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Von der Leyen, loving really?
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Jul 2, 2019 18:16
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Even in case it wont happen (it will), we're preemptively sorry  I think I'll kinda miss Juncker giving zero fucks The rest of him not so much
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Jul 2, 2019 18:28
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Orange Devil posted:Von der Leyen, loving really? At least she is (was) a slight upgrade to the weird noble guy we had before her. Of course that can't be, so off she goes to other, "better" opportunities. We're so sorry
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Jul 2, 2019 18:47
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Orange Devil posted:Von der Leyen, loving really? Wanna tell us more about her? I'm not in the know who she is, I'm just an ignorant northerner.
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Jul 2, 2019 18:52
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Libluini posted:At least she is (was) a slight upgrade to the weird noble guy we had before her. Of course that can't be, so off she goes to other, "better" opportunities. We're so sorry gently caress, whatever happened to that guy. I mean sure, plagarism and so on, but wasn't he supposedly making a comeback?
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Jul 2, 2019 19:02
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She's an EU federalist apparently, will be interesting.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:06
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No. 1 Callie Fan posted:Wanna tell us more about her? I'm not in the know who she is, I'm just an ignorant northerner. She's the kind of person who made Schauble, of all loving people, reel off of her extremism during the Greek crisis, prompting him to release an interview where he defined working with extremists like her 'like walking with a lit candle in a room full of nitroglicerine.' Great job with the EU nominations overall though, I'm sure Palpatine and Saruman couldn't make it so they had to settle. Can't imagine why people feel disheartened with EU institutions. e: and lagarde at the ECB lmao, it's like a caricature of a political system at this point. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 19:13
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mortons stork posted:She's the kind of person who made Schauble, of all loving people, reel off of her extremism during the Greek crisis, prompting him to release an interview where he defined working with extremists like her 'like walking with a lit candle in a room full of nitroglicerine.' People should be less disheartened with EU institutions than with the leaders of the member states who gave us this spectacle. They could have done a lot worse than Lagarde at the ECB though; unlike Jens Weidmann who was being bruited about first as the next ECB head, she's not insane when it comes to austerity. Also glad that fascist enabler Manfred Weber didn't end up as Commission president though it remains to be seen if Von der Leyen is an improvement.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:33
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mortons stork posted:She's the kind of person who made Schauble, of all loving people, reel off of her extremism during the Greek crisis, prompting him to release an interview where he defined working with extremists like her 'like walking with a lit candle in a room full of nitroglicerine.' He has been pope already(, and lived to tell the tale). Presumably this would be too much of a downgrade for him.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:40
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Pluskut Tukker posted:People should be less disheartened with EU institutions than with the leaders of the member states who gave us this spectacle. The same EU institutions designed by the predecessors of those leaders to specifically be able to be hosed with in this way. Yeah, no reason to be disheartened with these institutions at all.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:46
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I'm not German but from everything I can read about her in the English press she seems to have expanded benefits/spending both on defence and maternity leave, also she got into a spat with Salvini over the Italian treatment of boat refugees:quote:Chancellor Angela Merkel’s defense minister accused Italy of sabotaging a migration rescue mission in the central Mediterranean Sea, sharply escalating a dispute between Berlin and Rome’s populist government. She did say that Greece should post a collateral before the bailout so they don't default and got into a bunch of controversies for using Accenture too much. But on the whole she doesn't come across as ultra-Conservative as others in her party. e: Like Pluskut Tusker I'm also a lot happier about her than a fash like Weber. With the losses to liberals the mainstream left has suffered in the last elections it wasn't going to be a leftist either way. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 19:46
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Didn't her son get hired by McKinsey or something right around the time they got an armload full of gigs from the German defense ministry?
