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otome games are popular enough that this kind of template is as easily recognizable as the Dragon Quest RPG one
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Jul 3, 2019 06:29
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It's a fun trope too, I rarely get tired of it even if it's written like crap
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Jul 3, 2019 06:34
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My one gripe about the villainess otome WNs is that they rarely seem to actually engage with the concept of the game or the existence of the original protagonist. Like there's at least one where the protagonist just leaves and goes somewhere else to do typical isekai Earth-tech/ideas-sharing shenanigans, and it leaves me wondering what the point was of having them be a villainess in an otome to begin with.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:17
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Ytlaya posted:My one gripe about the villainess otome WNs is that they rarely seem to actually engage with the concept of the game or the existence of the original protagonist. Like there's at least one where the protagonist just leaves and goes somewhere else to do typical isekai Earth-tech/ideas-sharing shenanigans, and it leaves me wondering what the point was of having them be a villainess in an otome to begin with. Clickbait to get people to read it
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Jul 3, 2019 07:24
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it's really interesting how there are some that aren't actually about reincarnation or explicitly an otome game setting, but every other aspect is identical to the otome villainess wn's. well, their existence is interesting. the works themselves really are not.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:31
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Ytlaya posted:My one gripe about the villainess otome WNs is that they rarely seem to actually engage with the concept of the game or the existence of the original protagonist. Like there's at least one where the protagonist just leaves and goes somewhere else to do typical isekai Earth-tech/ideas-sharing shenanigans, and it leaves me wondering what the point was of having them be a villainess in an otome to begin with. A whole lot of them deal with the protagonist and the game/novel though? Like for a lot of them it's a core part of the plot of every chapter. Off the top of my head, Bakarina, Survive as the Hero's Wife, The Daughter of the Albert House Wishes for Ruin, Fiancée's Observation Log of the Self-proclaimed Villainess, Accomplishments of the Duke's Daughter, etc, all either make the story of the game/novel, or the protagonist, central to the story. And there are a bunch more that have ingame meters they're constantly checking and other otome elements. Unrelated, but hiiiighly reccomend This Girl Is A Little Wild, it's one of my favorites right now.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:34
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There's a few where they start freaking out because it's no longer going according to game/novel events and they're not sure what to do, others where them acting of their own will starts "breaking" characters and events and flags and causing all sorts of mixups. Honestly, compared to a lot of the RPG style Isekai, they do a lot more with the reincarnation element I feel. Also they're just generally a whole lot more enjoyable than the RPG style, and tend not to have some of the grosser elements like slavery and such, so I'm all for this new Isekai paradigm. Plus the boys are hot.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:40
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Yea they're almost always better than the male isekai
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Jul 3, 2019 08:16
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Yeah, I found it odd how my recommendation field was full of them, pages upon pages, but they've generally been more interesting than the majority of male focused isekais.everythingWasBees posted:y'all there were like three rules for this thread total We were talking about Isekai Quartet, technically. But whatever, it's not really likely to be that way. Mordaedil fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 08:19
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I eventually caught up to the current translations of Duke's Daughter WN and it really does deal with the whole otome villainess bit though in a roundabout way (spoilers for up to chapter 206 of the WN): the girl who was being bullied by iris and replaces her as the second prince's fiancee is a plant by a rival nation and has been manipulating the second prince's ambitions for the throne for their benefit. Eventually they get caught and the whole ball of twine comes undone and, well, I'm sure you know what happens to traitors in medieval monarchies I do so wish the manga wasn't monthly since it'll take years to get to that point, but oh well.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:10
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Has Isekai Quartet had anyone who was just playing an MMO get pulled in? Might see Maple or Lafusu if that thread ends up followed.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:17
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Depends on how much overlord counts I guess
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Jul 3, 2019 09:26
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everythingWasBees posted:Unrelated, but hiiiighly reccomend This Girl Is A Little Wild, it's one of my favorites right now. The last chapter ends leaving me wanting more. Come on chapter 6, please come out soon.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:26
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this one's technically not isekai unless it is but its isekai-adjacent so i'm putting it here: This Time I Will Definitely Be Happy! Country girl Louisa remembers several of her past lives. In each of her past lives, she met a boy, fell in love, and he was chosen to be the Hero, destined to defeat the Demon Lord. Each time, she waited for her love to return, and each time, he never did - because he met someone else. Her latest fiance, Graham, has just been chosen as the Hero and this time Louisa is determined not to wait, but to live her own life without him.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:55
