in the bands, to find talent and give them a stage. It is his way of making her music management dream work while still being able to turn a profit through the things HE understands: booze and horny people. She is, of course, absolutely ecstatic: he made her quit being a hostess, a job she was good at and enjoyed, but this is her dream AND it is a show of support/belief from him. In season one, she mocked the idea of being like Carmela Soprano, a bored housewife with a perfect body because she had nothing to do but spend all day at the gym or be locked up in her empty mansion. Now, as Carmela basks in the glow of her family all gathered (happily!) around HER for a change, Adriana is also being showered with love but also given a position of authority and ownership in a field she is deeply interested in. Her love for Christopher couldn't be any higher, and all thoughts of piss and fish are gone from her mind. As she alternates between hugging him and looking around the club, already thinking about changing the name, Furio, Benny and a very large man walk out with Rocco. "He works for you," Christopher notes dismissively about the former owner, and he watches in dismay as the new "owner" waves a vacant, polite but ultimately disinterested hello before going back to ignoring him as she considers the possibilities and he thinks about all the work he will be doing to make sure the club keeps alive whatever she does. Tony and Carmela prepare to settle down for the evening, Tony trying to watch It's a Gift while she stands in the doorway staring mesmerized at her ring. But again that tickling sensation at the back of her mind won't go away, and she asks him if there is anything he wants to tell her? He betrays no sign of guilt or evasion, and when she asks why he didn't buy a Mercedes he tells her what he probably genuinely thinks: he'd look like a douche in one of those. She's relieved, despite her giving him the go-ahead, she and Jeannie Cusamano think of them as mid-life crisis mobiles. She hops into bed, taking a bite of birthday cake when he offers it to her, and now all thoughts are banished again as she loses herself in the material splendor of the ring once more. The only sour note now is when Rosalie calls and Tony answers, telling her that Jackie isn't there anymore because he took Meadow out to the movies and said they wouldn't be out too late. After hanging up, he notices her worried look, and she explains that unlike everybody else she isn't enamored with the idea of Jackie/Meadow as a couple. Tony, who had his own issues with Jackie, is on the side of the others though, he thinks Jackie comes "from good stock". But though he gets mildly offended at Carmela's concern about Meadow being with "someone like him" and cracks a nasty joke about Noah ("Jamal Ginsberg, the Hasidic homeboy", a pun that she smiles/laughs at, revealing her own better concealed racism), he quickly pulls back from a potential fight and instead addresses her concerns. As parents, they'll present a united front and they'll deal with this like adults: he will take Jackie aside to talk firmly about what is expected of him, and Carmela will take Meadow aside to remind her not to let the gloss of a new relationship distract her from her studies/greater aspirations. Meadow is an adult so you'd think she was well beyond this kind of parenting, but it quickly becomes apparent this isn't the case. She and Jackie are parked up as they prepare to end their night, and she's presented him with... his homework? She's written a paper on Edgar Allan Poe for his Literature of Obsession class, insisting he would have done it himself if he'd had the time. Meadow of course was happy to do his homework for him, a way to show her love, and when he asks how to repay her she shows him a condom. They begin making out, and while she's probably thinking of this as a kind of funny reversal of normal gender dynamics (he pays for her kindness with sex), Jackie is just beaming at having a hot girlfriend who lets him have sex with her AND does his homework too! Tony and Carmela are asleep in bed, Jackie and Meadow are banging, and in the meantime AJ is... swimming? He and his friends aren't having a sleepover of course, they've broken into Verbum Dei and are swimming laps of the pool to impress the young girls they're with (including a young Lady Gaga!). As they flirt with the girls post-swim, two other boys burst into the room in excitement, they were able to break into Mr. Goodwin's office and have pulls out boxes of his files and his desk, the latter of which which they wildly toss into the pool. The girls squeal with delight and of course the other guys immediately want to impress too and everybody (one girl included) start pitching everything they can get their hands on into the water. One boy, desperate to be the center of attention, smashes in the glass trophy case, and they all rush to the wreckage and begin pitching those into the water too, hooting and laughing and just having the best old time.   Sunday morning and Meadow joins Tony and Carmela in the kitchen, where she's informed Jackie Jr has already arrived and is outside showing AJ a few football tricks. She watches him from the door, glowing with love, but her face falls when he waves a happy hello to her but then turns his attention back to AJ. Bracing herself for a conversation she has already played out a dozen times in her head, she turns to the father she'd largely been ignoring until recently and informs him that she's been thinking about what type of car he should buy her. Tony and Carmela are in rare agreement, she doesn't need a car, and she doesn't help her cause by complaining that he was happy to buy a big sapphire ring for his wife on her birthday but won't give the poor struggling college student a car so she can come visit them for dinner! But Tony can't help himself, he sees a chance to get a dig in and he jumps on it: he got her a car last year and she rejected it, remember? She's pissed (and probably grateful for a chance to make him look bad) as she lambasts him for what he did to Eric, giving a minor update on Davey's own condition: things didn't work out on that ranch, he's now in a Mental Health Facility. Carmela chooses this moment to talk, if not specifically about Jackie, then about all that New York City has to offer a young woman like Meadow who needs to be taking advantage of it. But as she expresses these concerns, Meadow only has eyes for handsome young Jackie outside as he continues laying out guidance to AJ. As an aside, it's easy to remember Jackie as a gently caress-up idiot, but there are plenty of moments throughout his time on the show where he see areas where he could have excelled, areas where his interest was high enough that he actually learned, developed and showed great promise. His coaching of AJ is a good example, but the sad fact is that he grew up fed on a mythology of his father/Tony and became convinced that was the one thing he was destined to be, while his father/Tony both pushed him into areas he had zero interest in or proclivity for. As AJ enjoys Jackie's guidance and the Sopranos enjoy what is largely a blissful family life at the moment, at Verbum Dei the principal is revolted as he walks around the mess of the pool as the janitors clean it up. Nothing has been stolen, it's just been vandalized, with the trophy case - The