FFV 4JF 2019: The Zerker Risk was Calculated, but man, am I bad at axe

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFV 4JF 2019: The Zerker Risk was Calculated, but man, am I bad at axe

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Poque: Sep 11, 2003; =^-^=

Mogki posted:

One the Blue Magic topic:
Can you get Mind Blast from Wendigo via Confuse?

doesn't Wendigo just cast it on you normally?

# ? Jun 20, 2019 15:47

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:08

Mogki: Aug 2, 2016

Poque posted:

doesn't Wendigo just cast it on you normally?

Maybe? It's been so long since I did a playthrough that I can't remember.
The Blue Magic checklist on GameFAQs has it listed as not part of Wendigo's normal moveset.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 15:54

wodenspoon: May 2, 2018

Just went through the fight this morning--it will cast it on you normally (at least for me, playing on GBA) I saw 2-3 casts over the fight. You should be able to pick it up there no problem.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 15:56

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Mogki posted:

One the Blue Magic topic:
Can you get Mind Blast from Wendigo via Confuse?

It's part of his normal moveset

# ? Jun 20, 2019 16:12

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

Jesus Christ did you ever dodge a bullet

My understanding is that Samuel Clemens is being sarcastic--Bards before songs are the worst class possible.

edit: now that I think about it maybe you are being sarcastic too! :v:

# ? Jun 20, 2019 16:44

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

The future brings succ...

# ? Jun 20, 2019 16:56

mp5: Jan 1, 2005; Stroke of luck!

I'm trying to plan out killing Omega with White Mage, Summoner, Dancer, Thief to get a Triple Crown so that my second run is somehow different than my Winner Risk run.

I've gotten as far as Hermes Sandals on everyone, casting Carbuncle, Dispelling Shell on Omega and then spamming Ramuh with one character, the Summoner

The Dancer probably grabs White Magic to reapply Shell/Reflect/Whatever, but if my Summoner dies it's probably GG anyway since I can't re-float myself and I'll just get quaked.

Also I think everyone probably needs Equip Ribbons so they don't get Instant Killed.And probably other dancer gear so they don't get confused (Ribbon doesn't block confuse IIRC).

I think that setup stops everything Omega can do to me except Mustard Bomb, which still kills me

What am I missing here?

e: Flamethrower too, ugh

mp5 fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 20, 2019

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:18

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Well, finally powered my way to NeoExdeath and yikes, that sure was a steep spike. Barely made it past TwinTania, and I'm constantly at risk of getting killed by enemies that don't give up any experience in the final part of the Void. Almagahest predictably wipes out my Black Mage and Geomancer easily, and the Berserkers are no good. No shell access means I'm stuck going back and regrouping completely, with plenty of grinding now mandatory. Blech.

So my new plan is to grab the Chicken Knife, which I didn't bother with before less because I want its awesome power and more because I'd like to run away from those useless battles in the final stretch of the void every once in awhile. The Thor Axe and the Rune Axe do...nothing against NeoExdeath even when they hit? Huh? Guess I need another Earth Hammer too. Then Odin's fire shield and a couple of fire rings so I can heal myself with Black Magic. Magic lamp too. Is there anything else I need that I'm forgetting?

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:19

mp5: Jan 1, 2005; Stroke of luck!

Some Guy TT posted:

The Thor Axe and the Rune Axe do...nothing against NeoExdeath even when they hit? Huh? Guess I need another Earth Hammer too. Then Odin's fire shield and a couple of fire rings so I can heal myself with Black Magic. Magic lamp too. Is there anything else I need that I'm forgetting?

Do your berserkers have a high level black magic command assigned to them? That helps with the Rune Axe a lot.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:25

Jose Valasquez: Apr 8, 2005

OzFactor posted:

My understanding is that Samuel Clemens is being sarcastic--Bards before songs are the worst class possible.

edit: now that I think about it maybe you are being sarcastic too!

He's playing without all jobs available from the first crystal so he gets to do it with Freelancers instead :ssh:

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:30

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

mp5 posted:

I'm trying to plan out killing Omega with White Mage, Summoner, Dancer, Thief to get a Triple Crown so that my second run is somehow different than my Winner Risk run.

I've gotten as far as Hermes Sandals on everyone, casting Carbuncle, Dispelling Shell on Omega and then spamming Ramuh with one character, the Summoner

The Dancer probably grabs White Magic to reapply Shell/Reflect/Whatever, but if my Summoner dies it's probably GG anyway since I can't re-float myself and I'll just get quaked.