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Captain Invictus posted:I eventually caught up to the current translations of Duke's Daughter WN and it really does deal with the whole otome villainess bit though in a roundabout way (spoilers for up to chapter 206 of the WN): the girl who was being bullied by iris and replaces her as the second prince's fiancee is a plant by a rival nation and has been manipulating the second prince's ambitions for the throne for their benefit. Eventually they get caught and the whole ball of twine comes undone and, well, I'm sure you know what happens to traitors in medieval monarchies I dropped Duke's Daughter pretty early in since I didn't like it very much (felt like it took itself overly seriously considering the genre). Your spoiler there is a good example. I'm curious though, did the author give any justification for why the "heroine" of an otome game is actually a spy? Because that seems sort of contrary to the premise of an otome game lol
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Jul 3, 2019 10:22
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Maybe it's going for a "Protagonists are actually kinda psychopaths" thing, where you're dealing with someone who organises their schedule around making a few specific people like them as much as possible, always giving the 'best' answer in a situation etc. Kinda like how a Harvest Moon style protagonist will give you a turnip every day until you marry them.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:36
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sunken fleet posted:I dropped Duke's Daughter pretty early in since I didn't like it very much (felt like it took itself overly seriously considering the genre). Your spoiler there is a good example. I'm curious though, did the author give any justification for why the "heroine" of an otome game is actually a spy? Because that seems sort of contrary to the premise of an otome game lol and yes it does take itself overly seriously, it tends to switch between slice of life and nobility/political drama and deals with a lot of minutiae about running a fiefdom and economy. She introduces some more modern things because that almost always happens in isekai at some point but it's not really the be-all end-all, like she introduces chocolate after finding cacao beans in the southern part of her territory and starts a business selling them to nobles under an alias, but it's a lot of things like trying to improve the general population's lives and stuff. As it goes on it expands into more of the overall political stage between nations, the church, etc, it has been handled really well so far. There's a relatively recent part of an arc where a natural disaster causes a massive humanitarian crisis in one of the other fiefs and the nobility holes up in their mansions while the peasantry starve and die in droves, and they try to set her fief up to take the fall by draining all their resources because the capital is afraid of the power they're amassing. It's honestly one of my favorite isekais overall, especially after reading the WN translations. I've read a few WNs of other series and this one has held it together far and away the best.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:52
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I didn't really feel like Duke's Daughter "takes itself too seriously", it's just a different sort of story genre than we usually get from an isekai. (Isekai doesn't really count as a standalone genre to me, it's just so widespread as a narrative tool and most of them do an actiony power fantasy kinda thing that they get viewed as a genre of their own.) It's a political intrigue tale, of course it'll "take itself seriously". And honestly, when you think about the spy thing it makes sense lol. It's a deconstruction of the usual otome protagonist trappings; imagine if such a character would be an actual person in that sort of setting, instead of being just a self-insert template: a seemingly unassuming girl cozies up to the prince out of nowhere and breaks his marriage to the daughter of a powerful family that would have solidified his position as king? Wouldn't be surprising that she's actually an agent sent to meddle with the country's politics. blizzardvizard fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 11:34
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My favorite take on the heroine in an otome game villainess setting is An Otome Game’s Burikko Villainess Turned into a Magic Otaku, where the heroine is also a reincarnated person, but unlike the MC she has to spend years living as a peasant before she can get to the school that was the setting of the game. She winds up going through traumatic experiences in childhood, gets pissed at the MC having gotten to live a life of luxury as a rich noble, and eventually goes on to instigate an armed peasant rebellion against the country.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:18
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The original world of the reverse-isekai protagonist of Dead Mount Death Play seems fun, they should do a spinoff
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Jul 3, 2019 12:37
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My favorite isekai otome villainess is Eliza but the translation seems to have stalled. It's sort of darker and edgier depiction of the genre, and goes with the subgenre of the events of the otome game not happening yet, so the protagonist does what they can do avert it. I got into it after I sort of grew tired of Duke's Daughter because Iris is given the perfect position to execute her isekai knowledge to empower herself. Eliza Kaldia in the game is setup as sort of the standard rival character but rather than losing her fiance to the heroine and getting banished for harassing her ala Duke's Daughter, her entire family gets executed for their collective misdeeds because the family is just all sorts of messed up. So she realizes she needs to fundamentally change the equation. By poisoning her entire family as an infant. A responsible regent is assigned to take care of her family's domain until she is of age. For much of the story so far, she's been growing up, doing bits and pieces of what she can but largely just growing up. Rather than using her isekai knowledge to revolutionize society, she's learning the ropes from the regent, who is a kindly old man without any children of his own. As she grows older and is seen as a responsible person, she is capable of wielding more influence. She feels responsible for her family's misdeeds and works towards making up for it. Not really in the interest of forgiveness but for her own benefit, since a strong loyal domain is better than one ruled by fear. More recently, after growing up and becoming a fine young lady with some rather outrageous deeds to her name, Eliza Kaldia enters the school for nobles, where the otome game takes place. And while the entire situation isn't fundamentally different, surely there's no way she'll be executed for her family's crimes, right? They're already dead and she kind of became a war hero.
