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NewMars posted:Lhabians
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Jun 18, 2019 22:38
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Chapter 9: 946 to 950 - Tsenmo Purgyal Gyalyum 'the Benevolent' The following fragments are from the play "Jiarong's Duels at the Jade Gate", a zaju dating from the early 11th century and first attested in a 13th-century anthology of plays and earlier performance art. This work, even in this most incomplete form, demonstrates the complex and contradictory views held by Chinese audiences - or at least the anonymous playwright - about the Jin period and the resurgent Tibetan Empire. The work is obviously designed for a mass audience, due to its flat narrative, lack of dialogue, as well as its focus on elaborate swordplay, scenes of gratuitous violence, and acrobatics. Nevertheless, the works' popularity is such that, while it was never performed at court, it continued to be performed centuries later, and especially after the ends of victorious battles against 'Northern Barbarians'. Though there is little evidence that Gyalyum the Benevolent ever visited the Jin Dynasty beyond the Western Protectorate, this unusual image of her as a not just a semi-savage conqueror adds a further dimension to our understanding of this complex and fascinating figure. The female lead, costumed as Tsenmo Gyalyum, enters, opens: I [using the imperial pronoun], am Tsenmo Gyalyum, also known as Jiarong. I, but the granddaughter and daughter of savages, have risen to the ultimate heights of power. I have set right and unified the lands to the west. I have cast down and destroyed the pretenders to the throne. I have defended the land against the northern barbarians and the southern invaders. I have restored the laws and rites of this kingdom, in a time when all the world seems enveloped in chaos. So I have yet met peace with the world! Ai! The world around is unwell and grieves bitterly, and there is much disorder around. Yet my life is not yet accomplished; further glory still awaits me. [Aria, Xianlü mode:] I must consult the Book of Changes and the Six Secret Teachings: And apprehend the principles of heaven. I understand unseen mystery; I anticipate the meeting of dragon and tiger. I shall strike out for further victories.  [Enter Da-ze-bu, a Tibetan general, who addresses her:] Your imperial majesty, daughter of heaven, you must consider the lands to our east, the Jurchens that have seized the land of the Han. They are at turns tyrants and weak; they sit complacent with the fruits of victory. [Gyaylum mimes out thinking, she holds her chin:] Would I dare attack the fertile lands to the east? Were they stronger, I only might; but as they are weak and divided, I will most certainly. Their people plea for order and peace; the Jurchens have given none. It would be a just thing to supplant them. [She addresses Da-ze-bu.] I will address my most loyal men at a feast tonight; make sure they are ready. [He salutes, and leaves.]  [Set at an elaborate feast. Strange beasts and plants are consumed. Gyalyum stands on a table.] Soldiers! You know I am no learned scholar, and I will not play the poet when glory is again near. You trust in the company I keep and the glory I have brought you, which ten thousand generations shall honor. We shall march out again to the east, against the turmoil and chaos of the Jin, and there we shall have treasure and glory beyond even what Tianzhu has provided. Keep your swords and shields ready; I shall always be at the front beside you. [The soldiers cheer.]  [She gestures at Palkhorre, her heir.] Make sharp my sword! We go on to glory!  [Translators' note: At this point, there is a considerable lacuna in the text, which covers some 25 pages. However, due to surviving stage directions, cast lists, and costuming letters from other anthologies, we can assume that Gyalyum thus duels and defeats four other opponents: Hulubu, Ai-li-jie-sa-nai, San-da-pan the Wicked, and Guan-tu 'of a thousand faces'.]           [Gyalyum appears, exhausted from the last fight. Her armor should be dented, her makeup should be altered to give her a black eye or the appearance of a bloody face. She should act out being wounded, or shuffling from one leg to another. She sits slowly after an extra pulls up a chair and runs off stage. She is alone.] Gyalyum: These duels exhaust me; I feel the hour of the end clawing near. I must lay out my deeds for future chroniclers, I fear my time is soon ended. I will make my conscience clear. I have built my throne upon bloodshed, but it is a light of hope and return to peace in an era of interminable decay. I have outlived most of my family; my father died in battle when he was half my age, my mother, the great Mongol princess, fled for her life; the Purgyals of Guge have all slain each other. No four generations under one roof for me; my nephew and his children are all that remain. That and my dearest Tse. I restore the land of Tibet as I would sweep the dust off a tomb. [She lets out a deep sigh and slouches in her chair.] My time has not yet come to pass out of this world. So long as I can sit on a horse, carry a banner, or draw my sword, I yet fight. For all my life, I shall fight.  [Da-ze-bu approaches. Gyalyum bolts to attention.] Gyalyum: Soldier! What news do you have? Da-ze-bu: Your imperial majesty, daughter of heaven. I, your humble minister, come bearing a message from the Jin commander of the Western Protectorate. He styles himself Hezhenbao and commands a fearsome army, ten thousand strong. He has a message. Gyalyum: Read it to me, faithful soldier. [Da-ze-bu acts out being nervous. He clears his throat and reads in a clear voice.] Da-ze-bu, reading: "Barbarian queen to the west: you have invaded the territory of the great Jin Kingdom and despoiled her people. You have called yourself a bearer of civilization yet you have thrown it all aside by attacking us, the rightful lords of China. You restore nothing, you bring only death. Should I call for the soldiers to return to their barracks, I do not think they would listen to me; their hatred for you is too deep and too righteous to temper. Go home, and end your campaign, you unthinking creature." Gyalyum speaks: How dare he! His name is Hezhenbao, yet he is not a true warrior! He defends nothing! He is a tyrant who would seek to plunder! With my sword, I shall teach him what justice is!  [Another shorter lacuna - we can assume that Hezhenbao and Gyalyum would speak here.] [ENTER actor costumed as a bear. Gyalyum and the bear fight. A trained bear, though desirable, is not necessary for this scene and a costumed actor is enough. This duel should be the longest of all, lasting between ten and fifteen minutes.] Gyalyum: I send you to hell! [She skewers the animal through the head - be careful with the prop swords. Please do not harm the trained bear, as they are expensive and hard to find.] [The Jurchen governor genuflects.] Hezhenbao: Please! Spare my life! Gyalyum: Spare you? You, perhaps, but not your works. [She turns to him, sword raised.] You think of me as a savage, then I shall play the savage. You show me any enemy, and I shall strike them down. You say I am not the cultured gentlewoman or the noble lady, that is true! But while others toy with ink brush and paper, I write my calligraphy with my sword! [Her men storm the yamen of the Jin. The building burns. Jurchens run out and flee, wearing furs with rank badges crudely sewn on.] Behold my works again, false leaders and usurpers. I will let you live and flee to Shu, if only to see the destruction your greed has forced me to bring upon you. I command the mandate of heaven, and I am the instrument of heaven's will. With my mighty arm, I have halted the wheel of fate. I am the destroyer of false kings and petty tyrants! I have seen the tumult of battle, the cries of horses and the storms of arrows, I have seen limbs tossed through to heaven, I have seen my horsemen charge the foe, fearing no death, dying their lances with the blood of the heathen! Look upon the conqueror of kings! [Her men cheer and carry her on their shoulders. Exit all.]  [Return to Lhasa. Gyalyum, her face painted red, enters on a chariot pulled by Jurchen captives. A crowd of Tibetans plays a raucous score with brass instruments and drums. Acrobats do somersaults. One or two should faint out of excitement. Tse appears, in the ornate robes of her holy station, Gyalyum should bow magnanimously and kiss her hand. Gyalyum then whispers something into Tse's ear, the audience should not be able to hear or understand it. Then the celebrations should die down, the soldiers and revelers should file off the stage, leaving Gyalyum alone.] Gyalyum: This last great war has ended. My people have been raised from the despair of barbarism to a world of civilization and enlightenment. But what remains for me now? What life is after for me, and what judgment shall the gods suffer upon my life? Petals fall from the trees and soon die. What if there is nothing after, but grey dust and the silence of stone tombs. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 23:16
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That was amazing.  What are future rulers even going to do? Lacquer the city walls?
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Jun 18, 2019 23:43
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Sop when is she getting the live forever event? That's the only way this can pan out at this point.
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Jun 18, 2019 23:47
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I hope the great Warrior Queen finds some adequate disciples to bestow her own martial wisdom and experience. Alternatively Tse bestows her knowledge of diplomacy to a devout young scholar. Edit: The biggest shame is that they didn't adopt a child or more and teach them both the Queen's martial skill and the High Priestess's diplomatic skill Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 23:50
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Our warrior empress is going to spend her whole life looking for a worthy opponent, only to face disappointment after disappointment.