Also I think everyone probably needs Equip Ribbons so they don't get Instant Killed.And probably other dancer gear so they don't get confused (Ribbon doesn't block confuse IIRC).

I think that setup stops everything Omega can do to me except Mustard Bomb, which still kills me

What am I missing here?

e: Flamethrower too, ugh

Wouldn't you be better off with Chicken Knife Sword Dances? How much is Ramuh actually doing?

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:35

A_Raving_Loon: Dec 12, 2008; Subtle
Quick to Anger

Some Guy TT posted:

Well, finally powered my way to NeoExdeath and yikes, that sure was a steep spike. Barely made it past TwinTania, and I'm constantly at risk of getting killed by enemies that don't give up any experience in the final part of the Void. Almagahest predictably wipes out my Black Mage and Geomancer easily, and the Berserkers are no good. No shell access means I'm stuck going back and regrouping completely, with plenty of grinding now mandatory. Blech.

So my new plan is to grab the Chicken Knife, which I didn't bother with before less because I want its awesome power and more because I'd like to run away from those useless battles in the final stretch of the void every once in awhile. The Thor Axe and the Rune Axe do...nothing against NeoExdeath even when they hit? Huh? Guess I need another Earth Hammer too. Then Odin's fire shield and a couple of fire rings so I can heal myself with Black Magic. Magic lamp too. Is there anything else I need that I'm forgetting?

Cast Break on the bottom right segment. It'll have poor accuracy, but it only needs to land once and then Almagest is off the table.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:35

Mogki: Aug 2, 2016

wodenspoon posted:

Just went through the fight this morning--it will cast it on you normally (at least for me, playing on GBA) I saw 2-3 casts over the fight. You should be able to pick it up there no problem.

Sweet, thanks for the confirmation.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:40

Ace Transmuter: May 19, 2017; I like video games

fool_of_sound posted:

All the 'Equip Weapon' abilities come with their class' strength score, and all magic abilities come with a magic score.

This is mostly but not entirely accurate. For instance, the Time Mage's "Equip Rods" doesn't transfer any stats at all. "Equip Whips" and "Equip Bows" give their respective class's Strength & Speed scores. "Equip Harps" gives the Bard's Magic and Speed scores, making it one of the best support skills for Berserkers.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:43

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

Some Guy TT posted:

Well, finally powered my way to NeoExdeath and yikes, that sure was a steep spike. Barely made it past TwinTania, and I'm constantly at risk of getting killed by enemies that don't give up any experience in the final part of the Void. Almagahest predictably wipes out my Black Mage and Geomancer easily, and the Berserkers are no good. No shell access means I'm stuck going back and regrouping completely, with plenty of grinding now mandatory. Blech.

So my new plan is to grab the Chicken Knife, which I didn't bother with before less because I want its awesome power and more because I'd like to run away from those useless battles in the final stretch of the void every once in awhile. The Thor Axe and the Rune Axe do...nothing against NeoExdeath even when they hit? Huh? Guess I need another Earth Hammer too. Then Odin's fire shield and a couple of fire rings so I can heal myself with Black Magic. Magic lamp too. Is there anything else I need that I'm forgetting?

First of all, yes, run from everything in the Void, always. Second, Axes are fine against NED but remember that they have a weird damage formula with a lot of variance and low accuracy, so they will miss from time to time and occasionally they'll hit for low damage. But the Titan Axe is very strong and the Rune Axe is incredibly strong if you give it to a Berserker with level 6 Black Magic. It auto-crits for 10MP a hit (I think) and is boosted by your MPWR, which with level 6 Black Magic is very high.

Your Geomancer should be either nuking with Flare, or, if you are worried about MP (which you shouldn't be if you have a pile of Elixirs), give her an Air Knife and have her Gaia, which will always cast Wind Slash against NED.

If you're really having trouble, consider grinding for XP and Elixirs in the Ronka area of the Void, particularly in the last screen before the transition to the village. The Level Trickers there will drop Elixirs and every mob will give decent XP. You're probably going to need to survive at least one Almagest unless you really want to do what A_Raving_Loon is suggesting and try to Break that piece. But honestly it is not worth trying unless you're using save states--it's a very, very low chance to hit. I'm sure by the time I've posted this someone will have done the math and posted it.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 17:46

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

Also if you're on the snes version, there's two dummy targets on NED that only Berserkers and Meteo hit because gently caress you.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:03

Samuel Clemens: Oct 4, 2013; I think we should call the Avengers.

derra posted:

You're not in the clear until you have another job for Adamantoise

I really did dodge a bullet there. Does mean I'll have to play with Freelancers a while longer.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:03

mp5: Jan 1, 2005; Stroke of luck!

