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Vitamin P posted:Do you think immigrants don't age? this is literally what they do in the USA to fund social security
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Jun 19, 2019 23:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i think you all clearly underestimate the electoral power of one boris johnson Say what you want about him, but there's one thing that he is not: Theresa May
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Jun 19, 2019 23:43
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Vitamin P posted:Do you think immigrants don't age? I think people have just about figured out you're doing that Question Friend schtick of being kinda jovial and chatty while constantly inching fascism into the conversation.
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Jun 19, 2019 23:49
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alexander de pfeffre johnson ruined at the last second by the surprise entry of Jeb into the conservative party leadership elections
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Jun 19, 2019 23:53
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Vitamin P posted:Surely they can't possibly win you've forgotten what timeline we live in. remember trump? brexit? Vitamin P posted:This cannot be real. lol
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Jun 19, 2019 23:53
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Vitamin P: Hallo lads, jus me, yer friendly neighborhood bloke here. WOW, Boris Johnson! Yikes! Spicy! Are we in crazy land over here? Haha, what's next! Gifting the entire city of Bristol and 3000 white virgins to the brown menace and calling it New Calcutta??? Haha I kid though.
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Jun 19, 2019 23:57
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Grape posted:I think people have just about figured out you're doing that Question Friend schtick of being kinda jovial and chatty while constantly inching fascism into the conversation. Thank you for calling me jovial but no. Do you really not see how using immigrants as pension-support labour is either really dumb or really cruel?
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Jun 20, 2019 00:00
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AnoHito posted:The Irish-American identity is waaayyyyy stronger than any kind of Scottish-American identity. I've met tons of Americans that call themselves Irish, but literally not a single one that identified as a Scot. At most you'll get people who liked Braveheart a bit too much, and maybe some of the general "gently caress the British Empire, and Everything it Ever Was" sentiment that still (correctly) hangs around in just about every country. Irish-American identity is all kinds of weird. A huge chunk of Famine emigrants that ended up in the US were Ulster-Scots plantation-era settlers who somehow became native Irish during the trip to the New World. So they ended up with a strange mix of Scots Presbyterian fundamentalist beliefs combined with a desire for a united Ireland.
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Jun 20, 2019 00:11
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Spergin Morlock posted:lol if they do this and corbyn ends up as PM way more amusing if they do and he doesn't
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Jun 20, 2019 00:39
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Relevant Tangent posted:way more amusing if they do and he doesn't we talk big but that is still the most likely outcome. CON/BREX/DUP/CUK/SNP/LIB DEM rainbow coalition is more likely than the establishment letting a lefty labour gov into power
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Jun 20, 2019 00:44
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Startin' to think your island is doomed, boys
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Jun 20, 2019 00:46
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Raskolnikov38 posted:https://twitter.com/rhjameson/status/1141457563550212096 My first inclination would be that it would be awesome and Labor would probably get a majority, but then I reminded myself that we live in hellworld and likely it would be a tory / brexit / liberal democrat coalition vs Corbyn
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Jun 20, 2019 00:50
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BMX Ninja posted:Irish-American identity is all kinds of weird. A huge chunk of Famine emigrants that ended up in the US were Ulster-Scots plantation-era settlers who somehow became native Irish during the trip to the New World. So they ended up with a strange mix of Scots Presbyterian fundamentalist beliefs combined with a desire for a united Ireland. Uh I don't think so my dude. There was a period of big Ulster-Scots migration, and those people who know where their ancestors came from do have some confused ideas like that. But that wave came before the US gained independence, and mostly moved inland and made up lots of the European settlement in the Appalachian mountains, and eventually beyond to the rest of the South and west to a degree as well. The famine didn't effect Ulster as badly either, let alone the eastern parts that had/have heavy Protestant populations.  Famine emigration was the big start for Catholic Irish in America, and as mentioned they came around just as the big industrial boom in northern cities was underway. Where they basically stayed in and around.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:02
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Vitamin P posted:Thank you for calling me jovial but no. Do you really not see how using immigrants as pension-support labour is either really dumb or really cruel? It is strange that you're always there when the word 'immigrant' is used in this thread 
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Jun 20, 2019 01:11
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Vitamin P posted:we talk big but that is still the most likely outcome. CON/BREX/DUP/CUK/SNP/LIB DEM rainbow coalition is more likely than the establishment letting a lefty labour gov into power we? you are, as always, transparent in your motivations
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Jun 20, 2019 01:28
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Feldegast42 posted:My first inclination would be that it would be awesome and Labor would probably get a majority, but then I reminded myself that we live in hellworld and likely it would be a tory / brexit / liberal democrat coalition vs Corbyn PM Chuka
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Jun 20, 2019 01:50
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theresa may returned to 10 as head of the cuk coalition govt
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Jun 20, 2019 02:15
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first order of business will be putting the withdrawal agreement to a meaningful vote
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Jun 20, 2019 02:22
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CUKs care about insertions though?