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Jul 2, 2019 21:17
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Junior G-man posted:Didn't her son get hired by McKinsey or something right around the time they got an armload full of gigs from the German defense ministry? Yeah, that was the Accenture bit (I think it was both them and McKinsey). She's known as skandalminister in some German press sooo. But she was supposed to replace Merkel before that and was criticised for being too spendy by some within her party. Either way she's certainly not clean, but then again neither was Junker either. I still think it's a lot better than a more traditional conservative.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:36
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Orange Devil posted:The same EU institutions designed by the predecessors of those leaders to specifically be able to be hosed with in this way. Yeah, no reason to be disheartened with these institutions at all. It's an international organization, messy and dirty politics being involved in the appointment of its leadership is inevitable. The only difference with past negotiations is that there are more different players and political currents involved this time around. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 21:39
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Ursula von der Leyen is Germany's current defense minister; while at this post she has pushed to reduce the dependence on the US for Germany's, and more generally Europe's, defense. Notably she signed partnerships with her French counterpart for development of aircraft and tanks, and in order to do so has rejected the F-35. Just for that last point, I am cautiously optimistic.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:54
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That said S&D candidate Timmermans would have been better, but then they didn't do very well in the elections.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:09
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Trading Juncker for von der Leyen is like trading Yelzin for Putin
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Jul 2, 2019 22:09
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Lord Stimperor posted:Trading Juncker for von der Leyen is like trading Yelzin for Putin From the perspective of them being two bad sides of the same coin sure. I just don't really dislike Juncker either, though he's no socialist to be sure. And it was Weber who was the lead candidate of the EPP, which is how Juncker got in last time.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:18
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Parliament should just reject everybody the member states nominate, with a pointed reminder each time that they will only ever vote for either Weber, Timmermans, or Vestager.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:27
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Von der Leyen definitely is part of the conservative faction of the CDU in Germany. Like many conservatives within the CDU she just has a few issues where she is slightly more modern. Also, ever since Merkel "retired" her to the Defense ministry, she didn't really have any great opportunities to opine in social policy matters. She also once showed child pornography to journalists in order to stop journalists criticizing her proposed internet laws.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:28
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Flintenuschi Zensursula Zensursula 2.0
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Jul 2, 2019 22:31
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Randler posted:Von der Leyen definitely is part of the conservative faction of the CDU in Germany. Like many conservatives within the CDU she just has a few issues where she is slightly more modern. Also, ever since Merkel "retired" her to the Defense ministry, she didn't really have any great opportunities to opine in social policy matters. Was gonna make a five page effort post on this poo poo story. The only thing that she's proven is that she can cynically exploit the suffering in order to further her own agenda, which has been and will always only be her own power and authoritarianism.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:34
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The UK does the same thing as Zensursula (blocking child porn websites via a government list) and it's seen as uncontroversial even by Labour. Then again following the UK example on civil liberties is probably not the best idea. e: I don't exactly want to google about this but there's literally a person in UKMT who works on it for a living (it may or may not be the only thing he does, but he did joke about blocking SA once). Private Speech fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 22:50
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I really don't want to do the effort post, but the problems were, shortly: 1) method they chose. They wanted to use a list of bad websites from Australia. That list had been leaked and been shown to overwhelmingly just contain regular porn, long dead links, and links to dentistry practices, gardening shops, and so forth. 1a) no appeals procedure. There was no way to contest being put on the pedo list. Customers avoid you because the website says you're a pedo? Sucks to suck. 1b) method doesn't address problem. Estimates at the time said that there were very few if any illegal sites. Rather the pedos were supposedly using Tor, snail mail, or otherwise forums that weren't just open to the public. Dns blocking wouldnt help, and everyone who was savvy enough for secret internet stuff would easily just change the settings in the browser to defeat the block. 2) method would have made the problem worse. By placing a huge dumb stop sign in front of the site, the owners and visitors would be tipped off that they're in the spotlight. 3) the purpose was not to defeat child sexual abuse. Or at least that's how it seemed, because there were 0 plans to remove the web sites, or persecute their owners. Rather than going after people who abused children, the plan was specifically to just put a sign up to please look away and call it a day. 3a) while Ursula was busy talking about how this was meant to protect children (yadda yadda), CDU politicians were already debating how you could block islamist and leftist and otherwise damaging content on the list. 3c) the lack of intended persecution was not a matter of ability but of motivation. Once the list of web sites was leaked, an independent organisation showed that web hosts would overwhelmingly pull illegal sites within 24 hours and fully cooperate with the police. Again, ursulas plan specifically meant to not remove child sexual abuse sites or persecuting them, despite that being easily possible. This demonstrated a lack of intent to actually to do something about child abuse, and raised the question what this initiative was about instead. 4) cynical and horrible presentation. As randler said Ursula would invite journalists to a day care center and show them literal child porn there. She had family connections to tv people who were pushing her agenda on national TV, with shows specifically dedicated to her 'cause'. when her plans were criticized for their cynical ineffectiveness, CDU politicians were very publicly wondering 'mhhhh what kind of person would oppose ending child porn' 5) timign with other government measures. Her initiative came at the high water mark of government surveillance, when the government was pushing hard to have every digital trace of citizens stored for as long as possible. 6) insult to victims of child abuse. Victims of child abuse did not appreciate being paraded around for Ursula and said so publicly, especially given that her plan never was to remove the content or prosecute the producers, thus intentionally leaving the abuse online for perpetuity So in short it was a method where it was clear that it would not address a relevant part of the problem, that would be ineffective because it would target mostly innocent people, would be trivisl to circumvent for criminals, did not in any way intend to prosecute abusers, would leave the abuse online. What it would have achieved was to create a tool that could without oversight and possibility for appeal be used to censor any kind of web site, in a country that had very bad experiences with these kind of government tools It was really no wonder that this didn't go down well. It was very clear from the start that the initiative was never meant to help any victims of child abuse or to reduce child abuse in any way, but it only dragged victims through the media in order to establish an authoritarian practice with which Ursula could have padded her CV Sorry for not sourcing the posts and for typos and bad styles, I'm in phone and in bed Lord Stimperor fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 23:20
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Perception of von der Leyen, and other politicians of her generation, outside Germany are probably more favorable outside Germany due to non-German media not looking back far enough. German domestic politics of the early 21th century (Schröder and early Merkel) years mostly revolved around the reform of the welfare state (i.e. pension, unemployment, insurances, etc.) and internet and media regulation (i.e. data privacy, surveillance, copyright laws, etc). For both areas, the UK (as well as its big brother the US), were used as an example by the government and as a cautionary tale by the parliamentary and non-parliamentary opposition. Needless to say, the government mostly prevailed with pushing Germany closer towards the Anglosphere approach to those topics. By comparison, the later Merkel years were somewhat uneventful until the full impact of the rejuvinated far-right and climate politics becoming mainstream took over. So when people like von der Leyen get nominated for stuff, the media (in particular non-German media) will only look back the last few years where nothing much has happened. But for people who have been around back in Schröder/early Merkel days there is additional context when forming opinions about those politicians.