OzFactor posted:

Wouldn't you be better off with Chicken Knife Sword Dances? How much is Ramuh actually doing?

I haven't tried yet, I'm just sort of plotting things out. The concern I can think off offhand is that I'd have a 50% chance to do Not Swords Dance and still draw a counterattack for my trouble, while Ramuh would at least be guaranteed damage.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:05

derra: Dec 29, 2012

mp5 posted:

I'm trying to plan out killing Omega with White Mage, Summoner, Dancer, Thief to get a Triple Crown so that my second run is somehow different than my Winner Risk run.

I've gotten as far as Hermes Sandals on everyone, casting Carbuncle, Dispelling Shell on Omega and then spamming Ramuh with one character, the Summoner

The Dancer probably grabs White Magic to reapply Shell/Reflect/Whatever, but if my Summoner dies it's probably GG anyway since I can't re-float myself and I'll just get quaked.

Also I think everyone probably needs Equip Ribbons so they don't get Instant Killed.And probably other dancer gear so they don't get confused (Ribbon doesn't block confuse IIRC).

I think that setup stops everything Omega can do to me except Mustard Bomb, which still kills me

What am I missing here?

e: Flamethrower too, ugh

Hermes on everyone, use the status bug with Bone Mail to make your Thief confuse immune, Rainbow Dress the Dancer and WM. Thief and Summoner have White. Come in with float. Shell on everyone, CK Dance after Wave Cannon and Search.

People are going to die. Get them back up and in, you have White and a pile of Phoenix Downs and Elixirs. Quake is not cast frequently even if all of your characters lose float. The only unrecoverable incident is if he Atomic Rays you, which isn't that frequent, or if the Dancer gets Encircled (and you can't kill him with Ramuh). You have Arise and AoE healing, you can get people back on their feet!

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:07

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

mp5 posted:

I haven't tried yet, I'm just sort of plotting things out. The concern I can think off offhand is that I'd have a 50% chance to do Not Swords Dance and still draw a counterattack for my trouble, while Ramuh would at least be guaranteed damage.

Omega only counter-attacks on hp loss, and your jitterbug/waltz are never getting through Omega's MDEF. :v:

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:07

derra: Dec 29, 2012

mp5 posted:

I haven't tried yet, I'm just sort of plotting things out. The concern I can think off offhand is that I'd have a 50% chance to do Not Swords Dance and still draw a counterattack for my trouble, while Ramuh would at least be guaranteed damage.

If you don't do damage, you don't eat counters. Jitterbug and the MP drain won't provoke them.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:08

mp5: Jan 1, 2005; Stroke of luck!

derra posted:

Hermes on everyone, use the status bug with Bone Mail to make your Thief confuse immune, Rainbow Dress the Dancer and WM. Thief and Summoner have White. Come in with float. Shell on everyone, CK Dance after Wave Cannon and Search.

People are going to die. Get them back up and in, you have White and a pile of Phoenix Downs and Elixirs. Quake is not cast frequently even if all of your characters lose float. The only unrecoverable incident is if he Atomic Rays you, which isn't that frequent, or if the Dancer gets Encircled (and you can't kill him with Ramuh). You have Arise and AoE healing, you can get people back on their feet!

My understanding is the dancer won't get Encircled if they are immune to Instant Death, which the Ribbon does.

This helps, thanks!

e: What's this Bone Mail bug you're referring to?

e2: On GBA in case that matters

mp5 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 20, 2019

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:12

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

It's also just a general rule that you are never going to win a battle of attrition with something that can use Encircle no matter how powerful your tanking ability is (non-Chemist division, at least). You just can't beat Omega without a bunch of things going right under regular circumstances (i.e. not Quickleaking or stunlocking). If a bunch of Dances don't go your way, you die and try again.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:16

MagusDraco: Nov 11, 2011; even speedwagon was trolled

Kyrosiris posted:

Also if you're on the snes version, there's two dummy targets on NED that only Berserkers and Meteo hit because gently caress you.

