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The part 8 protag stand is also super simple, tbh. E: is the next episode the hour long special one? Or is that the one after next week's? Grapplejack fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 19:40
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Next week is a regular episode, then nothing for two weeks, and then an hour on the 28th
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Jun 29, 2019 19:49
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Anonymous Robot posted:Manga readers, is Stone Ocean as ludicrous, dream logic-y and deus-ex-machina filled as Golden Wind? I’m really not feeling this part and may check out on the series if this is the way of things from 5 on.
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Jun 29, 2019 19:55
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Oof. Green Day is a loving fight. Gonna be a rough one to go through, and I guess it's the only 4-part fight here, jesus. e: not sure if i'll be able to stomach the whole fight before Fyter Fest starts MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 20:46
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Requiem being hard to understand bullshit is good, it drives home just how weird things get with requiem stands. The anime does have a problem compared to the manga that is exacerbated in scenes like this, though, which is that with a manga you have all the time you need to internalise the text you are reading, while anime means you are bound to tv time and the pacing it demands.
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Jun 29, 2019 22:42
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gold experience is definitely my least-favorite main protagonist stand, to be honest. it has a cool design but everything beyond that is just a mess. it being on the bottom is more just a consequence of all the protag stands being relatively cool but others edging it out for various reasons, though. if anyone else isn't so hot on gold experience either then i'll let you know that it's mainly just a minor dip compared to the rest.
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Jun 29, 2019 22:51
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part 5 and 6 are like david cage games where they start strong and then become exponentially stupider and fall apart the closer they get to the end starting at the halfway point. part 7 though is a top five manga ever
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Jun 29, 2019 23:05
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Part 5 falls apart the most clearly and completely. Giorno and Diavolo having no charisma on their own is just the start of it.
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Jun 29, 2019 23:08
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somepartsareme posted:part 5 and 6 are like david cage games where they start strong and then become exponentially stupider and fall apart the closer they get to the end starting at the halfway point. part 7 though is a top five manga ever I wouldn't say this describes either of those parts or David Cage games
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Jun 29, 2019 23:08
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maybe starting strong is too generous to david cage games
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Jun 29, 2019 23:16
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somepartsareme posted:part 5 and 6 are like david cage games where they start strong and then become exponentially stupider and fall apart the closer they get to the end starting at the halfway point. part 7 though is a top five manga ever if i was araki i would loving kill you
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Jun 29, 2019 23:16
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maybe he shouldnt have wrote it like that then!!
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Jun 29, 2019 23:20
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I disagree I think Diavolo has shown quite a bit of Charisma over the part.
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Jun 29, 2019 23:30
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Anonymous Robot posted:Manga readers, is Stone Ocean as ludicrous, dream logic-y and deus-ex-machina filled as Golden Wind? I’m really not feeling this part and may check out on the series if this is the way of things from 5 on. Kind of? In parts? That said, Stone Ocean has a much stronger through line and more thematic consistency, so it can mostly carry it. The protagonists Stands are also very straightforward, and that helps tremendously.
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Jun 30, 2019 00:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:I disagree I think Diavolo has shown quite a bit of Charisma over the part. The problem is his alter-ego who he uses specifically to be as uncharismatic as possible is somehow way more charismatic than him
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Jun 30, 2019 00:40
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Diavolo is a fine villain its just that what would be any other villain's big arc would be happening right now and instead he's been sidelined by the Chariot Requiem stuff. TBH I blame Chariot Requiem and the mess of Deus Ex Machinas surrounding it for the dip in quality right now than anything to do with Diavolo as a character or a villain.
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Jun 30, 2019 01:26
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diavolo really doesn't get handled well in general. all the funny/interesting stuff around him is kind of in spite of his role in the story and not because of it. i don't really dislike diavolo by any means because his whole 'deal' is kinda cool but i think if given another storyline he could maybe shine better.
