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yeah but who would play starbound repeatedly
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Jun 26, 2019 19:06
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I feel bad for even posting in this thread to begin with. My only experience with Starbound is the 6 hours on my playtime counter. I got my cousin into Terraria, and we have a blast playing together every update. He got Starbound early and gifted me a copy. I played, sand surfed, raided a prison, got frustrated with the ufo boss, and... stopped playing to go back to Terraria. I told myself I’d play after it got a proper release. Welp,
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Jun 26, 2019 19:12
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I played Starbound extensively with my nephew when he was ten years old. So, I guess, I like to for that experience the most. Because to a ten year ago who can get into it, at the time, it checked a lot of boxes. Spaceships, future tech, power sword etc etc.
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Jun 26, 2019 19:33
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Black August posted:I feel bad for even posting in this thread to begin with. My only experience with Starbound is the 6 hours on my playtime counter. I got my cousin into Terraria, and we have a blast playing together every update. He got Starbound early and gifted me a copy. I played, sand surfed, raided a prison, got frustrated with the ufo boss, and... stopped playing to go back to Terraria. I told myself I’d play after it got a proper release. Well you shouldn't, I came back and tried playing it many times, and every time it was still lame.
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Jun 26, 2019 19:59
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Patware posted:yeah but who would play starbound repeatedly  Fair.
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Jun 26, 2019 20:47
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I used to play alot of Terraria, stop for a while after I've made a hell-elevator, computer gets wiped, and repeat. I've made like 5 hell-elevators so far and I'm kind of bored. Mostly because I'm getting stuck at the wall of flesh because I have to carve out pretty much the entirety of hell to prepare for it and you're lucky if you can have 30 seconds of peace in hell to heal/inventory-management etc. and it gets annoying and old real fast.
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Jun 26, 2019 21:25
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Just use the cheat sheet mod by jopojelly, and pop the option to kill all enemies on screen. Terraria is too good of a game to worry about getting hung up on combat hurdles. I also use it when building hyper-specific little houses or set pieces, and it's a miraculous time saver and font of inspiration if you like that aspect of the game.
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Jun 26, 2019 21:43
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The less cheaty option is to get yourself some minion-boosting armor and the best minion summon staff you can find. Then focus on doing stuff while your minions are handling the random mobs.
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Jun 26, 2019 21:59
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SugarAddict posted:I used to play alot of Terraria, stop for a while after I've made a hell-elevator, computer gets wiped, and repeat. I've made like 5 hell-elevators so far and I'm kind of bored. If you dont feel like building a place to fight the wall of flesh just drink a gravitation potion and fight him on the ceiling. Its effective and fun.
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Jun 26, 2019 22:24
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Actually get yourself lava waders, they let you walk on lava and it also provides 7 seconds of lava immunity. Wear them with specter/lightning boots and all you need to do for arena prep is bust some holes in the walls of buildings so that you can keep running. The catch is to make lava waders you need to have a lava charm alongside water walking boots and the obsidian skull, and its a rare thing only found in lava level chests.
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Jun 26, 2019 23:26
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question for you guys: did you actually like the matter manipulator or would you prefer a Minecraft style thing where most tasks had a dedicated tool (i.e. laser miners, drills, chainsaws, etc) on one hand, the MM was convenient but on the other, it didn't really feel like there was anything to discover when you only ever used one tool for everything no matter how productive you were being currently in our design we're doing the dedicated tool approach because I really hated how the MM felt. when i think of sci fi mining i think of big laser miners and drills, not a magic handheld gun that makes pickaxe sounds Rhopunzel fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 00:29
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Could do a modded minecraft kinda thing and have dedicated tools earlygame, then have a morph tool that allows you to store other tools in it for easy switching and storage later on. The main problem I have with several tools isn't so much the switching between them, it's how much space they take in the inventory. Like shift+mousewheel up/down to switch between the stored tools. Also as a side note, I noticed that the squares currently are kinda big, like they feel like they're 2x2 blocks, is that gonna keep being a thing?