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Jun 19, 2019 00:35
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Well, you know what they say after you become the undisputed Empress of the Himalayas. It's all downhill from here.
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Jun 19, 2019 00:44
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Palkhorre has some big shoes to fill.
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Jun 19, 2019 00:51
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And that is a second bloodline we aren’t passing on. Shame, but it does help set our glorious empress apart even more
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Jun 19, 2019 00:52
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We killed the secret bear!
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Jun 19, 2019 01:00
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Freudian posted:Well, you know what they say after you become the undisputed Empress of the Himalayas. 
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Jun 19, 2019 01:02
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What did I tell you? Now imagine doing all this with that weak-rear end sub-eighty Personal Combat Score. You wouldn't have made past the first duel.
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Jun 19, 2019 01:06
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What made the Governor think a bear was his best warrior?
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Jun 19, 2019 01:10
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:What made the Governor think a bear was his best warrior? He needed someone to fight the bar-bear-ian queen.
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Jun 19, 2019 01:22
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:What made the Governor think a bear was his best warrior? Probably a stealthy insult. Send a beast to kill a beast, and all that.
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Jun 19, 2019 01:26
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"Purgyal Gyalyum Beats Up Everyone"
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Jun 19, 2019 01:34
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An Annoying English Historian Whose Name Rhymes With Turgidson:Now now, all of these supposed "duels" were really just battles with the Jurchens that the revived Tibetan empire won. The Empress probably wasn't even at the site of the battle, given that she'd be well into her seventies at this point AND a woman. Next you'll be telling me you believe that utter poppycock about her and Pope Tse being lovers. (Enter The Spirit of Gyalyum, lightning crashes, and exeunt The Annoying Historians soul) habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 02:03
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yesss yesss This is all appropriate. Now EVERYONE has been punched.
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Jun 19, 2019 02:50
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You are a great woman on the run I like you fairly well in the mix You can really knock it out You can really wupp a yak's rear end [Chorus] Tsenpo Gyalyum Tsenpo Gyalyum Tsenpo Gyalyum Tsenpo Gyalyum Rock over Lhasa, Rock on Gyantse Balep, the Breakfast of the Champions Negostrike fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 03:58
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I'm aware that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Warrior Lodges are stupid and game-breaking. EDIT Lest this be taken as criticism of the LP itself, I should point out that I am still enjoying the read. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 03:58
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Veryslightlymad posted:I'm aware that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Warrior Lodges are stupid and game-breaking. Still better than Satanists
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Jun 19, 2019 04:09
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Satanists and lodges are fun to do but only really once apiece. The other societies are way less crazy and can just be treated as another tool in the toolbox.
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Jun 19, 2019 05:09
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For someone unfamiliar with this bit of the game: what just happened, in game terms, and what if anything does Tibet/Gyalyum get out of it? (Obviously in story terms it's just the logical next step of Punch Queen punching everyone.)
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Jun 19, 2019 08:09
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Akratic Method posted:For someone unfamiliar with this bit of the game: what just happened, in game terms, and what if anything does Tibet/Gyalyum get out of it? (Obviously in story terms it's just the logical next step of Punch Queen punching everyone.) Warrior lodges, ever century, can go on an rear end kicking adventure to foreign lands. In this case, they chose the western protectorate, which I’ve never actually seen before. You and your merry band go around kicking asses and killing innocent fighters with super high martial and dueling skills, building a grand legend for the ages. Eventually you run out of innocents to kill, and you return victorious. In game terms you get a boatload of prestige, and a cool bloodline. Sadly the bloodline will die with our queen.
