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khy posted:There's some parts of i25 I'm not thrilled with. Null the gull is one of them. I like the whole going rogue stuff, and the vigilante/ rogue system is great, but I sort of feel like an npc doing it instantly for free kind of cheapens it. You are correct in that it does entirely cheapen the old Going Rogue method for changing sides if you can do so via magic seagull, and you are correct in that most players prefer it being convenient to do.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:36
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Bieeanshee posted:Given the number of people running farms, plotting out systems-shattering set layouts, and that post earlier about dropping Hami in record time, a shortcut to let people play where they want to seems awfully small potatoes. Or, if not simply understandably forgetting that from years gone by. They are incredibly broken and would love to see people have to wait actual for real days between alignment shifts again. Blew my loving mind you can just do tips/non Null the gull alignment stuff on your own time now Section Z fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 02:21
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null's a good gull
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Jun 20, 2019 02:25
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LaserShark posted:Several pages back, I saw people talking about headless characters and, well... Totally made me think of this dude: 
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Jun 20, 2019 02:34
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khy posted:There's some parts of i25 I'm not thrilled with. Null the gull is one of them. I like the whole going rogue stuff, and the vigilante/ rogue system is great, but I sort of feel like an npc doing it instantly for free kind of cheapens it. Considering how villains become heros and back and forth constantly in comics, it's fine.
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Jun 20, 2019 02:43
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hot door btw
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Jun 20, 2019 03:18
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Hey, so - what would people say the top 4 MM primaries are? I seem to remember that Thugs and Bots are the top two?
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Jun 20, 2019 03:25
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Remora posted:Hey, so - what would people say the top 4 MM primaries are? I seem to remember that Thugs and Bots are the top two? If we're just talking effectiveness and ignoring the "play what you want" mantra, probably Bots, Thugs, Demons, and...Nature maybe? I usually hear people talking about Necromancy and Ninjas having issues, and I'm not a fan of the Merc medic being a minion. None of them are really bad, though. If you want to focus on effectiveness, your secondary is probably more important, especially if thinking about synergy with the primary (long range henchman might do better with a PBAoE heal than an enemy-targeted one, for example), but I feel like MM's more than anything else really are just play what you want. You're gonna get a pain train going regardless.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:34
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HPanda posted:If we're just talking effectiveness and ignoring the "play what you want" mantra, probably Bots, Thugs, Demons, and...Nature maybe? I usually hear people talking about Necromancy and Ninjas having issues, and I'm not a fan of the Merc medic being a minion. None of them are really bad, though. If you want to focus on effectiveness, your secondary is probably more important, especially if thinking about synergy with the primary (long range henchman might do better with a PBAoE heal than an enemy-targeted one, for example), but I feel like MM's more than anything else really are just play what you want. You're gonna get a pain train going regardless. I think Beasts scores pretty low due to the fact that pets have little to no ranged attacks, and have to run up to everything to do damage.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:52
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Even ignoring numbers, plain old "Eventually your most fragile minions have enough shooting attacks to never enter melee" is probably big reason why people like Not Necromancy. When your earlier level robot drones or soldiers run up to suicidaly punch a Tank Smasher, it's a fluke because they don't have enough real attacks yet to not resort to running up and punching someone to fill dead air constantly. Eventually they have so many attacks you can just slam "All/Aggressive" and they will manage to (mostly) stay out of harms way in late game murder train teams. But high level Genin are always going to want to run up and spin kick a Nemesis Warkulk  Shooting bees at people is great! But the more melee oriented your MM primary, the more micromanaging there is, basically. Even if that basically amounts to "How often do I maybe need to reel in or resumon my pets?' Disclaimer: I have not personally played a MM since the last moments before Shutdown. But there was certainly a lot less wrangling the more shooty over slappy my MM's were. Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 04:02
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Remora posted:Hey, so - what would people say the top 4 MM primaries are? I seem to remember that Thugs and Bots are the top two? Of the ones I've played: Thugs: The thugs themselves do mediocre damage and are a bit fragile, but Gang War is the best power ever. Pair it with Time to buff your recharge, so you can be playing West Side Story all day long. Robots: The raw damage is bad, but they're absolutely the sturdiest, and the Assault Bot has a -regen that murders AV/GMs. Pair it with Dark to give the bots softcapped defense. Demons: Pretty good. The constant howling gets amazingly annoying. Necro: Kinda limp. The basic zombies hit like a wet rag, and the Lich has a ton of control powers but poor damage. Beasts: On paper the damage is amazing, but they have no ranged attacks, so a lot of time is wasted running from one target to the next. Pair it with Kin to make the kitties zip around like hypercharged gerbils. Gynovore fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 04:11
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LaserShark posted:I think Beasts scores pretty low due to the fact that pets have little to no ranged attacks, and have to run up to everything to do damage. Yeah, I just didn't really know what else to put in that fourth slot, and Beast Mastery involves shooting bees and ravens at people, so...