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Jun 27, 2019 00:36
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I liked the matter manipulator but it could have done with having a more robust upgrade system for unlocking/finding more tools for it.Nalesh posted:The main problem I have with several tools isn't so much the switching between them, it's how much space they take in the inventory. yeah, this
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Jun 27, 2019 00:37
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Nalesh posted:Could do a modded minecraft kinda thing and have dedicated tools earlygame, then have a morph tool that allows you to store other tools in it for easy switching and storage later on. The main problem I have with several tools isn't so much the switching between them, it's how much space they take in the inventory. Like shift+mousewheel up/down to switch between the stored tools. They're 16x16 pixels, which is twice as big as Starbound's. I made the conscious decision to go with bigger blocks because trying to make looping textures in an 8x8 space was utter torture on Starbound and we wanted the extra flexibility to achieve the look we want (and also because it's important to me that we're a lot more economical with asset use - we're able to make one 16x tile loop nicely rather than needing 5 variants of 8x to do the same). We'll be using tricks to break up the flow so terrain isn't perfectly perpendicular all the time, but for the most part yeah. Rhopunzel fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 00:39
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I thought the matter manipulator + drill was fine. The drill being for big excavation jobs and the mm for basically anything else. 2 tools hardly felt like they took up space especially compared to modded minecraft where you need a whole inventory bag just for the different types of wrenches, spanners and crescent hammers.
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Jun 27, 2019 00:41
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having a mostly universal tool that's good for basic stuff but an assortment of specialized but way better tools feels like a good split to me
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Jun 27, 2019 01:00
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I don't mind dedicated tools for different tasks IF they don't make me give up four or more slots of my toolbar.
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Jun 27, 2019 01:02
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In my opinion if I were to design a game, I would have the mining tools all radically different: 1) Start with terraria-style single-block picks 2) Upgrade to a matter manipulator (pretty quickly). This will be your 'workhorse' pick, and you get to plug in shitloads of addons through progression (mining area, mining speed, material limits if applicable) 3) Findable tools that mine differently, such as Terraria like bombs, and laser miners that blast lots of blocks, drills that break nonstandard amounts/shapes (ie, a harpoon that fires into rock walls 8-10 blocks then explodes to core out a 6-10 block hollow, or mining tools that can instantly excavate an entire 'node', or that randomly create cracks and fissures that get "most" of a wall very quickly but it's very bad at OCD harvesting entire nodes) that are impractical for everyday digging but turbo fun to use. Like spells in Terraria, they all function just a little differently in terms of area effect, effective-itude and such. If you need to dig out a building, use the #2. If you need to get minerals, use some #3 or just #2 very thoroughly. If you need a point-to-point tunnel, use #3s if you don't care about shape and just want it done quick (unless one of the #3s are a Kamehameha laser blast or some such) also Kamehameha is a word firefox's spellchecker knows, how about that
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Jun 27, 2019 01:04
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like it'd be cool if i could trick out a drill by picking between a couple of cool options and use that for serious, dedicated excavation stuff but also be able to just whip out the general multitool to bust out a rock or something if i'm in the middle of plotting something out and just want a smooth surface
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Jun 27, 2019 01:05
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Terraria's system is to start with needing a bunch of specialised tools, then gradually move to needing fewer and fewer as their functionality gets eaten by combination tools. Cutting trees initially requires a dedicated axe, and dealing with background tiles and half tiles requires a hammer, but once the Hamaxe unlocks those two fuse into one. This also applies to how it handles double jumps and the like. Initially rocket boots let you fly and pegasus shoes let you run, but then you can combine them into Spectre Boots that do both. Spectre Boots upgrade to Lightning Boots that are even faster, and Lightning Boots can be boosted to Frostspark boots that do all that but also function as ice skates (so you can basically function as normal in cold biomes). It's a cool way of making the player feel more powerful by just opening up more gear slots that would otherwise be dedicated to maintaining the stack of buffs, while also letting players who like playing in specific ways (ninja tools vs baloons vs frostspark boots vs wings) express themselves.
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Jun 27, 2019 01:43
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Thanks, this helps a lot. We're definitely aiming more for the Terraria style of gameplay so isolating what people liked & didn't like from both Terraria and Starbound is super helpful. Pretty much imagine Terraria crossed with Rimworld and you're on the right track for this game.
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Jun 27, 2019 01:54
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Rhopunzel posted:Thanks, this helps a lot. We're definitely aiming more for the Terraria style of gameplay so isolating what people liked & didn't like from both Terraria and Starbound is super helpful. EDIT: I remembered there's at least one non-pick mining device which does something different, plus explosives SugarAddict posted:I used to play alot of Terraria, stop for a while after I've made a hell-elevator, computer gets wiped, and repeat. I've made like 5 hell-elevators so far and I'm kind of bored.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:18
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Whatever you do, if you have different kinds of dirt / stone / whatever that are functionally the same item, but are different colors, please have them stack and just let the player pick from a palette or something instead of all clogging up different slots in the inventory. Way back in the days of yore Tiy solicited our advice and then foolishly ignored my 2 cents here and look how Starbound turned out. Real important, this point. Kinda for real though, just try to minimize inventory tedium please. Terraria mostly does a decent job of this, better than most voxel sandbox type games, anyway.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:25
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Yeah I feel like the correct answer is to have single items that do jobs like mining, woodcutting, and so on, and then merge them where compatible later on. Also please consider drill rockets that fly a short distance and dig a slightly larger than man sized tunnel, if only because something like that sounds like a helpful way to let later game players dig a path through a thicker wall.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:35
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metasynthetic posted:Whatever you do, if you have different kinds of dirt / stone / whatever that are functionally the same item, but are different colors, please have them stack and just let the player pick from a palette or something instead of all clogging up different slots in the inventory. Way back in the days of yore Tiy solicited our advice and then foolishly ignored my 2 cents here and look how Starbound turned out. Real important, this point. And you always get the same color of dirt when you try to build with it, so if you're trying to terraform a farm somewhere you're almost certain to have it clash with the existing dirt!