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Jul 3, 2019 13:01
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Bakanogami posted:My favorite take on the heroine in an otome game villainess setting is An Otome Game’s Burikko Villainess Turned into a Magic Otaku, where the heroine is also a reincarnated person, but unlike the MC she has to spend years living as a peasant before she can get to the school that was the setting of the game. She winds up going through traumatic experiences in childhood, gets pissed at the MC having gotten to live a life of luxury as a rich noble, and eventually goes on to instigate an armed peasant rebellion against the country. and somehow, the 'heroine' was the villain because she didn't like the noble class living in opulence (including the mc and every member of her male harem) while the peasants starved. the story tried to gussy it up so the heroine would seem monstrous and delusional, but it didn't really work that well.
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Jul 3, 2019 15:55
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Bakanogami posted:My favorite take on the heroine in an otome game villainess setting is An Otome Game’s Burikko Villainess Turned into a Magic Otaku, where the heroine is also a reincarnated person, but unlike the MC she has to spend years living as a peasant before she can get to the school that was the setting of the game. She winds up going through traumatic experiences in childhood, gets pissed at the MC having gotten to live a life of luxury as a rich noble, and eventually goes on to instigate an armed peasant rebellion against the country. Where are you reading that? I can't find anything beyond chapter 16...
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Jul 3, 2019 16:25
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:and somehow, the 'heroine' was the villain because she didn't like the noble class living in opulence (including the mc and every member of her male harem) while the peasants starved. the story tried to gussy it up so the heroine would seem monstrous and delusional, but it didn't really work that well. A lot of manga/anime (and I guess WNs) seem to just sort of treat as a given that nobility is generally legitimate, up to and including nobles being more attractive, etc. Nobles who "abuse" that are treated as bad, but ones who demonstrate "noblesse oblige" or whatever are seen as good and legitimate.
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Jul 3, 2019 17:43
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K Prime posted:Where are you reading that? I can't find anything beyond chapter 16... up to vol 6, ch 16 Hasn't updated in actual years thho
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Jul 3, 2019 18:46
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I really liked this one (it was abandoned by the TL, a common happening for WNs it seems): https://www.novelupdates.com/series/i-appear-to-have-been-reincarnated-as-a-love-interest-in-an-otome-game/ The MC is actually a guy who played the otome game with his little sister. It isn't the greatest thing, but it isn't really the worst either. I would rate it above-average.
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Jul 3, 2019 21:29
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Nalin posted:I really liked this one (it was abandoned by the TL, a common happening for WNs it seems): Is this the one where he dates the villainess and there are other reincarnators or something?