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Jun 20, 2019 04:11
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HPanda posted:Yeah, I just didn't really know what else to put in that fourth slot, and Beast Mastery involves shooting bees and ravens at people, so... Beasts are at least consistent in their suicidal running around, unlike zombies.
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Jun 20, 2019 04:18
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I rolled a Beasts MM worrying about damage and efficiency but as soon as I saw my first doggo all my worldly concerns washed away
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Jun 20, 2019 04:22
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Merilan posted:I rolled a Beasts MM worrying about damage and efficiency but as soon as I saw my first doggo all my worldly concerns washed away The biggest concern with Beasts is that you have to take attack powers that are as heavy-feeling as possible. You must personally hurt those who dare to hurt your furry buddies.
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Jun 20, 2019 04:25
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Thanks, guys - I have some ideas for what I'm doing now. Just a few discussion questions before I go to bed, because I'm debating secondaries now. Thugs - Empathy or Pain? The concept is a mutant therapist who coerces ex-cons into fighting crime to prove they're not bad guys. I can't decide how dark I wanna go on the concept - if one of those is garbage it would help make up my mind. Bots - FF I am told is super boring, how about Sonic or Storm? Kinetics? Mercs - I had a concept for an agent of a Semibenevolent Future Time Police Agency I could reuse here - how's Time as a Mercs secondary? Demons - The concept is coming together, but I could take the character a few different ways - are any of these secondaries garbage for Demons - Dark, Pain, Poison, Storm, or Thermal?
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Jun 20, 2019 04:27
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Beasts are theoretically the highest damage, but super squishy combined with all melee attacks, if I remember goon talks in the discord correctly. Demons is the most highly recommended one there, while pubbies say Bots are the best. Demons have varied damage types, are pretty tanky, have some -res on their attacks, and the primary's attack powers all also have -res on them. You want to take their attacks and be actively hitting things. Bots has pretty not great attack powers, so you don't lose much by taking a more active secondary. Edit: as for secondaries: Force Field has almost 0 active stuff to do, and is great for pairing with something like Demons where you take a lot of attacks. It gives a lot of Defense, and not much else but hey. Cold is all around a great secondary for all MMs (and if you play on HC they enabled minimal SFX on it). Survial stuff, but also tons of damage. my 46 Demons MM is Cold/Demon Time is very active, but very high reward. Do a bit of everything. I tried to pair this with my first Demon MM, and holy gently caress it was too much. Thermal is like time, but with better healing I believe? Don't take Storm. Please. Just don't. Edit: Oh, and Nature is better at healing than Empathy, that also has some good offensive buffing KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 04:28
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Remora posted:Hey, so - what would people say the top 4 MM primaries are? I seem to remember that Thugs and Bots are the top two? Thugs are very high damage and mild defense from their own pet-leadership, Demons are a good all-around mix of damage, survivability and control-y/debuff effects, and Robots make sturdy AV/GM killers but have lower than average damage. The fourth is kinda hard to qualify. I think Ninjas have the highest damage potential, but their suicidal melee tendencies make it hard to pull off. I've heard stories of people using KB to KB IOs to make them strong soft-control machines, but mileage may vary. I don't know poo poo about Beasts other than "hey maybe they have high potential too" but I think it's even harder to pull off than Ninjas. Necro and Mercs both feel decidedly  but Necro has a bit of control-y stuff to it that I think makes it pull a little ahead.Remora posted:Just a few discussion questions before I go to bed, because I'm debating secondaries now. I can't really speak on Empathy or Pain (though I think they're both below average), but I think Pain might be a somewhat better idea for a MM? Empathy's big selling points are a regen and recovery aura, both of which I don't think are gonna help low HP minions much. Pain exchanges that for some +dmg