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Jun 30, 2019 01:28
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The problem with Diavolo is that Doppio is about 100x as fun and interesting
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Jun 30, 2019 01:39
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for all intents and purposes i generally just lump doppio in with diavolo since even if they're separate they're still presented as a package deal. keeping that dynamic would be fun if it was given time to breathe. i also think his motivations could stand to be fiddled with a bit since 'never being recognized by anything or anyone' is a bit...difficult to work with, narratively.
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Jun 30, 2019 01:41
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Lol i completely forgot about the pumching the sun part and also the body mutations
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Jun 30, 2019 01:43
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Diavolo is in the background for most of the part, then, immediately after being revealed, Bruno takes over his body and Chariot Requiem becomes the driving force of the plot. And then he spends most of this fight hiding and Doppio is immediately killed off. It just really takes away a lot of what should be interesting about him almost immediately and does nothing to fill the void.
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Jun 30, 2019 01:44
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Doppio and Diavolo should've had a conversation/confrontation while they were in separate bodies.
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Jun 30, 2019 02:34
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Seeing as Diavolo had the whole King Crimson, was Doppio even a Stand User when he died?
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Jun 30, 2019 02:37
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I don't think so.
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Jun 30, 2019 02:39
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they're 'separate' souls jammed into one body so they're simultaneously the same person but also distinctly not so while diavolo could impart part of king crimson's power to doppio's consciousness the stand was and is tied to diavolo's presence in particular it helps if you just imagine diavolo as a soul that's really adept at hiding in plain sight
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Jun 30, 2019 02:43
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King Crimson is so tied to Diavolo that you could make the argument that the two are essentially the same being, especially considering we see King Crimson reacting to poo poo more than we see Diavolo period.
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Jun 30, 2019 02:59
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diavolo just really doesn't like being visible, there's a reason why king crimson acts as his proxy half the time and not just as a power he whips out occasionally. it's an interesting dynamic compared to the other villains we've seen so far in the anime but it's not fully realized.
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Jun 30, 2019 03:02
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Anonymous Robot posted:Manga readers, is Stone Ocean as ludicrous, dream logic-y and deus-ex-machina filled as Golden Wind? I’m really not feeling this part and may check out on the series if this is the way of things from 5 on. How did you hang on this long if you don't like how extremely ludicrous jojo is Stone ocean is loving insane in parts but it's also extremely cool and jolyne is my girl friend.
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Jun 30, 2019 03:15
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AlphaKeny1 posted:How did you hang on this long if you don't like how extremely ludicrous jojo is Parts 1-4 are fantastical but usually internally consistent and make sense. This allows character conflicts to have clearly defined rules and expectations. (The exception to this is like, Platinum Finger, which sucked rear end but was at least kinda funny.) The closest part 5 comes to having a good, classic Jojo fight is with Ghiaccio, but even then, we get all this weird conceit-stretching blood magic nonsense at the end. (Gold Experience vs the shadow vampire guy was pretty clever too.)
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Jun 30, 2019 03:53
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The best fight of part 5 was clearly the tag team match of Mista + Bruno vs Pesci + Prosciutto.
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Jun 30, 2019 03:58
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I know part 6 has convoluted plot problems but I consider Jolyne my favorite Jojo so, I am looking forward to it in any case.
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Jun 30, 2019 04:12
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Diavolo is in the background for most of the part, then, immediately after being revealed, Bruno takes over his body and Chariot Requiem becomes the driving force of the plot. And then he spends most of this fight hiding and Doppio is immediately killed off. It just really takes away a lot of what should be interesting about him almost immediately and does nothing to fill the void. Spot only. Mechafunkzilla posted:The problem with Diavolo is that Doppio is about 100x as fun and interesting Very true. Anonymous Robot posted:Parts 1-4 are fantastical but usually internally consistent and make sense. This allows character conflicts to have clearly defined rules and expectations. (The exception to this is like, Platinum Finger, which sucked rear end but was at least kinda funny.) The closest part 5 comes to having a good, classic Jojo fight is with Ghiaccio, but even then, we get all this weird conceit-stretching blood magic nonsense at the end. (Gold Experience vs the shadow vampire guy was pretty clever too.) Totally agreed. Yeah sadly this part started strong then became a hot mess. This whole Requiem business, body swapping, body horror is a whole mistake and takes everything away from what was a simple cat and mouse game between an oddball team and their insanely secretive power boss. It doesn't help that this JoJo who is never called JoJo is the least charismatic of the team with powers that are all over the place. The villain we never see until suddenly they switch bodies and now he's in plain sight. The whole thing with my Doppio is convoluted (they're two souls, but wasn't it explained that it was just one person who suffered a traumatic event? He also kept his mum under the floorboards for some reason?). Remember this whole thing started because JoJo wants to clean up the streets? Ah, what a mess
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Jun 30, 2019 04:24
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I still like it, I could never hate JoJo, but aside from some strong moments early on, and even all the way up to Chariot Requiem showing up, its devolved into a bit of mess.
