Transformers: No Gift Receipt, Thanks, These Toys Are For Me

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Transformers: No Gift Receipt, Thanks, These Toys Are For Me

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Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I think CAD has kind of broken the concept anyway.

# ? Jun 25, 2019 22:50

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 11:06

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

TheDK posted:

Pro tip: Do not engage razorsaur in remold discussion.

Nodosaur isn't wrong, though? Like he's white knighting but the remold discussion is generally people bitching about Hasbro keeping cost down, and it's kinda unfair when re-using components in CAD is hardly using the same mold again. You're not changing the mold, you're using learned knowledge.

It's like saying every c-clip, 5mm peg and ball joint is a remold.

# ? Jun 25, 2019 22:52

TheDK: Jun 5, 2009

Spiderdrake posted:

Nodosaur isn't wrong, though? Like he's white knighting but the remold discussion is generally people bitching about Hasbro keeping cost down, and it's kinda unfair when re-using components in CAD is hardly using the same mold again. You're not changing the mold, you're using learned knowledge.

It's like saying every c-clip, 5mm peg and ball joint is a remold.

OK fine, you can be on the do-not-engage list too

# ? Jun 25, 2019 23:24

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

TheDK posted:

OK fine, you can be on the do-not-engage list too

Gonna have hamster hotbox your shared bed next month mister.

We'll see how your policy of do-not-engage works out then.

# ? Jun 25, 2019 23:35

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Can we all leave each other�s taints unreaped pls?

# ? Jun 25, 2019 23:42

Technowolf: Nov 4, 2009

Rhyno posted:

Oh I use Jazz and forgot about it. Are we getting a fourth?

Supposedly it's Lancer, to complete the Female Autobots team.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 00:59

Silhouette: Nov 16, 2002; SONIC BOOM!!!

DoctorWhat posted:

It's the Combiner version and the mold stinks.

Yeah but it comes with Catknife

# ? Jun 26, 2019 01:27

the guy from Semisonic: Jan 13, 2006; Let's kick some gigabutt!; Bleak Gremlin

Apparently some website called The NTWRK had the Ghostbusters/MP Optimus up for sale briefly and it sold out in about a minute.

So I'm putting this out there: if anyone here is able to snag one, I'll pay the price plus any applicable taxes and shipping fees plus an additional $50 for your troubles if you're able to get one for me.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 01:32

Nodosaur: Dec 23, 2014

Deceptive Thinker posted:

Under this definition what would qualify as a remold?

remolds involve the use of existing molded parts in production combined with ones that have been retooled

Greenlight uses parts of the same molds as Moonracer and Novastar, Chromia's only reuse is in a digital context

of course, given how much toy design has come to involve digital rendering, the line has been blurred even more than it already had

It's not a matter of defending Hasbro either, it's just saying what is and isn't actually the case

# ? Jun 26, 2019 02:25

Deceptive Thinker: Oct 5, 2005; I'll rip out your optics!

Nodosaur posted:

remolds involve the use of existing molded parts in production combined with ones that have been retooled

Greenlight uses parts of the same molds as Moonracer and Novastar, Chromia's only reuse is in a digital context

of course, given how much toy design has come to involve digital rendering, the line has been blurred even more than it already had

It's not a matter of defending Hasbro either, it's just saying what is and isn't actually the case

So if every part has been retooled then it's not a remold?

Edit: yeah I'm just hung up on the ridiculous terminology

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:14

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

the guy from Semisonic posted:

Apparently some website called The NTWRK had the Ghostbusters/MP Optimus up for sale briefly and it sold out in about a minute.

So I'm putting this out there: if anyone here is able to snag one, I'll pay the price plus any applicable taxes and shipping fees plus an additional $50 for your troubles if you're able to get one for me.

TCP had it up for almost a whole week. I wish I'd know it was gonna be this hot.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:19

Nodosaur: Dec 23, 2014

Deceptive Thinker posted:

So if every part has been retooled then it's not a remold?

