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Gorelab posted:I'm still not sure how ending dynastic rule actually makes things better since now all the other houses have a chance at the throne when he's dead. The idea being that the next king is elected. This would of course turn into bloc politics where one big lord would make all the weaker lords vote for him or his candidate to be king.
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Jun 17, 2019 18:59
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Katt posted:The idea being that the next king is elected. This would of course turn into bloc politics where one big lord would make all the weaker lords vote for him or his candidate to be king. Well, yeah, but in general elective monarchy at least in the real world wasn't an improvement, and often was worse since the monarchy doesn't have any centralized power.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:03
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chaosapiant posted:I feel like Bran was way more important to the plot before the Night King was shanked. After that, he's just kind of a literal know-it-all who knows tons of things that most people don't care about. i've been broken by esperterra and am watching some pjakes vids and the ones I'm watching now he talks about how in a ton of GRRMs scifi writing he writes about collective minds that manipulate humans to achieve their own ends and point out that Bran is a parallel to this. The Weirwoods are really a collective consciousness of children of the forest, who have every reason to hate humans, and Bran could very well be controlled by them and part of a larger plan to get some revenge on mankind. so it's possible "bran becomes king" was in his notes, but in the GRRM version Bran is basically there to do as much harm as possible to humanity via his role as king. An independent North could keep all sorts of conflicts rolling along that should have been squashed which is probably what the children want.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:05
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Gorelab posted:Well, yeah, but in general elective monarchy at least in the real world wasn't an improvement, and often was worse since the monarchy doesn't have any centralized power. The best system was probably the Ottoman one where they just killed off all the heirs that wasn't going to become the "king" No stray cousins with any claims on the throne, just the one heir. Yeah it was brutal but it certainly saved tens of thousands of lives in civil strife that racked other countries when a king died.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:11
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jit bull transpile posted:i've been broken by esperterra and am watching some pjakes vids and the ones I'm watching now he talks about how in a ton of GRRMs scifi writing he writes about collective minds that manipulate humans to achieve their own ends and point out that Bran is a parallel to this. The Weirwoods are really a collective consciousness of children of the forest, who have every reason to hate humans, and Bran could very well be controlled by them and part of a larger plan to get some revenge on mankind. so it's possible "bran becomes king" was in his notes, but in the GRRM version Bran is basically there to do as much harm as possible to humanity via his role as king. An independent North could keep all sorts of conflicts rolling along that should have been squashed which is probably what the children want. I don't believe that. If the Children of the Forest want death to humans that badly, they'd have just let the White Walkers do their thing instead of try to stop them. Unless that doesn't happen in the books, so we'll see?
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Jun 17, 2019 19:16
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Gorelab posted:I'm still not sure how ending dynastic rule actually makes things better since now all the other houses have a chance at the throne when he's dead. It's a wheel man like a wheel of time and when you break it you need someone who knows how all this time wheeling is going to end and really Bran is the only person who ever will know, and he's fictional 
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Jun 17, 2019 19:25
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I think another poster already mentioned/alluded to this, but my sorta expectation for the end of the books is that the seven kingdoms will become seven actual independent kingdoms because anyone left with a decent claim and support to rule will be dead and buried.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:30
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chaosapiant posted:Yea, I agree with you about Jon. He makes too much sense as King to not pick him and the only reason not to is to subvert expectation without actually needing to justify it. I also wish they didn't call him Bran the Broken. Why not "Bran the Raven" or "Bran Three-Eyes"? Bran the Broken is not a name that will inspire fear or respect from potential foreign invaders. Or local ones. In Norway we had a king called Inge the Hunchback.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:44
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chaosapiant posted:I think another poster already mentioned/alluded to this, but my sorta expectation for the end of the books is that the seven kingdoms will become seven actual independent kingdoms because anyone left with a decent claim and support to rule will be dead and buried. I knew for a fact that Brienne had the most plot armor of any non-Stark and was going to get elected but in the end they went with a guy She has a knighthood now damnit! And much like Hillary she likes to wander around in the forests
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Jun 17, 2019 19:53
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chaosapiant posted:I think another poster already mentioned/alluded to this, but my sorta expectation for the end of the books is that the seven kingdoms will become seven actual independent kingdoms because anyone left with a decent claim and support to rule will be dead and buried. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad end if the book ended with that and someone in Volantis or Daario looking at a map and saying "time to unite the Seven Kingdoms".
