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Sleeveless posted:This is a fictional movie and your knowledge of comic book superheroes is roughly as applicable to the real world as what you think you know about quantum theory so please stop trying to rules lawyer something that is not and never was real in the first place. you're the guy reading non-existent queer subtext into the prowler so maybe you should pump the brakes a bit
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Jul 3, 2019 04:54
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| # ? May 24, 2024 16:22 |
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actually, since I'm bored and restless here's a little more effort. This is what happens when Spiderman Prime is forced into the beam:  followed immediately by quick vignettes of all the alternate-universe spider-people we're later introduced to making their first appearance on screen and here's as simple an explanation I could find to illustrate the point I'm trying to make...from the National Science Foundation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urEFoaI1iY and to be honest, I don't care much more about it than what's on the surface level because in practice its just be a conceit used by the writers to create these "spin-off" universes (peni, noir, ham, etc) in a naturalistic way that is an allegory for their actual creation as comics that could only come into existence after the 'initial' - whole - spiderman was "killed" and resurrected in various forms we see in the film. the movie also spends some time talking about quantum theory as part of the plot. this is less of a stretch then making up some bullshit about prowler being queer just because it wasn't important to the plot to explicitly show he had a female love interest.
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Jul 3, 2019 05:27
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Actually you see if you think long and hard about this YouTube video describing science I don't comprehend in the slightest, you will see that there is a logical explanation for an anthropomorphic cartoon pig named Spider-Ham's appearance in this movie, and explanation without which we would be forced to admit the movie is downright nonsensical, like for instance the notion of gay people existing, which we all know is bullshit.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:01
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The thing is Peter Parker we follow isn't even Peter Parker Prime, he's blonde for one thing. He's also not the "main Spider-Man" of his dimension based on the internal movie logic, that would be Miles Morales. In the same way that Gwen is the Spider-Person for her universe, and has a Peter Parker in her backstory who dies.
Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 07:23
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Lord_Magmar posted:The thing is Peter Parker we follow isn't even Peter Parker Prime, he's blonde for one thing. He's also not the "main Spider-Man" of his dimension based on the internal movie logic, that would be Miles Morales. In the same way that Gwen is the Spider-Person for her universe, and has a Peter Parker in her backstory who dies. Yeah, the Peter we see go into the beam is already an alternate dimension version since he's clearly not Peter-616. I guess wuffles idea could work if the baseline assumption is that Spider-Verse is completely disconnected with the rest of Marvel's multiverse, but that's never really been how they've handled things in the past. This is just a probability fork that lucked into much better writers than most of the movies and comics get to enjoy.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:39
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"Would these alternate universes exist without a machine with which to observe them" might sound like science but it's actually just the 'if-a-tree-falls-in-a-forest' philosophy question.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:19
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Spider-Ham also implies it's not his first experience with alternate dimensions. Of course, being explicitly a cartoon character, it's also quite possible that he's aware of the fourth wall.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Spider-Ham also implies it's not his first experience with alternate dimensions. Spider-Ham/Deadpool, coming this fall. Actually, I probably would read the poo poo out of that.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:45
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So how long until we get live action Tom Holland Spider-man teaming up in an animated multi-verse with other Spider-people to fight interdimensional spider-totem eating vampires in a stealth sequel to Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
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Jul 3, 2019 22:17
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I'd be fine with that as long as I never had to hear the word "totem" ever again in that context.
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Jul 4, 2019 05:12
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Now I want to see Tom Holland team up with Japanese Spider-Man.
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Jul 4, 2019 09:13
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I know that discussion has moved on from the question whether Peter B is 616 Spider-Man, but another subtle clue that he isn't is hidden in his "Let's do this one more time!" montage. There, you can briefly see his dimension's Doc Ock's arms reaching for him, and they are the arms of the Raimi movie Doc Ock.
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Jul 4, 2019 12:46
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Kind of the point is that none of them are 616 Spider-man, I'd think. Of course, I think Peter B is deliberately invoking Raimi verse Spider-man. Timelines is an interesting issue- as Peter B's reality is implied to be close enough to Miles' that the changes are just billboards and brand names, but Peter B is much older than Peter A, who's mentioned to be a grad student. Of course, the alternates include a Peter Parker who's a young man in the 30s, and a couple from distant futures, with the clear implication that the alternate dimensions can be in different places in time as well as space, or the same time where things unfolded earlier or later. ...funny thing is that this plot has basically been done before in Turtles Forever, which has different versions of the TMNT meet each other and note each others' clear differences but ultimately accept each other as being equally valid.
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Jul 4, 2019 12:59
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Ghost Leviathan posted:...funny thing is that this plot has basically been done before in Turtles Forever, which has different versions of the TMNT meet each other and note each others' clear differences but ultimately accept each other as being equally valid. It happens a fair bit in comics with the various versions of Batman teaming up, etc etc.. In the Marvel universe they had the Council of Kangs (different versions of Kang the Conqueror teaming up) which was homaged by the Council of Reeds (different evil version of Reed Richards) which was homaged/parodied on Rick & Morty by the Council of Ricks. The TMNT have actually done it several times, Deadpool has done it, the Power Rangers have done it and Spider-Man has done it a lot. One time a whole bunch of alternate versions of Wolverine played baseball against a team of alternate universe Spider-Mans.