effects which will probably work better. Sonic, Storm and Kinetics are all pretty fun. Sonic I believe works better for something with melee minions, since it has a -res aura you put on an ally. Storm is a late bloomer and requires a fair amount of finesse, so maybe not great on a first outing, but the control-y effects are potent in the right hands. Kinetics is absurdly strong, though Speed Boost's extra recharge won't help your pets at all. For Robots specifically, I might recommend /Dark, /Time, or /Traps instead, though I think Storm could be pretty fun with them too. Time is also very independently good and I think it works well with anything, Mercs included. And the only total garbage secondary (at least in my opinion) is /Poison, but even then it's still not that bad. Anything else will probably serve you better, though.
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Jun 20, 2019 04:49
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HPanda posted:The biggest concern with Beasts is that you have to take attack powers that are as heavy-feeling as possible. You must personally hurt those who dare to hurt your furry buddies. that's what the eagle is there for. he's on watch to punish the wicked!! then when all's said and done /Nature summons a healing doggy park on demand, 10/10
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Jun 20, 2019 05:09
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Dark: This is super awesome. Tons and tons of tohit debuffs, plus a heal, a hold, a rez, and another pet. Super awesome with pets that have defense, like robots or ninjas, but works well with anything. Empathy: Pretty good levels 1-49, and will guarantee you a team spot with publords who insist that every team needs a heal0r. Almost useless at Incarnate stuff. Nature: Eh, not horrible but not great. Kin:  OH GOD YES YES YES Pain: This is pretty much Empathy with a coat of paint. Poison: All this does is debuff AV/GMs, and it's not amazing at that. Sonic: Pretty good mix of buffs and debuffs. Time: Very very good, buffs and debuffs and holds. Traps: A mixed bag, some powers are great and some suck. Arrow: A bunch of debuffs, not terrible but not great. Gynovore fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 05:50
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I think Empathy really suffers from the fact that you only really need one heal button, tops; Healing Aura (and other similar heals like Twilight Grasp and Transfusion) wind up being able to keep a party topped off so both Heal Other and especially Absorb Pain are just dead powerset slots. It's a really old powerset design and it shows
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Jun 20, 2019 06:05
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I can't take it any more. Poison is king of the god drat hill for AV busting. It's a great loving set. You want to make a team of "gently caress everything"? Poison/Son, Cold/Son, and Kin/Son defender on a team. The other five can be wtfever, it doesn't matter. You already won.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:55
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Merilan posted:I think Empathy really suffers from the fact that you only really need one heal button, tops; Healing Aura (and other similar heals like Twilight Grasp and Transfusion) wind up being able to keep a party topped off so both Heal Other and especially Absorb Pain are just dead powerset slots. It's a really old powerset design and it shows i.m.e. as Pain Dom trying to prop up a Brute tank, I absolutely loving need Share Pain the real problem with heal-intensive sets is that healing is very, very reactive, as opposed to laying down shields and maybe dumping some debuffs on the crowd. as a healer, I have to keep track of who seems to be eating the alphas, make sure I always have LoS to them, make sure nobody's stumbling around stunned or blind, etc etc. much easier to play something like Thermal where you have a mix of shields and heals, less firefighting that way
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Jun 20, 2019 07:07
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I'm gonna shill a bit for /nature and a bit for demons. I've been playing it to 30 so far, so not sure how it plays in later content, but so far it's been pretty great with demons. If I play monster rancher and keep them in the meadow, between their inate resistance, +12% resistance to everything to fill in the gaps and bolster what they have, some damage reducers (one single target, one aoe), an aoe tohit debuff, some resistance and defense auras from IO's, and the big heal over time of the movable meadow, my pain train is unstoppable. That's even before I throw on the absorb shield and use the pretty huge, fast recharging aoe heal for the occasional misstep. If I wanna be cheeky, I can plop myself down in the middle of them in bodyguard mode and just keep slapping the enemy while laughing as every wound heals right back up within seconds. I picked up Haste for big battles, but I never end up needing it so I think I'm gonna respec at some point to pick up another attack power instead. The whole package is good, varied damage and excellent survivability. And this is coming from someone who mained a Bots/Dark on live.
