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I don't think Palps cares about the Sith the way that Maul or even Vader did. He just uses the identity of a Darth to scare the Trade Federation, keep his apprentices in line, and distract the Jedi. Once he's got power, he basically abandons the 'Darth Sidious' identity, and doesn't bother trying to remake Republic culture into a new Sith Empire, he just modifies it so he's got all the power. The Sith were evil, but they at least had a philosophy and guiding principles. Palpatine doesn't believe in any justification other than his own lust for power. Like, looking at the movies alone, you can probably make a case that the Sith really had been extinct for centuries, and Palpatine just used the legend as a useful tool for his own ends.
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Jun 17, 2019 08:35
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Angry Salami posted:I don't think Palps cares about the Sith the way that Maul or even Vader did. He just uses the identity of a Darth to scare the Trade Federation, keep his apprentices in line, and distract the Jedi. Once he's got power, he basically abandons the 'Darth Sidious' identity, and doesn't bother trying to remake Republic culture into a new Sith Empire, he just modifies it so he's got all the power. The Sith were evil, but they at least had a philosophy and guiding principles. Palpatine doesn't believe in any justification other than his own lust for power. I was just about to basically post this. Palpatine knows that claiming to be a Sith will make the Jedi take the first swing, so, he does. But he rules as Palpatine and not Sidious.
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Jun 17, 2019 08:41
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I'm actually pretty baffled at how the Sith Empire of old came to be and how it held up for so long. If anything, Palpatine had good sense running his Empire like that. By the way, what is Operation Cinder?
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Jun 17, 2019 09:24
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Schneider Heim posted:By the way, what is Operation Cinder? The short answer was Palpatine had some "open in case of death" orders that told anyone still loyal to the empire to just start devastating any and all planets they could, but particularly ones currently held by the Empire; both to deny those planets to the rebellion/new republic but also to punish those who failed and let Palpatine die
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Jun 17, 2019 13:05
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Execute page six hundred and sixty six.
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Jun 17, 2019 17:18
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Schneider Heim posted:I'm actually pretty baffled at how the Sith Empire of old came to be and how it held up for so long. I don't think it makes sense, and am not sure it needs to You can imagine a backwater planet being run that way, and can even imagine that planet expanding out into space (possession of spacefaring tech after all does not presuppose sophistication or institutional stability, especially in a setting like star wars where space travel is relatively casual) but it's hard to imagine said kingdom of depraved feudalists standing up for so long against something as fuckoff huge as the Republic, even if we accept the MilSF logic that the Republic's political leadership was always decadent and inept, and even if we accept the general premise that star wars writers (since the guys writing WEG sourcebooks in the 1990s) don't really take into account the scale of their universe ultimately its just one of those things i handwave and accept for the sake of parable the sith empire, like most sith things, is something that harried work-for-hire writers had to haphazardly reverse-engineer in order to make sense of lucas's prequel-era ramblings, imo anything cool that comes out of it is a plus
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Jun 17, 2019 17:38
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The reason the Sith Empire seemingly functions for so long is that BioWare has bad writers post 2011. Then you get bullshit like the Eternal Empire and Valkorion Original Character Do Not Steal.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:07
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Angry Salami posted:I don't think Palps cares about the Sith the way that Maul or even Vader did. He just uses the identity of a Darth to scare the Trade Federation, keep his apprentices in line, and distract the Jedi. Once he's got power, he basically abandons the 'Darth Sidious' identity, and doesn't bother trying to remake Republic culture into a new Sith Empire, he just modifies it so he's got all the power. The Sith were evil, but they at least had a philosophy and guiding principles. Palpatine doesn't believe in any justification other than his own lust for power. The funny thing is, the first work to actually connect Palpatine and the Sith in any way was Empire's End, the final entry of the Dark Empire comic, where Palpatine went to Korriban and the Sith ghosts there basically told him to gently caress off because he wasn't a Sith, unlike Vader. Granted this is before anyone 'knew' that Palpatine was supposed to be a Sith Lord but I think it's a take that still holds up. And is also interesting to think about, Vader being the true believer convert while Palpatine is just using it as window dressing for his personal rule. Also very appropriate because of how much Dark Empire still seems to resonate even post-Disney reboot. Even Operation Cinder is pretty much the same plan that was described in Dark Empire, where Palpatine decided that the Empire would collapse if he died so no one else could have it. Schneider Heim posted:I'm actually pretty baffled at how the Sith Empire of old came to be and how it held up for so long. If anything, Palpatine had good sense running his Empire like that. This was even at the core of Lucas's take on the Sith when he was writing the prequels, that a dark side society was impossible because they would turn on each other and so having the rule of two was the only way to maintain continuity. Is the rule of two still a thing in the new continuity? I know there's the line from TPM about the master and the apprentice, but has it been flushed out to the same formal extent as in the old EU?