Wall of Pride - particularly galling to the principal. However, included among all the debris are the pizza boxes AJ and his friends left behind, and that's enough to get the police into action for an absolutely hilarious Joe Friday/Dragnet style scene as they "interrogate" a pizza store owner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhEUsKak8Dc AJ is left to face the music on Monday, as he is sent home from school. As a furious Carmela reads him the riot act, Tony comes wandering in from the kitchen and immediately realizes something is up: she's yelling, AJ is home from school early, what is going on? Again they present a completely united front as they both rip into him. AJ is maddeningly unreadable, while he clearly understands he is in trouble he doesn't seem to grasp how serious this is but also offers no reasonable explanation for his actions: he had no motivations for anything he did, he just did it, and somehow that makes it more upsetting for them. His only real sign of actual concern when Tony gets angry and he is clearly trying to hold back his tears so as not to appear unmanly/afraid. His answer that they were just "screwing around" is essentially the truth: he wasn't weight up consequences, he wasn't out to achieve anything or get back at anybody, he was just living in the moment doing something that was fun and not thinking till it was too late/he was faced with the consequences (where could he possibly get that from!?!). Tony slaps him around the head for that answer, but also tears into him for the fact he chose to do this on his mother's birthday, and just gets angrier when AJ - with perfect teenager logic - protests that it was after midnight and therefore technically not! He admits he doesn't know if he is suspended, he was simply sent home and told that the school would call them. Tony is livid, everything was going good, and while he's talking about AJ it's clear he's also thinking about the wider family and of course, as always, himself. Everything was going good and now AJ has hosed it up, he's going to miss the Championship game and screw up the football career that was showing so much promise. Disgusted, he walks away, leaving AJ standing awkwardly not knowing what to do now.  Carmela puts the unpleasantness behind her to go to lunch with Rosalie, where of course she shows off her ring. Artie brings them their meal, except it isn't what they ordered, he's brought them mozzarella and string beans? Not quite, he's showing off the burrata he had flown in especially from Italy, insisting they try it, it's more subtle and smooth than mozzarella. He tries to convince them to let him put cracked pepper on to contrast the crisp beans and smooth cheese but they decline, leaving him as awkwardly placed as AJ earlier before he leaves. Rosalie tries the cheese and grunts it just tastes like mozzarella to her, and they both commiserate/gossip over the collapse of Artie's marriage while noting/savoring the irony that he's a regular working man while their marriages remained strong in spite of their husbands' jobs and all the other distractions. Of course it's easy for Rosalie to say that, her Jackie is dead and now - like Johnny Boy with Livia - safely sainted in her memory. Of course she's also on a high, she's so happy about Meadow and Jackie being together, and she compliments Carmela on how well raised Meadow is (a compliment Carmela does not reciprocate with Jackie). Instead Carmela compliments her on the catch she made with Ralphie, who apparently is a big supporter of Tony now that he's finally gotten his promotion. As they appreciate the strength of their marriages and lightly condemn Charmaine for "pushing too far", Carmela's husband is bringing expensive gifts to his latest mistress at Globe Mercedes. Gloria is in the middle of closing on a sale, but sends her client in and promises she'll join him in a moment to get the papers signed. She greets Tony, accepting the gift but not opening it or showing any real interest beyond the amusement of recieving it in the first place. He wants to take her out for another pleasant getaway of screwing and promises to make it worth her while and take her anywhere she wants to go. She resists though, not being aggressive but making it clear she has work that she must complete first. He tries again and this time she makes him a counter, if he'll take her anywhere it'll have to be another day... and she wants to go to the zoo. This surprises him but he quickly accepts after she explains she tries to go at least once a year, and she walks away, knowing he is watching her, thrilling to the power she holds over him and how easily she turned his desires and needs over to her own.   Tony goes to Satriale's where he watches a nature documentary with Paulie about snakes, leading to an amusing conversation about snakes with both sets of sexual organs, which leads to the punchline that snakes were loving themselves long before Adam and Eve showed up. A knock at the door reveals Jackie Jr has come visiting at Tony's request, and Paulie finds an excuse to leave them alone (not as subtly as Furio, but he manages it). Tony offers him a drink and he accepts a red wine as that is what Tony is drinking. Tony is charming, warm and extremely, extremely firm as he calmly tells Jackie to shut up as he lays out his expectations for Jackie's behavior with his daughter. He knows he has already been on Jackie about taking his studies seriously, but this is an even bigger issue now that it appears he has a serious relationship with Tony's own daughter. He wants to know that Jackie is a serious, responsible adult who has a career path and a future ahead of him. Jackie finally manages to get a word in though, and he leaves Tony surprised and pleased when he informs him he just got an A on his Lit paper on Edgar Allan Poe. He jokes that Poe was a good writer but a loving nut job (well, Jackie got SOMETHING right at least) and Tony laughs too, allowing himself to be charmed as he considered that maybe Jackie has greater depths than he thought after all, completely unaware that Meadow is the one who wrote the paper. Even so he makes it clear that he wants Jackie to keep this up, to keep his father in mind. Jackie nods respectfully, and even tries to beg off when Tony pulls out some cash to get Meadow something nice after dinner. Tony insists he take the money though, reminding him not to keep her out too late, and they kiss and hug before Jackie departs, probably on cloud 9 after getting one over on Tony, while Tony is left thinking that Jackie Aprile Jr can't be in the Family but he wouldn't be such a bad addition to the family after all. At the former Lollipop Club, now Crazy Horse, Thursday is STILL ladies night but now it is the home to New Jersey's best alternative rock bands instead of a single band performing once every Saturday night. Inside the place is crowded for their opening night, Adriana glowing as she introduces The Miami Relatives Band (played by SCOUT) and gets the night started. She and Christopher watch for a moment and then make their rounds, while among the young hip crowd enjoying the music is the hilarious if pathetic sight of poor Artie Bucco desperately trying to look young, swaying to the music. He's far from the oldest there, but the older ones are the likes of Hesh and Paulie who have come out for opening night with