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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Germany has had mandatory worker representation on boards since the seventies and that hasn't stopped them from being hypercapitalist austerity mongers, so it's no silver bullet.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:01
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This is awesome, although as others have pointed out, he does need to more frequently and clearly tie his brand of justice into things like reproductive rights, racial justice, etc. After all, he is better on those issues than any of his opponents. It's time he trumpets that more.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:03
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joepinetree posted:This is the thing that drives me up a wall. Virtually all of Bernie's signature proposals have been introduced as bills in the senate. Bernie is likely to be the presidential candidate with the most detailed proposals in history, because they are nearly all actually written as bills in the senate. And yet the media treats Warren as the smart wonk because she throws out a wealth tax bill with numbers that are absolutely meaningless. Because Warren is doing the media's job for them and because we've completely commoditized media labor and media they're stuck at the same capitalism grindstone as the rest of us. So when Warren posts a medium post that means to many reporters "congrats your boss wont yell at you today if you just copy and paste an article in 5 minutes" versus Bernie's senate bills that would demand research and reading and work. Since the boss doesn't ever give a poo poo about quality only clicks, why pick the hard old news versus the easy new news? Also that whole "simple good plans are boring" but "complex worse plans are smart!" That the media loves like the hyperloop.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:03
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joepinetree posted:Again, Warren's wealth tax proposal is absolutely silent on enforcement, especially since the US allows for things like anonymous trusts, and since the bulk of wealth can be easily rerouted through foundations, offshore trusts, and offshore accounts. Bernie's 77% estate tax plus 0.5% tax on transfers of financial instruments is not only much more aggressive in its redistributive aspects, not only much more enforceable, but also much more detailed, since they are bills that Bernie has introduced. A very fair point! I really do like having concrete policies to look toward - it's one thing to suggest a course of action, it's another to detail how specifically it should be carried out.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:05
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https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1144828691874295808?s=21
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Jun 29, 2019 20:08
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you can't seriously say orb power isn't real when it's already caused a 10+ page meltdown
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Jun 29, 2019 20:11
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Williamson can be snarky https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1144978350517211136?s=21 Her climate plan sounds good to me
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Jun 29, 2019 20:15
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IUG posted:I don't suppose that there's any other candidate who wants to break up the big tech companies, because that's my major reason for supporting her. I like Warren, but I’m not sure her plan to break up Amazon doesn’t immediately make Walmart extremely, ridiculously powerful. As far as I can tell, she doesn’t put any counterweight to them filling the vacuum; they’re just rewarded for not being a “tech company”. It’s weird because I’m an “end of work” type who was to redistribute the poo poo out of money, but I can kind of see where the whole “they’re going too far left” poo poo comes from. I mean I do dislike certain tech companies, but I don’t want the government to force Apple into separate hardware/software companies. The bullshit on Android regarding one company making the OS and another company making a phone with another company’s components might be good for marketplaces, but it means my three month old Android doesn’t get an OS update because Qualcomm won’t give Samsung an updated driver. The more companies are involved, the more profit motives there are and the more likely one of the hands in your pocket says, “why develop the device you already bought when planned obsolescence nets us another sale?” Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 20:17
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Majorian posted:This is awesome, although as others have pointed out, he does need to more frequently and clearly tie his brand of justice into things like reproductive rights, racial justice, etc. After all, he is better on those issues than any of his opponents. It's time he trumpets that more. I would really love candidates to start making it a point that Trump and senate republicans are on record talking about cutting social security. I never hear about it from anyone and my dad calls me every loving day to tell me how worthless Democrats are for not hitting them on that messaging. He's not wrong.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:20
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Trabisnikof posted:Because Warren is doing the media's job for them and because we've completely commoditized media labor and media they're stuck at the same capitalism grindstone as the rest of us. So when Warren posts a medium post that means to many reporters "congrats your boss wont yell at you today if you just copy and paste an article in 5 minutes" versus Bernie's senate bills that would demand research and reading and work. I'd say it's simpler than. The person the NY Times has covering the Bernie campaign is the daughter in law of the managing director of Bain Capital. Kasie Hunt is the daughter of the Bruce hunt, who is the head of real estate and construction for Penn Medicine. And on and on. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone that most of the political reporters in Washington are well connected people from wealthy backgrounds. Stuff like this: https://fair.org/home/sidney-embers-secret-sources/ isn't just a consequence of lazy reporting.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:24
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theblackw0lf posted:Williamson can be snarky https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/healthcare "I robustly support high-quality universal health coverage for every American. I will do this by making medicare an 0ption on the Obamacare exchanges. Over time, more people will migrate to medicare. I also support federal subsidies to ensure medical coverage for every American, even those in states which have refused medicaid expansion. Those who wish to keep their private insurance may do so."