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Jun 17, 2019 19:54
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At the very least we have another Targ in the books (pretty sure he’s not a phony) so it’ll be neat to see where that goes.
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Jun 17, 2019 20:32
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Literally every character in the room had a better story than Bran.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:34
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Literally every character in the room had a better story than Bran. Especially unnamed dornish prince
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Jun 18, 2019 01:44
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TK-42-1 posted:Especially unnamed dornish prince That dude was handsome as gently caress. Like, too handsome to be king. No, Bran was the only choice. Good ol' Bran the Broken, as we all came to know and love him over the past 8 seasons. He sat under a tree that one time, you know. Fuckin' awesome story. Best in the show. I think in the books FAegon is going to be Dany's big bad. Faegon takes King's Landing and all the people love him and Dany's just some random foreign Targ woman trying to ruin their new awesome way of life and none of them believe there were/are zombies coming. She burns them all because she's a spoiled teenager who didn't get her way this one time.
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Jun 18, 2019 05:03
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chaosapiant posted:I don't believe that. If the Children of the Forest want death to humans that badly, they'd have just let the White Walkers do their thing instead of try to stop them. Unless that doesn't happen in the books, so we'll see? Except the white walkers also want to kill the children so that plan kinda sucks for them and gets them nothing. Puppet mastering Bran is safer for them and still accomplishes their goal of loving up humanity.
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Jun 18, 2019 11:44
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Humanity doesn't need the supernatural intervention of the Children to engage in foolish wars and slaughter each other for, at best, questionable reasons. So if the Children's master plan was to manipulate a human king into ruling in a manner that causes civil unrest and leads to further wars, well, they may have well be using their magic to force fish to swim.
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Jun 18, 2019 16:08
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banned from Starbucks posted:Except the white walkers also want to kill the children so that plan kinda sucks for them and gets them nothing. Puppet mastering Bran is safer for them and still accomplishes their goal of loving up humanity. This is probably true, but I never saw the White Walkers/Others as being against the CoF. They'll gladly run over them to reach their goal, which is to murder the three-eyed raven. But yea, I don't see the CoF in general being super concerned about humans at this point more than their own survival/safety. Perhaps one day Georgie will enlighten us! Edit for words: In regards to Benjen/Coldhands, I'd like to think that even though GRRM dismissed that theory, he could probably say Coldhands isn't Benjen without lying, and it still be true. It'd be like saying "Lady Stoneheart is not Catelyn Stark" and argued that the differences in their nature are enough to argue they are different people. Edit for even more words: Has there ever been any "proof" that Jaquen is not Syrio Forel? I'll always believe they are one and the same. Even if Georgie Boy says "they are different people" he'd not be lying because technically both Jaquen and Syrio are "no one". chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 16:28
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chaosapiant posted:Edit for even more words: Has there ever been any "proof" that Jaquen is not Syrio Forel? I'll always believe they are one and the same. Even if Georgie Boy says "they are different people" he'd not be lying because technically both Jaquen and Syrio are "no one". Why would they be the same person?
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Jun 18, 2019 16:39
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chaosapiant posted:
Meryn Trant being alive after their fight?
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Jun 18, 2019 16:44
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pseudanonymous posted:Why would they be the same person? Never saw Syrio die. Presumably he’d have been put in the black cells, where Jaquen came from. Both Braavosi. Both believe in the “one god; god of death.” Seems like a lot of coincidences and it makes once they’d keep Syrio alive to interrogate on where Arya went and it’d be nothing for him to change his face to escape with the Night’s Watch.
