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Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Like should we consider dumplings noodles? I think these are important questions and I'm here to ask them.
I asked my wife for chicken noodle soup once and she made chicken soup with these horrid german dumplings called "spaetzle" and I'm not ashamed to say going full Chris Benoit crossed my mind

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Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

I really like sichuan noodles. Thai food is great too. I think when it comes to noodles, the thai have the best. Sure, pho is really good and so is bun. Ramen is delicious and I like yakisoba. Is dum sum "noodles?" Like should we consider dumplings noodles? I think these are important questions and I'm here to ask them.

All noodles are a sandwich.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

ActusRhesus posted:

Some noodles are dim sum. Not all noodles are dim sum. Not all dim sum are noodles.

Dumplings are not noodles.

And it’s dim sum. Not dum sum.

It’s a typo jerk

Sick my duck

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."
Spaetzel is good. You’re wrong.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Phil Moscowitz posted:

It’s a typo jerk

Sick my duck

Duck makes good dim sum.

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
Dumplings have filling but sometimes the chow fun noodles at dim sum are filled with shrimp and that makes them dumplings

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Noodle appraisal is complicated. Not easy like saying which lawyers suck rear end and should be relegated to tonguing satan’s o-ring for all eternity (it’s plaintiff lawyers)

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

GrandmaParty posted:

Dumplings have filling but sometimes the chow fun noodles at dim sum are filled with shrimp and that makes them dumplings

No. I know the dish of which you speak. It’s shrimp wrapped in a noodle. Arguably a crepe. But not a dumpling. And as it’s listed as a loving noodle on the menu.... who am I to dictate their culture to them?

Noodle.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene

blarzgh posted:

One of the lawyers around here where I practice, that I really really respect, is a dude who represented pedophiles against like 30 cities; some of whom I represented against him in those cases. He (or more accurately, the organization he represented) challenged the power of municipalities to employ larger residency restrictions than the state-proscribed ones for people already on the sex offender registry.

In other words, he was going from courtroom to courtroom arguing that local communities should allow child rapists to live closer to parks and elementary schools.

He is absolutely on your list. Even if you're enlightened enough to understand the interplay of federalism, and the interplay of criminal justice, social protections and reformation, then he's still on most people's list. He is going to have trouble finding work and supporting himself after becoming a public pariah for taking on a case like that. He makes the list you want for 9 out of 10 people.

But, what he was really standing up to was the State's authority to use a certain provision of the Local Government Code as broadly as it was. He was, in the most diabolical of now-non-hypothetical cases, pushing back against the power of the State, in a manner is inherently good for its citizens. Taken to the logical extreme, the exercise of that power, under that clause, had no limits.

And he lost, mostly because of me. And if you ask whether I agreed with the position I was advocating for, it doesn't matter. I was doing my job. But, he also won, because the Legislature added those residency restrictions to another section of the code, which signals a tighter limit to the first section of code than municipalities originally exercised. So, in advocating on behalf of child rapists for the chance to be closer to children to rape, he did something right and necessary in challenging the government's reach.

But your List would have him as shamed, and reviled, and judged as a "bad person" because of the client he represented, and the cause they sought to push forward. You may say, "well he wouldn't be on MY list." Most other people, the ones not so Enlightened as you, will absolutely shame, revile, and judge him.

But here is what I'm saying: there should be no list, because even though the things at the top of everyone's list are easy to agree on, the ones at the bottom are always at risk of being denied sufficient representation, solely by the fact that the list exists.

Seems like you were the badguy and he was the good guy even though he represented pedos

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009
Kamala bad. Her conduct as prosecutor just one dimension of that badness.

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009
Also that seal who snuffed a wounded prisoner was acquitted on everything but the most obvious and provable count. Lol at how bad crimes have to be for soldiers to be held accountable for them. Apparently worse than killing an injured prisoner in cold blood while he received medical attention

quote:

The defense portrayed Gallagher as an "old-school, hard-charging warrior" who was targeted by younger "millennial" SEALs who harbored "personal animosity" toward him.

We live in loving hell

terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jul 2, 2019

Eminent Domain
Sep 23, 2007



Look Sir Droids posted:

All noodles are a sandwich.