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Jul 4, 2019 13:26
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:It happens a fair bit in comics with the various versions of Batman teaming up, etc etc.. In the Marvel universe they had the Council of Kangs (different versions of Kang the Conqueror teaming up) which was homaged by the Council of Reeds (different evil version of Reed Richards) which was homaged/parodied on Rick & Morty by the Council of Ricks. The TMNT have actually done it several times, Deadpool has done it, the Power Rangers have done it and Spider-Man has done it a lot. I need to know what this story was and where I can find it.
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Jul 5, 2019 09:26
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I don't remember that one but Exiles was a hell of a comic
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Jul 5, 2019 09:51
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Currently rewatching the movie for the umpteenth time, and I just need to say how much I love Liv. Her "secret identity" is just perfect, what with the big hair and the nerdy glasses. It's such a great moment when she does up her hair and it all falls into place. One thing that I haven't seen much talk about is how chatty she is during the fights. She is basically trash talking Peter all through the laboratory fight, and it's kinda unnerving because she is so condescending.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:03
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Grendels Dad posted:Currently rewatching the movie for the umpteenth time, and I just need to say how much I love Liv. Her "secret identity" is just perfect, what with the big hair and the nerdy glasses. It's such a great moment when she does up her hair and it all falls into place. I love her chattiness. She's kind of like traditional Spidey in that she never stops talking.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:09
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ConfusedUs posted:I love her chattiness. She's kind of like traditional Spidey in that she never stops talking. As far as I've read the comics, most of Spidey's villains are like that, if only to keep up with Spidey while they try to squash him. Liv feels a lot more gleeful, though, probably because as you said, she loves her job. I have difficulties putting it into the right words, but making Liv a woman makes her more fun but also more frightening. She's got a teacher thing going on, showing up first in the scene where Miles is late for class and gets quietly chewed out by his teacher. And she reveals herself to a Peter who's strapped down to a chair, dropping her lab coat. Maybe that's all just me being Doctor Oedipus, but I feel like there is a whole lot going on with Liv.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:27
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Some of the Spider-Verse villains are motivated by their wallets, some are motivated by their tragic dead families. Liv is here for science. She wants to watch people suffer if they suffer in interesting ways. She already knows that Kingpin's plan won't work. She knows people brought from other dimensions will slowly, painfully destabilize. Olivia Octavious don't give a gently caress! She wants to tear the multiverse in half and poke the twitching innards. She's great, I love her.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:38
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My wife finally sat down to watch Spiderverse (she basically hates movies longer than an hour and a half) and made it through the whole thing without needing a break. Loved talking about all the moments of symmetry in the film afterwards. She got a little emotional at Aaron's scene in the alley, and went "    " for the Liv reveal.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:46
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The very first moment in the movie making me tear up was Aunt May telling Peter B. he looks tired, but yeah Aaron in the alley was another big one. I cry so much during this Spider-Man movie 
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Jul 5, 2019 22:53
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I’ve seen it 4 times now and it’s wrecked me throughout every time. Happy tears, sad tears, just general too many feelings tears. It’s so good, you guys. 
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Jul 5, 2019 22:59
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The Liv reveal works so well because most people under the age of 40 are going to identify her as a Miss Frizzle knockoff. I know I dropped my guard.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:24
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Also she's nowhere in any of the trailers. All the other villains get at least a little bit of screentime, enough for the trailer analysts to go nuts, but Doc Ock doesn't so she basically shows up out of nowhere in the movie.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:27
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The Michelin Man style arms was a nice touch as well.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:34
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I like how Doc Ock still gets teased early in the movie, though. You can actually see Liv's arm choking Peter Prime during the very first origin montage, which also references a bunch of moments from Spider-Man 2. You can briefly see Molina-Ock's arms reaching for Peter B in his origin montage, and Gwen is sucked into the multi-verse while fighting a more classic Doc Ock. It's just so much fun how the movie subtly maintains awareness of Doc Ock, and then drops Liv on you.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:37
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Vakal posted:The Michelin Man style arms was a nice touch as well. Truth be told, they kinda remind me of umbilical chords. But that might just be me being Oedipal again.
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Jul 5, 2019 23:38
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YggiDee posted:Some of the Spider-Verse villains are motivated by their wallets, some are motivated by their tragic dead families. Liv is here for science. She wants to watch people suffer if they suffer in interesting ways. She already knows that Kingpin's plan won't work. She knows people brought from other dimensions will slowly, painfully destabilize. Olivia Octavious don't give a gently caress! She wants to tear the multiverse in half and poke the twitching innards. She's great, I love her. Liv is Dr. Vahlen if aliens didn't invade to give her life "positive" meaning.