Edit: yeah I'm just hung up on the ridiculous terminology

more like, it's a remold if it uses the same parts from some of the physical molds that are used to make the toys as another toy. Chromia's upper legs are of identical physical shape and dimension as Moonracer's because they're based on the same digital image, but they use separate molds to make them from Moonracer, Novastar, and Greenlight.

A similar thing happened with Studio Series Bumblebee. He uses many similar-looking parts as Last Knight Bumblebee, but they're all taken from the same digital CAD file as that toy and scaled down to fit his new proportions. Hence, he uses an entirely different mold, while recycling the engineering from the TLK toy.

Then there's stuff like the Combiner Wars Silverbolt mold. He was actually, factually remolded into multiple characters. Then we come to POTP Hun-Gurr, who recycles engineering from the toy to form Abominus's torso mode, but shares no parts with him, Cyclonus, Scattershot, etc. The same digital rigging used to engineer his transformation was likely recycled, but the toy uses no parts from the Silverbolt mold either physically or design wise. They just used his proportions and physical arrangement of parts and built a dragon around it instead of a plane.

Toy design has changed a lot and fandom terminology hasn't caught up with it/become aware of it yet, so it's no one's fault if they aren't aware of this kind of thing. Still, it's useful to know the differences, I think.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:33

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

You guys should definitely tell the Hasbro employee what is or is not a remold.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:36

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Nodosaur posted:

more like, it's a remold if it uses the same parts from some of the physical molds that are used to make the toys as another toy. Chromia's upper legs are of identical physical shape and dimension as Moonracer's because they're based on the same digital image, but they use separate molds to make them from Moonracer, Novastar, and Greenlight.

A similar thing happened with Studio Series Bumblebee. He uses many similar-looking parts as Last Knight Bumblebee, but they're all taken from the same digital CAD file as that toy and scaled down to fit his new proportions. Hence, he uses an entirely different mold, while recycling the engineering from the TLK toy.

Then there's stuff like the Combiner Wars Silverbolt mold. He was actually, factually remolded into multiple characters. Then we come to POTP Hun-Gurr, who recycles engineering from the toy to form Abominus's torso mode, but shares no parts with him, Cyclonus, Scattershot, etc. The same digital rigging used to engineer his transformation was likely recycled, but the toy uses no parts from the Silverbolt mold either physically or design wise. They just used his proportions and physical arrangement of parts and built a dragon around it instead of a plane.

Toy design has changed a lot and fandom terminology hasn't caught up with it/become aware of it yet, so it's no one's fault if they aren't aware of this kind of thing. Still, it's useful to know the differences, I think.

You've never actually made a mould of something have you?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:57

Nodosaur: Dec 23, 2014

I'm just explaining it as I understand it. If anything about that is incorrect, I'd be happy to learn for real, but I'm just sharing what's been shared with me.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 03:58

DisposableHero: Feb 25, 2005; bah weep granna weep ninny bong

I don't really understand why it's a useful designation. I feel like it's just a word people say when they mean "transforms the same".

# ? Jun 26, 2019 04:14

Nodosaur: Dec 23, 2014

a lot of people, especially as it's becoming more common in recent years, use it as justification to say that Hasbro and Takara are investing less into Transformers designs, even though that's not really how it works

# ? Jun 26, 2019 04:20

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

Endless Mike posted:

You guys should definitely tell the Hasbro employee what is or is not a remold.

Look who started it and then try to hide your surprise.

I just got into the office and some motherfucker has stolen a bunch of botbots from my desk :saddowns:

At least they only took the least valuable thing I had on here! Time to rethink my desk decor.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 08:11

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

I�m sorry dude. That�s why I don�t deskbot (other than to bring one in the morning, and then take it home again when I leave). Overnight deskbot-ing just invites trouble.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 08:33

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

The_Doctor posted:

I�m sorry dude. That�s why I don�t deskbot (other than to bring one in the morning, and then take it home again when I leave). Overnight deskbot-ing just invites trouble.