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Jul 2, 2019 23:53
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I think that not having Manfred "I don't believe in fiat money" Weber at the head of the ECB is perhaps the most significant point. The financial and banking situation in the EU is a horrid mess, but at least the head of the ECB won't be a straight pyromaniac. (Unless I am mistaking Weber for somebody else ofc). It might make the whole thing last a little longer. Also, Saruman for the ECB, Palpatine for the EC 2024 baby!
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Jul 3, 2019 07:40
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Randler posted:Perception of von der Leyen, and other politicians of her generation, outside Germany are probably more favorable outside Germany due to non-German media not looking back far enough. Read: the government liberalised the labour market and cut the welfare state hard. Then a few years later *FOR SOME REASON* the far right starts making serious political inroads.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:51
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Dawncloack posted:I think that not having Manfred "I don't believe in fiat money" Weber at the head of the ECB is perhaps the most significant point. The financial and banking situation in the EU is a horrid mess, but at least the head of the ECB won't be a straight pyromaniac. (Unless I am mistaking Weber for somebody else ofc). Wasn't that Martin Selmayr? What happened to him?
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Jul 3, 2019 12:11
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Oh, he's the boss of the bureaucratic apparatus. His appointment there is one of those shining examples of democracy that the EU has us used to. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/a-very-eu-coup-martin-selmayrs-astonishing-power-grab/ edit: countdown to someone showing up to explain to us that ACTUALLY this dirty manouver was not the EU but the leaders of the EU and so the EU is democratic and perfect. So let me preempt that: If the rules of the EU allow this kind of fuckery, and this fuckery is antidemocratic, the institution that applies those rules is antidemocratic. Dawncloack fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 13:33
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The rules of the EU theoretically does not allow this kind of fuckery. But this doesn't stop it from happening.
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Jul 3, 2019 14:40
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Is there any reason to believe von der Leyen will get approval of the EP? Is that already a foregone conclusion?
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Jul 3, 2019 14:46
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Hey Cat Mattress! Could you expand on what you said? Do you mean rules qere disregarded? What rules? This is an earnest question and it's legit not to know (the eu has MANY rules after all), but if you can tell me Id love to learn. Thanks and keep being a chill bro 
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Jul 3, 2019 16:06
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I have no idea about who this guy is (beyond being a new politician) but this is a fun tweet https://twitter.com/MagicMagid/status/1146022757580386306
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Jul 3, 2019 16:24
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Nosre posted:I have no idea about who this guy is (beyond being a new politician) but this is a fun tweet He's a Somalian refugee and something of a minor celebrity in Britain. I mean to be fair he doesn't dress like a typical MEP exactly. e: I also love all those Brexit Party avatar cunts in the comments getting upset that he's not showing proper respect to the EU parliament, rather funny. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 17:08
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He seems pretty dope.
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Jul 3, 2019 17:25
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Private Speech posted:He's a Somalian refugee and something of a minor celebrity in Britain. e: His official photo: 
A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 17:26
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He had them play Imperial March on his inauguration too. (the Sheffield one)
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Jul 3, 2019 17:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Also former Lord Mayor of Sheffield. This man is straight ballin'.
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Jul 3, 2019 17:49
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Dawncloack posted:Hey Cat Mattress! Could you expand on what you said? Do you mean rules qere disregarded? What rules? This gal says it better than I could: https://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/decision/en/109855 Scroll to the annexes for specific details, e.g.: quote:31. The Ombudsman’s inquiry revealed that the Deputy Secretary-General appointment procedure did not serve its stated purpose, namely to fill the Deputy Secretary-General vacancy, but rather only served to ensure that Mr Selmayr would become legally eligible to be immediately reassigned as Secretary-General, without any procedure to identify candidates for the post of Secretary-General and to compare their merits.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:49
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Thanks!
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Jul 3, 2019 19:23
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