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AceOfFlames posted:I think that's my main problem. Genie really cannot be put back in the bottle, I guess
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Jun 20, 2019 19:19
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Prestigious education especially is always going to have a bias toward the dominant ideology and calls it objective, and it's as much of a shibboleth as any beer-chugging. The global right's aggressive anti-intellectualism is worrysome, but ultimately political will doesn't come from someone at the top's figuring it all out on their own, but from people expressing their problems and getting their demands acknowledged.AceOfFlames posted:Kings usually don't have PhDs. Only one I can think of is Doctor Doom and his doctorate was almost certainly honorary. One of the selling points of aristocracy is getting a social class to dedicate their life to the practice of ruling from the earliest age, and they generally receive whatever education is deemed necessary by their family and peers. I'll let you guess why that offers limited opportunities for radical change.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:21
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You're basically asking for someone who's an expert at doing things, with no sense of whether what they're trying to achieve is a good idea in the first place - a completely amoral administrator. Tell them to reduce homelessness and they'll start an efficient program to build homes for millions of families. Tell them to achieve "social cohesion" and they'll deport anyone whose grandparents weren't born in the country within a month. Your idea basically only works at the End of History, when everyone has agreed on what is good and you just need someone to fiddle with the numbers to achieve that. Assuming the reports they get from their underlings are accurate in the first place. It exemplifies the trend towards disintermediation and de-politicization that has become hegemonic in the political discourse throughout virtually the entire West. Good Governance (tm) has already been invented, so the politician is more of a manager of public affairs. He merely has to adhere to the tenets and achieve the objectives implied by Good Governance.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:22
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YaketySass posted:One of the selling points of aristocracy is getting a social class to dedicate their life to the practice of ruling from the earliest age, and they generally receive whatever education is deemed necessary by their family and peers. I'll let you guess why that offers limited opportunities for radical change. No no no, we're no aristocracy, we're a meritocracy based on how good you are at Latin
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Jun 20, 2019 19:30
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AceOfFlames posted:I think that's my main problem. Genie really cannot be put back in the bottle, I guess Look buddy, here's where you're wrong: DOOM is much much more than a petty king, he's the supreme ruler of Latvéria.second, Doom's word is law, if he says he's a doctor then he's a doctor.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:38
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Gort posted:No no no, we're no aristocracy, we're a meritocracy based on how good you are at Latin We should have a word for a society ruled by the best people, it'd solve all of our problems.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:40
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AceOfFlames posted:I mentioned before, my ideal ruler would be someone who trained his whole life in political science, PhD minimum requirement, and spends his whole day doing statecraft. No visits to "the people" other than meetings with other dignitaries, no photo ops. Heck, ideally I don't have to know their NAME. I don't want someone I "could have a beer with"I want someone who knows what they are doing. A nameless, faceless mass of pure knowledge who gets all their inputs from reports from their underlings. This is also what lobbyists want; ivory tower technocrats who have absolutely no idea what life in their country actually is, can be Potemkined fully away from reality, and therefore take decisions that benefit the ones who actually have access to them to the detriment of the 99.99% of the population that they only know as an abstract statistics.
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Jun 20, 2019 19:50
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So arguably it makes sense to have some politicians with PhDs in political science, some who are labourers, some who are professionals, some who have PhDs in the sciences or the humanities ...
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Jun 20, 2019 20:01
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Cingulate posted:So arguably it makes sense to have some politicians with PhDs in political science, some who are labourers, some who are professionals, some who have PhDs in the sciences or the humanities ... Some kind of representative cross-section of the general population?
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Jun 20, 2019 20:12
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Who gets the PhD in being unemployed or otherwise with relevant life experience in things that aren't considered "work"?
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Jun 20, 2019 20:19
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YaketySass posted:Who gets the PhD in being unemployed or otherwise with relevant life experience in things that aren't considered "work"?