But are they also tacos?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Spring rolls are burritos

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

terrorist ambulance posted:

Also that seal who snuffed a wounded prisoner was acquitted on everything but the most obvious and provable count. Lol at how bad crimes have to be for soldiers to be held accountable for them. Apparently worse than killing an injured prisoner in cold blood while he received medical attention


We live in loving hell

Well...

When a foreign General with zero stake in the game testifies that it didn’t happen, a marine officer says “I cant stand that rear end in a top hat, but it didn’t happen, and the government’s key witness says “oh. By the way. I have immunity now... I’m actually the one that killed him...” and the allegations were all brought by people with major credibility/bias issues...

It’s less a “soldiers not being held accountable” and more a “the prosecution brought a lovely case” (btw. Same prosecution got lead counsel booted from the case for doing email surveillance on defense counsel.)

The government tried a lovely case. Don’t put that on the jurors.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

blarzgh posted:

JK, you're saying

ok this post would have embarrassed vitalsigns. what i'm saying is the post i quoted, not your nonsense interpretation.

at the end of the day this is the basic flaw in your logic is that you want a hard and fast rule that gives you absolution. you don't get it. you keep arguing that i must be saying x or must be saying y or a whole lot of nonsense but it just boils down to that i reject your premise that your decisions about who or what to represent as a lawyer are a moral vacuum. that's it.

i mean, you get into immense amounts of nonsense about "a list" and demand to know who maintains The List. well, i maintain the list i judge people by. other people maintain the list they judge people by. we are all required, as human beings who function in a society, to make moral decisions about our own actions and judgments about other people's actions. the distinction between something being morally wrong and being legally wrong: we do not all need to agree on what is morally wrong because we don't put people in jail for doing morally wrong (but legal) things.

you use your example of someone who people might think did the wrong thing because he represented bad people, but in a situation where you assert he is nonethless doing the right thing. that is a complicated situation where people might disagree; or if there is a right answer some might get it wrong. you don't get to declare you don't like the answers some people might come up with so it's wrong for them to assign moral weight to it. that is...uh, not correct.

the world is complicated and you cannot deal with that by declaring people may not engage that complexity. it doesn't work that way. once you agree that yes, there are in fact situations where it's not really complicated, it's just bad, then we are forced to deal with a spectrum from right to wrong, and difficulty in knowing where something lies on that spectrum. that's hard. but that doesn't mean you get to just declare nobody is to consider it.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Phil Moscowitz posted:

I really like sichuan noodles. Thai food is great too. I think when it comes to noodles, the thai have the best. Sure, pho is really good and so is bun. Ramen is delicious and I like yakisoba. Is dum sum "noodles?" Like should we consider dumplings noodles? I think these are important questions and I'm here to ask them.
Dim sum are tacos

Soothing Vapors posted:

I asked my wife for chicken noodle soup once and she made chicken soup with these horrid german dumplings called "spaetzle" and I'm not ashamed to say going full Chris Benoit crossed my mind
Spaetzle is awesome. You wife is either a bad cook or you have no taste. Well, we've already established that latter.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

blarzgh posted:

One of the lawyers around here where I practice, that I really really respect, is a dude who represented pedophiles against like 30 cities; some of whom I represented against him in those cases. He (or more accurately, the organization he represented) challenged the power of municipalities to employ larger residency restrictions than the state-proscribed ones for people already on the sex offender registry.

In other words, he was going from courtroom to courtroom arguing that local communities should allow child rapists to live closer to parks and elementary schools.

He is absolutely on your list. Even if you're enlightened enough to understand the interplay of federalism, and the interplay of criminal justice, social protections and reformation, then he's still on most people's list. He is going to have trouble finding work and supporting himself after becoming a public pariah for taking on a case like that. He makes the list you want for 9 out of 10 people.

Keep in mind that in many cases, the sex offender registry is overused, and there are quite a few people on it who are of minimal risk to reoffend. It's also for life, so you have cases like a 70 year old in a wheelchair who can't move into a nursing home because it is near a school. Also, those laws are often so restrictive that they lead to sex offenders becoming homeless, which is worse then them staying in a fixed place where they can be monitored. If the state believes these people should be in normal society, as opposed to a prison or mental institution, then they should give these people the tools to become contributing members.

