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Man I'm going for the 'own 1001 provinces' achievement and it's like pulling teeth. Blobbing is so tedious, even as mega Russia with 10 years to go and 90 provinces short.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:29
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Why isn't Yugoslavia formable? It's not that much later than Italy and Germany.
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Jun 18, 2019 17:41
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Nosfereefer posted:Why isn't Yugoslavia formable? It's not that much later than Italy and Germany. Probably because it's on the far side of the Great War. It's more of a Victoria nation than a Europa one.
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Jun 18, 2019 17:59
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Gort posted:Probably because it's on the far side of the Great War. It's more of a Victoria nation than a Europa one.
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Jun 18, 2019 18:12
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Isnt it also an artificial construct made by the winners of the Great War to try to help stabilize the region/fill the vacuum left by the decision (by these winners) to dissolve Austria-Hungary rather than something that was likely to happen naturally like Germany and Italy? That wasn't even the dumbest thing they did in that peace treaty either. Probably not even close.
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Jun 18, 2019 18:22
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Germany and Italy didn’t happen naturally, they were both the result of sustained periods of nation-building and military and political protagonism, as well as international consensus. Yugoslavia was no more artificial than these. I think that the biggest difference is that the German and Italian states were relatively extremely effective at quelling cultural and religious differences within their territory — but then, the differences they had to work with were a good bit smaller than those in the Balkans. It was a more fragmented state in a more precarious geopolitical and economic position, thanks to which its fragmentation grew more severe and eventually made its existence impossible. I think it would be fairly anachronistic in this game though. There were some very vague precursors to Yugoslav nationalism in this time period — see the Illyrian movement — but even that was essentially a Croatian push for greater recognition within the Austro-Hungarian political system, and even that system isn’t in this game’s time frame at all. skasion fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 18:37
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I did some cursory reading up on it and the pan-south-slavist Illyrian movement in Croatia starts in the 1830s, so just after the end of the game, even if it was (as previously mentioned) very much a reaction to Austro-Hungarian internal politics. Since German and Italian unification also happened after the end of the game, I think it wouldn't be so bad to have Illyria as an ahistorical formable nation for the Balkans, and Illyria is more period-appropriate name than Yugoslavia. It would be fun to have a formable to work towards in that region, and it's not like the game doesn't have old/ahistorical formables like Ruthenia and Scandinavia in already to represent what-if scenarios. I think in the same way that the Italian flag in EU4 is the earlier flag used by the Napoleonic client state because it's closer to the era of the game, Illyria would probably be a better tag for a unified South Slavic formable rather than Yugoslavia, because it's the older and more period-appropriate strain of the same pan-nationalist idea.
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Jun 19, 2019 10:49
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skasion posted:Germany and Italy didn’t happen naturally, How do you define natural vs artificial states? All states are social constructs.
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Jun 19, 2019 11:13
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Wafflecopper posted:How do you define natural vs artificial states? All states are social constructs. That’s my point. There’s no cause to describe Yugoslavia as an “artificial construct” because every state is artificial. The idea that Germany and Italy were more valid or natural in some sense is one I don’t buy.
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Jun 19, 2019 11:17
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Oh right my bad for misunderstanding your post
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Jun 19, 2019 11:22
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When I said "artificial construct" I meant in terms of "doesnt have a shared language" like many modern states do (like Italy and Germany; I know everyone in France speaking French as we know is a pretty recent phenomenon). Italy also has the whole "The Lands south of the Alps" thing going, and Germany has the HRE thing going; a Balkan state where Yugslavia is has neither of those kinds of things going on/history to look back to. I understand the philosophical sense of "All states are artificial constructs" though.
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 13:29
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Germany also did the stamping out of regional languages thing — modern standard German wasn’t commonly spoken in most of the future Germany until like, 1800 at earliest. Idk about how it went in Italy but when I went to Venice I couldn’t understand jack poo poo, so I’m pretty sure it’s the same story there.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:54
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Is there any online directory for custom-made scenarios / non-worthless CK2 ports to EU4? I'm running a casual sunday game group, but we're all getting kind of bored of the 1444-scenario.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:04
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Retarded Goatee posted:Is there any online directory for custom-made scenarios / non-worthless CK2 ports to EU4? I'm running a casual sunday game group, but we're all getting kind of bored of the 1444-scenario. It is a goon-made shattered world mod with a few fixes to common problems with the game (estates coming pre-landed, merc spam, some other minor stuff).