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Jun 29, 2019 20:27
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I'm really happy to see Warren on the up. She has really impressed me. Her and Bernie would be a hell of a team.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:32
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papa horny michael posted:https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/healthcare Yikes
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Jun 29, 2019 20:32
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Majorian posted:Do you have an example of people "shouting them down"? As opposed to "reasonably disagreeing and laying out compelling reasons for doing so"? Just as a casual observer and infrequent poster, I’ve gotta ask, do you read the posts in this thread, or just skim for tweets and article links? ‘Cause, it’s all over the place. Some dipshit even suggested gulags for people who said they’d be fine with Warren if Sanders wasn’t the nominee.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:33
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papa horny michael posted:https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/healthcare Lack of support for BDS or publicly flaying insurance executives. Color me disappointed in orb mother.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:34
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generic one posted:Just as a casual observer and infrequent poster, I’ve gotta ask, do you read the posts in this thread, or just skim for tweets and article links? ‘Cause, it’s all over the place. Some dipshit even suggested gulags for people who said they’d be fine with Warren if Sanders wasn’t the nominee. Be specific. If it's all over the place, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with an example. People arguing why Bernie is better than Warren or whatever is in no ways the same thing as "shouting people down." papa horny michael posted:https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/healthcare Unfortunate. This plus the anti-vaxxer poo poo plus opposing BDS makes her pretty unacceptable.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:35
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So I had a post all typed out, but as usual joepinetree basically says the same stuff, except better and in 1/5 the words:joepinetree posted:Again, Warren's wealth tax proposal is absolutely silent on enforcement, especially since the US allows for things like anonymous trusts, and since the bulk of wealth can be easily rerouted through foundations, offshore trusts, and offshore accounts. Bernie's 77% estate tax plus 0.5% tax on transfers of financial instruments is not only much more aggressive in its redistributive aspects, not only much more enforceable, but also much more detailed, since they are bills that Bernie has introduced. The frustrating thing is that there's not much we can do to push back against the gut feeling that is instilled in people from the media (plus them just associating Warren's demeanor with "a smart person"). At best, they might read your post and be like "yeah, that makes sense..." but Warren would still be the one that pops into their head when they think "smart policy-crafter." One other aspect that is frustrating to me is that the "weak on race" talking points were (and still are) frequently used against Sanders, while Warren is doing significantly worse with minority groups. I actually don't think this really reflects particularly poorly on her, but it really highlights how cynical those attacks were against Bernie (and unlike Bernie, Warren actually has an honest-to-god legitimate and significant race-based scandal - the DNA test stuff was an actual bad thing she did). generic one posted:Just as a casual observer and infrequent poster, I’ve gotta ask, do you read the posts in this thread, or just skim for tweets and article links? ‘Cause, it’s all over the place. Some dipshit even suggested gulags for people who said they’d be fine with Warren if Sanders wasn’t the nominee. There are literally two (or maybe three?) posters who post like that. Either way it's not common at all, and it's definitely not the real reason people are "driven off" (the real reason is that they're simply not comfortable discussing things when a majority of other posters disagree with them, and it doesn't help that they don't have any responses to their arguments) Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 20:37
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generic one posted:Just as a casual observer and infrequent poster, I’ve gotta ask, do you read the posts in this thread, or just skim for tweets and article links? ‘Cause, it’s all over the place. Some dipshit even suggested gulags for people who said they’d be fine with Warren if Sanders wasn’t the nominee. I don't think the gulag post should really be taken seriously.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:48
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Ytlaya posted:There are literally two (or maybe three?) posters who post like that. Either way it's not common at all, and it's definitely not the real reason people are "driven off" (the real reason is that they're simply not comfortable discussing things when a majority of other posters disagree with them, and it doesn't help that they don't have any responses to their arguments) I'm gonna chime in real quick and say that no, it is very much those 3-4 extremely obnoxious posters that make this thread basically unbearable and drove most of us away. Like, you're right that folks like you and Marjoran and even VS, while we disagree, are actually engaging and interesting to talk to and I feel like I often learn something or have a worthwhile conversation. But the "Warren is a fascist and if you back her you're worse than Trump" moron brigade is *really* loving annoying and they post constantly and make this thread unbearable. A poster who just said over and over again "Bernie is a loving loser communist and if you back him you hate black people" would get banned, and justifiably so. Debate and discussion is one thing, hell being funny is one thing, but there's absolutely a cadre of angry annoying Bernie-or-Busters who genuinely contribute nothing and yet are allowed to just run wild itt. It sucks and is annoying and it's absolutely why I left. Like I would absolutely enjoy a thread where I could talk to you and other folks and genuinely discuss something like this, but this thread ain't it. Z. Autobahn fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 20:51
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Extremely same
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Jun 29, 2019 20:53
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Just put the people on ignore that you always hate to read? If there's only a handful of them it shouldn't be so hard.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:54
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Z. Autobahn posted:I'm gonna chime in real quick and say that no, it is very much those 3-4 extremely obnoxious posters that make this thread basically unbearable and drove most of us away. Like, you're right that folks like you and Marjoran and even VS, while we disagree, are actually engaging and interesting to talk to and I feel like I often learn something or have a worthwhile conversation. But the "Warren is a fascist and if you back her you're worse than Trump" moron brigade is *really* loving annoying and they post constantly and make this thread unbearable. You know what, that's fair. I'm very much of the "Sanders and Warren fans should express their disagreements, but shouldn't attack each other and shouldn't say stupid poo poo about each others' candidates" mentality. I'd like it if annoying hyperbole-posting stopped here.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:56
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How are u posted:I'm really happy to see Warren on the up. She has really impressed me. Her and Bernie would be a hell of a team. That you still have that av is some real grotesque irony.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:56
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the most disheartening thing about the primary is even if sanders wins we're pretty hosed. it's not like he's going to be able to transform our energy system in time to stave off catastrophic climate change. gently caress did they even ask anything about climate in the debates?