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Jun 19, 2019 08:29
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:And that is a second bloodline we aren’t passing on. Shame, but it does help set our glorious empress apart even more Red John posted:Warrior lodges, ever century, can go on an rear end kicking adventure to foreign lands. In this case, they chose the western protectorate, which I’ve never actually seen before. You and your merry band go around kicking asses and killing innocent fighters with super high martial and dueling skills, building a grand legend for the ages. Eventually you run out of innocents to kill, and you return victorious. You can add bloodlines to characters via scripts or editing the save file. It's reasonably easy. Of course, whether Palkhorre and his spawn deserve Gyalyum's is another question.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:34
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AnAnonymousIdiot posted:What made the Governor think a bear was his best warrior? The bear had a 100+ combat score. Veryslightlymad posted:I'm aware that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Warrior Lodges are stupid and game-breaking. To avoid Tibet rampaging all over the map forever and the LP from getting too repetitive, I decided to cut back on characters joining warrior lodges unless it makes some kind of narrative sense for them to do so. Gyalyum makes sense because she already had 20+ martial and brave and wroth. I'm not sure what to do about the bloodlines, but I'll say something once I decide. For a while, Gyalyum's heir was her youngest brother, Getong, who was Weak, Dull, and had multiple stats below 5. But he keeled over at age 23 from slow fever (i.e. typhoid), and he had one kid, Palkhorre, born a year before he died. It was a very close run thing. All of her siblings died before age 25, btw. So in the meantime, expect a brief state of the world update for 950. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 22:13
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There was always the Guge branch. Ugh.
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Jun 19, 2019 22:23
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Hey, Po the Ruthless turned out to be pretty good!
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Jun 19, 2019 22:36
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State of the World: 950  Tsenmo Purgyal Gyalyum is still ruler after sixty years. She is at the peak of her political and military power, though the stresses of her occupation and the physical toll of warfare have made themselves known.  The eastern part of the Tarim basin was once ruled by a band of nomads, but that arrangement has disintegrated upon the death of the reigning Khan. Now the little oasis cities are alone and easy pickings.   What's left of the Eastern Protectorate is no more. Not long after Gyalyum's devastating raid, a Mongol band under Yeke has conquered all of the old garrison towns, from the Kumtag desert to Jiuquan. He has since lost that spark of military fervor and has debased himself in drink.    To Tibet's west, near the Oxus and the Syr Darya, the Samanids are no more. In their place, however, are two kingdoms, led by two brothers, Gulai and Pakyau. The two kingdoms are a divided inheritance of their father, Sevenç, who claims descent from the Sassanids.    The rump Abbasid empire is ruled from Ilam, not far from the the ruins of another more ancient polity, having been exiled from Baghdad. The Saffarids still rule over Sistan, with their Banebshen obsessively counting her gains in Zaranj.   We do know a little more about lands further west, thanks to our eunuch Leontios. Aegyptos, as he calls it, is ruled by the kind and just Sultana Mariam, of the Tulunids.   His own homeland, which he insists on calling Roman, is ruled by the Basilissa Kale Melissenos. She apparently has been there for fifteen years, which the eunuch insists is no small achievement. They also control some city called Jerusalem, which apparently is valued by many.   The Pratiharas have not even been slowed down from the loss of Kosala and Kannauj. Instead, they have shifted their expansion to the west. Saugandeva II 'The Just' entertains himself in finding and hunting exotic animals.    In the south of the Indian subcontinent, the Rashtrakutas have recovered from the Ming invasion some decades before. Their lands are split between Maharaja Krishna IV in Maharashtra, and his distant relative, Maharani Chandaladevi, who controls Telangana and its southeastern frontier.   The Bengal kingdom remains subservient to the Pratiharas, just as the Kingdom in Kamarupa obeys Tibet. The Pala dynasty is still in place, with Rajyapala II busies himself by torturing religious and political opponents.  The Jin, after decades of chaos, have finally retained something like control over much of greater China. Several states have agreed to sign diplomatic treaties with them and a few brave (or truly frightened) states have sworn tribute to them. Cultures  Religions 
Kangxi fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 03:01