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Jul 3, 2019 21:58
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blizzardvizard posted:And honestly, when you think about the spy thing it makes sense lol. It's a deconstruction of the usual otome protagonist trappings; imagine if such a character would be an actual person in that sort of setting, instead of being just a self-insert template: a seemingly unassuming girl cozies up to the prince out of nowhere and breaks his marriage to the daughter of a powerful family that would have solidified his position as king? Wouldn't be surprising that she's actually an agent sent to meddle with the country's politics.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:17
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Duke’s Daughter also has the issue that its protagonist seems to have been perfect even before the series starts, so the premise doesn’t really make much sense. I dropped it relatively quickly, but to be honest none of this discussion is really why. It’s just hard to get into a story like this unless it has a main character I like reading about, and Iris was too boring for me to care about. Like, the plot of the spider isekai is really dumb and the action is mostly mediocre, but Kumoko has a funny internal voice that makes it a joy to read anyway. “Kenkyo, kenjitsu” is great for the same reason; it took a long time for me to become invested in the other characters, but Reika’s internal voice is compelling basically immediately.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:30
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Considering that the setting of Duke's Daughter is supposed to be an otome game that probably didn't have extensive world building that went beyond "romance in a high school in a western-European aesthetic setting" as far as we know, I kind of feel like the protagonist actually living and being part of that world, just expanded the world naturally. Like, the intention of the game is romantic self-insert fluff, not a particularly deep storyline. I wouldn't call Iris perfect, but I do agree she can be a bit boring at times because being a workaholic is a flaw, but not one that makes her particularly deep. She's still memorable in the sense that shes kind of the only protagonist I can think of in this niche genre that actually goes to the lengths of being thorough about her benevolent capitalism plans and how it's supposed to work. And the plot throws a lot of huge problems where she is in dire straits which I do like because the adversity is fun to read about. I tried reading spider isekai, I couldn't really be invested. Compendium fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 03:09
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Ytlaya posted:Is this the one where he dates the villainess and there are other reincarnators or something? I mean, yes, that does happen, but that is also an incredibly vague statement considering the genre. 
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Jul 4, 2019 03:41
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Edit: WHoops
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Jul 4, 2019 03:41
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I like Duke's Daughter because one of the great inventions she brings forward is Double-Entry Bookkeeping.
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Jul 4, 2019 04:01
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I gobble all of these series up because I'm weirdly configured to like them, I guess.
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Jul 4, 2019 06:02
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Argas posted:Eliza Kaldia in the game is setup as sort of the standard rival character but rather than losing her fiance to the heroine and getting banished for harassing her ala Duke's Daughter, her entire family gets executed for their collective misdeeds because the family is just all sorts of messed up. So she realizes she needs to fundamentally change the equation. By poisoning her entire family as an infant. A responsible regent is assigned to take care of her family's domain until she is of age. For much of the story so far, she's been growing up, doing bits and pieces of what she can but largely just growing up. Jackard fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 06:23
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Jackard posted:Could have sworn I read a manga like this but now I can't find any trace of it. Well, the bit you bolded isn't really distinct enough to be unique. I'm surprised it doesn't seem to be as popular as the others but I suppose the lighter and comedic tone of Bakarina and whatnot is more preferable to darker, edgier, and more politics for the audience.
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Jul 4, 2019 06:59
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Being a workaholic might not have have the same bite to us that it does for japanese people. Since it apparently kills a ton of people over there, either through just dropping dead or suicide. It's probably more concerning for native readers. Iris remarked something like "oh this is the first time I've passed out in this life" meaning she must have done it it a fair bit as a tax accountant. Probably why it's used a lot. Both the slime witch and the one with the kid who controls slimes killed their protagonists with it. I had not read Duke's Daughter till yesterday and burned through it. Now I guess I'm stuck waiting the month for the next chapter.
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Jul 4, 2019 10:16
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Argas posted:Well, the bit you bolded isn't really distinct enough to be unique. I'm surprised it doesn't seem to be as popular as the others but I suppose the lighter and comedic tone of Bakarina and whatnot is more preferable to darker, edgier, and more politics for the audience.
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Jul 4, 2019 10:52
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Guyver posted:Being a workaholic might not have have the same bite to us that it does for japanese people. Since it apparently kills a ton of people over there, either through just dropping dead or suicide. It's probably more concerning for native readers. Iris remarked something like "oh this is the first time I've passed out in this life" meaning she must have done it it a fair bit as a tax accountant. https://www.novelupdates.com/series/common-sense-of-a-dukes-daughter/ here is the WN chapter of and continuing from the latest manga chapter's spot for your convenience: https://shirotl.wordpress.com/2017/02/13/dd-64/
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Jul 4, 2019 11:50
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Mygna posted:The original world of the reverse-isekai protagonist of Dead Mount Death Play seems fun, they should do a spinoff I didn't know about this, and it turned out to be a fun read. With the occasional lesbian threesome exposition scene out of nowhere.
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Jul 4, 2019 13:56
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