dates, sitting at a table far from the bar and toasting to the opening of yet another cash front. Paulie - wearing ear buds - gives Christopher a big hug and an envelope of cash as a gift from himself, Silvio and Tony to mark the successful opening. Adriana joins them, asking Silvio how he likes the band, and he gives them a so-so, obviously he doesn't think they're a hit (is a hit) but at least they're not Visiting Day/Defiler. In the club's bathroom, a man of undetermined ethnicity named Matush (he's initially treated as an Israeli Jew, perhaps related or friends with Dov, but later a Muslim with ties to Pakistan) is dealing ecstasy. Furio and Benny enter the toilet behind the huge bouncer they employ for just this role, hauling Matush outside ignoring his protests that they call Carlo and tossing him to the curb. Furio boots him in the rear end and warns him not to ever let him see him there again, and they leave him dazed on the road. Having warned Jackie to treat Meadow right on a previous day, Tony now spends the day at the zoo with his mistress Gloria! They stand and watch a gorilla, Tony cracking jokes about it but Gloria serious as she discusses the innocence in their eyes and how they aren't inherently violent, preferring threat behavior. As she educates, Tony is all over her, kissing and nibbling at her ear, sliding his hand down her top... where he finds a Tibetan talisman and declares that he knew there had to be SOMETHING wrong with her. This irritates her, as they walk their jokes have become "jokes" as she points out that just because his sister is into Buddhism and is a wack job that doesn't make her one. She laughs off his suggestion that Catholicism is in any way normal, and gives him a brief and concise instruction in her take on Buddhism (one that conveniently allows her to make a career of selling $150,000 cars): The Buddha preached joyful participation in the sorrows of the world. He still can't wrap his head around it, so she turns the subject around to something she knows he'll be able to handle: playful at first, she jokes about how easily she got him to come to the zoo before turning it into a compliment, it's sweet that he came simply to make her happy. Now he's serious too, pulling close again after moving further apart during their little Buddhism derail, she tells him she's crazy about him and he tells the woman who is capable of making him do whatever she wants that he's never met anybody like her before. Oh Tony, you poor bastard. When a nun leads schoolkids past she realizes that this has caused him to think about his own kids, and he gets upset again when she mockingly says,"Poor you!" after he jokes that this killed his hard-on. Playfully she pulls him into the reptile house where he discovers she isn't wearing panties, and with only a giant snake as witness they screw fully clothed right there, and even here she controls the pace and dictates the terms without him even realizing it was happening.   Matush the ecstasy dealer has gone to his friend Carlo who had the previous arrangement with Rocco, and the two of them have figured out that "some zip called Multi-something" is running the Crazy Horse now, and that he is connected to the Soprano Crew. So they have come to the one man they know can fix things for them, a real mover and shaker in the world of organized crime... Jackie Aprile Jr!  Jackie is in heaven, fully playing the part of benevolent mob boss laying down calm wisdom, a man in complete control of his world with 100% confidence in his ability to get things done. It would be funny if it wasn't quite so sad, as he smugly informs Matush that he and Christopher are "associates" and since Carlo is willing to vouch for Matush he will use his "power" to fix things. Matush, who initially mistook Jackie for the son of Jack Nicklaus the golfer (!?!), is extremely grateful, and Jackie - reveling in his Godfather fantasy - motions to Dino who calls the "meeting" to an end. Tony is in another awkward meeting where things aren't quite as they seem. With Carmela and AJ, they listen as the Principal and the coach lay out just how much trouble AJ is in for his vandalism.... none. At all. Because he's good at sports. Yes, in spite of AJ breaking into the school and smashing up the "Wall of Pride", the principal is completely fine with passing the buck to Tony and Carmela while suspending AJ's sentence which SHOULD be expulsion. His reasoning is that AJ has shown academic improvement (to a C- average!) and all the studies show that sports is a great way to keep teenagers out of trouble (he smashed the place up AFTER he started playing!) and so it would be unfair to AJ if he got suspended... right before their team was to play in the Championship game. The rank hypocrisy it astounding, even Tony knows that this isn't right though he allows himself to be lulled into their way of thinking with little resistance. Carmela is furious, while AJ is quick to suppress (only after being caught out by Tony) not just relief but pleasure as he realizes he is going to escape unpunished: he is learning a valuable lesson all right, that he can get away with anything he wants. Having completely exposed their lack of teeth, the principal warns AJ that even a single further infraction will result in immediate expulsion. AJ affects a humble acceptance, but inside he must be doing cartwheels. Tony and Carmela leave, the latter furious at Tony giving up his token resistance the moment an easier alternative was presented. He insists though that it is only right that they keep things in the family, and that THEY will be the ones to mete out punishment to him. He doesn't grasp at all how severely he has undermined her and reinforced AJ's disdain for the school, or even how badly the school has hosed up and how exposed their true priorities have become. Meanwhile Gloria has a therapy session with Dr. Melfi where she happily declares she's had a good two weeks, with no nightmares, in fact she's been having good dreams. Melfi can tell she has been hiding something, especially when she claims nothing is happening in her social life, asking about the man she heard on the phone last week. Gloria, feeling cornered, pretends offense when Melfi doesn't believe her obvious lies about this being the mechanic who came to fix her car. Melfi doesn't rise to the bait or get angry, reminding her that she attempted suicide after a romantic relationship went sour. Gloria, a clear manipulator who could wrap Tony around her finger easily, attempts the same with Melfi, accusing her of being unprofessional. Melfi isn't fooled though, she simply tells Gloria that she'll "believe" her if she insists the mechanic story is true, making it clear she doesn't believe it for a goddamn second.   