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Chapter 10: 950 to 955 - Tsenmo Purgyal Gyalyum 'the Benevolent' A selection from "The Life of Tsenmo Gyalyum", by Longchen Rinpoche. Composed in the late 980s, this volume is much more anecdotal and bears little resemblance to the Chinese liezhuan usually seen in dynastic histories.   Even in the last years of her life, Gyalyum was an energetic and ambitious Tsenmo. She campaigned to recover the remaining cities in the Tarim Basin, and thus control the major trade routes heading to and from China. After several years of intermittent campaigns, she was able to control everything from Niya to the great salt lake the Mongols called Lop Nur and the Jin called Yanze. It was the largest body of water she'd ever seen, and she stared at the water for an exceedingly long time. She wondered about the great oceans to the east of China and which the Ganges flowed into, and she regretted that she had never seen them.  Her vassals in Kosala had their own independent ambitions. The vassal king there announced his campaign to strike out to their east and to seize the city of Ratnapura. She had no interest in stopping this invasion and was indeed pleased to see him take such initiative.  She was always happy to meet a new or inexperienced warrior, as indeed they were all young and like buds to her, and she was willing to offer some kind words or encouragement.  The Gyalyum was continually interested in the world outside of her kingdom, and so relentlessly asked any passing travelers for news of the other great kingdoms and peoples. She heard and indeed privately welcomed the news of a great war of the Muslims to reclaim their holy city, as indeed such a war would prevent them from heading to their east.  The ministers, petty lords, and princes around her were utterly devoted to her leadership. A council meeting I once attended had the character of a strict tutor instructing a group of young pupils, with the Tsenmo calling upon them after they raised their hands to speak. Only her nephew, Palkhorre, dared to express different opinions, and he was more interested in the glories of warfare and the necessity of military action.  Yet she perceived herself as beset by enemies and ingrates. I heard, though I have not confirmed, that she was once seen burning documents over an open fire one night, warning the servants about enemies of the gods and their servants, and how they could take all manner of disguises. She claimed that someone in her closest circle, perhaps even her council, could have been working against her, but she never discovered the identity of the hidden traitor.  The one person she trusted most, indeed the one she granted numerous responsibilities, was her Lönchen, the archpriestess of the reformed Bön faith, Tse. The two were inseparable, and I observed the two going on long excursions or hunting trips when possible.  The empire at this time was mostly, but not entirely, peaceful. A further distant relative of the exiled Licchavi dynasty made another misguided attempt to reclaim their ancestral lands in Nepal.   As was her custom, she led the army herself to defeat them. At this time in her reign, she was had organized and arranged for a special group of troops that were always ready for battle at her order, instead of appealing to the various lords under her command to conscript men only when called on. The army was victorious in a single skirmish outside of a cluster of villages near Dullu.   The defeated claimant was exiled, though some of his commanders were sacrificed as an act of gratitude to the gods. When I asked as to why the Tsenmo specifically followed this practice, I was told that it was to "satisfy the gods and to prevent the threat of revenge, which was always difficult to discern." After observing countless invasions and threats of invasions, I feel as if I could understand her reasoning.   Indeed in her last months, revolts and angry priests remained a persistent concern. Even though she defeated each rebellion handily, she remarked that it was like "swatting mosquitoes".   Yet these incidents were so minor, so misguided, and indeed inconsequential that I do not feel the need to elaborate upon them.   One more persistent issue was the exiled branches of her family, especially those that once ruled Guge. Yet instead of another costly and ruinous invasion, the claimant in question died after being bit by a rabid dog. Upon hearing the news, Gyalyum remarked on the fragility of life and said not to question the gods' will.  In the closing months of 954, not long after she had finished the conquest of the southern rim of the Tarim basin, she walked about as if she had a weight lifted from her shoulders. She said, in a matter of fact tone, that she had accomplished the majority of her ambitions, and was free to spend the remainder of her life in a more relaxed manner and prepare the kingdom for her successor.  She met with courtiers to discuss the construction of buildings and inscribed stone columns to affirm the strength of the realm and to convey the law to all.  She passed her time peacefully, ensuring the good governance of the realm, and took such care in matters as settling disputes over herd grazing rights and meeting tribal leaders with her Lönchen. Late in the evening, in the second month of the year 955, she had a book read to her, as was her custom. I have heard, though I could not confirm, that the book was Chen Shou's Records of the Three Kingdoms. Later in the evening, she said she had a terrible pain in her neck. She stood up, ran to the door, and then fell to the ground as she passed through the threshold. A doctor and priest were called, but she was dead by the time they arrived.  In the seventy-eighth year of her life, and the sixty-fifth year and twentieth day of her reign, Tsenmo Gyalyum passed away. Tibet was an orphan.  
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Jun 21, 2019 20:12
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78 is a pretty good age to go out at. And I spy a hidden religion...