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Jul 6, 2019 01:12
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:Spider-Ham/Deadpool, coming this fall. Roger Rabbit style movie.
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Jul 6, 2019 01:36
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Grendels Dad posted:I like how Doc Ock still gets teased early in the movie, though. You can actually see Liv's arm choking Peter Prime during the very first origin montage, which also references a bunch of moments from Spider-Man 2. You can briefly see Molina-Ock's arms reaching for Peter B in his origin montage, and Gwen is sucked into the multi-verse while fighting a more classic Doc Ock. It's just so much fun how the movie subtly maintains awareness of Doc Ock, and then drops Liv on you. The video playing in Miles’ classroom has her joking about alternate dimensions where she could be wearing leather pants 
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Jul 6, 2019 01:43
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Vakal posted:The Michelin Man style arms was a nice touch as well. The way the arms pulsated and throbbed and what not made me wonder if her arms conferred some kind of physiological bonus in a way that other Doc Ocks wouldn't have, since Liv took a shitload of damage from various Spider-people throughout the movie and generally bounced back pretty quick each time up until the big battle. She got three-hit combo'd and then just shook it off! Just another example of great design and great characterization that provokes you to think about the movie more deeply. Also having her voiced by Kathryn Hahn was just *chef kissing fingers meme*.
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Jul 6, 2019 02:42
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A lot of Spider-man villains evoke animals and I think Doc Ock has been a prominent one specifically because they also evoke a dangerous eight-armed creature with varied and unexpected abilities. Liv's design seems meant to evoke an octopus, having big hair like an octopus' head (see also Splatoon 2 having one of the hairstyles for male Octolings be an afro) and glasses that look like big bulging eyes. The transparent rubber tentacles are definitely meant to be uncomfortably organic compared to the metal ones (Though Spider-Man 2 definitely did a good job making the tentacles menacing and almost characters of their own) and invoke more strangulation and suffocation than crushing or impalement, just like how a real octopus catches its prey. When playing up Doc Ock as a counterpart to Peter, they usually play up then scientific aspect, especially with how he's an idol for Peter in Spider-man 2 and that bit in the comics where Otto Octavius briefly took over Peter Parker's body and set up a successful science business. Both of them are super-powered individuals with a knack for science that helps them figure out problems, but Doc Ock doesn't have a conscience or much sense.Also definitely being played as a prominent villain, an equal to Kingpin in her own way rather than just another superpowered thug working for him. (Green Goblin seems to be just another one of those, but hard to tell with his appearance. Norman Osborn is usually played as a major villain since he's basically Lex Luthor and also the Joker)
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Jul 6, 2019 03:28
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Yvonmukluk posted:I need to know what this story was and where I can find it. Deadpool: Too Soon? issue #6. This is pretty much the entire sequence:      
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Jul 6, 2019 10:20
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Deadpool: Too Soon? issue #6. This is pretty much the entire sequence: It's up there with the time the Avengers played against Galactus & his heralds to save Earth. (Marvel Adventures was so good, you guys).
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Jul 6, 2019 16:33
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Grendels Dad posted:The very first moment in the movie making me tear up was Aunt May telling Peter B. he looks tired, but yeah Aaron in the alley was another big one. I love this bit because earlier when he does the comic book backstory part he reveals aunt May is dead in his universe so when he says "I'm not ready for this" when they're stood outside I consider how weird that situation is. The way he reacts to her and softens up his voice when she steps up to him...
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Jul 6, 2019 17:34
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Unlucky7 posted:I am hoping in the spinoff/sequels that if they do something with J. Jonah Jameson, they borrow the Insomniac games' version, who is retired from the Daily Bugle and is running an Infowars-esque podcast. It was fun in that game and I am sure that Miller and Lord's sensibilities would go wild on that. This aged well
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Jul 6, 2019 20:49
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The_Doctor posted:I’ve seen it 4 times now and it’s wrecked me throughout every time. Happy tears, sad tears, just general too many feelings tears. It’s so good, you guys. The leap of faith scene is a rollercoaster of emotions just on its own.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:53
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I love this bit because earlier when he does the comic book backstory part he reveals aunt May is dead in his universe so when he says "I'm not ready for this" when they're stood outside I consider how weird that situation is. The way he reacts to her and softens up his voice when she steps up to him... That Peter gets to see May again is definitely a part of it, but for me it was especially touching that May just acknowledged Peter B's struggle. He mentions during the lab break that he forgot how it feels to have someone looking after him, and he's been heroing a good deal longer than the other Spider-People and has consequently been through a lot, it felt like such a warm moment to have someone go "I can see what you have been through!"
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Jul 6, 2019 22:32
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| # ? May 24, 2024 16:22 |
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The part of Spider-Verse that wrecked me was the Peter B. / Mary Jane scene, where Peter pours out his heart in apology. "I wasn't there when you needed me." It just reminded me of my divorce and completely loving broke me. 
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Jul 6, 2019 22:41
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