Christopher joins Silvio for a toast at the Bada Bing, where tired looking strippers dance for an afternoon crowd while Silvio warns that people only see the glamorous side of a job like this. Whether tits or music like at the Crazy Horse, you're reliant on the entertainment to get people in to drink and spend to make you money. A phone-call for Silvio leaves Christopher alone at the bar, where he's joined by Jackie Jr who attempts to make an argument for Matush. Christopher, who was warned off getting Jackie involved in any way in organized crime, is short and unwelcoming, making him move from Silvio's seat and refusing a sitdown "now" but agreeing to a chat. Jackie explains about Matush's woes and asks if, as a favor to him(!), he would allow him to keep his action going at the club. When Christopher simply stares, Jackie assures him he'd get a cut, so Christopher explains that Ecstasy is currently a Federal Crime and therefore not something he wants in his club. Jackie again completely mistakes his status by explaining that Christopher allowing this would mean a lot to him, amusing Christopher who can't believe his balls. They've disappeared now though, he's just seen Tony enter the club and so he quickly excuses himself and gets the hell out, going through the fire door and setting off the alarm. Everybody, including Tony, looks around but all they see is the door closing behind whatever dumb rear end in a top hat went through it. Jackie drives to meet with Matush, where he gives him the good news: he got him clearance to sell Ecstasy at Crazy Horse again! Matush is delighted, then confused when Jackie quietly explains that the one complication is that he... uhh... can't actually be IN Crazy Horse when he does it. He gets irritated by Matush's confusion, asking if he really has to figure out how best to work around but outside the club for him? Anyway, there are things happening beyond anything Matush could know, but give it a little time and soon he'll be back in the club, he promises! Matush, disappointed, accepts that this is the way things are, but as he tries to leave Jackie reminds him that he has to eat too, isn't Matush forgetting something? Exasparated, disappointed, Matush agrees he'll take care of Jackie, who them promptly informs him he expects this to be an ongoing thing, he'll come by every Sunday for his cut. "Cool" sighs Matush, getting out of the car, worse off now than he was when he started. AJ comes downstairs where Tony and Carmela are waiting, their united front belatedly put back on as they lay out his punishment. He's grounded for a month (he has the temerity to look pissed off at this gross injustice) which means no Nintendo, no DVDs, no skateboards and no computer. He uses that for school and Tony threw out the typewriter, but this holds no truck with Carmela who points out Einstein got by with a pen and so can he. In addition to this, Tony intends to put AJ to work in and around the house for a change. First order of business is that he is going to organize the garage, and Tony is surprised when Carmela lets him know that Jackie actually did that already the other day. Tony is surprised but uses this as another example: why can't AJ be more like Jackie Jr and get his act together!?! Oh Tony, you poor bastard. Carmela tells him he'll be cleaning the roof gutters, and Tony is at first angry and then bewildered when AJ has no idea what roof gutters are and that he isn't being a smart-rear end, he genuinely hasn't got a clue. Outside Crazy Horse, Matush is happily serving customers in an empty lot beside the club when the big bouncer comes out of nowhere and hauls him out. He cries out that he got permission from Jackie, but Benny yells at him not to namedrop, and then Furio - terrifying Furio - is there brandishing a gun, hauling him across the street as he informs him they're about to take a walk. A quick cut reveals Matush in a full body cast, Jackie seated beside him in the hospital brandishing a porno-mag and joking that at least his right arm is still good. Matush moans through wired shut teeth that this isn't funny, and complains that he did everything Jackie said and none of it meant poo poo. Jackie insists Matush must have done something wrong or disrespected them, asking if he mentioned his sitdown with Chris. Matush did, and tells Jackie something that everybody but him already realized: they don't like him. He begs Jackie to pass him the bedpan so he can piss, disgusting Jackie (who Tony thinks is in pre-med) who says that is the nurse's job, and if Matush is lucky then she'll be fine and give him a cheap thrill.   His jokes are masking unease though, as was his questioning if Matush mentioned his name, because now he's worried they're going to be coming after him. Back at his mother's house, he joins Rosalie and Ralph in preparing pasta, just waiting for the right moment to ask an important question of Ralph. When his sister Kelli calls, Rosalie leaves the room chatting happily, and Jackie respectfully pays attention to Ralphie's cooking instructions before finally asking the question: can he get a gun from him? This gives Ralphie - who is clearly at least temporarily off the coke as he enjoys the high of his new Captain status - momentary pause but he doesn't overreact or fly into a rage. Keen to get Jackie on side so he can enjoy a smoother relationship with Rosalie, he first asks if he needs to know anything and then considers the best kind of gun to get for Jackie, approving when Jackie asks what his opinion would be. He'd advice something simple and trustworthy like the 38 he keeps in his jacket, which he grabs out and hands to Jackie, saying he has another under the bed he'll grab later. Jackie practices aiming and asks how much he owes and Ralphie, still keen to curry favor, laughs that his money is no good. He calls Rosalie in from the other room and Jackie quickly hides the gun in the breadmaker. Tony and Gloria enjoy a night out at a plush hotel, where Tony sets the music to get in the mood. He dances with Gloria, who - mindful of her previous over-commitment/obsession as detailed by Melfi - tells him seriously that she expects nothing from him except for himself.... well himself and kindness. He's pleased to hear that and offers a simply,"Okay" which makes her laugh, and she offers some rough psycho-analysis herself as she laughingly calls him self-centered. He could have answered many different ways but he said,"Okay" which makes it clear that people simply wanting nothing from him BUT him is the way things should be. He loves himself, he deprives himself of nothing. He enjoys having her all over him as she leads him back to the couch and strips down to her underwear, but in spite of his lust and his enjoyment of her, it is still on his mind, does she think he is vain? "I think you're wonderful" she replies, pulling his pants down... and discovering the gun holstered to his ankle. She thrills to find it, and when he smiles and says some of his accounts are in bad neighborhoods she assures him she understands why he lies... but he doesn't have to. Not with her, she accepts him as he is, EXACTLY as he is. He lets her hold it, doesn't dispute that it is loaded, and she hands it back to him. He wasn't concerned or scared but he's relieved the loaded gun isn't being held anymore... or so he thinks as he holds her.  