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Jun 19, 2019 14:50
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Holy balls, tried a start as Sweden and it's rougher than I expected. Most of my provinces are crap, no countries of note wanted to support my independence ('don't have access' somehow being a factor). Managed to slug it out with just teutonics helping me, but it required taking 3 loans, and my economy is already crap. Well, time to start beating up on Novgorod, right? Oh wait, they remembered to make allies this time around, with Lithuania and Brandenburg. Time for a restart. Any obvious strat I'm missing?
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Jun 19, 2019 15:07
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Develop your copper mine
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Jun 19, 2019 15:12
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Sephyr posted:Holy balls, tried a start as Sweden and it's rougher than I expected. You want to take a bunch of the good land from them in the Independence war and come back for them later for more. Once you unite Scandinavia, you should have a lot more power to throw around. To that end, it's pretty helpful if Denmark gets some useful rivals that'll support your independence. I'd also like to note that 3 loans is pretty much nothing, and you should probably keep fighting on until you can grab more from the Danes. You should also probably leave Novgorod alone, unless you want to slug it out with Muscovy early.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:13
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AnoHito posted:You want to take a bunch of the good land from them in the Independence war and come back for them later for more. Once you unite Scandinavia, you should have a lot more power to throw around. To that end, it's pretty helpful if Denmark gets some useful rivals that'll support your independence. I'd also like to note that 3 loans is pretty much nothing, and you should probably keep fighting on until you can grab more from the Danes. Hmm. I have been told I play way too conservatively (having 1 loan usually scares the poo poo out of me). And I thought taking some Novgorod land would help both make the land path to the Baltics easier for both conquest and management, as well as keeping Muscovy from turning into Russia. I'll try again and hope for better allies. Hopefully the british and their fleet so I can have a stab at sieging Sjaelland.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:25
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Sephyr posted:Hmm. I have been told I play way too conservatively (having 1 loan usually scares the poo poo out of me).
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Jun 19, 2019 15:27
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skasion posted:Develop your copper mine The production bonus in Dalaskogen is only a flat amount added to goods produced, so developing there isn't that much better than anywhere else. It's also in a forest province so you're paying 10 extra mana every time you develop. For each extra development, you only get about 0.9 extra ducats per year, plus a little extra trade income that mostly goes to other nations including Denmark. I'd much rather develop on Stockholm because it's cheaper and in a better location for spreading institutions. Plus you get an event that adds a bunch of development in Stockholm, so developing there early makes those free points more valuable.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:45
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Yuo should developers Finland and culture shift to Finnish : DDDDD
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Jun 19, 2019 16:31
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I'm a lil mad there is no Finnish mission tree granting them their claims from the time of the Finno-Korean Hyperwar
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Jun 19, 2019 17:15
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Has there been any word on when M&T 3.0 will be out?
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Jun 20, 2019 00:25
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skasion posted:Germany also did the stamping out of regional languages thing — modern standard German wasn’t commonly spoken in most of the future Germany until like, 1800 at earliest. Idk about how it went in Italy but when I went to Venice I couldn’t understand jack poo poo, so I’m pretty sure it’s the same story there. Less ‘stamping out’ and more ‘put aside to allow for coherent communication with anyone outside our village/county/region”. Which, by the way, is still true today. German dialects are a beast of their own and many people still identify proudly with their dialects.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:19
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Why is the Hwan empire not a formable?
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Jun 20, 2019 01:43
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Woo, Sweden game is finally on. Got Lithuania and england to help me throw off the yoke of Danish oppression, installed a beast of a king (6/4/5, extra legitimacy, reduced AE) with a kickass heir. Snatched Neva and some other tasties, and now most of Livonia, so my economy is getting into gear. Problem is, Lithuania was then brought into the Commonwealth, and just as I was about to ally the juiced poles Muscovy tore into them and split them up, leaving me with no strong ally in the continent. I allied Bohemia as a stopgap, hoping they can help me eat more baltic real estate while they feed on easy polish land. Do you get less AE for feeding HRE provinces to a vassal that is also a member of the HRE? Just...asking for a friend.
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Jun 20, 2019 02:16
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Groogy posted:Nah Greater Slovakia is the thing. Mazovia or bust for that Legendarywealth
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Jun 20, 2019 02:20
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It's kinda dumb that even though I'm at 400% overextension and my country has dozens of rebel stacks running around, my stability is still at +3 pretty much forever. I guess the only way to get the Revolution "disaster" and get to play a Revolutionary Republic is by tanking stability to make the disaster tick, huh?
