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RCarr posted:Oh, my mistake, I thought you were saying you are still living in the US and making sub $10 an hour. Until the legal raise up to $10 an hour in 2017, EMTs in Arizona were making $9.65. Yay monopolies!
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Jun 20, 2019 21:44
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Azathoth posted:Flight 19 gets mentioned a lot with USS Cyclops, a WW2 collier (coal carrier and distributor) that disappeared without a trace in the same area. There were 4 ships in her class, and aside from the one that was converted to an early aircraft carrier, they all disappeared without a trace. Since the wrecks have never been found, no one knows why they sank. I thought coal was clean
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Jun 20, 2019 21:51
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Arsenic Lupin posted:... oops. What had been done wrong? Bad choice of steel? Before then ships had been riveted, but by switching to welding they could finish a ship in 28 days. However, when the ships entered cold enough water the steel became brittle and could develop cracks. When they were riveted plates the crack could only spread to the edge of a plate, but through a weld a crack could continue. So they attached a big steel band around the outside of the ships. If anyone here a New York Times subscriber, here's their contemporary reporting on one of the wrecks: 65 Feared Lost as Liberty Ship Breaks in Half on Alaskan Run https://www.nytimes.com/1944/04/24/archives/65-feared-lost-as-liberty-ship-breaks-in-half-on-alaskan-run-65.html edit: So yes, bad steel, that was no longer mitigated due to a change in construction technique HelleSpud has a new favorite as of 22:24 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 22:19
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BattleMaster posted:I think it would be helpful if this attitude was more prevalent these days. Not so much in terms of acceptance but at least recognition. Yeah. Same basic idea was behind all the TWA 800 conspiracies too.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:28
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BattleMaster posted:I think it would be helpful if this attitude was more prevalent these days. Not so much in terms of acceptance but at least recognition. The Titanic was designed to float. poo poo happens.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:31
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Arsenic Lupin posted:They were built in the middle of a war, and you fought with the planes they built. Lots of military planes have had fascinating bugs and you just learned never to turn left while descending, or whatever. (I made that one up. However, it is true that biplanes turned more easily in one direction than another thanks to the gyroscopic effect of propellor.) It was due to the rotary engine. The crankshaft stayed still and the engine and prop spun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine
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Jun 20, 2019 22:59
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When the US finally got ahold of a flyable Zero, the fact that it turned significantly better in one direction was a big revelation that helped develop effective countermeasures (the others being that the float carburetor meant it didn't dive particularly well and it that it had trouble rolling at high speed). So the standard tactic if one was behind you became to do a power dive and roll to the right, picking up as much speed as possible before turning. It wouldn't get them into a position to shoot at the Zero, but they would live to fight another day.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:07
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In 1970s Wichita, Kansas the main thing on everyone's mind was BTK. So when a woman and her husband began to report threatening letters and poetry to the police in late 1978, the police were a bit preoccupied. Ruth Finley was being targeted. She passed away in late May of this year.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:16
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This is why I'm always bothered when people say you're more likely to die in a car accident than a plane crash. Yes, it may be true that statistically car crashes with fatalities are more common but if you are involved in a plane crash it's usually not up to you whether you survive or not. Most of the time it's not up to anybody at all! Edit: and even then, Emergency Services may be able to help you and prevent a fatality in the event of an otherwise fatal car crash. With a plane failure there's only one person who can save you and if he happens to be suicidal or someone besides Sully, you're screwed. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 03:36 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 03:22
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It’s not up to you whether you die in an auto accident, either, or you wouldn’t die in an auto accident. Plane travel is safer than driving by literally every sane and meaningful metric, and it’s not like it’s even close. That includes suicidal pilots, freak bird strikes, and emergency service response times. The only thing driving has over flying safety-wise is the illusion that you’re in charge. I get it, because I have the same problem with my fate being completely and explicitly in someone else’s hands, but the reality is that the “you being in charge” part is a lot more likely to cause you to get yourself killed reaching to turn the knob on the radio than for you to pull off some Mark “Skid” McCormick maneuver to escape from between the drunk mini-van driver and the trucker with the disabled monitor on his illegal 18th straight hour of driving.
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Jun 21, 2019 03:48
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My point is, auto accidents are sometimes preventable on your part or the other party's. A plane accident is not. Therefore they're more dangerous despite the statistics. I just think people don't take this into account and they really should. 
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Jun 21, 2019 03:53
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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:It’s not up to you whether you die in an auto accident, either, or you wouldn’t die in an auto accident. Plane travel is safer than driving by literally every sane and meaningful metric, and it’s not like it’s even close. That includes suicidal pilots, freak bird strikes, and emergency service response times.