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Jun 27, 2019 02:37
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Rhopunzel posted:Thanks, this helps a lot. We're definitely aiming more for the Terraria style of gameplay so isolating what people liked & didn't like from both Terraria and Starbound is super helpful. This sounds neat but having played both of those games my two cents would be I’d like to see an ability to control the pace of the game neither of those games had. It was super frustrating in both games to feel like I couldn’t or shouldn’t bum around fiddling with sandboxy things like walls and decorations because both games wanted you to keep to a certain cycle of engagement and would spam enemies to get you to go on with the game already. Rimworld was especially egregious about this, and it’s one of the reasons I’ve never actually played it much past the beginning. Maybe you really want that and is important; most people don’t seem to care, I guess, but that is what would matter to me most.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:46
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metasynthetic posted:Whatever you do, if you have different kinds of dirt / stone / whatever that are functionally the same item, but are different colors, please have them stack and just let the player pick from a palette or something instead of all clogging up different slots in the inventory. Way back in the days of yore Tiy solicited our advice and then foolishly ignored my 2 cents here and look how Starbound turned out. Real important, this point. No joke a "scoop up generic wood / select wood palette to place if you have at least one of a given type" would be a massive QOL improvement in Terraria, they're getting halfway there with the blockswapping they're implementing for 1.4 Zereth posted:Please look very hard at the Terraria auto-cursor while you're doing this. While picks never upgrades to mining more than one tile at a time, you don't really need it with that. gently caress I forgot about this, yeah, if you hold shift in Terraria it'll auto-select the most powerful tool in your inventory that will work with whatever you're hovering over and temporarily equip it, so you never need to dedicate an inventory slot to basic tools They also implemented core slots for hooks, mounts, and familiars, which all take those items out of the primary inventory. Plus the trick where you can just pick something out of your inventory and use it directly as long as the inventory's still open.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:46
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metasynthetic posted:Whatever you do, if you have different kinds of dirt / stone / whatever that are functionally the same item, but are different colors, please have them stack and just let the player pick from a palette or something instead of all clogging up different slots in the inventory. Way back in the days of yore Tiy solicited our advice and then foolishly ignored my 2 cents here and look how Starbound turned out. Real important, this point. Alternatively, make a few kinds, but let it render down into ore. Emphasis on a few kinds, like one color for each ore or something. Red dirt can be iron, blue aluminum, etc. Make it a decent amount per ore, but if you're having bad luck finding veins, you can just turn it all into metal. I've always wanted dirt to be SOMEWHAT useful, instead of just a thing I have to delete three stacks of out of my inventory because I accidentally picked it all up.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:47
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Zereth posted:I believe the current state is that all the variously colored "Dirt" items now stack together. You should look into the devnull/danknull mechanic from modded minecraft, it's actually a really good way to deal with having a bunch of generic blocks that clog up your inventory. https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/dank-null In a nutshell, it's an item that can hold X stacks of generic blocks, after which it voids any more you get, and it automatically sucks them into itself when you mine them, and you can also place them directly from the item.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:54
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metasynthetic posted:Whatever you do, if you have different kinds of dirt / stone / whatever that are functionally the same item, but are different colors, please have them stack and just let the player pick from a palette or something instead of all clogging up different slots in the inventory. Way back in the days of yore Tiy solicited our advice and then foolishly ignored my 2 cents here and look how Starbound turned out. Real important, this point. They do. I feel comfortable divulging some details now, so there's only one dirt (not counting other dirt-like tiles like clay and such, that serve their own purpose), and three main rock textures (igneous, sedimentary and metamorphic) that are each color shifted to resemble individual types of rock. All of the rocks will generally be used for the same thing, but each subtype will have their own minor statistical differences (Granite is strong, Marble is valuable, etc) for those who want to tailor their constructions, otherwise they'll just be stacked. Right now there's 3 rocks per type, I don't plan to add more because I feel like 9's a nice number to have and I'm not concerned about having zillions of tiles, but it's easy to add more if we wanted.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:01