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Jun 18, 2019 18:18
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Chairman Capone posted:Is the rule of two still a thing in the new continuity? I know there's the line from TPM about the master and the apprentice, but has it been flushed out to the same formal extent as in the old EU? It's sort of referenced in Lords of the Sith, or at least the "apprentice kills his master to take his place" part quote:Soon after destroying the Jedi, the Emperor had told Vader that he would one day be tempted to kill him. He’d said that the relationship between Sith apprentice and Master was symbiotic but in a delicate balance. An apprentice owed his Master loyalty. A Master owed his apprentice knowledge and must show only strength. But the obligations were reciprocal and contingent. Should either fail in his obligation, it was the duty of the other to destroy him. The Force required it. And regarding the Sith code, it is very much not a code for the masses. The Sith, under the code, are free from restraint, but the masses...those without force power, are natural inferiors and the Sith's to treat as he wants.
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Jun 18, 2019 19:41
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Few things have made star wars as dumb as Lucas's ideas about the force.
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Jun 18, 2019 19:57
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The Bane Sith rules is actually one of the good things the prequel era franchise did.
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Jun 18, 2019 23:17
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Van Dis posted:Few things have made star wars as dumb as Lucas's ideas about the force. I'd say the opposite. The idea that you have to balance out being nice with being an rear end in a top hat is ludicrous. Like if you help an old lady cross the street you have by god gone too far, and must now find a child to steal candy from in order to balance the ledgers. It inevitably leads to dumb stuff like Grey Jedi and the Eternal Empire.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:49
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galagazombie posted:I'd say the opposite. The idea that you have to balance out being nice with being an rear end in a top hat is ludicrous. Like if you help an old lady cross the street you have by god gone too far, and must now find a child to steal candy from in order to balance the ledgers. It inevitably leads to dumb stuff like Grey Jedi and the Eternal Empire. But those are ideas that came about only in response to Lucas's ideas about the Force and it having a balance from the prequels. The idea of there being a "balance to the Force" didn't exist before TPM. You can argue that stuff like Grey Jedi are dumb and misunderstand Lucas but they came about due to what Lucas came up with in the 90s and him not apparently caring enough to put his foot down about it. Though the same can also be said about the light side of the Force, something that I don't think Lucas has ever stated 'exists' in opposition to the dark side, there instead just being the Force and a dark side to it.
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Jun 20, 2019 05:25
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I'd just wish people with authority at lucasfilm would stop taking the wrong lessons from KOTOR 2. Kreia is ultimately wrong, but the people who treat her word as gospel take away the wrong lessons that Avellone intended. The Grey Jedi isn't a solution, it's a refusal to take a side, which only prolongs the choice between dogma and cruelty that the Jedi/Sith dichotomy represents. Killing the Force removes those two choices, both of which she views as a failure. But to dummies like Bioware, that means "oh he's the coolest jedi ever because he uses force lightning AND Force Heal and he's mastered the Force in light and darkness!" The way Lucas seemed to intend for the force is not as a need for balance between light and dark, but as a harmonious influence free of corruption. The Dark Side isn't the natural antithesis to the Light, it is a perversion, unnatural and driven by self-interest. You can exist without the corrupting power of the Dark Side and not be a slave to dogma. Light isn't the opposite of Dark. Darkness is the absence of Light.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:22
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Only about a 1/3rd through, but so far, Alphabet Squadron is pretty great y'all - A Rogue/Wraith Squadron comparison would probably be a bit obvious, but it definitely reminds me a lot of those books. - Heavy BSG vibes, too - Pursuant to that, it's the first novel of the new canon that I've read and thought "Yeah, this could be adapted into a series" - Chass is basically Jaylah from Star Trek Beyond, but a B-Wing pilot.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:40
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Chairman Capone posted:The idea of there being a "balance to the Force" didn't exist before TPM. The Truce at Bakura from 1994 via Wookieepida |
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Jun 20, 2019 06:41
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posted:
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Chairman Capone posted:Though the same can also be said about the light side of the Force, something that I don't think Lucas has ever stated 'exists' in opposition to the dark side, there instead just being the Force and a dark side to it. The Light Side was in some of his early drafts of Star Wars and he's talked about it in behind the scenes stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiImoO5QkcA But he's been a bit inconsistent on what "balance" actually means.
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Jun 20, 2019 07:26
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Does alphabet squadron address the severe limitations that a mixed squadron setup would inflict on the team's performance or does it embrace the "we have one of everything so we're unstoppable!" mindset?