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Jun 21, 2019 20:16
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No one is gonna match Granny Gyalyum for awesomeness throughout the rest of this LP. We peaked too early!
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Jun 21, 2019 20:30
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My second goddamn ruler is a Kill Six Billion Demons character and now the rest of these schlubs have to live in her shadow
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Jun 21, 2019 21:01
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And of course he’s secret Old Bon. I mean, what’s the real difference in new and old?
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Jun 21, 2019 21:06
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Negrostrike posted:You are a great woman on the run Respect
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Jun 21, 2019 21:12
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I smell a war of succession.
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Jun 21, 2019 23:57
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:And of course he’s secret Old Bon. I mean, what’s the real difference in new and old? Fair warning, I am an expert in none of this, I'm just somebody with the internet and JSTOR access. Serious answer: I'm having trouble imagining with what Bön would even look like. I've seen one author, Christopher Beckwith, just say there was no such thing as a 'Bön' religion and it was invented centuries after by Buddhist writers. On the other hand, I've seen bibliographies full of writings and biographies of a semi-mythical founder, Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche. Later accounts of the Bon faith start with him. Sam van Schaik, the historian of Tibet, wrote a paper called "The naming of Tibetan religion: Bon and Chos in the Tibetan imperial period", where "Bon" is simply the word used to describe all priests, shamans, etc., before Buddhism was introduced to Tibet. In our (not the LP) timeline, Buddhism was persecuted and really lost much of its cohesion within what was the Tibetan Empire from about 850 to about 1000. By the 11th century, Buddhism began to enter Tibet again through several teachers, such as Atiśa, who was instrumental in introducing the Kadam school of Buddhism, and Marpa, who founded the Kagyu lineage of Buddhism. Concurrently, there was the development of the terma tradition, literally meaning 'hidden treasures', which refers to scriptures or revelations that were concealed by the Buddhist master Padmasambhava in the 8th century. Tertön, refers to individuals who have discovered these teachings. While all these Buddhist traditions and scholarly methods are interacting with each other or not, this was also around the time that Bon becomes more recognizable. Now why do I bring this up? Around the time Tibetan Buddhism develops, Bon monasteries and temples also spring up, and surprise surprise, they have their own "discovered" scriptures. It might be some structures and forms of Buddhism grafted onto 'pre-Buddhist' practices. I remember, though I cannot produce a citation right now, that the Bon practices claim to have their own indigenous 'Buddhas' or 'Boddhisvatas', which is striking as these terms both originate from outside of Tibet. Maybe Bon might be something like Asatru, or some of the other pre-Christian belief systems of northern Europe which were later reconstructed from some very limited and fragmentary texts across multiple different, possibly even contradictory traditions, after a great distance and many of the first believers have passed away. Frankly, I don't know. I've heard speculation that the first Tibetans were actually nomadic steppe warriors like the Scythians or Mongols. I've heard another guy say that Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche is actually Lao Tzu - yes that Lao Tzu, founder of what is called Taoism. Or maybe Shenrab Miwoche is the Shakyamuni Buddha. I have no clue. We don't have enough primary sources to say. I'll leave that to the people who study this for a living. Negrostrike posted:You are a great woman on the run This owns btw Kangxi fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 00:22
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In the broader sense, you could probably simplify that a bit by emphasizing what we've already defined about the LP timeline's Bön - i.e., institutionalized gender equality, mythologizing figures like Gyalyum and her (great?) grandpa, animism and nature worship, etc. There's also lots of room for the religion to develop As for the Old Bön split, maybe it's more an issue of "we shouldn't be codifying these beliefs at all" - less a question of what the Right beliefs are and more a repudiation of the recently established institutions and scholarly traditions, or whatever. Think something like the Karaites compared to rabbinic Judaism. From this standpoint, we might expect our new ruler to attempt to undermine the power of the church, either by openly professing his faith and saying Tse is illegitimate, or by nominally maintaining New Bön practices while feuding with her behind the scenes. MaxieSatan fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 00:44
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Tse's not much younger than Gyalyum, right? Maybe she should retire to the countryside.
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Jun 22, 2019 01:04
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habeasdorkus posted:Tse's not much younger than Gyalyum, right? Maybe she should retire to the countryside. She's 82. 83 by March 855
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Jun 22, 2019 01:10
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