Tony attends therapy with Melfi, where all his complaints aren't about the school's failure to discipline AJ but Carmela calling him out on going along with their assessment. His claim is that as he is paying the school, he is buying their service, and who is he to dispute what they say is the best thing for AJ? Melfi of course is no stranger to him ignoring HER paid for opinion when it suits him, but she's also distracted by her suspicions about himself and Gloria. So she goes fishing, asking about the rest of his week, and he of course is over the moon with how great everything else is going apart from AJ's gently caress-up. Demonstrating a complete unawareness of the deeper goings-on in his home, he says Carmela was "moody" for a little while but is now back to her old self, which is technically true but completely exposes how little he knows about how deeply unhappy she was or the soul-shattering encounter she had with Dr. Krakower. Tony, being Tony, can't help but take things just a little too far as he decides to tell her about how he went to the zoo. It is a good memory, but he's bringing it up because he's thrilling to the fact that he's telling her an abridged and edited version of something taboo that she would not approve of if she knew the full story. He puts his recent happiness down to her, again smug because he thinks he is getting one over on her (which also completely negates the entire point of therapy, it isn't something you "win"), and misses the clear sarcasm/warning when she says his improvements are down to him and how HONEST he is with both himself AND her. But she admits he does seem happier, and her alarm bells immediately start ringing when he quotes "You have to joyfully participate in the suffering of the world". While Gloria is far from the only person he could have heard that line from, it adds up with everything else she knows, and when she probes a little deeper about this sudden "Eastern flavor" his thoughts have he puts it down to Sun Tzu. Now he knows he has perhaps taken things a little too far, and Melfi's "We have to stop now" is laden with double-meaning. He gets up to leave, but before he goes he forks out a handful of cash, saing it is his co-pay from the last month. She notes there is too much money, and can't accept it when he says the extra is for her good work (and his way of trying to offset his guilt about lying to her). When she insists she can't accept, he waves it off by telling her to give it to charity, and walks out whistling as she is forced to let him go due to a ringing phone. Is is her son, Jason, calling from his dorm, and she takes the opportunity to vent her disgust and rage with her lying rear end in a top hat patients who lie to her face and have no respect for her or the work she does. "gently caress 'em, quit!" he suggests, and with a laugh she admits right now this doesn't seem like a bad idea. She apologizes for bogarting the call, asking how he is, and reluctantly he admits that he called to ask about buying a couple of expensive books. That leaves Melfi, who was just complaining about the lovely positions her patients put her in, to ponder all that extra money Tony just left her. Jason IS her favorite charity (she and Richard sold their retirement plot to basically support his useless rear end after he leaves college) after all, and this is yet another moral crossroads she has found herself at thanks to Tony Soprano. Tony of course is still walking on air. He arrives at "Mancuso Insurance", the illegal casino, where he is greeted warmly and makes his way around the room greeting people and shaking hands... till he spots Jackie at the blackjack table. He approaches and crowds him, putting on that terrifying fake smile that means he's furious and getting ready to do something nasty. Jackie grunts at the unseen person behind him that he doesn't want teammates, then struggles to balance himself mentally as he realizes it is Tony. Tony is all over him, an arm around him, insisting he hit which causes him to bust. Tony smiles that he shouldn't have listened to him, then hauls him off the table with a "friendly" command for him to come with him. He grabs his collar and shakes him, demanding through clenched teeth to know what he is doing here? Jackie makes the mistake of making a relevant point: Tony is here himself. Tony is even angrier now, he doesn't want Jackie sleeping around, being unfaithful, drinking, gambling etc etc... all the things that Tony happily does himself. Tony knows those things are wrong, but only when other people do them. When he does them, it is always in some way justified or earned, and he doesn't take kindly to those who question that, or worse, who make him question that about himself. Jackie scrambles for an answer that seems plausible, saying he was at a bachelor's party and got dragged her. Tony reminds him that this is exactly the kind of thing he warned him about, so he's going to get his money and get the hell out of there, and he never wants to see him there again. Jackie, who probably still half believes that the entire Moltisanti Crew are out for his blood, does exactly as he is told... for now. The next morning, Tony comes downstairs in his bathrobe where Carmela is reading a magazine, and as he kisses her neck he notices she has new earrings on... with blue sapphires, matching the ring he bought her. She admits she "treated" herself but points out she showed restraint by not getting the matching necklace... though Christmas IS coming up. Tony's reaction is much the same as it was over Meadow's reveal she bought Carmela's gift with Carmela's credit card but he agrees that maybe he might buy her the necklace. He grabs a plate from the fridge and asks if Meadow is still around, but she's out with Jackie to see a performance of Aida ("I eat her?" gasps a horrified Tony, until Carmela explains). Carmela has to admit that Tony was right, Jackie Jr has been a perfect gentleman, he helps out around the house, he is good with AJ, and now he's taking Meadow out to experience all those cultural and educational things that she wanted Meadow to see. As long as Meadow's grades stay up, Carmela has no problem with the relationship after all. Tony smiles and nods, but uneasily, he's happy that she's come around to his side of things... but of course he himself has come around to HER side of things at roughly the same time, and how can he bring up that the reason for this is bumping into Jackie Jr at an illegal casino he owns? He is pleased when he hears stomping and sees leaves falling out of the gutter on the roof though, it seems AJ is doing his work, a minor triumph. So he goes back to eating, but as he does he can't help but look back at Carmela obliviously reading her magazine. Carmela with the big ring that wasn't enough so she brought matching earrings and now wants a matching necklace. Carmela who argues with him and questions him and fights with him and blames him when he does things wrong and doesn't seem to understand him. Carmela who is wrapped up in the material. He looks at her and he compares her unfavorably with his new goomar (and doesn't for a second consider how having a mistress is HIS problem) who is none of those things: she's competent and self sufficient and she understands him but doesn't judge him and she's sexy and he doesn't have to lie to her (he doesn't have to lie to Carmela either, but he does and blames her for it, and gets angry when she doesn't understand his feelings about the things he won't tell her) and all she wants is him, just him, nothing but him. She's the perfect woman, he thinks she is unlike any other he has ever met before, and Carmela by comparison is flawed and unexciting.  Tony Soprano, you loving idiot. Season 3: Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood | Proshai, Livushka | Fortunate Son | Employee of the Month | Another Toothpick | University | Second Opinion | He Is Risen | The Telltale Moozadell | ...To Save Us All from Satan's Power | Pine Barrens | Amour Fou | Army of One Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2019 14:16