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Jun 20, 2019 14:39
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The Last Jedi handled the ‘light side’ and the problem of balance much better than anything about Grey Jedi. TLJ Luke has realized that force users are so enormously disruptive to civilization that any truly good Jedi inevitably becomes a hermit, withdrawing from the world and seeking that Taoist state of ‘done with doing.’ It’s almost a metaphysical take on Zahn’s old idea that overuse of the force could leave you blind to the suggestions the force is giving you: by acting in the world, you inevitably cause such upset and devastation that you impede your own progress towards true understanding. The prequel Jedi failed because they were basically an order of cops, accepting spiritual mediocrity in order to retain some influence in the world. The Sith don’t give a poo poo about their destructive influence, since they’re horrible. But a truly good, ‘light side’ Jedi finds the inevitable consequences of playing space cop or trying to run a civilization so ethically compromising and debasing that they all inevitably end up like Yoda, Obi-wan, and Luke. They go live in the wilderness and meditate. Of course Luke had closed himself off from the Force; but even that is a resignation of power in favor of understanding and quiet balance. He’s still surrounded by the force; he no longer makes demands of it. Then Rey shows up to ask the necessary question - isn’t this all a little selfish? Is doing nothing really preferable to doing anything? Don’t we need some space cops to fight the people who don’t care about enlightenment and balance? And Luke finds a way to help her without doing anything but turning Kylo Ren’s rage and confusion back on him. Which is an interesting way of acting without acting, holding up a mirror.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:16
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The Force itself isn't the problem it's the doctrines that the leading orders of Force users adhere to that are so destructive. One of the deleted scenes that I wish had made it into Last Jedi is the one where Rey rushes to "save" the Islanders, not realizing it was just a party. Luke tells her that a Jedi would do nothing, because action would lead to greater retribution in the long run. But after he's pulled his prank he's actually proud of the way Rey acted because she was doing what was right in the immediate sense, rather than waffling on whether to act or not. The galaxy needs people who will act, rather than Jedi who are concerned with long term consequences. Because waiting for things to unfold can just lead to inaction and unchallenged atrocities. That's what the galaxy needs. It doesn't need the Jedi waiting for the right moment to act. It needs people willing to stand up against injustice whenever they can and inspire others to do the same. If that leads to greater conflict down the line, so be it, but inaction means abuse is allowed to happen, whole action of any sort at least has the chance to stop a greater tragedy.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:44
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Force itself isn't the problem it's the doctrines that the leading orders of Force users adhere to that are so destructive. One of the deleted scenes that I wish had made it into Last Jedi is the one where Rey rushes to "save" the Islanders, not realizing it was just a party. Luke tells her that a Jedi would do nothing, because action would lead to greater retribution in the long run. But after he's pulled his prank he's actually proud of the way Rey acted because she was doing what was right in the immediate sense, rather than waffling on whether to act or not. The galaxy needs people who will act, rather than Jedi who are concerned with long term consequences. Because waiting for things to unfold can just lead to inaction and unchallenged atrocities. Yeah...most deleted scenes I can see why they were cut and usually agree...but that one in particular is sorely missed. Especially given that it's worked into both the comic and novel adaptation
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Jun 20, 2019 15:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:Does alphabet squadron address the severe limitations that a mixed squadron setup would inflict on the team's performance or does it embrace the "we have one of everything so we're unstoppable!" mindset? I have a feeling they might end up there by the end of the book, but at least in the beginning, they flunk the hell out of a training exercise, even damaging a ship, partly because Yrica can't manage the unstable personalities of the squad, but also because it's just really difficult to coordinate ships of varying armament and speed like a regular squadron. "Alphabet Squadron" itself is a title mockingly bestowed upon the group by the other pilots on the ship they're based off of. And they're essentially locked into the mixed-squadron setup because it's a limited-resources intelligence operation. All the ships are ones the pilots brought with them (or stole, in Yrica's case) I'm currently at the point where they've been cleared for non-combat operations as sort of a last chance. Overall, I'm really digging it so far and am eager to get back into it.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:54
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The Cosmic Balance religion wasn't a Force thing, though, it was explicitly an anti-Force religion (which that article also specifically says) that viewed the Force as basically a perversion against a spiritual karma type philosophy. Keep in mind the book was also written at a time when 'Jedi' generally meant 'Force-user' and was applied to light and dark siders. Truce at Bakura is a dumb book but it's one I have a lot of love for given it was one of the first Star Wars things I ever read. One of my favorite ridiculous things about it is how after the DVD re-released inserted Hayden Christiansen into the end of ROTJ, people debated online whether that invalidated Truce at Bakura's use of the original Force ghost description of Anakin.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:58
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Chairman Capone posted:The Cosmic Balance religion wasn't a Force thing, though, it was explicitly an anti-Force religion (which that article also specifically says) that viewed the Force as basically a perversion against a spiritual karma type philosophy. Keep in mind the book was also written at a time when 'Jedi' generally meant 'Force-user' and was applied to light and dark siders. It is pretty dumb from what I remember but it had some interesting ideas like the fact Luke had been severely hosed up by getting electrocuted repeatedly by force lightning, and the good scene of Leia telling Anakin's force ghost that just because he did a good thing at the end of his life doesn't make up for him being a mass-murdering rear end in a top hat for 20+ years, not to mention torturing her, so no, she's not going to forgive him.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:Does alphabet squadron address the severe limitations that a mixed squadron setup would inflict on the team's performance or does it embrace the "we have one of everything so we're unstoppable!" mindset? Anyone who is good at the old Xwing flight sims knows that mixed squadrons are both good, cool, AND effective. 