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Jun 18, 2019 18:56
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chaosapiant posted:Never saw Syrio die. Presumably he’d have been put in the black cells, where Jaquen came from. Both Braavosi. Both believe in the “one god; god of death.” Seems like a lot of coincidences and it makes once they’d keep Syrio alive to interrogate on where Arya went and it’d be nothing for him to change his face to escape with the Night’s Watch. So he was like on a ten-year mission to become a sword guy in order to train Arya, literally started doing the background work for the role before she was born?
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Jun 18, 2019 19:02
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TK-42-1 posted:Especially unnamed dornish prince Men call him Darkstar, and he is of the night.
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Jun 18, 2019 19:09
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pseudanonymous posted:So he was like on a ten-year mission to become a sword guy in order to train Arya, literally started doing the background work for the role before she was born? syrio wasn't a faceless man, but of course a faceless man would go into ten years of deep cover in order to teach introductory swordplay and braavosi theology to some lord's daughter. that's what separates the faceless men from the random goon that joffrey hired to kill bran: the faceless men will go to insane extents to get the job done
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Jun 18, 2019 19:11
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Fhate posted:Humanity doesn't need the supernatural intervention of the Children to engage in foolish wars and slaughter each other for, at best, questionable reasons. So if the Children's master plan was to manipulate a human king into ruling in a manner that causes civil unrest and leads to further wars, well, they may have well be using their magic to force fish to swim. To be fair, timing the foolish wars properly is probably important.
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Jun 19, 2019 05:16
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Alhazred posted:In Norway we had a king called Inge the Hunchback. To be perfectly fair about it though that was during Norway's civil war era* when any idiot could show up with some dumb kid, baby or teenager, claim that he was a long lost son of the old king and raise an army in his name. *Read about this, it was a truly impressive shitshow. It primarily came about because Norway had pretty much no clear succession principle and no real laws concerning who could be a king, or how many kings there could be, just that people agreed you had to be related to a previous king, preferably being his son, with legitimate birth being of no great importance. e: On a side note, the Franks often had a habit of naming kings for their vices and flaws than anything else, so you get kings with unflattering titles like "the Bald" and "the Fat" among others. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 06:49
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pseudanonymous posted:So he was like on a ten-year mission to become a sword guy in order to train Arya, literally started doing the background work for the role before she was born? More likely if Syrio was a faceless man, he used being Aryas dancing master as a cover to get into the red keep. My newest theory is that he was sent to kill the “original” Jaquen and then took his face in the black cells. He allowed himself to be captured to complete his mission and allowed himself to take the black to escape suspicion. Very possible in this scenario that either the original Jaquen was killed and his face stolen and Rorge and Biter saw it and then became afraid of him. Or simply that the original Jaquen was already someone who was a criminal by reputation and Rorge/Biter thought he was still the original Jaquen. Even if GRRM and the show runners say without doubt that “no, Syrio is dead”, it would still be true were he a faceless man. It’s also possible that it’s just a red herring. But it’s a cool/fun thing to theorize about because afaik there is certainly no proof that the theory is false. It also makes sense that Meryn Trant wouldn’t have killed Jaquen if his mission was to capture Arya. He’d be someone worth questioning.
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Jun 19, 2019 07:35
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think in the books FAegon is going to be Dany's big bad. Faegon takes King's Landing and all the people love him and Dany's just some random foreign Targ woman trying to ruin their new awesome way of life and none of them believe there were/are zombies coming. She burns them all because she's a spoiled teenager who didn't get her way this one time. i think we can pretty much assume something like this book cersei ain't cut out to be a serious rival to Dany, and there's nobody else around who'd really fit
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Jun 19, 2019 07:55
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Something I haven't really thought about. Did Gurm decide to use ravens instead of homing pigeons for a reason beyond "lol it's fantasy"?
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Jun 19, 2019 17:50
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The idea that Faegon will become Dany's foe is really good, I like it! I do think that no matter how the books differ, Jon will still fall in love with/kill Dany. I thought this long before the show was a thing simply because it parallels the legend behind Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa. I hope that the books change the order in which the ending is resolved from the show. I still think the Night King should be a much greater threat to Westeros than loving Cersei Lannister, the dumb poo poo whose every move causes ruin in her house and she's too stupid/up her own rear end to see it. No one that dumb should've survived this long in "The Game of Thrones." I'd even be cool with Cersei siding with Dany to remove Faegon from power and/or help with the fight against the long night. I ALSO think that book Faegon was rolled into Jon Snow in some sense, in that Jon Snow's real name is probably just Jon Snow, because why would Rhaegar give two kids the same exact name? OR Jon Snow is a red herring and Faegon will actually be The Prince Who Was Promised.