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Jun 30, 2019 05:12
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sirtommygunn posted:The best fight of part 5 was clearly the tag team match of Mista + Bruno vs Pesci + Prosciutto. By a drat mile.
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Jun 30, 2019 05:50
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Anonymous Robot posted:Parts 1-4 are fantastical but usually internally consistent and make sense. This allows character conflicts to have clearly defined rules and expectations. (The exception to this is like, Platinum Finger, which sucked rear end but was at least kinda funny.) The closest part 5 comes to having a good, classic Jojo fight is with Ghiaccio, but even then, we get all this weird conceit-stretching blood magic nonsense at the end. (Gold Experience vs the shadow vampire guy was pretty clever too.) Part 6’s stands are consistent and the fights are cool but there is a lot of stuff that’s off the rails insane and one or two things that don’t make much logical sense that you just kinda have to go with. But it’s not like Giorno’s case where he just happens to have some convoluted way to solve each situation. Basically if it’s the weirdness of the stands that bothers you you’re not gonna like it, but otherwise keep watching. Either way you really should experience part 7 though
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Jun 30, 2019 06:24
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https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1143354481712795649
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Jun 30, 2019 06:47
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It's sad that part 5 stumbles a bit for the final arc as the anime has made me appreciate it a whole lot more and even this episode was a lot better than I remembered it from the manga. I personally think the Part was great up until this point but the last fight seems to sour it for people. I can see the same thing happening with the anime-onlys that happened when people read the manga which sucks for how strong the adaption was up until now imo. Also Giorno may be kind of bland, but can we just appreciate how loving awesome his theme song is?
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Jun 30, 2019 08:20
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Ah, so he's Hol Horse, it all makes sense now.
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Jun 30, 2019 09:28
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The problem is that the SVR "fight" completely replaces the final confrontation with Diavolo. In DiU Bites the Dust was the same thing of being a weird puzzle situation but after it ended Josuke still had a proper fight with Kira. Just spiballing but it would have been cool if the soul swap thing permanently separated Doppio and Diavolo, then Doppio no longer having a stand gets stabbed with the arrow and gets a new one. Then the final fight could be against both of them or maybe they convince Doppio to switch sides. Either way there still needs to be a proper fight with the protagonist(s) outsmarting Diavolo and finding a clever way to beat King Crimson. As i've said before this fight was what made me quit reading the manga back in 2012 and i've still never read part 6. I eventually went back and read Part 7 though and while i have some issues with the ending of that part as well it doesn't have the problems of this part as a whole. It's also number 2 manga on my anime list behind Beserk, so if you are put off by how this part ends you should at least give that one a chance. I think someone in the manga thread is going to do a readalong after part 5 ends. CJ fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Jun 30, 2019 |
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Jun 30, 2019 11:27
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Momomo posted:I can't think of another time they do something like Diavolo figuring out Chariot Requiem's gimmick and then immediately solving it without giving any sort of establishing scenes beforehand. There was no way for the viewer to see that coming, it just kind of happened. They actually did quite a few shots specifically focusing on the shadows that everyone was casting (moreso than Araki did in the manga iirc), so it wouldn't have been completely out of the realm of possibility that viewers could have picked up on the shadows having something to do with it. The light of the soul thing, though? Sure
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