GamingHyena
Jul 25, 2003

Devil's Advocate
gently caress "The ListTM." Wow, you're against people molesting children? Well congrats for taking such a controversial moral stand. I'm sure they'll build a statue of you next to the guy who said kicking puppies is wrong. Either Constitutional rights means something or they don't. As someone who comes from a state whose courts routinely put an asterisk next to the 4th through 14th Amendments I can easily say most of our awful caselaw comes from courts to chickenshit to risk assigning an actual consequence to the State's abuses because of the nature of the crime. And that bad caselaw ends up limiting everyone's rights.

In the criminal justice system, as a practical matter, all accused are guilty unless proven innocent. The prosecutor thinks it. The juries thinks it. The judge definitely thinks it. And there's no surprise given the massive amount of pro police media the public is fed everyday. Once we start pressuring lawyers who represent unpopular clients to think it too because they'd rather be socially accepted than fight for their clients then we might as well have the honestly to do away with the entire court system.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."
Media is pretty anti-law enforcement at the moment.

But other than that. Yes. Agree.

Though is it really a bad thing the prosecution thinks the defendant is guilty? That’s kind of a given or the charges would have been dropped.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
I mean, yeah, prosecutors should obviously think someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise why the gently caress are they brining charges?

GamingHyena
Jul 25, 2003

Devil's Advocate
The point isn’t that it’s a bad thing if prosecutors believe an accused is guilty. The point is EVERYONE in the system assumes a defendant is guilty and in most cases the deck is largely stacked against them from the start. If we start cowing defense attorneys to act the same way lest they face public ridicule then we no longer have an adversarial system. The scary thing is how many people these days are okay with that if it’s the “correct” defendant getting railroaded.

As that thread in D&D shows, justice for some is apparently an idea that enjoys broad bipartisan support.

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."
Pretty sure they were talking about civil representation and the consensus was defense counsel get a pass Bc constitution.

And I’m not sure you’re right about judges and jurors assuming guilt.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

ActusRhesus posted:

There’s also “how” you defend.

Point out issues in credibility of child sex assault victim. Fair. Tell mom of sex assault victim you’ll call CPS and get her kids taken away if she testifies, gently caress you.

Yeah and not to mention that would be criminal witness tampering and intimidation as well as an obstruction charge. Well, in Norway. So at that point they aren't even a lawyer anymore.


ActusRhesus posted:

Pretty sure they were talking about civil representation and the consensus was defense counsel get a pass Bc constitution.

Exclusively, yes.

And as much as I hate to agree with anyone ever

evilweasel posted:

ok this post would have embarrassed vitalsigns. what i'm saying is the post i quoted, not your nonsense interpretation.

at the end of the day this is the basic flaw in your logic is that you want a hard and fast rule that gives you absolution. you don't get it. you keep arguing that i must be saying x or must be saying y or a whole lot of nonsense but it just boils down to that i reject your premise that your decisions about who or what to represent as a lawyer are a moral vacuum. that's it.

i mean, you get into immense amounts of nonsense about "a list" and demand to know who maintains The List. well, i maintain the list i judge people by. other people maintain the list they judge people by. we are all required, as human beings who function in a society, to make moral decisions about our own actions and judgments about other people's actions. the distinction between something being morally wrong and being legally wrong: we do not all need to agree on what is morally wrong because we don't put people in jail for doing morally wrong (but legal) things.

you use your example of someone who people might think did the wrong thing because he represented bad people, but in a situation where you assert he is nonethless doing the right thing. that is a complicated situation where people might disagree; or if there is a right answer some might get it wrong. you don't get to declare you don't like the answers some people might come up with so it's wrong for them to assign moral weight to it. that is...uh, not correct.

the world is complicated and you cannot deal with that by declaring people may not engage that complexity. it doesn't work that way. once you agree that yes, there are in fact situations where it's not really complicated, it's just bad, then we are forced to deal with a spectrum from right to wrong, and difficulty in knowing where something lies on that spectrum. that's hard. but that doesn't mean you get to just declare nobody is to consider it.

Yeah pretty much.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
Although this now is hosed up

nm posted:

Dim sum are tacos

They are clearly sandwiches.

nm posted:

Spaetzle is awesome. You wife is either a bad cook or you have no taste. Well, we've already established that latter.

I have know idea what Spaetzle is, but I still laughed.