Also rapid fire

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:18

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

mp5 posted:

My understanding is the dancer won't get Encircled if they are immune to Instant Death, which the Ribbon does.

code:

ATTACK TYPE (HEX: 29) (Countdown/Erase: Condemn, Circle, Possess, Failure 
(Elixir+Eyedrop))
1) If Target is Heavy, attack misses;  do not follow any more steps.
2) Follow Hit Determination for Magical Attacks Steps (6.2.2).
3) Inflict status effects:
   Condemn = Coundown status
   Circle, Posses = Removed from battle status
   Failure = HP leak status (status duration = 255)

Only being Heavy stops Encircle. The Ribbon doesn't make you Heavy, the only way to make yourself Heavy is with a Mix.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:18

Bregor: May 31, 2013; People are idiots, Leslie.

mp5 posted:

My understanding is the dancer won't get Encircled if they are immune to Instant Death, which the Ribbon does.

This helps, thanks!

e: What's this Bone Mail bug you're referring to?

e2: On GBA in case that matters

I think it�s the status immunities bug. If you equip gear with status immunities, get in an encounter and run/win, then switch gear, you�ll keep the old gear�s status immunity for the next battle.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:20

mp5: Jan 1, 2005; Stroke of luck!

OzFactor posted:

code:

ATTACK TYPE (HEX: 29) (Countdown/Erase: Condemn, Circle, Possess, Failure 
(Elixir+Eyedrop))
1) If Target is Heavy, attack misses;  do not follow any more steps.
2) Follow Hit Determination for Magical Attacks Steps (6.2.2).
3) Inflict status effects:
   Condemn = Coundown status
   Circle, Posses = Removed from battle status
   Failure = HP leak status (status duration = 255)

Only being Heavy stops Encircle. The Ribbon doesn't make you Heavy, the only way to make yourself Heavy is with a Mix.

Welp that sucks.

Thank you for all the info! We'll see how it goes.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:27

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

mp5 posted:

Welp that sucks.

Thank you for all the info! We'll see how it goes.

Worth noting that you can evade Encircle, which makes me refer you to the :words:

OFS wrote about magic evasion on gear: https://pastebin.com/F1pNMJjZ

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:30

derra: Dec 29, 2012

Bregor posted:

I think it’s the status immunities bug. If you equip gear with status immunities, get in an encounter and run/win, then switch gear, you’ll keep the old gear’s status immunity for the next battle.

It's this. Thieves can't equip confuse immunity gear except the bone mail (or Equip ribbons Rainbow Dress? Does this bug persist through job changes???) and you should use White instead of Equip Ribbons.

If Ribbons blocked Encircle Dancers would be godlike.

I forgot to mention, but Lamia's Tiaras give confuse immunity to the mages.

derra fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 20, 2019

# ? Jun 20, 2019 18:39

derra: Dec 29, 2012

Some Guy TT posted:

Well, finally powered my way to NeoExdeath and yikes, that sure was a steep spike. Barely made it past TwinTania, and I'm constantly at risk of getting killed by enemies that don't give up any experience in the final part of the Void. Almagahest predictably wipes out my Black Mage and Geomancer easily, and the Berserkers are no good. No shell access means I'm stuck going back and regrouping completely, with plenty of grinding now mandatory. Blech.

So my new plan is to grab the Chicken Knife, which I didn't bother with before less because I want its awesome power and more because I'd like to run away from those useless battles in the final stretch of the void every once in awhile. The Thor Axe and the Rune Axe do...nothing against NeoExdeath even when they hit? Huh? Guess I need another Earth Hammer too. Then Odin's fire shield and a couple of fire rings so I can heal myself with Black Magic. Magic lamp too. Is there anything else I need that I'm forgetting?

Do not take off your Hermes. Use an elixir if you need to heal.

You have Shell access via the Wonder Wand.

derra fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jun 20, 2019

# ? Jun 20, 2019 19:10

TheDisreputableDog: Oct 13, 2005

My blue mages rolled to the Water crystal easily - vampire seems good.

Next job is Mystic Knight, which I never really used when I beat this for reals.

Seems like a pretty good team, so far!

# ? Jun 20, 2019 20:42

wodenspoon: May 2, 2018

TheDisreputableDog posted:

My blue mages rolled to the Water crystal easily - vampire seems good.

Next job is Mystic Knight, which I never really used when I beat this for reals.

Seems like a pretty good team, so far!

Depending on your version, Vampire ranges from pretty good to embarrassingly good.

You do indeed have a good team so far. You've already got more boss clowning in your future than you can shake a stick at!

# ? Jun 20, 2019 20:47

Lotus Aura: Aug 16, 2009; KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

I got one fight on Crescent Island heading towards the forest to pick up the Black Chocobo.