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Jun 20, 2019 03:37
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The real Sexit - the porn block, has been delayed again. Looks like sex is back on the menu, boys.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:07
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marktheando posted:This might shock you but actually the next Prime Minister is Boris Johnson, not Jeremy Corbyn. We are not looking at a socialist paradise, but at Brexit austerity hell world. The voters of England have given us Tory government after Tory government, austerity, brexit and I'd like to bail out please. The voters of Scotland also voted overwhelmingly for austerity hellworld parties: The SNP is dominated by its centrist faction, Scotlab are mostly Blairite scum and we don't even have to guess with the Scottish Tories. That's already drat near to a supermajority in favour of austerity hellworld today. So in reality you're not going to get some giant political realignment that ushers in socialism come independence, but rather you'll have another centrist government that's immediately going to capitulate to the dictates of international capital, and since you'll be in an extremely weak position just post-independence capital is going to squeeze you for all that you've got. And even if you, by some miracle, did get a socialist government post independence, then all of the aforementioned political parties won't just go away, but rather would try to gently caress things up as hard as possible. You're talking about the notion that Corbyn would have a hard time governing if Labour got in, but how exactly would this be any different? Like, if you can show me a political movement that has a good chance of forming a socialist government post-independence that won't immediately be sabotaged by capital then sure, in that case I'm all aboard the Indy train, but that movement just doesn't seem to exist. marktheando posted:And also on the topic of Blairites, lol at the thought of voting for anyone in the Scottish Labour party. Spuckuk posted:Because Scots Labour are a bunch of shithouse blairite fuckups. And they're going to get better post-independence how exactly? This is my exact point, as socialists our goal at a minimum should be to, you know, get a socialist government. Independence can be a tool for this, which is why I used to be sympathetic to the Indy side in Scotland, but it's merely a tool and not an end goal in itself. In a hypothetical independent Scotland you ain't even got the possibility of a socialist government in even the medium term because all of your major parties are dominated by neolibs. In the UK you've got Corbyn's Labour who at least have a shot at success. The choice, then, is obvious, Scotland ought to stay because that gives the highest possibility of getting a socialist government for the people of Scotland. Grape posted:Yo, even Lenin was down with ethnic nationalism when it concerned minority groups seen as possibly being trod upon and marginalized by big huge chauvinistic majorities. Tell me more about how Lenin was willing to just let all the nationalities break away from the USSR and get capitalism reimposed on them. E: Typos. Cerebral Bore has issued a correction as of 07:02 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 06:12
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Vitamin P posted:Thank you for calling me jovial but no. Do you really not see how using immigrants as pension-support labour is either really dumb or really cruel? you get that by the time the migrants are old the original old people will be dead, right
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Jun 20, 2019 06:14
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exmarx posted:you get that by the time the migrants are old the original old people will be dead, right when donald trump cures cancer, boomers will never die
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Jun 20, 2019 06:30
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gently caress nationalists and gently caress nationalism.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:43
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CoolCab posted:gently caress nationalists and gently caress nationalism. But this nation is the best nation. I was born here! What's going on with BoJo's trial for being a loving liar? Hopefully that'll be swift and he'll be found guilty
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Jun 20, 2019 08:00
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important article on graudina about how boris' messy car gives an insight into his mind much to think about 
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Jun 20, 2019 08:02
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Alan_Shore posted:But this nation is the best nation. I was born here! It was chucked out because it was paper thin, legally speaking
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Jun 20, 2019 08:31
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Party Boat posted:It was chucked out because it was paper thin, legally speaking Well why should he face consequences for his actions after all
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Jun 20, 2019 08:48
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Ah, the UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen (used to indiscriminately kill civilians) have been declared unlawful. Ah, well,
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Jun 20, 2019 10:29
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Ah! Nevertheless,
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Jun 20, 2019 10:47
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Vitamin P posted:Surely they can't possibly win, they would have Brexit Party splitting their core vote. Labour wouldn't even have to go full Remain, they could just be the 'second referendum on anything even the totally awesome withdrawal deal we will totes make guys' and get enough FBPE melts onside by being the legit best tactical option. This cannot be real. This would be kind of a second referendum with the country voting the party it feels is most likely to deliver their intended brexit outcome, and anything that splits either the leave or remain vote could hand victory to the other side. Tories could win if they're campaigning as the party of brexit and they're led by bojo, it's easy to see enough of the people who would have voted brexit party will go tory to make it happen. Labour's only chance would be campaigning as firm pro-remain. Anything else and they'll lose a bunch of votes to lib dem, and LD will never get enough votes by itself.
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Jun 20, 2019 10:50
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oliwan posted:Ah, the UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen (used to indiscriminately kill civilians) have been declared unlawful. Ah, well, strange civilians are just soldiers without weapons and training, who are we to discriminate. seems like the war crimes elders have some growing up to do.