E: so it's basically macaroni? loving americans with your mac and cheese.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 12 hours!

El_Elegante posted:

Law Megathread: I get around this by being deeply stupid AND hating everyone

Speaking of remarkably accurate depictions of the legal system, have I got a game for you!

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
Mistrial. Court is not legally seated, jury only has three members.

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?
Why do we scream at each other? This is what it sounds like when doves cry.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Nice piece of fish posted:

Although this now is hosed up


They are clearly sandwiches.


I have know idea what Spaetzle is, but I still laughed.

E: so it's basically macaroni? loving americans with your mac and cheese.
Sandwiches are tacos
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A4tzle

Munin
Nov 14, 2004


ActusRhesus posted:

Well...

When a foreign General with zero stake in the game testifies that it didn’t happen, a marine officer says “I cant stand that rear end in a top hat, but it didn’t happen, and the government’s key witness says “oh. By the way. I have immunity now... I’m actually the one that killed him...” and the allegations were all brought by people with major credibility/bias issues...

It’s less a “soldiers not being held accountable” and more a “the prosecution brought a lovely case” (btw. Same prosecution got lead counsel booted from the case for doing email surveillance on defense counsel.)

The government tried a lovely case. Don’t put that on the jurors.

So let me get this straight, a prisoner was indeed executed but one of the people tried to stick it on a guy he hated and the government's star witness turned out to be the perpetrator and everything is hosed now? What did the foreign general say didn't happen? Is anyone in this entire affair not full of bullshit somehow?

Nice piece of fish posted:

I have know idea what Spaetzle is, but I still laughed.

E: so it's basically macaroni? loving americans with your mac and cheese.

Spätzle are delicious and not mac & cheese even if they are often served up as another starch, cheese and bacon variant.

Munin fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 3, 2019

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.
https://twitter.com/New_Narrative/status/1146440606413139968

Jesus loving christ....

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 12 hours!

I appreciate your attempt at humor but I have comprehensively addressed the sandwich question in a series of properly cited posts beginning here:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3865334&userid=198104&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post489345245

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009

No his buddy says HE was the one who actually killed him, so he's totally innocent you see, it's just the millenial frame job causing problems for a good hard charging Troop. What's the issue?

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

ActusRhesus posted:

Though is it really a bad thing the prosecution thinks the defendant is guilty? That’s kind of a given or the charges would have been dropped.

But if they drop the charges their score goes down!

ActusRhesus
Sep 18, 2007

"Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Vox Nihili posted:

But if they drop the charges their score goes down!

We drop charges all the time.

As for Gallagher case...

The prosecution hosed up. Claiming the military is covering up/failing to hold accountable is simply not accurate. The trial team put on a poo poo case. When you put on a poo poo case, and have the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt, you lose.

I wouldn’t be shocked if he were guilty as gently caress. But the JAG Corps is loving incompetent.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Juul's wrath descends upon some hapless citizen-peasant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/c8pnn4/i_was_served_by_juul/

I love the comments and responses here. Get a lawyer! If you can't afford a lawyer hop in a car and drive to Virginia! Time to take out a few payday loans! Hope you don't lose your lovely job!

Unamuno
May 31, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Vox Nihili posted:

Juul's wrath descends upon some hapless citizen-peasant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/c8pnn4/i_was_served_by_juul/

I love the comments and responses here. Get a lawyer! If you can't afford a lawyer hop in a car and drive to Virginia! Time to take out a few payday loans! Hope you don't lose your lovely job!

Wow, time to boycot juul over this outrage.

sike *takes massive hit off co-worker's juul to get the stimulant kick required to get legal work done, as well as a 45-second break from the all-consuming depression*

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
If you haven't yet, go read this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M3Y6vj3QlQpSdlYcCdq3BkbnnWIrEPlf/view

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 12 hours!
That's a thing of beauty, that is.

gret
Dec 12, 2005

goggle-eyed freak



Inject that poo poo straight into my veins.

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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
I can't decide whether I like the Zuckerberg analogy or telling the government lawyer to gently caress off about tomorrow being a holiday and get his poo poo together by Friday at 2 better.

I mean, I feel for the careerist guy a bit. He was caught off guard as much as anyone. But still loving :lol: at the whole thing.

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