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Jun 20, 2019 07:35
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In fairness, Empathy has some good buffs, but they're really late and a lot of the really nice stuff is on long recharges. It does feel like an I0 set, which is weird when Dark and Kin are also I0 and probably the best support sets in the game.
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Jun 20, 2019 07:41
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I'm playing a good amount of redside these days. What are the most fun villain arcs to do as I level my villain? I'm collecting suggestions for my to do list.
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Jun 20, 2019 14:55
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Harrow posted:I'm playing a good amount of redside these days. What are the most fun villain arcs to do as I level my villain? I'm collecting suggestions for my to do list. Viridian in Grandville has a lot of unlock requirements but is absolutely worth it. Westin Phipps is a Grandville contact who was added in response to some players feeling their villain wasn't evil enough. I remember the Johnny Sonata arc in St Martial being pretty good too though I haven't played back through it yet in Homecoming. I've done surprisingly few villain story missions on Homecoming actually, I'll have to fix that. E: Doc Buzzsaw in Sharkhead Isle is a Thundarr fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 15:05
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TBH as fun as redside is, you can definitely feel that it never got the kind of polish pass that blueside did. There's just.. a lot less there.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:20
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I would have loved if more had been done with red-specific content, bit frankly the pre-i6 stuff needed every bit of polishing it got.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:23
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Harrow posted:I'm playing a good amount of redside these days. What are the most fun villain arcs to do as I level my villain? I'm collecting suggestions for my to do list. In addition to the ones Thundarr listed, Vernon Von Grun and Television are great arc series. Grun keeps showing up in the background of other villain missions and he's delightful all the while. For non-40 stuff, Dean MacArthur and Leonard in Sharkhead Isle are pretty fun (and tie into future arcs, in fact) as does Vincent Ross. In Nerva Archipelago, Crimson Revenant and Psimon Omega both end up coming back during the post-praetoria arcs at max level and are enjoyable enough. Also in Nerva is Timothy Naylor, who has a fun arc. Port Oakes has Mr. Bokor and Radio Radio RADIO FREE OPPORTUNITY, along with Peter Themari (who has an element from his arc show up in Vernon Von Grun's and in the background of some later missions). Cap Au Diable has Bane Spider Reuben, Brother Hammond, and Marshall Brass whose arc will get you an Ouroborous teleporter. Also in Cap is Dr. Shelley Percey, whose arcs are fine but has a very fun mission in one. Fun trivia: Nerva Archipelago has three separate story arcs that all end with you beating up Aurora Borealis. It's not a good place for her. Edit: also Hardcase in Martial is a good one and is tied a bit to Johnny Sonata's whole thing. Also the Slot Machine contact provides a very nice arc, just be sure to read the Clues you get during each mission and the souvenir you receive at the end of it. Unlocking Slot Machine isn't so hard these days, you just need to have beaten up 200 Family mobs, regardless of their level or rating. Also, when you pick a patron, Scirocco has the most interesting arc. Black Scorpion is awful, Ghost Widow's appreciable, and Captain Mako is just okay. Extra Edit: Oh dang, almost forgot. Also in Sharkhead: Darrin Wade, who will be very prominent if you do the villainside Who Will Die? Signature Story Arc. Ironslave fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 15:52
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Tommy 2.0 posted:I can't take it any more. Plz add this to the OP.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:59