So of course, on a run where I don't have any Berserkers, this happens.

Goodbye, glorious friends.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 21:59

Shyfted One: May 9, 2008

I got 2 Kaiser Knuckles from the 3 Steel Fist chest in the Pyramid. I do have Monk, but at that point I'm about to get Hermes Sandals so they were on for all of 5 minutes.

Actually, I had lots of doubles this run. Even got double Reflect Rings.

Maybe it's to make up for this garbage party of Monk, Red Mage, Berserker, Thief.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 22:21

Alxprit: Feb 7, 2015; <click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

The one time I got Kaiser Knuckles from that trap encounter I also had a Samurai so I could actually use it and let the Samurai Masamune-Haste the Monk instead. It worked pretty well!

# ? Jun 20, 2019 22:43

Funktastic: Jul 23, 2013

No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

Jesus Christ did you ever dodge a bullet

My one Classic run ever was enough to make me swear to job fair if I ever got stuck with four Thieves or White Mages on Ifrit and Byblos again

one year 5/10 runs were white mage starts and I was playing on an actual gba.

You may not be able to lose, but it's way too long and boring for me to do legit anymore.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 23:07

Siminu: Sep 6, 2005; No, you are the magic man.; Hell Gem

W.T. Fits posted:

If you're playing the GBA version, the Beastmaster's !Calm ability can lock down Omega easily, so just have three of your guys spam that while the fourth one hurls lightning scrolls at it until it finally falls apart.

How the hell do you kill that guy without !Calm. Calm was a godsend, thank you!

My run is down, and so is my first time finishing this game. Great, strange experience.

Ninja / Freelancer / Dragoon / Beastmaster

!Calm!Calm!Calm with Lightning Scrolls and a Rune Axe.

Dual-Wield Freelancer made this trivial, as Power Rod and Masamune lets me berserk before the tidal wave hits and I never need to take off my boots of speed. Then just tonnes of Phoenix Down.

Hempuli posted:

Oh hey, I've kind of wanted to do one of these, so here goes:

I'll donate $10 for every screenshot of either NED, Shinryu or Omega being beaten with only one team-member alive, up to $100. Preferably with the teammates falling to enemy attacks, but eh, feel free to set things up however you want.

3x Beastmaster dragon releases, then just chucking phoenix down and Fuma Shurikens until his Almagest left me alone. When the heat turned up for the final part, I jumped over everything.

# ? Jun 20, 2019 23:57

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Cattail Prophet posted:

I will donate $5 (capped at $50) for each goon who views and screenshots every optional cutscene in their run, where cutscene is arbitrarily defined as "any time a party member has a line of dialogue."

When I finish my run, I'll post every scene I found as a guide so you know what all you need to do. Also, uh, FFV has a heck of a lot of optional stuff, as in I'm pretty sure a complete submission is going to be over a hundred images, so you probably shouldn't just post them all directly in the thread. Personally I plan on using the screenshot LP test poster (This is close enough to being an LP, right?). If you're interested, here's some extra details that I didn't want to clog up this post with. I also put in every optional cutscene available prior to the Wind Shrine as an example to give you an idea of how thorough I'm being.

quote:

Dialogue that Krile has before joining the party/Galuf has after leaving it (I'm not sure if there's actually anything optional that falls under this, but I'm covering my bases)

In at least the PSX and Super Famicom versions, if you take Krile to World 2 Kuza Castle after Moore without already triggering that cutscene, she'll turn into her grandpa inexplicably. :v:

Bregor posted:

Yeah I think Lix has one and Istory has one. Does Istory survive the Void? Can�t remember.

By all rights if you miss these two songs it's no wonder if you think Bard sucks, since they're two of the strongest songs you get (It's the Confuse/Charm song and Stop song, respectively)

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jun 21, 2019

# ? Jun 21, 2019 00:15

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

My blue mages rolled to the Water crystal easily - vampire seems good.

Next job is Mystic Knight, which I never really used when I beat this for reals.

Seems like a pretty good team, so far!

Blue Mage/Mystic Knight is half of the most broken team in the game, so yeah, it's pretty good.

# ? Jun 21, 2019 00:33

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:08

Ibblebibble: Nov 12, 2013

Last night I found out that Siren with MNK is hilariously easy. Killed her before her phase change.

# ? Jun 21, 2019 00:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFV 4JF 2019: The Zerker Risk was Calculated, but man, am I bad at axe

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