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I think that Tony uses the violent side of his personality to protect him from unpleasant emotions in his softer, more aware side. When Ralph kills the horse (or at least shows no remorse over the horse's accidental death), a normal person would grieve and get angry. But these are open-ended, difficult emotions and instead Tony uses violence to regain a feeling of control and power. In that "Psychology of the Sopranos" book, the author described Tony as having a "vertical split" in his personality that allowed him to compartmentalize his life into different areas that he kept emotionally separate. So he was actually capable of being a caring and loving dad WHILE being a ruthless murderer, and this split prevented him from seeing the conflict between the two. He can then use the violent side of the "split" to prevent the other side from feeling excess pain or sadness.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:19
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I found some articles on the prequel movie, which apparently has wrapped https://movieweb.com/many-saints-of-newark-wraps-production-set-video-photos/ https://www.thewrap.com/the-many-saints-of-newark-michael-gandolfini-sopranos-prequel/ Hadn't really seen it come up for discussion
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Jun 18, 2019 14:45
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Jerusalem posted:Season 3, Episode 9 - The Telltale Moozadell I don't know why, but this is legit one of the funniest moments in the series.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:50
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I absolutely love the look on AJ's face as they explain it to him, it looks like they're speaking a foreign language or he's grasping each individual word but together they're just gibberish to him 
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Jun 18, 2019 15:09
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Jackie Jr.'s "sitdown" with Matush & Co. is riotously funny; it is what literally every dipshit college kid who only takes The Godfather out of their DVD player to put in The Godfather Part II imagines themselves to be. God, Jackie is such a moron.
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Jun 18, 2019 15:21
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JethroMcB posted:Jackie Jr.'s "sitdown" with Matush & Co. is riotously funny; it is what literally every dipshit college kid who only takes The Godfather out of their DVD player to put in The Godfather Part II imagines themselves to be. It really does go to show how much influence The Godfather had on even the Mafia itself.
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Jun 18, 2019 15:54
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AJ giving Carmela a DVD copy of the Matrix for her birthday is the most AJ moment of the entire series.
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Jun 18, 2019 19:16
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ruddiger posted:AJ giving Carmela a DVD copy of the Matrix for her birthday is the most AJ moment of the entire series. It's actually the best of the 3 gifts. The spa was paid for on Carmela's card, so it's not really a gift. The ring is some ridiculous blood sapphire that killed people. If she had watched the Matrix she might have accepted what the old therapist was telling her and that she needed to see the light. Pretty foolish of her and Tony to not understand her son's concern for her, as well as turning down the opportunity to watch a defining ex post facto queer cinema achievements. AJ was in the right and this is why he tries to kill himself in season 6.
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Jun 18, 2019 21:38
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I love the sheer loving gall of Meadow to essentially buy herself a spa day with her mom's credit card and portray it as a birthday gift. Meadow, by virtue of having a brain and sometimes using it, usually comes off way better than AJ, but she's still so terrible.
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Jun 18, 2019 22:39
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Grenrow posted:I love the sheer loving gall of Meadow to essentially buy herself a spa day with her mom's credit card and portray it as a birthday gift. Meadow, by virtue of having a brain and sometimes using it, usually comes off way better than AJ, but she's still so terrible. While Sopranos was normally pretty bad at writing any character under 30, this did feel authentic.
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Jun 18, 2019 22:47
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Yeah, that's very human but also lovely. But the kind of thing kids don't even think about sometimes. (If they're rich and spoiled) She is usually more mature than AJ (she's older after all) but they both have flaws, largely because of Tony.
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Jun 18, 2019 23:03
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Yeah, no. Both of the kid's gifts were completely selfish and had no thought put behind them. The Matrix gift might as well have been a PS2 game that AJ wanted to play or a Mortal Kombat game. Meadow just decided to game the system and get something she would like, couched in a "we'll do it together" presentation. Even Tony's gift was relatively thoughtless even though Carm liked it. Look at this gaudy, ostentatious symbol of wealth that proves how much I love you. Then later Tony pretends to care with the "and on your mother's birthday" remark. The whole family is mostly measured in degrees of selfishness and displays of spoiled privilege. At least when AJ tried the breakfast in bed thing once there was some thought to it. The whole episode was like that in a sense and I'd never really thought about it until it was written up of well. Tony, as is pointed out, was watching "It's a gift" on the TV. Artie tried to give the gift of his culinary creativity but, if I remember right, he was shown trying to trim costs in the process (?). Might have been another episode. Chris gave Ade her own club but that was acquired through his mob stuff and throws in the "gift" of the labor from the guy they busted out. Tony tried to give Gloria (an unopened) present at the dealership before settling on the "gift" of a date at the zoo but had ulterior selfish and sexual motives, then she give him the gift of unconditional acceptance. Jackie Jr. tried to give the non existent gift of his mob clout to the drug dealer. Something he didn't even have to give and that was empty in a way that left the recipient half beaten to death. The principal gave a self serving gift to get AJ out of trouble. Meadow gave the gift of sex and academic fraud to her boyfriend that everyone seems thrilled with. Then later, the shallow gift from Tony that Melfi recycles into books for her son.
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Jun 18, 2019 23:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Jackie Jr. tried to give the non existent gift of his mob clout to the drug dealer. It wasn't a gift, he was showing off and flexing. I was with you up to that point, but if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. 