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Jun 20, 2019 20:24
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Cingulate posted:Wasn't Thatcher a stay at home mom? No I think she worked for the government
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Jun 20, 2019 20:38
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Ok she had a PhD in chemistry and worked as a research scientist.
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Jun 20, 2019 20:46
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Orange Devil posted:Some kind of representative cross-section of the general population? Yeah. Ideally I think a Parliament should be made half by election and half by sortition.
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Jun 20, 2019 20:48
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Cingulate posted:Ok she had a PhD in chemistry and worked as a research scientist. IIRC she worked on some sort of ice cream additive. She should have stuck to that.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:12
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AceOfFlames posted:IIRC she worked on some sort of ice cream additive. She would have found a way to make ice cream horrible somehow.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:18
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Instead, she turned the whole country bad.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:20
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thatcher should be the scientist on the new 50 pound note boldly discovering how to turn a country to poo poo in ways that no man had managed before
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Jun 21, 2019 10:40
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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How about MRI scanning all political candidates to weed out the potential sociopaths? (not that it would be very effective)
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Jun 21, 2019 11:33
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how about establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and simply shooting the gits
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Jun 21, 2019 11:35
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V. Illych L. posted:how about establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and simply shooting the gits Heck, it's worth a try!
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Jun 21, 2019 11:36
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latent lunatic posted:How about MRI scanning all political candidates to weed out the potential sociopaths? (not that it would be very effective) I think we should just stick with democracy for now.
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Jun 21, 2019 11:43
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AceOfFlames posted:I never got this argument. Engineers train to be engineers since their work can affect people's lives. Doctors train to be doctors since they are in charge of people's lives. Politicians run countries and so...should dedicate their early years doing something else (and possibly not that well, if they are planning on changing careers) and THEN jump into statescraft? You see the same problem in larger companies when you have upper management who don't really know what the business does and just look at reports.
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Jun 21, 2019 12:03
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Cingulate posted:MRI is very far away from any kind of sufficiently specific and sensitive diagnostic. However, filtering out sociopaths would only remove those who'd do evil or harm for selfish reasons, not those who do them out of, for example, empathy or cold calculations in favour of greater good ideologies. Just bias the classifier to have a 100% hit rate, disregarding false alarms
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Jun 21, 2019 12:14
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Collateral Damage posted:My point is that if you're in a position to make policy that affects for instance how hospitals are run, you should have some idea of how hospitals actually work in the first place. I was perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but it's really tiring to see people who are supposed to run the country make clearly uninformed decisions that affect millions. Politics (and corporate politics too) are about a lot more than just making the optimal decisions out of expertise though. A traffic engineer can tell you the optimal way to build a highway. What he can't tell you is how to prioritize the budget, get local actors on board, put the interest of one group above another, whether to put commerce or climate first, how it fits into a grander vision of where society is moving, etc. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of clowns in politics and corporate upper structures. But there are also tons of well-educated people too who make infuriating decisions for reasons that often have nothing to do with the decision itself. Education is not really the denominator, lay-persons can still seek advice from experts if they want to. When they choose not to, you should ask yourself why. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 12:27
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When I was in high school, I thought there should be some test of political knowledge before you're allowed to vote. Because, why should uninformed people be allowed to chose similarly uninformed people to rule the rest of us terribly? I think growing out of that mindset has been a substantial improvement in character. In Germany, the party most aggressively advertising itself as having many labourers in their ranks is the (trumpist) AfD. However, they were founded by an economics professor. He was replaced by a young female entrepreneur and scientist for not being radical enough. She was then in turn replaced - again for not being radical enough - by another economics professor, a noblewoman and a teacher.
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Jun 21, 2019 12:51
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There's something to the old saying about democracy being the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
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Jun 21, 2019 14:04
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Cingulate posted:When I was in high school, I thought there should be some test of political knowledge before you're allowed to vote. Because, why should uninformed people be allowed to chose similarly uninformed people to rule the rest of us terribly? I think growing out of that mindset has been a substantial improvement in character. In summary, people are poo poo, and we should oppress them all.