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For MM chat, there's a guy on the homecoming forums (Dixa) that has been testing a bunch of high-end MM sets on their test server. He found that demons/thermal ended up being one of the best all-arounders especially for killing AVS. This is just one of the threads but he posted some builds here. https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,4276.0.html He posted a video soloing an AV and I decided to roll one. Not so much because he solo'd an AV with it, but because holy poo poo you can actually deal with AoE and not get wiped out. I had a thugs/poison and thugs/traps on live with softcapped defenses, and they were great unless something actually got through the defense in which case all your loving pets died. Thermal with demons apparently caps your pets resistance to drat near everything except Psi (he posted a spreadsheet in another thread but I can't find it). You also get a spammable AoE heal on a short cooldown, a large single target heal for your pets, AoE -res and -Def, and a -500% regen power. I rolled one myself and it's only level 10, but just having a s/l/e shield with good heals has made my pets way more survivable. It's great. I'm trying a different (and cheaper) build from Dixa's but he has some good info to go by.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:08
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Hakarne posted:For MM chat, there's a guy on the homecoming forums (Dixa) that has been testing a bunch of high-end MM sets on their test server. He found that demons/thermal ended up being one of the best all-arounders especially for killing AVS. This is just one of the threads but he posted some builds here. I rolled one based just on theme, and she's pretty good.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:34
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Relentless posted:I rolled one based just on theme, and she's pretty good. Yeah that appealed to me too. I usually go with science/tech background characters and I thought of a fun concept for a magic demon summoner (Del Nileppez a page or two back). So I'm going to go Villain again but do all the contacts my other characters normally skip, which is usually the magic/supernatural stuff. Theme/concept is the most important decision imo.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:42
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Harrow posted:I'm playing a good amount of redside these days. What are the most fun villain arcs to do as I level my villain? I'm collecting suggestions for my to do list. In addition to what others have said, Dr. Forrester in Grandville is literally the bad guy from Mystery Science Theater 3000.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:50
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Westin phipps sure is the evil one of villain contacts. If you want to feel downright dirty, feel free to do all his missions. When I was doing morality missions on my hero, i was intending to go vigilante. Turned out my morality mission included the vigilante option to beat the poo poo of phipps. I gladly took it, and it felt good even though he had it recorded and used the footage to make him look innocent. Truly a comic book villain.
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Jun 20, 2019 17:19
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his name is Angus McFife
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Jun 20, 2019 19:03
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Shredder posted:his name is Angus McFife Yes it is. But Gloryhammer is more recognizable. It's nuts how many many people throw out a random "Hail Hoots!"
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Jun 20, 2019 21:49
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Cheeseman posted:Westin phipps sure is the evil one of villain contacts. If you want to feel downright dirty, feel free to do all his missions. When I was doing morality missions on my hero, i was intending to go vigilante. Turned out my morality mission included the vigilante option to beat the poo poo of phipps. I gladly took it, and it felt good even though he had it recorded and used the footage to make him look innocent. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Westin_Phipps That's some evil poo poo there, I gotta do those missions on my rear end in a top hat villains
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Jun 20, 2019 22:59
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I wish MMs got rock armor/control secondary. Would be nice for thugs to get stone shields or something. Maybe a recolor of Ice?
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