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BlondRobin posted:This sounds neat but having played both of those games my two cents would be I’d like to see an ability to control the pace of the game neither of those games had. It was super frustrating in both games to feel like I couldn’t or shouldn’t bum around fiddling with sandboxy things like walls and decorations because both games wanted you to keep to a certain cycle of engagement and would spam enemies to get you to go on with the game already. Rimworld was especially egregious about this, and it’s one of the reasons I’ve never actually played it much past the beginning. Maybe you really want that and is important; most people don’t seem to care, I guess, but that is what would matter to me most. FWIW, your problem with Rimworld is largely a function of the storyteller you likely chose - probably Cassandra Classic since she's the default. Cassandra is specifically meant to throw increasingly larger poo poo at you to force you to get on with it and chase after the game's original "win condition" of building a ship and leaving the planet. Almost everyone who plays Rimworld as a sandbox plays with Randy Random, who is actually random and is just as likely to shower you in goodies as he is to gently caress you over. Randy on one of the lower difficulties is very much a Space Town Builder Roguelike rather than a harrowing survival simulator.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:12
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Kanos posted:the storyteller you likely chose Well gently caress now I gotta buy Rimworld, just from the description of that mechanic
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Jun 27, 2019 03:15
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one of the main things is i want to feel cool as gently caress even when i'm digging around or lopping down trees and poo poo like the explosive harpoon mentioned by someone earlier is the kind of thing i'd love to be able to have as a gathering tool cracking a fissure and exploding a bunch of ore out would be so much more engaging than just 'you break blocks faster'. i mean upgrades along those lines are always welcome as long as they're not something you absolutely need to make gathering not a godawful chore, but, having neat options for that kinda stuff is something i think a lot of games miss out on. having it so someone can physically engage with what they're doing instead of just holding the mouse button is fun and makes it more entertaining if there's options to do way better in a cooler way as long as you're willing to do like the bare minimum to participate in it. it's a weird example but warframe is a big game about flipping around like a god of death in space while murking hallways full of dudes but in their open world areas they added spearfishing and it's actually kind of fun because the actual act of aiming for fish so you can impale them is relaxing. and somehow a game that's ostensibly about finding more outlandish ways to separate limbs managed to make fishing fun.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:16
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Johnny Joestar posted:one of the main things is i want to feel cool as gently caress even when i'm digging around or lopping down trees and poo poo like the explosive harpoon mentioned by someone earlier is the kind of thing i'd love to be able to have as a gathering tool Don't worry, we're planning lots of fun ways to mine. Sandmining will be in, as will be stuff like mining with explosives, boring machines and gas pockets. I always felt mining in Starbound was lackluster (if not intended to be a chore) and there were really a lot of missed opportunities to make it feel cool. I mentioned this before but I absolutely hated that its options were "now you upgrade this gun and it makes a pickaxe sound even faster!" - what's exciting about that?
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Jun 27, 2019 03:23
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Rhopunzel posted:question for you guys: On the other hand, I actually really liked the Matter Manipulator, it was the single most hi-tech piece of gear you ever obtain in Starbound other than your ship...which is fitting since it's billed as a sort of macguffin artifact of the game's "plot", the design is built around you having one, and the idea of a miracle space-age construction/deconstruction tool worked. Sure, it's kinda boring and lazy, and the actual implementation awkward, but this is one thing the game actually justified the existence of. The only reason it sucked and felt bad to use was mostly because it was so slow to do basically anything with until you've spent something close to 50 modules to make it marginally better than a pickaxe you can buy as soon as you get to the outpost. And the drill-tools were all awful. I'd grant specialty tools being more effective, but for that to remain true until 3/4ths of the way through your magic toolgun's own progression tree was rear end...and even then, the tree is so unbalanced that the area-of-effect upgrades were the most fun and powerful ones but routinely prohibitively expensive. The idea was sound, but was executed poorly and likely left a sour taste. In short, I like the magical miracle tool. But if that tool doesn't fit your game, it doesn't fit your game, and you shouldn't use it. The only support I could justify for it is as a swiss army knife sort of tool; it can do a whole lot of things so players could always do a certain task, but the specialized tool for said task would be substantially more effective...ideally not just because it's lolslow. For whatever you go with, a toggleable "smart" cursor like Terraria will go a long way for construction purposes, but for digging I liked the approach of the matter manipulator -- upgrade power for digging faster, range for digging farther away, size for having an area of effect. Perhaps you could build on that though and instead of having a strictly linear upgrade like Minecraft or Terraria, you also have side-grade tools that offer better reach, an area of effect, reduced power consumption/higher efficiency, and also of course, speed, than a standard, balanced tool.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:42