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Jun 21, 2019 03:58
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CJacobs posted:My point is, auto accidents are sometimes preventable on your part or the other party's. A plane accident is not. Therefore they're more dangerous despite the statistics. I just think people don't take this into account and they really should. th....what?
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Jun 21, 2019 04:02
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It seems pretty simple to me? Car accident, you may die. Plane accident, you will die. Car accident, someone may be able to help you survive. Plane accident, the help you can receive is very limited.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:03
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CJacobs posted:My point is, auto accidents are sometimes preventable on your part or the other party's. A plane accident is not. Therefore they're more dangerous despite the statistics. I just think people don't take this into account and they really should. I'm sure there are a lot of near-misses in aviation that you never hear about because everything turned out fine and those kind of stories don't make ripples in the media. Also, ignoring the statistics that state automobiles are many, many times more likely to kill you than flying but saying flying is actually more dangerous is some serious galaxy brain poo poo Like people die every day from poo poo like someone in the opposite lane having one of their tires blow out, suddenly sending them careening into an oncoming vehicle before either driver has time to even process what's happening Revins has a new favorite as of 04:08 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 04:05
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I didn't say they are more likely to kill you. I said that if an accident happens it is less likely you will survive. You could have a thousand plane flights and not have an accident, but if you do have an accident you will probably die. Likewise, if you ride in a thousand cars you may get in an accident and survive it.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:07
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CJacobs posted:It seems pretty simple to me? Car accident, you may die. Plane accident, you will die. Car accident, someone may be able to help you survive. Plane accident, the help you can receive is very limited. As a bonus, you may get the rare opportunity to enjoy the exquisite taste of long pig in the event of a plane crash.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:07
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CJacobs posted:My point is, auto accidents are sometimes preventable on your part or the other party's. A plane accident is not. Therefore they're more dangerous despite the statistics. I just think people don't take this into account and they really should. I think maybe you’re clowning around, but just in case: The auto accidents that were prevented by you or the other person are already counted in the statistics by not being counted in the statistics. Because you did not die, you did not get counted among the people who died in auto accidents. Therefore, even if 50% of all possible fatal auto accidents are prevented by superior driver awareness, the other 50% that _do_ happen still add up to enough fatalities/mile to blow air travel out of the, uh, water. PetraCore posted:Although sometimes people use those stats to justify not buckling up or something, which is dumb. This is true, but it’s true of all arguments against wearing seatbelts.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:09
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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:I think maybe you’re clowning around, but just in case: The auto accidents that were prevented by you or the other person are already counted in the statistics by not being counted in the statistics. Because you did not die, you did not get counted among the people who died in auto accidents. Therefore, even if 50% of all possible fatal auto accidents are prevented by superior driver awareness, the other 50% that _do_ happen still add up to enough fatalities/mile to blow air travel out of the, uh, water. I think we're talking about two different things here, maybe I should have phrased my initial post better. When people talk about your likeliness to die in a car accident, they do not take into account external factors, only the frequency that the accident is fatal. Your likeliness to survive a situation is not based purely on probability. I'm just saying that it's not a very useful statistic but people still quote it all the time.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:11
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I mean, yeah, in the event of a serious accident, you are way more likely to die with a plane vs. a car. The difference is that serious plane crashes are so much rarer than serious car crashes that flying is still much safer than driving, on average. The crashes are more dangerous; the mode of transportation isn't.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:20
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Nothing the average person does in their average day is anywhere near as dangerous as driving. We have all just decided to collectively deny and dismiss this because the automobile is so neccessary and convenient in America. [Unfortunately I am not able to ignore that fact, no idea why, I drive but kinda hate it.]
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Jun 21, 2019 04:21
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CJacobs posted:My point is, auto accidents are sometimes preventable on your part or the other party's. A plane accident is not. Therefore they're more dangerous despite the statistics. I just think people don't take this into account and they really should. Considering the way I drive, both I and you are safer if I'm on a plane. e: This is not intentional. The problem is that there are so many things that are more interesting to think about than the act of driving a car, and I keep thinking about them.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:26
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Part of my fear of flying vs driving is also the idea of knowing you're going to die but can't do anything about it. Say I get t-boned by a drunk truck driver, that's poo poo yeah, but it's (theoretically) fairly instantaneous. What freaks me out is the idea of something going catastrophically wrong with the plane, then having to plummet for a minute or two and just knowing what's coming up.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:29
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I didn't mean to cause a big misunderstanding about it. I'm not debating that the statistic itself is wrong because that wouldn't really make sense, I'm just saying that people use it to come to the wrong conclusion and treat plane travel as if it's infallible. Like I said, I phrased my post poorly, I should have emphasized more that my problem was with the people who use it than the way it's calculated.