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Jun 20, 2019 16:31
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I am starting a mass boycott of that book because it is not called Aurabesh Squadron, disrespecting sixty years of Star Wars canon.
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Jun 20, 2019 17:16
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For every copy you don’t buy, I’ll buy three.
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Jun 20, 2019 18:23
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Alexander Freed is a good author so I'm sure the book is good, but Alphabet Squadron is a supremely dumb title and no one will ever convince me otherwise.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:30
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Xenomrph posted:For every copy you don’t buy, I’ll buy three. SEVENTY YEARS of Star Wars canon!!
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Jun 20, 2019 19:35
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Xenomrph posted:Anyone who is good at the old Xwing flight sims knows that mixed squadrons are both good, cool, AND effective. Tie avenger flights flying coverage for a wing of assault gunboats
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Jun 20, 2019 19:44
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Chairman Capone posted:Alexander Freed is a good author so I'm sure the book is good, but Alphabet Squadron is a supremely dumb title and no one will ever convince me otherwise. dinner squadron
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Jun 20, 2019 19:48
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Because people might like it, here'sStar Wars rewritten as an Icelandic Saga https://tattuinardoelasaga.wordpress.com/ quote:Lúkr went to the meal table, and said that he thought that the short slave had been stolen.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:10
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Does anybody here collect rare SW books? I have a lot of the 70s Del Rey books in good condition, but it's hard to parse out which ones are actually worth anything on eBay/Amazon. As far as I can tell from the gutter codes, they're all first printings. "Star Wars From The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" by George Lucas (but really Alan Dean Foster) is probably the most notable one, but online sales vary wildly from $50 to over $200. It looks like most of the Han Solo books are going for $10 each. Are there any particular titles I should look out for?
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Jun 24, 2019 04:47
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Anything that isn't old probably isn't worth much since they printed millions of copies of it.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:58
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Yeah, I feel like first printings of the movie novelizations might be the only ones that would potentially be worth anything. I know the first edition of the Star Wars novelization had a photo spread in it, I'm not sure if the others did also but those might be worth something. I'm kind of surprised the 70s Han Solo books are even going for ten bucks, to be honest. Maybe Splinter of the Mind's Eye might be worth more since it got stuff used from it in the Solo movie? That being said, you never know what might happen. I remember a few years ago the X-wing books were out of print for a short period of time and the price for them skyrocketed on eBay.
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Jun 24, 2019 05:03
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Check to see if you have a copy of Leia, Princess of Alderaan with the accidental Nazi slogan
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Jun 24, 2019 05:05
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I went and dug out the rest, turns out I have fewer than I thought: - 1976 movie novelisation - Han Solo's Revenge - Han Solo at Stars' End - Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu - Lando Calrissian and the Flamewind of Oseon It's too bad I don't have a complete set of either trilogy. All the rest of my Star Wars hardbacks are 90s Bantam releases and that awesome AC Crispin Solo trilogy.
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Jun 24, 2019 05:40
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Someday I might try to get the Daley Han books in hardcover. My paperback from the 90s is beat the gently caress up, and it's something I may read again. Barnes and Noble combined the Crispin trilogy into a single volume when Solo came out last year. Looks kind of cool. I think it was a missed opportunity though, and they should have put both trilogies into it. As I recall Crispin had headings that said Han Solo's Revenge takes place during this interlude, and such.
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Jun 24, 2019 06:21
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Chairman Capone posted:Alexander Freed is a good author so I'm sure the book is good, but Alphabet Squadron is a supremely dumb title and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Alphabet Squadron sounds like the parent company of Google starting a fighter plane division
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Jun 24, 2019 15:04
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Casimir Radon posted:Someday I might try to get the Daley Han books in hardcover. My paperback from the 90s is beat the gently caress up, and it's something I may read again. If I recall right, I think all of the Daley Trilogy is meant to be set around the halfway mark of Crispin's final book. I prefer the Daley trilogy but I think it's impressive how Crispin was able to basically synthesize every bit of detail on Han's life established by that point, from authors who had wildly different takes on the character and no consideration of fitting anything in with other authors, and not only did she work them all together but make a good story out of it.
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Jun 24, 2019 20:38
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