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Jun 18, 2019 23:41
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Zaphod42 posted:It wasn't a gift, he was showing off and flexing. Fair enough. I think he looked at as a gift. He played the "do me a favor" card. Might have been a reach.
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Jun 19, 2019 00:30
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I'm just busting your balls though, you've got a good point there for sure. Seems to be a major theme of those episodes.
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Jun 19, 2019 03:51
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I never really liked the "Tony is a sociopath" theory, it seems to cheap and neat of an explanation. When he killed Chris, I always felt his outburst about not giving a gently caress about him dying to Melfi was a flex to show how tough of a guy he was. He wasn't really able to do that anywhere else and it was kind of like confession. It's not like he could tell his crew "Hey I killed Chris because he was a little bitch"! everyone would have freaked the gently caress out and thought they were next. In regards to his actual emotions, I think they were a confused mix and to a certain extent all of them were mostly true. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 21:03
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Jack2142 posted:I never really liked the "Tony is a sociopath" theory, it seems to cheap and neat of an explanation. When he killed Chris, I always felt his outburst about not giving a gently caress about him dying to Melfi was a flex to show how tough of a guy he was. He wasn't really able to do that anywhere else and it was kind of like confession. It's not like he could tell his crew "Hey I killed Chris because he was a little bitch"! everyone would have freaked the gently caress out and thought they were next. Especially as by that point I think they all did think they could be next, not being as closely related to Tony as Tony B was.
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Jun 19, 2019 22:13
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I don’t think it was a flex, I think Tony himself seemed confused by his reaction. The scene comes off more like him venting rather than flexing. When Tony flexes he is not subtle at all.
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Jun 20, 2019 00:33
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I never read Tony as a sociopath either. Narcissistic, rationalizing, self serving, dishonest and emotionally compartmentalizing but I never got the sense he just simply didn't CARE about anyone else. He's selfish, shallow and prone to violence but he sort of has a code and a semblance of a moral compass that he makes occasional attempts to follow.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:02
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Dawgstar posted:Especially as by that point I think they all did think they could be next, not being as closely related to Tony as Tony B was. Yeah even though everyone was pretty sour on Chris at this point. I can't see anyone on the crew letting it slide after Tony B. They let it slide for Toby B because well they didn't want to get whacked by NY. CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think it was a flex, I think Tony himself seemed confused by his reaction. The scene comes off more like him venting rather than flexing. Flex was probably the wrong term, venting most definately.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:04
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Any theories why Tony cares so much about animals and babies then? Is it as simple as Tony recognizing their innocence, which he never had due to the corrupting influence of his parents? I figured they possibly included that to indicate he was a sociopath but I agree with the earlier posts that he did show some realistic signs of caring for other human adults occasionally. Gandolfini was such a great actor that could be extremely expressive at times but also subtle in displaying his emotions, so it's sometimes difficult to tell if he actually cares about something or is just bullshitting. Honesty I think sociopathy is probably a spectrum rather than such a binary thing but I'm only an armchair psychologist. Gotta read those psych articles someone posted earlier still. Speaking of which is it just me or is Elliott a really lovely psychologist? Maybe it's just the writing of those scenes but all he does is listen to what Melfi says and then brings up Tony Soprano in literally every session (or mocks him/dissaproves of his treatment if Melfi brings him up). I guess there's no point in delving into Melfi's personal life given the premise of the show, but these scenes felt out of place or at least too repetitive to me.
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Jun 20, 2019 04:44
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I think Tony cares so much about animals and babies because they're not complicated. He knows exactly what they want, how they feel etc. If a baby is sad or hungry, it cries. If it is happy, it laughs. Babies and dogs also don't understand or see any underlying contradictions or hypocrisy, they take what you're offering them at face value, so Tony can be the big, beloved figure in their life without them ever questioning him or forcing him to confront his own bullshit. I'd say Tony's biggest thing is his narcissism, he thinks/expects the entire world to revolve around him. Even in scenarios when he appears to be humble/accepting of his own mortality and the greater importance of a future generation, it feels more demonstrative of,"Look at me and how unselfish I am being!"
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Jun 20, 2019 05:24
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Spot on as always with the narcicism trait. I don't think he's ever shown a single instance of being legitimately humble. Sometimes he has to give in to New York but it's only out of neccesity and clearly bothers him to do so, increasingly more once Johnny is out of the picture. In nearly every episode he gets himself into situations as a result of his petty, narcicistic attitude that results in poor decision making. One of the worst was when he decides to beat up his driver who clearly can't retaliate much without being murdered, just to show his strength to the crew after having surgery.
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Jun 20, 2019 13:49
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Tony wants to convince himself he isn't a bad person who is the apotheosis of everything he ostensibly proclaims to hate, so he makes a big deal out of caring for vulnerable creatures like animals and babies because it's so obviously selfless to give to these things. It's when he doesn't have these things around to distract and lie to himself he's left with just the reality of his situation and gives him panic attacks/depressive episodes.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:26
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hi liter posted:Tony wants to convince himself he isn't a bad person who is the apotheosis of everything he ostensibly proclaims to hate, so he makes a big deal out of caring for vulnerable creatures like animals and babies because it's so obviously selfless to give to these things. It's when he doesn't have these things around to distract and lie to himself he's left with just the reality of his situation and gives him panic attacks/depressive episodes. I'm not sure that's it but it's an interesting take. In my experience, depressed people and those with psychiatric issues tend to find comfort in animals most especially. Not entirely sure why that's true but my gut tells me it has something to do with the person seeing the animal as inherently inferior on some level. Also, the level of communication with them never reaches anything deep or challenging. Their behavior might be challenging but they're never going to ask you a tough question, call you out on your bullshit or challenge your honesty. They'll mostly love you for you are and accept you as is, which feeds into...something. Affirmation maybe? Having a hard time verbalizing it but my mom, who was bipolar and seemed to hate everyone, LOVED animals and cats in particular.