CJacobs has a new favorite as of 04:39 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 04:36
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Whitlam posted:Part of my fear of flying vs driving is also the idea of knowing you're going to die but can't do anything about it. Say I get t-boned by a drunk truck driver, that's poo poo yeah, but it's (theoretically) fairly instantaneous. What freaks me out is the idea of something going catastrophically wrong with the plane, then having to plummet for a minute or two and just knowing what's coming up. If it makes you feel better, you might not die instantly in a car crash. You might get impaled by something and burn to death. Hope that helps!
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Jun 21, 2019 04:38
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We also let the horrible plane crashes that are total losses stick out in our minds. A lot of pretty bad plane crashes have a lot of survivors if the pilots can manage to set it down. Here's a quick article my lazy rear end found. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45030345. Apparently the last NTSB report from the 90s said that 55% of passengers survive "serious accidents."
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Jun 21, 2019 04:38
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CJacobs posted:It seems pretty simple to me? Car accident, you may die. Plane accident, you will die. Car accident, someone may be able to help you survive. Plane accident, the help you can receive is very limited. That's actually massively not true. Even if you're unlucky enough to be in the <1% of plane flights that crash you have like a 99% chance of not dying. The reason they make movies about plane crashes where everything goes horrendously wrong and zero to seven people survive is because they're just that damned rare. Most of the time if a plane crashes you get a few people that might get hospitalized for a few days at worst but the safety standards on planes are loving bonkers. I forget the exact numbers but major airlines generally have less than a few dozen fatalities per million passengers. The odds are extremely on your side when it comes to flying. The reason it scares people is because it's a gigantic news story whenever a plane goes down and kills anybody. Once again the reason it makes the news is because it's rare. It's like a kid getting kidnapped by strangers; everybody is scared shitless of it but the odds are in the one in millions category. It makes the news in the off chance it happens because it's just so freaking rare.
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Jun 21, 2019 05:02
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guestimate posted:Nothing the average person does in their average day is anywhere near as dangerous as driving. We have all just decided to collectively deny and dismiss this because the automobile is so neccessary and convenient in America. This is so true. The company I work for is involved in fairly dangerous work. The kind of thing where if something goes wrong people die. Everyday we have people working in potentially dangerous situations. We compile a monthly list of incidents and near misses. Over 50% of those are related to driving to job sites and back. The majority of these are related to the actions of 3rd party drivers.
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Jun 21, 2019 05:17
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This is just the first thing I found (Wikipedia), but it jibes with other things I’ve read about this topic.quote:The number of deaths per passenger-mile on commercial airlines in the United States between 2000 and 2010 was about 0.2 deaths per 10 billion passenger-miles, while for driving, the rate was 1.5 per 100 million vehicle-miles for 2000, which is 150 deaths per 10 billion miles for comparison with the air travel rate. No, air travel isn’t infallible, but 0.2 deaths per 10 billion passenger-miles is really close. Given the numbers in that quote, air travel is 75,000% safer than automobile travel. Mile-per-mile, 750 people die in auto accidents for every one who dies in an air travel accident.
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Jun 21, 2019 05:19
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The odds are extremely on your side when it comes to flying. The reason it scares people is because it's a gigantic news story whenever a plane goes down and kills anybody. Once again the reason it makes the news is because it's rare. You could say that, but I think another reason people are scared is that humans aren't used to being 35,000 ft above ground. I perceive planes as scarier than cars and I would do that even if I had never read news or statistics.
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Jun 21, 2019 05:44
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's actually massively not true. Even if you're unlucky enough to be in the <1% of plane flights that crash you have like a 99% chance of not dying. The reason they make movies about plane crashes where everything goes horrendously wrong and zero to seven people survive is because they're just that damned rare. Most of the time if a plane crashes you get a few people that might get hospitalized for a few days at worst but the safety standards on planes are loving bonkers. Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:This is just the first thing I found (Wikipedia), but it jibes with other things I’ve read about this topic. I'm glad to have been wrong about this part of it at least, regardless of what the discussion was originally about. Thanks goons.