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Jun 21, 2019 14:57
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Cingulate posted:In Germany, the party most aggressively advertising itself as having many labourers in their ranks is the (trumpist) AfD. However, they were founded by an economics professor. He was replaced by a young female entrepreneur and scientist for not being radical enough. She was then in turn replaced - again for not being radical enough - by another economics professor, a noblewoman and a teacher. The Danish People's Party has also brought the largest share of non-academics into parliament. Unfortunately it included people who didn't know grade school math and could talk to their dog.
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Jun 21, 2019 15:18
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suck my woke dick posted:In summary, people are poo poo, and we should oppress them all. As long as we start with the economics professors.
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Jun 21, 2019 19:06
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Cingulate posted:a noblewoman Does Germany still officially recognize some form of hereditary nobility?
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Jun 21, 2019 23:07
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Herman Merman posted:Does Germany still officially recognize some form of hereditary nobility? No, there are neither laws or any official privilege coming with it, as far as I'm aware. Obviously, they still often hold considerable private wealth or companies and thus sometimes have influence, also there are a number of well-known nobles in politics, but nothing official and sometimes they are rather openly frowned upon, depending on who you ask.
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Jun 22, 2019 00:19
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Orange Devil posted:As long as we start with the economics professors. I completely support a purge for economics professors who - Are over 55 - Are macroecononomists or - Are not macroeconomic researchers but feel compelled to post / write about macroeconomics - Have little international research exposure Macro is of course a joke rear end field, but in Europe, there's a class of old professors who a) got in cheap by publishing in local garbage journals, are underqualified and block hiring of better, newer people and b) believe they know the world because they can draw demand and supply lines for different things, and that good empirical analyses are new school bogus they don't understand. The other toxic class are those who don't actually do research in the area, because their knowledge basically amounts to an undergrad education (or even less) because econ specializes extremely early (pre-grad).
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Jun 22, 2019 08:01
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caps on caps on caps posted:macroecononomists I've been thinking about this; recently: Think of any MMO that has a Public Marketplace for items. Some are quest items and those are in constant demand, this increases price based on the rarity of said item. Some items arn't quest items, and so, there is minimal demand for it, making it not worth it to sell on the marketplace. This means that the majority of MMOs are demand based economics, if you think of Quest Items as Stable goods, like food. The fact that said "macro economists" peddle Supply based economics, when we have literal control groups to compare to, is insane.
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Jun 22, 2019 08:33
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Economists are soothsayers.
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Jun 22, 2019 08:43
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Just use the question "is austerity a good idea?" as a schibboleth; if they give any answer other than "no" or "never", shoot them immediately.
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Jun 22, 2019 09:06
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Cat Mattress posted:Just use the question "is austerity a good idea?" as a schibboleth; if they give any answer other than "no" or "never", shoot them immediately. Then shoot the rest of them just to be safe.
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Jun 22, 2019 09:27
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SniHjen posted:I've been thinking about this; recently: I thought quest items were usually bind on pickup and you can't actually sell them...Have I missed the gravy train??? D: Could I have been a virtual 1%-er?
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Jun 22, 2019 11:10
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SniHjen posted:I've been thinking about this; recently: I don't know about the analogy but the supply side / demand side dichtonomy is certainly stupid, because all the received wisdom is based on equilibrium mechanics (except newer stuff and input/output models of old) which means that it's by definition both. And all this arguing about which side shifts is really retarded because there is no empirical precedence to really say it's either or and likely its both anyways. And at that point, it's really just politics based on utterances of "eminent scholars" paid by, grasp, interest groups. And where its not, it's remnants of a long dead academic status contest.
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Jun 22, 2019 12:39
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SniHjen posted:Think of any MMO that has a Public Marketplace for items. That's a goonsay right there.
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Jun 23, 2019 15:21
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