Yeah it's a shitter. At least it's taken more than 4 years for anything to go missing, and like I said luckily it was just the cheap novelty bots.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 08:40

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Maybe they mistook them for actual office supplies in a wacky misunderstanding

they're just poo poo heads arent' they

# ? Jun 26, 2019 08:44

Captain Invictus: Apr 5, 2005; Try reading some manga!; Clever Betty

Plant a GPS tracker inside a botbot in an elaborate scheme to catch the thief red handed

# ? Jun 26, 2019 09:18

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Nodosaur posted:

I'm just explaining it as I understand it. If anything about that is incorrect, I'd be happy to learn for real, but I'm just sharing what's been shared with me.

Hasbro and Takara might have their own internal language for this, but In broad terms:

A redeco is a simple repaint of a figure.

A retool is physically changing the mould used to make the figure. This prevents the original version being made again without retooling the mould again to the original form.

A remould is taking a figure, modifying that, and then using that modified part or parts to make an entirely new mould.

Given how things have moved to CAD so much I suspect remoulding would almost never happen in commercial toy production on this scale anymore.

Then there are "pretools" which are just moulds with redundant parts that are discarded like heads and faces that can be switched out for later releases.

Things like the Chromia/Moonracer etc where multiple toys have the same part are due to most toys not actually being a single mould, so the thigh part is likelyon a separate mould with the hands and upper arms of the Moonracer toy, possibly with the option to gate parts off for Chromia. Whether or not this gating is reversible might actually make those two parts retools of Moonracer, or they may have just ripped the single part from the CAD file and stuck it into a totally new mould for Chromia's parts in that colour.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 11:26

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Arquinsiel posted:

A retool is physically changing the mould used to make the figure. This prevents the original version being made again without retooling the mould again to the original form.

A remould is taking a figure, modifying that, and then using that modified part or parts to make an entirely new mould.

Interesting. So what is CW Sky Lynx in relation to Silverbolt? Remold?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 11:53

Nodosaur: Dec 23, 2014

Arquinsiel posted:

Hasbro and Takara might have their own internal language for this, but In broad terms:

A redeco is a simple repaint of a figure.

A retool is physically changing the mould used to make the figure. This prevents the original version being made again without retooling the mould again to the original form.

A remould is taking a figure, modifying that, and then using that modified part or parts to make an entirely new mould.

Given how things have moved to CAD so much I suspect remoulding would almost never happen in commercial toy production on this scale anymore.

Then there are "pretools" which are just moulds with redundant parts that are discarded like heads and faces that can be switched out for later releases.

Things like the Chromia/Moonracer etc where multiple toys have the same part are due to most toys not actually being a single mould, so the thigh part is likelyon a separate mould with the hands and upper arms of the Moonracer toy, possibly with the option to gate parts off for Chromia. Whether or not this gating is reversible might actually make those two parts retools of Moonracer, or they may have just ripped the single part from the CAD file and stuck it into a totally new mould for Chromia's parts in that colour.

That last part sounds like what I described happening with Chromia, I thought. I�m not trying to lecture anyone who�s a professional about this, I don�t even know who the Hasbro employee is in this case, I�m just legitimately trying to figure out where I went wrong here.

I think people are assuming an arrogance or agenda I don�t actually have, here. I�m just trying to inform people of something - they can�t remove Chromia�s combiner peg if she never had one, right?. If I�m incorrect, I�m incorrect; all I�ve tried to do is share what I�ve heard from others.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 12:18

Deceptive Thinker: Oct 5, 2005; I'll rip out your optics!

Arquinsiel posted:

Things like the Chromia/Moonracer etc where multiple toys have the same part are due to most toys not actually being a single mould, so the thigh part is likelyon a separate mould with the hands and upper arms of the Moonracer toy, possibly with the option to gate parts off for Chromia. Whether or not this gating is reversible might actually make those two parts retools of Moonracer, or they may have just ripped the single part from the CAD file and stuck it into a totally new mould for Chromia's parts in that colour.

This is a decent summary of what actually happens with every "retool"/ "remold"

# ? Jun 26, 2019 12:37

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Dawgstar posted:

Interesting. So what is CW Sky Lynx in relation to Silverbolt? Remold?