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Jun 20, 2019 23:55
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Animals are something you can project almost anything on and they can’t really disappoint you or contradict you. Like the duck family. They where the perfect family unit who didn’t squabble or backstab each other.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:04
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I found this site that breaks down the ending pretty well. It's pretty old. https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/39-2/ Something I never paid much mind before in the final scene was the inclusion of the bell chiming as each customer walks in to Holsten's. Is it a "for whom the bell tolls" reference? edit: also found a podcast called "Poda-Bing" . The episode I tired was pretty good https://podabing.show/ BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 15:49
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That wordpress article is super thorough. Honestly? I don't think the ending worked that well to convey what Chase seemed to want to convey given how much confusion there was over it. It was great at keeping people talking about the show tho.
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Jun 21, 2019 18:39
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No Wave posted:That wordpress article is super thorough. Honestly? I don't think the ending worked that well to convey what Chase seemed to want to convey given how much confusion there was over it. It was great at keeping people talking about the show tho. The mechanics of it aside, I do like the philosophy Chase had going into it, i.e. the idea that the audience shouldn't be allowed to have this "finally Tony gets his comeuppance" moment because so much of the fan interest surrounding the show had been rooting for Tony and living vicariously through him. I think to give people that cheap release of seeing Tony finally get whacked would've been a mistake and the non-definitive ending is better for the long-term legacy of the show.
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Jun 21, 2019 19:28
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Yeah...reading it all and absorbing what Chase has said over the years, he had kind of backed himself into a corner of sorts and I'd disagree that the ending didn't work, solely on the basis of how much conversation and debate it generated even now. Over time, I'd say it succeeded and that he accomplished what he set out to do. I kind of think the mainstream success of the show boxed him in to a degree, where he had casual fans of pop culture watching it, a lot of whom did so just to witness The Weekly Whackening and hold parties where they placed bets on who would die and poo poo like that. A bloodbath at Holsten's would have been cheap, unfulfilling and gratuitous. Plus he gave us that in "The Blue Comet" episode anyway. I wasn't the only one who thought their cable went out that night and, if you think of what Chase did in those terms, that's about as close as you can get to make an avid TV watcher feel like they suddenly died. Cut off their cable. I was confused for a while too but have revisited the show a few times, knowing how it ends, and I've e-watched that ending several times. IMO, we're clearly shown dying death from Tony's POV and I'm gently caress all if I can think of any other rational way to really read it. I mean, why else revisit Bobby's speculation about what death is like and then later cite Jerry's assassination in later interviews in reference to what we saw? Why linger on that one Member's Only customer? Callbacks to "you never hear it coming" and Godfather Part One? Tolling the bell? Chase said "it's all right there" and told us he had the ending figured out ahead of time then redid a corny ending where Tony drives "into the light" through the Holland Tunnel because it was too hackneyed.. It really is all right there and watching earlier episodes carefully confirms it all. The way he pulled it off was just more challenging and unconventional than we are used to. The opposite of Scarface, Goodfellas, The Godfather, Casino or Taxi Driver. Or even Public Enemy, which we've seen used as a framing device. No blaze of glory. No cinematic opera with a panned camera. Nothing. Black. I think the "bell" was tolling in that then scene and that it was an intentional use of sound. I think it's loving brilliant and god bless David Chase for challenging me like that. That "Pod-a-Bing" podcast I posted is solid too, BTW. They're not annoying or shrill and they get into details the same way Jerusalem does. Meaning intelligently. I say check it out for Sopranos junkies. Basebf555 posted:The mechanics of it aside, I do like the philosophy Chase had going into it, i.e. the idea that the audience shouldn't be allowed to have this "finally Tony gets his comeuppance" moment because so much of the fan interest surrounding the show had been rooting for Tony and living vicariously through him. I think to give people that cheap release of seeing Tony finally get whacked would've been a mistake and the non-definitive ending is better for the long-term legacy of the show. Right, and he seems to be going out of his way to tell us that and what his intentions were. "Don't Stop Believing". And, in his interviews, he's pretty candid about his philosophy about religion, life, the afterlife and what it all means. The mot interesting thing I got from that article is that, like millions of others, I swore up and down that I saw Meadow enter that diner. Amazing direction. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 23:21
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Does anyone ever mention Tony B or ask what happened to him in s6 or is he just forgotten?
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Jun 22, 2019 16:36
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banned from Starbucks posted:Does anyone ever mention Tony B or ask what happened to him in s6 or is he just forgotten? Nah, he's remembered. Mostly by Phil when somebody bringing him up puts an end to a sit down between Phil and Tony.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:59
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Dawgstar posted:Nah, he's remembered. Mostly by Phil when somebody bringing him up puts an end to a sit down between Phil and Tony. "your brother, whatever happened there..."
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Jun 22, 2019 18:17
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Still watching along with Jersulaem's posts. I am really missing the overarching storyline in the third season. Moments like Gigi dying on the toilet really make it feel like it is going all over the place. Speaking of which, did anyone else notice how Veto was straight over taking his pulse while the others stayed at the doorway looking on in horror? Possible I am reading too much into things given what we know happens with Veto later on. Something else that I find markedly different in the third season is how much darker everything is. I mean in terms of actual lighting. Another goon mentioned a while back about how this gets taken to extremes in the final couple of seasons when you probably will need to adjust the colour settings on your TV to be able to see any of the sets. In this third season though there is already a marked change and it also seems to have been filmed in late autumn/winter so the outdoor scenes look quite grim. Something I really loved about the first two seasons was how vivid and colourful everything was - thinking of some of the scenes in College, Isabella and Commendatori. So many sunny scenes filmed on neighbourhoods had the hum of lawnmowers in the background. It seemed like a lot of effort went into making the first couple of seasons very aesthetically pleasing and I don't think we get so much of that going forward.
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Jun 22, 2019 20:21
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