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Jun 20, 2019 10:52
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alphabettitouretti posted:This would be kind of a second referendum with the country voting the party it feels is most likely to deliver their intended brexit outcome, and anything that splits either the leave or remain vote could hand victory to the other side. I don't know enough to say you're wrong, but I don't feel like Labour can realistically grab a large share of the remain vote given that a lot of them are liberals and conservatives and Corbyn is the red devil. I don't think they're really positioned to be able to take a hard side in an issue where the line drawn is perpendicular to class. Unless you're suggesting Labour pick up one portion of remainers and LDems pick up the other portion and hope they can coalition against Con/Brexit leave voters. I don't see a path to majority for Labour that isn't hope you can straddle the line of Brexit and win on other issues. What am I missing?
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Jun 20, 2019 11:26
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Phigs posted:I don't know enough to say you're wrong, but I don't feel like Labour can realistically grab a large share of the remain vote given that a lot of them are liberals and conservatives and Corbyn is the red devil. I don't think they're really positioned to be able to take a hard side in an issue where the line drawn is perpendicular to class. Unless you're suggesting Labour pick up one portion of remainers and LDems pick up the other portion and hope they can coalition against Con/Brexit leave voters. I don't see a path to majority for Labour that isn't hope you can straddle the line of Brexit and win on other issues. corbyn's still got the best boots-on-the-ground machine possibly in all of europe, and if nothing else 2017 shows it bears remembering that the labour party is much more popular than corbyn, and that many corbynite policy planks are likewise very popular. if they can make brexit a functional non-issue by crowding out the remain field, they're golden - nobody trusts the lib dems on anything but brexit. it's a big if, but in order not to get et by farage the tories must commit to no deal, which might genuinely fracture the party in the middle of an election, which means that it *should* be trivial to rally around the flag
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Jun 20, 2019 11:57
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Phigs posted:I don't know enough to say you're wrong, but I don't feel like Labour can realistically grab a large share of the remain vote given that a lot of them are liberals and conservatives and Corbyn is the red devil. I don't think they're really positioned to be able to take a hard side in an issue where the line drawn is perpendicular to class. Unless you're suggesting Labour pick up one portion of remainers and LDems pick up the other portion and hope they can coalition against Con/Brexit leave voters. I don't see a path to majority for Labour that isn't hope you can straddle the line of Brexit and win on other issues. I'm probably wrong, I'm just spitballing. I don't think any other issue matters right now as much as this, and I think lots of pro-remain voters will look at the likely outcomes and go with the party that offers the best hope for stopping brexit. If labour comes out strong on the remain side, even just promising a second referendum, then they could maybe harvest enough votes from people who want remain regardless of how they feel about Corbyn. I don't think straddling the line is a good tactic now, it is only arguably useful when the tories are in charge and labour can avoid taking any responsibility for an issue and hope that the weight of brexit makes them collapse. But if they do it in a GE they'll lose votes from remainers who want remain above all else, and from brexiteers who want brexit above all else. They can try to sit in the middle ground and hope enough people vote for them out of habit, or they can take a position and perhaps gain more than they lose. If the GE comes down to a strong pro-brexit tory party versus line-straddling labour then it's lost before it has even begun. quote:it's a big if, but in order not to get et by farage the tories must commit to no deal, which might genuinely fracture the party in the middle of an election If a GE happens before Brexit the Tories could be proper hosed however it goes down. Either go hard no deal which like you say breaks them down the middle, or continue to live in fantasy land and pretend they're king poo poo dealmakers who will make the EU bend to their will with a magical solution, then lose out big time to Brexit Party and possibly fracture anyway. Labour winning might be the best outcome for their survival. it dont matter has issued a correction as of 12:11 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 12:04
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Tokamak posted:The real Sexit - the porn block, has been delayed again. Looks like sex is back on the menu, boys.
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Jun 20, 2019 12:07
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what are the odds that labour knifes corbyn (australian style) and you end up with your two major parties with fresh new leadership as you careen towards brexit +maybe a general election?
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Jun 20, 2019 12:29
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redleader posted:what are the odds that labour knifes corbyn (australian style) and you end up with your two major parties with fresh new leadership as you careen towards brexit +maybe a general election? they tried this twice, but they rewrote the rules to quash the left which ended up entrenching corbyn because they're bad at politics e. they really really hate him so they might try something, but at this point it's going to take a GE defeat to get rid of him - even a genuine scandal wouldn't do it, i think
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Jun 20, 2019 12:35
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V. Illych L. posted:even a genuine scandal wouldn't do it, i think What would that even look like. Claiming his allotment fees as expenses? Eating moldy jam?
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Jun 20, 2019 12:42
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Has that poster already elaborated on why he doesn't like Corbyn, the man?
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Jun 20, 2019 12:50
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