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Jun 29, 2019 20:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:the most disheartening thing about the primary is even if sanders wins we're pretty hosed. it's not like he's going to be able to transform our energy system in time to stave off catastrophic climate change. gently caress did they even ask anything about climate in the debates? I don't think it does anybody any good to say that we're hosed no matter what. We may be, but we have a chance, at least, if we get Bernie. We can't give up hope if we're going to survive as a species.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:00
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Groovelord Neato posted:the most disheartening thing about the primary is even if sanders wins we're pretty hosed. it's not like he's going to be able to transform our energy system in time to stave off catastrophic climate change. gently caress did they even ask anything about climate in the debates? It might be too late to stave off the worst of it, but we still have to try to do something. If nothing else, we owe it to future generations to at least be able to say that much.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:01
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Office Pig posted:That you still have that av is some real grotesque irony. Why's that?
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Jun 29, 2019 21:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:the most disheartening thing about the primary is even if sanders wins we're pretty hosed. it's not like he's going to be able to transform our energy system in time to stave off catastrophic climate change. gently caress did they even ask anything about climate in the debates? Even if Bernie is unable to gather congressional support to move an inch on climate change, medicare for all, or income inequality, the president has unilateral power on foreign policy to immediately enact orders that can significantly improve the lives of millions of people around the world. A change of policy on Yemen by itself does that. Which is why foreign policy should be one of the top issues for everyone who cares about human rights that extend beyond American borders.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:04
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How are u posted:Why's that? Warren's pretty not-great on Israel/Palestine.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:07
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Trabisnikof posted:Just put the people on ignore that you always hate to read? If there's only a handful of them it shouldn't be so hard. I hate every poster here including myself
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Jun 29, 2019 21:08
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Majorian posted:Warren's pretty not-great on Israel/Palestine. God just driving people out of the thread aren't we. 
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Jun 29, 2019 21:11
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Tibalt posted:I'm still voting for Warren and the pages of spilled ink in this thread hasn't really changed that, but people can rally for their candidate all they want. More people support Bernie in this thread, so most of the posts will be about Bernie. OK. While you're at it, would you also care to explain why Israel has an absolute right to blow Palestinian women and children to smithereens whenever they feel like it?
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Jun 29, 2019 21:11
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Majorian posted:Warren's pretty not-great on Israel/Palestine. Climate change is pretty much going to solve that problem.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:12
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other than "he's gonna die in office" i can't imagine why you'd vote warren over sanders.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Williamson owns if she does nothing more than highlight how many candidates have conservative views on vaccine exemptions. It doesn’t loving remove Inslee, he removed additional exemptions in Washington State and has been pro-vaccine the entire time. Pay some loving attention. Washington State isn’t some no man’s land.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:15
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) Williamson over vaccines, that also removes Inslee, O'Rourke, Biden, Harris, Klobuchar, Castro, Hickenlooper, Gillibrand and Gabbard, all who do not support removing the religious and personal belief exemption.
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Cerebral Bore posted:OK. While you're at it, would you also care to explain why Israel has an absolute right to blow Palestinian women and children to smithereens whenever they feel like it? Warren and Bernie's policies on Israel are mostly on the same side, and I think she'll be a more effective president.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:18
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Solkanar512 posted:It doesn’t loving remove Inslee, he removed additional exemptions in Washington State and has been pro-vaccine the entire time. The bill still allows religious exemptions: quote:The legislature in his home state recently passed a bill to end personal belief exemptions to vaccines, which he is expected to sign into law. Washington continues to allow religious and medical exemptions. So if you're trying to defend religious exemptions as good vaccine policy, that's different. But most of the posters who've expressed interest in exemption policy have so far been pretty hardline on "no exemptions." edit: sorry I mean "no non-medical exemptions" obviously Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 21:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:other than "he's gonna die in office" i can't imagine why you'd vote warren over sanders. If you live in a state where Warren and Biden have comparable support at the top of the polls leading up to primary/caucus day, and Bernie is way behind, then you should vote Warren to help keep the win away from Biden. Otherwise, yeah, vote Bernie.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:24
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Tibalt posted:Warren and Bernie's policies on Israel are mostly on the same side, and I think she'll be a more effective president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZzjMuXNBrw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAtq62ugaUo
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Jun 29, 2019 21:25
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twodot posted:This is extremely false. Compare and contrast:
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Jun 29, 2019 21:31
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