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Rhopunzel posted:They're 16x16 pixels, which is twice as big as Starbound's. I made the conscious decision to go with bigger blocks because trying to make looping textures in an 8x8 space was utter torture on Starbound and we wanted the extra flexibility to achieve the look we want (and also because it's important to me that we're a lot more economical with asset use - we're able to make one 16x tile loop nicely rather than needing 5 variants of 8x to do the same). We'll be using tricks to break up the flow so terrain isn't perfectly perpendicular all the time, but for the most part yeah. I remember Starbound being wishy washy between variable gravity, and an end result where it would only impact "How many tiles tall do the floors of my space house need to be to jump between them"? Because they just went  when it came to dangerous locations and standardized gravity inside them because gently caress you for thinking you could take advantage of a low gravity world to make platforming easier.Gravity changes (if any) should be cool or remind you of a particular zone, rather than "Just sort of there until it isn't" Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 03:43
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BlondRobin posted:This sounds neat but having played both of those games my two cents would be I’d like to see an ability to control the pace of the game neither of those games had. It was super frustrating in both games to feel like I couldn’t or shouldn’t bum around fiddling with sandboxy things like walls and decorations because both games wanted you to keep to a certain cycle of engagement and would spam enemies to get you to go on with the game already. Rimworld was especially egregious about this, and it’s one of the reasons I’ve never actually played it much past the beginning. Maybe you really want that and is important; most people don’t seem to care, I guess, but that is what would matter to me most. Somfin posted:gently caress I forgot about this, yeah, if you hold shift in Terraria it'll auto-select the most powerful tool in your inventory that will work with whatever you're hovering over and temporarily equip it, so you never need to dedicate an inventory slot to basic tools Nalesh posted:You should look into the devnull/danknull mechanic from modded minecraft, it's actually a really good way to deal with having a bunch of generic blocks that clog up your inventory. Something in the general vicinity of that to increase your ability to store stuff you're going to deal with a lot would be nice to have in whatever this upcoming game is called, although I've mostly got it because with the mods I'm running I'll end up with like, fifteen different types of ore after like five minutes and my inventory will rapidly fill up with random poo poo very quickly since there's a lot more types of Stuff than in unmodded Terraria 
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Jun 27, 2019 03:44
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A Pleasant Hug posted:In short, I like the magical miracle tool. But if that tool doesn't fit your game, it doesn't fit your game, and you shouldn't use it. The only support I could justify for it is as a swiss army knife sort of tool; it can do a whole lot of things so players could always do a certain task, but the specialized tool for said task would be substantially more effective...ideally not just because it's lolslow. There's going to be classes of mining tools. Some will be better/faster at mining out single blocks, some will be mining battleaxes designed to take out wide areas at a time. A smart cursor is planned. Magical miracle tools don't really fit into the game's universe - tbh there isn't really any magical miracle sci fi anything in the game's universe. We're going for what I term "loose hard sci fi", so there's no sci fi magic, but things have to at least sound feasible. So there's no miracle tools, no personal teleportation (that's safe, at least), no dumb eyeball biomes, no utopian space police. Section Z posted:This is a really dumb question that sorta kinda relates to spacing for building. But is gravity gonna be consistent across location types? I'll be honest, we are planning for variable gravity but we're nowhere near implementing it and won't be until we start actually working on traveling between planets, which is far, far down the line. We wanted true variable gravity in Starbound, but as always, someone had to Game Design it up and wanted gravity levels to always be predictable (i.e. low gravity means you always jump X amount of blocks) so it got watered down until it became meaningless.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:50
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Oh yea something I've always wanted in a sandbox game: As soon as you walk into your home (perhaps in a specific piece of furniture/equipment) all the ore/blocks/garbage gets vacuumed out of your inventory and sorted into chests and/or smelting furnaces. This can kinda be done with modded minecraft (and in fact making large sorting facilities kinda owned), and Factorio's 'garbage slots' works great with logistics bots, but this basically needs to be in every game ever
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Jun 27, 2019 03:55
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Somfin posted:Well gently caress now I gotta buy Rimworld, just from the description of that mechanic It's tangential to the thread but Rimworld is honestly one of my favorite games ever made and anyone who is even vaguely interested in town management/building or fun story generator games should give it at least a look.
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Jun 27, 2019 03:55
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