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Jun 19, 2019 18:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:Something I haven't really thought about. Did Gurm decide to use ravens instead of homing pigeons for a reason beyond "lol it's fantasy"? Pigeons are considered pests, not harbingers of Dark Portents
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Jun 19, 2019 18:02
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Did we ever figure out if they're just homing ravens or if they're magically intelligent animals that you can tell to fly to a specific castle or w/e?
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Jun 19, 2019 18:13
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Vanadium posted:Did we ever figure out if they're just homing ravens or if they're magically intelligent animals that you can tell to fly to a specific castle or w/e? I was watching a PJakes video covering the Winds of Winter preview chapters where he claims it has the first and only mention of how this works, and basically most ravens return to one castle, a handful of rare ravens fly between 2, and "once in a century" ravens can fly between multiple castles. It's the Theon chapter if that matters.
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Jun 19, 2019 18:39
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One scene I really liked in the show is when Samwell first arrives in Oldtowne and sees the Citadel. You can see white ravens flying from the top of the tower to signal Winter. I liked this because it’s just kinda there in the background and no one in that scene comments on it. I like poo poo like that.
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Jun 19, 2019 18:43
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On the Fist of the First Men Sam has different cages for the ravens belonging to different keeps.
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Jun 19, 2019 19:36
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tbh most of westeros should just use gendry instead of ravens it would be must faster
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Jun 19, 2019 19:46
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kalvanoo posted:tbh most of westeros should just use gendry instead of ravens it would be must faster Didn't it take him like 2 years to get from Dragonstone to Kings landing in a rowing boat?
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Jun 19, 2019 20:08
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chaosapiant posted:One scene I really liked in the show is when Samwell first arrives in Oldtowne and sees the Citadel. You can see white ravens flying from the top of the tower to signal Winter. I liked this because it’s just kinda there in the background and no one in that scene comments on it. I like poo poo like that.
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Jun 19, 2019 20:32
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Arcsquad12 posted:Something I haven't really thought about. Did Gurm decide to use ravens instead of homing pigeons for a reason beyond "lol it's fantasy"? There was a line somewhere in there about how some king tried to replace the ravens with doves, but the ravens are bigger and less tempting of a target for some random hawk, so the change didn't stick.
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Jun 19, 2019 20:38
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Good ball by Dixon posted:Yeah, it's a cool idea that they have a bunch of single use ravens transported to oldtown from all over the kingdom. I just assumed Oldtowne bred and trained them. 
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Jun 19, 2019 20:40
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Guy A. Person posted:I was watching a PJakes video covering the Winds of Winter preview chapters where he claims it has the first and only mention of how this works, and basically most ravens return to one castle, a handful of rare ravens fly between 2, and "once in a century" ravens can fly between multiple castles. a cool thing about this is it that if ravens are this limited (in that you need more and more ravens whenever you add a communications channel) it helps the power structure stay intact like, all the capitals and major strongholds have a big tower full of ravens that go pretty much everywhere then Medium Dicked Regional Lord probably has ravens that go to his lord paramount, his immediate neighbors, and maybe 1-2 other places if he does a lot of trade with them or has intermarried recently then Lord Dipshit from Mud Keep probably only has a raven that goes to his immediate liege, if that, and all of the landed knights and minor village potentates are lacking ravens entirely hard to plan a successful rebellion against your liege lord if he's got a huge communications advantage over you, by virtue of being able to afford to maintain 30 ravens to your 5 Katt posted:Didn't it take him like 2 years to get from Dragonstone to Kings landing in a rowing boat? my dude have you ever tried running across the sea doing it in 2 years is impressive imo
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Jun 19, 2019 21:05
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