Sky Lynx? Do they have anything in common?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 12:42

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Deceptive Thinker posted:

This is a decent summary of what actually happens with every "retool"/ "remold"

Thanks. It's me extrapolating from my own experience moulding metal miniatures and knowing how gunpla kits handle multiple plastic colours. Nice to know it holds reasonably true up to the top level.

Dawgstar posted:

Interesting. So what is CW Sky Lynx in relation to Silverbolt? Remold?

Roughly the same size?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 15:54

Captain Magic: Apr 4, 2005; Yes, we have feathers--but the muscles of men.

I�m really tempted by MMC Saltus lately. Anybody have him? Do we have any inkling as to whether there�ll be an official MP Springer down the line?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 16:49

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

On a related note, Siege Springer looks cartoon-decent, but oddly stiff and blocky. I feel like the Thrilling 30 one has a ton more personality.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 16:55

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Captain Magic posted:

I�m really tempted by MMC Saltus lately. Anybody have him? Do we have any inkling as to whether there�ll be an official MP Springer down the line?

I have one of the next batch preordered, he looks so good. I wouldn't bet on an official MP, they're going to do the toon paintjobs and BEASTS.

The_Doctor posted:

On a related note, Siege Springer looks cartoon-decent, but oddly stiff and blocky. I feel like the Thrilling 30 one has a ton more personality.

He looks great but yeah, the old one has so much character.

Siege Greenlight just showed up. I forgot how bad this mold was!

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:07

Daaku Shinsei: Feb 26, 2003

https://screenrant.com/new-transformers-war-cybertron-figures/

These all look nice, but gimme that Astrotrain now.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:18

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Holy poo poo Apeface!

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:23

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Ugh, I guess I�m going to be owning 3 of that Ironhide mould.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:26

Good Listener: Sep 2, 2006; Ask me about moons
Fact #1 The Moon is really cool

That Apeface and Spinister are instant buys.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:31

MinionOfCthulhu: Oct 28, 2005; I got this title for free due to my proximity to an idiot who wanted to save $5 on an avatar by having someone else spend $9.95 instead.

APEFACE APEFACE APEFACE

It doesn't look like Spasma forms part of his gorilla head though. Wait, I found bigger pictures, it looks like it does, just not the full face and mouth.
BUT STILL APEFACE

Edit: Also holy crap, Astrotrain is a Leader class. And it looks like they aren't trying to fudge his size by giving him lifts to wear (lookin' at you, Shockwave)

MinionOfCthulhu fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jun 26, 2019

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:33

EthanSteele: Nov 18, 2007; I can hear you

Want that Apeface!

Nodosaur posted:

That last part sounds like what I described happening with Chromia, I thought. I�m not trying to lecture anyone who�s a professional about this, I don�t even know who the Hasbro employee is in this case, I�m just legitimately trying to figure out where I went wrong here.

Deceptive Thinker is the Hasbro employee.

It's not that you're wrong in particular, it's that you're going for a definition of a thing while other people are using a word in a more layman/casual way. Your definition is absolutely correct.

99% of the time the correct terminology is retool or shared engineering, but "transforms the same and has largely the same designed pieces, even if they're technically on a new mold and so definitionally cannot be a remold" is a generally accepted meaning.

Captain Magic posted:

I’m really tempted by MMC Saltus lately. Anybody have him? Do we have any inkling as to whether there’ll be an official MP Springer down the line?

I like him! He's pretty big and chunky. Easy to transform. Looks very Springerly.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 17:40

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

I can't believe how much Siege is knocking it out of the park.

Does anyone know what's up with the G2 Sideswipe and Skywarp sets?

# ? Jun 26, 2019 18:06

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

First issue of Transformers vs Cybertron is out, as as per the preview, Gozer turns up. And just like in the movie, someone inadvertently summons the form of the destructor, in this case, it's, well...

# ? Jun 26, 2019 18:10

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 11:06

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

That's a good looking Spacebus. I'm glad I'm done with Transformers.

# ? Jun 26, 2019 18:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Transformers: No Gift Receipt, Thanks, These Toys Are For Me

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