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Jun 20, 2019 02:31
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So I am really starting to ‘get’ this game and enjoying it, what with the politics and all. I hate the combat and find dog-piling to be a problem, but it is fun regardless. I apparently overdeveloped my lands and sacrificed my tech—is there any way to recover from that? I am like 3 techs behind in military compared to everyone, making any action tough. Also, how do you compare this to CK2? I own that, too but haven’t yet jumped into it.
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Jun 20, 2019 02:40
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dialhforhero posted:So I am really starting to ‘get’ this game and enjoying it, what with the politics and all. I hate the combat and find dog-piling to be a problem, but it is fun regardless. You will be able to purchase techs more cheaply the further you are behind. But 3 mil techs back is a HUGE disadvantage if you're fighting anyone of similar size, so get those military points ASAP! Development can be good for a small country to increase income, but it shouldn't be used too heavily for exactly this reason. I prefer to develop only when I have a surplus of monarch points and nothing to spend them on, or to deliberately develop one province a bunch to create an institution in the province. (see https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Institutions#Adopting_institutions) EU4 and CK2 have a certain alt-history DNA in common. But CK2 is really a drama about characters with an incidental mapgame to mess around with. Most of the stuff that happens, happens through character traits and events. EU4 by comparison is much more of a map painter, with little attention to internal politics.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:26
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Terrible Opinions posted:Why is the Hwan empire not a formable? it would grant way too many cores to be fair
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Jun 20, 2019 03:32
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not if you have to conquer most/all of them before forming
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Jun 20, 2019 03:34
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How would the House of Sinanju fit in to all this?
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Jun 20, 2019 04:17
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Development can be good for a small country to increase income, but it shouldn't be used too heavily for exactly this reason. I prefer to develop only when I have a surplus of monarch points and nothing to spend them on, or to deliberately develop one province a bunch to create an institution in the province. Yeah, see I ended up investing TONS into development and now I have the highest developed lands by a LONG shot. I'm shooting over 40 in all my states and I looked at my neighbors and they barely break 20.
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Jun 20, 2019 05:24
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Generally speaking, only develop to dump points when you're about to hit cap, or to seed institutions, or occasionally get an age goal if it will let you trigger a golden age. Some harder starts like Byzantium and OPMs and poo poo you wanna develop early to support a decent army but only if you know what you're doing. Mil tech is super super important to keep up on and you don't really want to lag too much on the others either.
Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 05:27
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:When I said "artificial construct" I meant in terms of "doesnt have a shared language" like many modern states do (like Italy and Germany; I know everyone in France speaking French as we know is a pretty recent phenomenon). Italy also has the whole "The Lands south of the Alps" thing going, and Germany has the HRE thing going; a Balkan state where Yugslavia is has neither of those kinds of things going on/history to look back to. I understand the philosophical sense of "All states are artificial constructs" though. The linguistic situation is actually exactly the same as in Germany and Italy. Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin are all mutually intelligible and have been classified as dialects of the same language and as distinct languages, depending on politics, historical context, and individual positions. I think it might actually be less linguistically diverse than Italy or Germany in this regard.
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Jun 20, 2019 12:44
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All I know is that a Badenese German would be pissed to be called a Swabian in this game even though they have their own starting kingdom.
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Jun 20, 2019 13:41
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Red Bones posted:The linguistic situation is actually exactly the same as in Germany and Italy. Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin are all mutually intelligible and have been classified as dialects of the same language and as distinct languages, depending on politics, historical context, and individual positions. I think it might actually be less linguistically diverse than Italy or Germany in this regard. I was going to say that tbf Germany or Italy never had significant minorities speaking Albanian, which is absolutely nothing like south Slavic languages, but when I went to look it up I discovered this is actually not true: there’s been a sizable Albanian group living in southern Italy since EU4-times, some of them actually descended from Skanderbeg’s troops.
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Jun 20, 2019 13:52
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Red Bones posted:The linguistic situation is actually exactly the same as in Germany and Italy. Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin are all mutually intelligible and have been classified as dialects of the same language and as distinct languages, depending on politics, historical context, and individual positions. I think it might actually be less linguistically diverse than Italy or Germany in this regard. skasion posted:I was going to say that tbf Germany or Italy never had significant minorities speaking Albanian, which is absolutely nothing like south Slavic languages, but when I went to look it up I discovered this is actually not true: there’s been a sizable Albanian group living in southern Italy since EU4-times, some of them actually descended from Skanderbeg’s troops.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:15
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Sephyr posted:
Dunno about AE but it's a bad idea anyway as they will more likely than not return them when the emperor asks.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:16
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