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Jun 21, 2019 06:27
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The Rajneeshee Bioterror attack of 1984 is the largest act of bioterrorism in the US. Baghwan Shee Rajneesh established his own spiritual practice and eventually relocated to Oregon with the goal of building a city/commune. When faced with the usual bureaucracy involved with such an undertaking, his cult would do whatever it took to manipulate the situation from vote tampering/fraud to assassination attempts. The bioterror attack was with cultivated salmonella spread in restaurant salad bars which resulted in 750 people hospitalized. Rajneesh's second in command/secretary, Sheela is considered the primary instigator though from reading around it's very fuzzy as to how much Rajneesh knew before he did his public denouncing of her. She was sentenced to 20 years but only served 2 with good behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack https://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/guru-poison-bioterrorrists-spread-salmonella-oregon-article-1.1373864 https://allthatsinteresting.com/rajneesh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwx9nqknu-c
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Jun 21, 2019 07:31
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M_Sinistrari posted:The Rajneeshee Bioterror attack of 1984 is the largest act of bioterrorism in the US. Baghwan Shee Rajneesh established his own spiritual practice and eventually relocated to Oregon with the goal of building a city/commune. When faced with the usual bureaucracy involved with such an undertaking, his cult would do whatever it took to manipulate the situation from vote tampering/fraud to assassination attempts. The bioterror attack was with cultivated salmonella spread in restaurant salad bars which resulted in 750 people hospitalized. Rajneesh's second in command/secretary, Sheela is considered the primary instigator though from reading around it's very fuzzy as to how much Rajneesh knew before he did his public denouncing of her. She was sentenced to 20 years but only served 2 with good behavior. It was so mind-blowing when I discovered that Berke Breathed hadn't just made that up for Bloom County
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Jun 21, 2019 11:09
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I hate driving. It's an insane activity in America, especially when you consider how piss easy it is to pass a driver's test here. 3-ton metal machines screaming down a road at speeds never meant to be felt by humans! This is why I'm so eagerly awaiting the mainstream application of self-driving vehicles. A lot of people I know have said they'd never use one because they don't "trust" it...but you're willing to trust the stranger in the SUV that had a few too many margaritas and is fiddling with their phone? The day I never have to use a steering wheel again will be a great day, imo. I also can't wait for the first news article about some auto-car driving around with a dead guy in it for hours.
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Jun 21, 2019 17:37
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Self driving cars pretty categorically worse than human drivers, because their purpose isn't to make things safer. It's to validate dumb VC sci-fi dreams and put truck drivers out of business. The hardware used to make this economically viable means that the car will always pointlessly crash because it misunderstood something about its surroundings.
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Jun 21, 2019 17:59
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Chello De Don posted:I hate driving. It's an insane activity in America, especially when you consider how piss easy it is to pass a driver's test here. 3-ton metal machines screaming down a road at speeds never meant to be felt by humans! This is why I'm so eagerly awaiting the mainstream application of self-driving vehicles. A lot of people I know have said they'd never use one because they don't "trust" it...but you're willing to trust the stranger in the SUV that had a few too many margaritas and is fiddling with their phone? The day I never have to use a steering wheel again will be a great day, imo. true self driving cars are so far away that they're still science fiction at this point. what we will see in any reasonable timeframe (next 20 years or so) are vehicles which are mostly self driving if that, but require constant vigilance when the vehicle decides to kick control back to a human driver. so if anything you are more likely to be hit by someone who was so deep into watching hentai behind the wheel that they are not able to maintain effective control over the vehicle once it drops back to manual mode. OR, your insurance company will mandate a state of constant readiness and enforce this through driver-viewing cameras, such that driving now means that you keep your hands on the wheel and watch the world go by in a trance without being able to divert your attention for more than a few seconds lest you get dinged and your insurance rates go up self driving buses are more likely at this point, and easier to implement with less of a factor for injury or death. the main purpose of self driving cars is to maintain the fiction that we can have all the convenience of personal automobiles with none of the unpleasant side effects like needing to pay attention or expend a lot of resources to maintain the vehicle, which is a bit of a sci-fi dream like cake that doesn't make you fat or alcohol that doesn't give you a hangover Mr. Fall Down Terror has a new favorite as of 18:05 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 18:02
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Car accident: Oh gently caress! Plane crash: Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
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Jun 21, 2019 18:12
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ElGroucho posted:Car accident: Oh gently caress! Yea, like a poster above said, it's really not about statistics it's about the absolute nightmare scenario of being in a plane that's plummeting to Earth and having to ride it all the way down with the full awareness of what's going to happen. Doesn't matter how rare it is, it's a situation that people fear more than almost any other, with the exception of maybe going down with a cruise ship or something.
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Jun 21, 2019 18:23
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Jon Bois compared playing poker to being mugged, except the mugging attempt was five seconds and the poker game was 10 minutes.
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Jun 21, 2019 19:20
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Yeah, self driving cars right now love to veer you off the road cause there's some mud over the dividers, or they're faded, or ram you under a truck and decapitate you at 75 mph then keep driving for a bit.
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Jun 21, 2019 20:04
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